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[iFixit] Here’s Why Controller Joysticks Drift (and Why They’ll Only Get Worse)
- Thread starter SinCityAssassin
- Start date
I feel like folks are going to be disappointed in how Sony might respond to this. I might be wrong but the easiest (and cheapest) fix is not to improve the hardware, but to increase the deadzone.
With no deadzone, almost all controllers drift out of the box, but by default every game features a deadzone ranging between 2 and 10% of the initial stick movement.
If I load up Apex Legends, open up ALC and set the response curve to linear then any brand new controller will see the cursor moving about on its own.
Anyway, an increased default deadzone would fix most of the issues, it would be a low cost fix but it would come at the cost of the responsiveness of the controls. So I imagine that's the 'fix' we're more likely to see occur, sooner than having all controller manufacturers change how their pads are built.
With no deadzone, almost all controllers drift out of the box, but by default every game features a deadzone ranging between 2 and 10% of the initial stick movement.
If I load up Apex Legends, open up ALC and set the response curve to linear then any brand new controller will see the cursor moving about on its own.
Anyway, an increased default deadzone would fix most of the issues, it would be a low cost fix but it would come at the cost of the responsiveness of the controls. So I imagine that's the 'fix' we're more likely to see occur, sooner than having all controller manufacturers change how their pads are built.
I've only experienced stick drift in the original Xbox controller, PS2 Dual Shock and playing my friends Switch. Other issues, stick peeling off on DS2, DS3 and stick clicking down not registering on a 360 controller.
Anyway, pretty bad quality asset they are using in all controllers, why it fails for some and not others, no idea but I think we should expect much better longevity of controllers that shouldn't be throwaway items after a short time. It's not right, costly and wasteful when everything else works.
Anyway, pretty bad quality asset they are using in all controllers, why it fails for some and not others, no idea but I think we should expect much better longevity of controllers that shouldn't be throwaway items after a short time. It's not right, costly and wasteful when everything else works.
The worst part of the whole thing is that $180 Elite is using same damn parts which will fail in the same way. Super meh.
Overall, this is pathetic from all the corps. They could have made the controllers to say enable easy replacement of the affected part, instead controllers get tossed.
I guess that's a win for the corps since they get to sell even more accessories to users. Meh.
Overall, this is pathetic from all the corps. They could have made the controllers to say enable easy replacement of the affected part, instead controllers get tossed.
I guess that's a win for the corps since they get to sell even more accessories to users. Meh.
They take a bath on the console but make it all back after the first one or two accessories they sell to you.
I think iFixit is important and they do a good job, but their narrative is a bit one-sided (not saying this in a negative way, it's just they focus on a specific aspect - as they should) and are almost always critical. They give low scores to almost every major device and company out there, from Apple to Microsoft.
Now, that's not saying they are wrong or anything, just that it's their "job" to notice these things and make noise about them, because that's how they make money. Again, in no way am I saying they are being untruthful - just that companies will always look at profit margins and user generated data while businesses like iFixit will point out these things and make a fuss about them. Big companies will come out with slogans such as "for the users" while groups like iFixit will come out with slogans such as "for the consumers".
On one hand, we want to have the cheapest consoles we can, on the other we want them built with custom components, high-end materials, amazing performance, etc. Now, in this case, the part in question is cheap, but maybe investing in new manufacturing tools required for a better solution - isn't. I don't know. And I shouldn't need to know: as a consumer, I want the products I buy to be reliable.
So, I guess - I'll wait for data and I hope someone gathers it and then we'll know. Tech forums tend to attract people with issues and focus on anecdotal evidence, YouTubers live from negative coverage and companies get away with a lot.
Why am I saying this? Because if you're an owner of an expensive gadget, posts like these may make you paranoid. I remember going through 200+ pages on an Apple forum about how "iPad Pros are built bad and they will surely bend" with people quoting structural engineers and bend tests and, of course, YouTube exploding with videos where people like Jerryrigeverything make bombastic click-bait titles about it. For months I was almost scared to use my iPad, until I decided I will just use it normally and if it bends, it bends. It never did. Neither did my friends' iPads. Of course, some people had issues and it could've been the other way around - maybe Apple did make a mistake - I'm not telling anyone to trust companies. But I'm telling you not to go full paranoia-mode because of forums, iFixits and YouTubers either.
Now, that's not saying they are wrong or anything, just that it's their "job" to notice these things and make noise about them, because that's how they make money. Again, in no way am I saying they are being untruthful - just that companies will always look at profit margins and user generated data while businesses like iFixit will point out these things and make a fuss about them. Big companies will come out with slogans such as "for the users" while groups like iFixit will come out with slogans such as "for the consumers".
On one hand, we want to have the cheapest consoles we can, on the other we want them built with custom components, high-end materials, amazing performance, etc. Now, in this case, the part in question is cheap, but maybe investing in new manufacturing tools required for a better solution - isn't. I don't know. And I shouldn't need to know: as a consumer, I want the products I buy to be reliable.
So, I guess - I'll wait for data and I hope someone gathers it and then we'll know. Tech forums tend to attract people with issues and focus on anecdotal evidence, YouTubers live from negative coverage and companies get away with a lot.
Why am I saying this? Because if you're an owner of an expensive gadget, posts like these may make you paranoid. I remember going through 200+ pages on an Apple forum about how "iPad Pros are built bad and they will surely bend" with people quoting structural engineers and bend tests and, of course, YouTube exploding with videos where people like Jerryrigeverything make bombastic click-bait titles about it. For months I was almost scared to use my iPad, until I decided I will just use it normally and if it bends, it bends. It never did. Neither did my friends' iPads. Of course, some people had issues and it could've been the other way around - maybe Apple did make a mistake - I'm not telling anyone to trust companies. But I'm telling you not to go full paranoia-mode because of forums, iFixits and YouTubers either.
its the same as all controllers. It isn't a particular or specific issue to the DualSense
Just out of curiousity, are there any examples for this? As someone else mentioned earlier in the thread, the part for the joystick is apparently used by both Microsoft and Nintendo as well. One can argue that all goes for cheaper parts in this case though, and its fair enough if thats what you mean (and only mention Sony in specific because thats what the article is about) :) But i'm just curious if Sony is much different in this department compared to their closest competitors. I havnt really checked too much into it, so i'm wondering about it :) Personally, i've had good experience with the Sony products that i have owned. (The biggest issue i've had is probably YLOD on my old PS3 60GB model after a few years of usage, although i'm not sure if thas was due to cheap parts since everything can technically break. My PS4's fans have also been pretty loud in some games after a while as well, that might be due to bad thermal paste/parts. I read something that some PS4 uses fans with less blades on them, which is probably cheaper to buy).
And yeah, i hope that they improve upon this issue in future hardware revisions as you mention, i agree for sure. I'm curious if anything will happen though because controller drifiting didnt seem to be a widespread issue on PS4 and Xbox One, at least thats my impression, and if PS5 and the Xbox Series X|S controllers uses the same part, maybe drifting wont be a widespread issue now either.
EDIT: I added some text.
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$99 wouldn't get you a controller built out of aluminium and glass, but if Apple gets into this game they will gladly sell you one of these for $249.99.
Is there a good alternativt component to the Alps joystick fitted in these controllers with the same package and size or is it a matter of replacing the part with a new one and hoping it lasts longer? If I get drift on a controller I'd prefer to replace the component with a higher quality alternative.
They should really make the whole sticks user replaceable, including potentiometers, springs and pushdown switch. Controllers are just too expensive as is.
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Yeah, I get that, but I've seen far too many complaints about the Dual Sense on this forum/Reddit than the Xbox controller. I'm hesitant to spend that much on a controller that has been developing drift in a matter of months for a lot of people.
None of my three DS4s have this, heavy use and all. BUT they aren't launch versions, and it's known that the quality of first batch DS4s was pathetic to say the least. Maybe it'll be the same this time and Sony will improve the overall quality of the DualSense with revisions. In fact they should do it asap and replace every defective launch DualSense with a new version unit, free of charge.
Anyone know what the GameCube controller used? Till this day it's my favourite stick with the perfect resistance and springiness. Also never came across one that drifted, unless it was a insane Melee player, which should help explain that problem...
The Gamecube controller used essentially the same type of analog stick module as is used today. I believe the console recalibrated the joysticks' neutral position every time a controller was plugged in which helped adjust for inevitable stick degradation.
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This is weird because the N64 is the only console I've ever owned with loose sticks (which is probably tangential to the problem of drift).
If these failures are related to wear and tear, dust and dirt, then changing how you treat them should help prolong their life.
That's very well possible. I do what I can to keep my controllers clean and I've only ever had a single joycon with drift over the last few generations.
Who will be the first console maker to no longer cheap out on their controller? Only time will tell.
Xbox and Sony use same hardware for thumbsticks [parts are interchangeable, only the top plastics that our fingers are touching are different], all are affected the same.
Then you're clearly not looking. This is widespread among all consoles controllers. Go to the Xbox reddit and you'll see a lot of complains. It's bad everywhere.
Yep, same. My launch joycon is the only controller I've ever had an issue with.
Apart from an NES controller that may have been thrown across a concrete basement floor.
Get ready for $100 controllers, but then even the Elite uses these, so who knows lol.
That's probably Mario Party's fault. Mario Party killed a N64 controller on me
Every joystick I've ever used has some amount of drift eventually, including 360, so this isn't surprising to me. It just depends on how much NHL/Smash Bros I play on it as to how fast it develops. Usually I can lightly suggest the original position by flicking it a bit to restore its function
This is interesting.
The RocketScience video analyzing input lag and stick performance the other day made it sound like Series X gamepad sticks (or Elite controller's for that matter) were esentially a dumpster fire when it came to (lack of) precision and gigantic deadzones, but those very same gigantic deadzones may be the reason why joystick drift is less reported in Xbox controllers than in Sony's when both are using the same basic joystick components.
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Yup, using linear in the training ground on apex is how I test for drift, I think you're right on the fix but as someone who keeps their deadzone to the very minimum I'd say let it be. Lol
Could Dualsense be fixed similarly to Joycon drift? =P
www.nintendoenthusiast.com
Joy-Con drifting fixed using a Valve Steam Controller
One Nintendo Switch player has fixed their Joy-Con drifting by making use of the parts found in a Valve Steam Controller and combinint the two.
www.nintendoenthusiast.com
For anyone with the new Xbox consoles, I really suggest you go for the extended warranty offered by Microsoft. Considering this sounds like a widespread issue they offer 2 controller replacements for around $50 + extends your warranty too. I mainly got it after hearing a lot of DS4s were drifting and several of my joycons drifted quite a lot too.
Nintendo is still fixing controllers for free, I believe and idk about Sony's solution right now.
Nintendo is still fixing controllers for free, I believe and idk about Sony's solution right now.
i think this has only gotten such a big deal since a) more people play competitive online then ever before.
b) controllers cost a fuckton more then 10 years ago.
in the 00s yopu payed 25-40 for a new controller.
A new dual shock 4 on amazon costs 55€
Dualsese is 65€
wiimote where i think 40, and the nunchucks 20.
So if the stick was drifting: buy a new nunchuck for 20$
A single joy con costs 40, and both have sticks that start to drift really fast.
Pro controller? 70 by nintendo, usually can be found 55-65-
GC? i think it was around 35...
i had controllers that started to drift after some years (N64, GC, PS1), but those where so cheap that it was okay for me in a way.
b) controllers cost a fuckton more then 10 years ago.
in the 00s yopu payed 25-40 for a new controller.
A new dual shock 4 on amazon costs 55€
Dualsese is 65€
wiimote where i think 40, and the nunchucks 20.
So if the stick was drifting: buy a new nunchuck for 20$
A single joy con costs 40, and both have sticks that start to drift really fast.
Pro controller? 70 by nintendo, usually can be found 55-65-
GC? i think it was around 35...
i had controllers that started to drift after some years (N64, GC, PS1), but those where so cheap that it was okay for me in a way.
With PS5 for example you can see how they didn't add that gop to avoid coil whine vs the Series X, and how some PS5 uses the (I guess) cheaper Nidec fans that are noisy.
PS4s was also way noisier than One's as you say. I dunno but I feel that Sony does tend to go cheaper in parts. Of course it also shows in the price (PS4 being cheaper than One and PS5 Digital being also cheaper than X).
Not to be insensitive but if you own you had 4 and they all experienced this with some only after a couple weeks, could it possible be a user problem?
I owned 5 myself and never had this issue. My son owned 3 and had it on 2. I can tell you the way we cared for our controllers where far different. Example I never ate snacks while I game and also make sure my hands are clean, never leave them on the floor, and wipe them down anytime I see any kind of build up.
My son eats all kinds of crap when he games , leaves them on the floor , and knocks it over or drops them all the time.
I also not implying it cant happen to careful users but 4 for 4 seems like really shitty luck at the least.
Personally excusing this behavior is a bit weird.
As someone that tries to it actively harm the climate by not buying useless stuff, it is maddening that I have to buy a new controller every few years instead of just the parts that break down.
Same shit for internal batteries. I avoid controllers with internal batteries because they become almost wired after a few years.
Imo the console( and some pc accessories) stuff is super disappointing, specially from a green atitude standpoint, because you need to re buy a lot instead of Re using it.
I don't see how these billion dollars companies can't be held to a standard that at the very least allows for less waste to be generated.
It is not like these companies are in dire straits and need AL the profit they can get
And you think they gonna fix this in the next iterations of DS? NO WAY! You are just dreaming even if the lawsuit prevails.
This would put early owners into huge disadvantage and if anything, Sony neevr fixed the bad quality build and the issues of the DS4 in V2. Actually it got even worse.
This would put early owners into huge disadvantage and if anything, Sony neevr fixed the bad quality build and the issues of the DS4 in V2. Actually it got even worse.
No way it's a user problem. It happened to me multiple times and all my DS4 drift controllers look new.
Bad luck I guess. I have used the 5 I personally owned a lot with zero issues other then my launch ones that had the rubber peel off.
They should start making them swappable so people don't have to deal with this headache.
Seconding this. God I miss PS2 controllers. What were they 20 or 25 dollars? Not a lot of bullshit, they just worked and felt so good.
This applies to basically any analog stick. They're all roughly the same.
I'm sure the reason why they've made them so difficult to replace is because they're more durable when soldered in... oh, and because people will buy brand new controllers when they wear out.
If you think Logitech is bad try Razer. I've purchased two of their mice and they both went bad within a year. My 3 year old Logitech is still mostly fine other than the scroll wheel being lose.