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If Zelda were playable in a mainline TLoZ title, would you want her to be have sword+shield (or other such weapons) as an option?
- Thread starter Spring-Loaded
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You've touched on something here - obviously in BOTW2 - if Zelda is playable, its the same Zelda we know -- but if they ever give her her own game, I hope she doesn't start the game as royalty. I guess with BOTW Zelda it could work, as the Kingdom is kind of in ruin, but I don't see much appeal in starting a game in the plushy halls of Hyrule Castle. Part of the appeal in these games is definitely that although you bear the name and the green garb - every Link is unique and starts his adventure having the responsibility thrust upon his otherwise small and peaceful existence. Its the young kid (or young adult in some games) venturing in to caves and dungeons and danger because he must, and levelling up to a legendary hero by the end. If you start the game from a position of privilege and inherited magical power, importance and destiny, I don't think it's going to feel the same.
Basically what I'm saying is: I'd rather they do a Tetra or a Linkle. Or give us a new character entirely.
It depends on if Link were also playable. If he was, then Zelda doesn't need to use the same weapons because that would be kind of redundant. But if Zelda were the sole playable character, I'd like her to use a sword.
Sword and shield should be an option but not the main, she should be familiar with it but opt for something else and not rely on it. My opinion is still that she should be a master of all including hand to hand and magic. I want to see Zelda suplex Ganon through a castle wall. Zelda herself should be the weapon and anything else is a tool for her. I'm sure some people think that is silly but I also remind that Sheik is doing all sorts of close quarter combat moves in Smash Bros. Link has a few kicks in the game too but his bread and butter doesn't include booting heavies right off the stage with kicks like this
All of this sounds way over the top for Zelda (the game). Zelda isn't Musou or a character action game. Link isn't Dante so there's no need to turn Zelda into Bayonetta. Suplexes and flying in Zelda? No thank you.
Personally, I find melee combat quite boring in general. I always pick a ranged class or magic in every game that lets me, that's why this kind of play style in Zelda sounds very appealing to me. Wisdom and magic are also somewhat linked, Zelda is educated royalty and wisdom is her part of the triforce, it suits her. Give her a rapier as an elegant option for close combat and I'm happy.
Rapier and Bow of Light from TP combined with some magic powers like shielding would be perfect.
see you are person of great wisdomSword and shield should be an option but not the main, she should be familiar with it but opt for something else and not rely on it. My opinion is still that she should be a master of all including hand to hand and magic. I want to see Zelda suplex Ganon through a castle wall. Zelda herself should be the weapon and anything else is a tool for her. I'm sure some people think that is silly but I also remind that Sheik is doing all sorts of close quarter combat moves in Smash Bros. Link has a few kicks in the game too but his bread and butter doesn't include booting heavies right off the stage with kicks like this
Ultimately I see link as the simple swordsman who adapts a variety of gadgets and relics that enable him to courageously overcome challenges. I see Zelda to be more of a wise, studied warrior who would know many forms, techniques and continue to learn new ones. While she can still use relics I imagine she would find different ways to use them. Take for instance the bow, Zelda can take a bow and fire light arrows from it. I see no reason why Zelda can't take the Mirror Shield and fire her own beam of light off it. How useful would this be? That depends on the developers' imagination. What about a ray of light and a shiny reflective boomerang? She can probably do more than just light with magic too. She taught Link various songs in Ocarina and she already has plenty of tricks as disguised as Sheik. She has so much and it is time to bring it all together and also remind people that this is all her, you don't need to mask the princess for her to start her rushdown and ass kicking.
If Link gets relics and powers from different regions of Hyrule I think Zelda too should have studied various forms and techniques from each culture that she blends into an expansive kit.
make new a option in the poll
vote Fist and Magic! 2021
Honestly I kinda want both. I want a mainline game where you have the option to swap Link for Zelda who has the traditional Link equipment. I also want a mainline game where Zelda is a unique playable character with her own unique skills and progression through the world.
Ironically, the only canon playable Zelda uses Sword and Shield (Spirit Tracks).
I actually just trust whatever they'll do. For all we know she could even shoot magical swords with her bow of light. In the case of BotW Zelda she could use guardians or other Sheikah teach to her advantage, though, since she had shown interest in the technology. It would be weird if they ditched that aspect of her character completely.
We also have to consider that Link will now have his gameplay centered around the magic hand... so that leaves room for Zelda to get some of his gameplay from the original botw.
I actually just trust whatever they'll do. For all we know she could even shoot magical swords with her bow of light. In the case of BotW Zelda she could use guardians or other Sheikah teach to her advantage, though, since she had shown interest in the technology. It would be weird if they ditched that aspect of her character completely.
We also have to consider that Link will now have his gameplay centered around the magic hand... so that leaves room for Zelda to get some of his gameplay from the original botw.
To be honest, I don't wanna see Sheik or a Sheik game. It was a disguise Zelda used once and didn't do anything in. Smash Bros and Hyrule Warriors had to give him a moveset. I'd prefer Zelda to be Zelda and not disguise herself as a guy just to be able to fight.
Having a playable Zelda only for her to be a female Link would be such a lazy and boring solution.
Give her an entirely unique weapon, moveset and/or combat style.
Give her an entirely unique weapon, moveset and/or combat style.
If it's a mainline title, I'd still want the move set to be very similar to a mainline 3D Zelda title though. Playable Zelda would be awesome, but I'd still want the style to have some element of sword & board to it from which it can branch out to make it unique to her powers.
I meant to raise this last night, but a major element to this question is whether this is a game where Zelda is the sole protagonist or not. As well as how the game overall is structured. If it is dual protagonist is it AI companion with free swap in swap out between Link and Zelda or is it a situation where you play each character individually in specific sections(like a SS parallel journey) or is it a situation where you pick one at the start and that's who you play as.
For me if Zelda is the sole protagonist than that's a situation I feel if it's meant to be a mainline LoZ game that it's more important that she encompass more of Link's skill set. If it's any of the other situations though there's a much greater need to differentiate the two between one another. Though for a swap in/swap out game say if its BotW 2 both would have to share a core skillset, but you'd still want to have them have some significant differences since players will be comparing them to one another side by side in real time. While the other scenarios would allow for a bit more differentiation, especially a parallel story would likely want to highlight those differences the most.
Personally I want the first mainline game Zelda is playable in to be one where she is the sole playable character. It will be a major milestone for the series and character and it would be nice for her to be given the full spotlight and attention rather than having to compete with Link directly. I'd like to see them both together in the future in various forms like above, but just for this first instance a solo story for her would be my ideal.
Personally would hate this. Link and Zelda are the two major figures of the franchise so leverage them both. Creating some new female character to take on the role of the female player character option would just feel really bizarre to me and rife with problematic elements, especially if that's because Zelda as a Princess is somehow a disqualifier. I'm fine with difference origins SS Zelda isn't exactly a princess, initially Tetra is just a girl, there's plenty of ways to play with her status within the world depending on the story, but I also have no issue with and would love to see a story where Princess Zelda, leader of her country, left to no other option takes up the sword to protect her people and rid the land of evil.
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Why did you say no to "swords as an option" if you would be ok with her sword moveset being different from Link's?
Sword and shield should be an option but not the main, she should be familiar with it but opt for something else and not rely on it. My opinion is still that she should be a master of all including hand to hand and magic. I want to see Zelda suplex Ganon through a castle wall. Zelda herself should be the weapon and anything else is a tool for her. I'm sure some people think that is silly but I also remind that Sheik is doing all sorts of close quarter combat moves in Smash Bros. Link has a few kicks in the game too but his bread and butter doesn't include booting heavies right off the stage with kicks like this
Ultimately I see link as the simple swordsman who adapts a variety of gadgets and relics that enable him to courageously overcome challenges. I see Zelda to be more of a wise, studied warrior who would know many forms, techniques and continue to learn new ones. While she can still use relics I imagine she would find different ways to use them. Take for instance the bow, Zelda can take a bow and fire light arrows from it. I see no reason why Zelda can't take the Mirror Shield and fire her own beam of light off it. How useful would this be? That depends on the developers' imagination. What about a ray of light and a shiny reflective boomerang? She can probably do more than just light with magic too. She taught Link various songs in Ocarina and she already has plenty of tricks as disguised as Sheik. She has so much and it is time to bring it all together and also remind people that this is all her, you don't need to mask the princess for her to start her rushdown and ass kicking.
If Link gets relics and powers from different regions of Hyrule I think Zelda too should have studied various forms and techniques from each culture that she blends into an expansive kit.
All of these would be welcome options no matter what in future titles (unarmed combat, throws, magic tools). We've already had brief instances of each—the goron/goat wrestling in Twilight Princess foreshadowing the Ganon suplexing near the end, myriad magic/elemental modifiers for weapons and tools—so all that should be expanded on moving forward.
If Link and Zelda are playable, the principle that they each can use everything in the game, but have unique approaches to them all seems spot on, and helps make each of them stand on their own without arbitrarily locking them out of certain approaches entirely.
Magic fighter—if it existed in a game w/playable Zelda—would theoretically be available in either poll option.
The poll question isn't "Should zelda use sword OR use magic." It's asking whether melee weapons should be an option for Zelda in addition to whatever else she has.
To let her interact with the game world without arbitrarily locking her out of any viable options. Another point would be to further establish her character through how she uses these weapons differently from Link.
What's the point of outright preventing her from using melee weapons and limiting her to magic? No one's ever argued that Link shouldn't use bows or magic
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Aonuma's response to the notion of playable Zelda being "but what would Link do?" seems to be a widespread sentiment.
It kind of smacks of this:
where someone balks at the female character using a particular weapon/method despite them having proven they're more than capable
It's honestly only about the gameplay for me, I want her to play differently. She can wield an axe or spear or halberd or rapier, idc. If she has a sword, I want it to play like in that Hyrule Warriors gif, where she does sick magic AoE attacks. We've been swinging around swords as link for the last 35 years.
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pretend you're the designer then, just for the sake of discussion—would you want Zelda to have the option of melee weapons
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Hold up, I think we're just picturing things differently. I'd also say people thinking magic being a bit of a stray from Zelda is imagining magic in ways that don't fit the universe. Though I admit, giving Zelda flight is pushing it, but then again Link climbing everything and gliding across the map is new. BoTW already pushes towards action games more than many of the other main line predecessors with the perfect parry laser deflection and perfect dodge bullet time slow down allowing you to do a lot of damage raplacing the more traditional "hit weak spot to create an opening" gameplay loop.
I think you let my silly tone hyping Zelda throwing suplexes and stuff lead you to imagine some wild furious Zelda game (which I'm having fun with in my own imagination right now so thanks). Having Zelda show off some moves by throwing some oversized beast through a wall, magic or otherwise isn't as far from Link charging his sword to cause an aoe with a single jumping attack. It isn't even that much of stretch when lined up with things like Din's Fire or Urbosa's Thunder, Comparing it to Musou and Bayonetta just because I suggested some flair is entertaining because it is far from what I imagined. See, I was thinking of mostly a lower level fight system of basic attacks such as Link's typical three slash, maybe a jumping attack and what not. Literally not even as deep as Twilight Princess Hidden Tecniques stuff. What I imagined was a few select actions based on different equipment much like how Link has different slashes for 2H, 1H sword and spears. I didn't say I want crazy air combo or anything like that. BoTW also already has dodge slowdown which is about as complex as I'd like them to take it and would have preferred combat without it. I also wouldn't mind going without perfect parries for deflecting devastating lasers too.
The thread is grounded in "mainline Zelda" which to me means not straying too far in terms of combat with "use a selection of weapons/tools/powers for regular enemies. Hit weakspots on bosses until they give you a window, unleash rapidly damaging attacks." Stuff like flight would not be too far from things like wildly swinging around the arena with a hook shot, just with a different flavour. And it was mostly mentioned outside of combat which, lets be honest... Link rides a flying bird in Skyward Sword. Link gets the glider. Gets teleporting tablet. Talking Sail Boat. Time travel. Wolf form. Gets other cool shit with masks. Get ability to swim up waterfalls from clothing. But Zelda with a bit of air time is too much? Yeah, I disagree. I think you're thinking too much about these things in other games and not how these things might be adapted and be awesome in a Zelda game.
But now that you've mentioned Zelda in a character action game. I'll be frank and say I don't know what to expect with a action game like that from Nintendo but I'd give a shot for sure.
Wait I also just remembered. Link has a motorcycle in BoTW DLC. Yeeeah... Zelda can get some mech wings or some thing. Fuck it, give her a flying Unicorn or a Charizard, I don't even care. Link got a motorcycle so Zelda should get whatever pony she wants. Fuel, magic, stamina, doesn't matter what the drawbacks are that is about balance and game design not about what we want.
Yes! You get it. The gameplay loops and objectives mostly remain the same. How they react, utilize tools/abilities and interact with the environment should be what sets them apart rather than going for he does this and she does that. Though, to be fair, I'd prefer Zelda to just take the stage rather than share it in the game but mechanically they should share a lot of similarities. There should be a lot of "Yup, this is familiar, this is a Zelda game" mixed with some "Wow, Zelda can do this? Awesome".
Are you going to complain when the next Link wields a sword? Why now, with a hypothetical discussion about playable Zelda?
The next Link will have all of his BotW options and I will continue to play with big-ass pole-arms. We finally have options after all of these years. But ok, I get it, you want to make this into some sort of gotcha, alright: I'd be fine with a sword wielding Zelda. I'd just prefer other melee options, especially after we finally got some variety.
My 2 cents.
First - Think about the gameplay component if she has to be Link's Partner or Solo segments. Nintendo always go with this mentality.
Second - We already have Link with "power hand" from the teaser. (BotW2)
Thinking with AoC as the main reference, chances are that Zelda will use he Sheikah Slate and Bows in Botw2.
Outside BotW2 we need to think about the roles in a gameplay way. Zelda Being with same movesets as Link won't happen if both are playable or if Zelda is a "Zelda" aka Has the power of Hylia.
First - Think about the gameplay component if she has to be Link's Partner or Solo segments. Nintendo always go with this mentality.
Second - We already have Link with "power hand" from the teaser. (BotW2)
Thinking with AoC as the main reference, chances are that Zelda will use he Sheikah Slate and Bows in Botw2.
Outside BotW2 we need to think about the roles in a gameplay way. Zelda Being with same movesets as Link won't happen if both are playable or if Zelda is a "Zelda" aka Has the power of Hylia.
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Zelda would almost certainly use weapons swords differently from Link. If she has a completely different fighting style even when using the same weapons (and not being limited to just melee weapons), would that type of variety be palatable to you?
She has to have magic, but if you want her to play raiper/shield + magic or bow/arrow + magic im fine with both.
Yes, 100%. I'd just hate her to be a reskin of Link after all those years. Both Link and Zelda are (for better or worse in case of Link) characters and not just empty avatars and treating Zelda like a mere gender option for the main character feels wrong somehow. Again, not opposed to have Zelda hit hard in melee, just differentiate the two somehow. This is easier done with different kit but could, of course, also work with a sword.
I see no issue in Zelda picking up a sword. Zelda with the Rapier was my favorite playstyle in Hyrule Warriors, so that definitely gets a vote from me.
As for how she'd play, I'd probably not give her a shield, but in exchange she gets a teleport dodge. Link courageously stands against the incoming blow with his mighty shield. Zelda wisely gets out of the way.
I would love to see her have a well-practiced meticulous fighting style where no movement is wasted, compared to Link's brawler with pointy things style. But if she's the only playable character in a game, she probably needs a few more generic protagonist skills than if she was playable along Link and needed to contrast him in some way.
As for how she'd play, I'd probably not give her a shield, but in exchange she gets a teleport dodge. Link courageously stands against the incoming blow with his mighty shield. Zelda wisely gets out of the way.
I would love to see her have a well-practiced meticulous fighting style where no movement is wasted, compared to Link's brawler with pointy things style. But if she's the only playable character in a game, she probably needs a few more generic protagonist skills than if she was playable along Link and needed to contrast him in some way.
Because I initially read the poll as an either/or situation. Either she's exactly like Link in BotW maybe with new ruin abilities, or she's a wholly unique character.
I only said no to her using swords only if she was just a Link pallet swap. I would hope Nintendo would give her her own moveset first before thinking they should just model swap Link out for Zelda and call it a day. But if they did do that, I'd be disappointed at Nintendo's lack of imagination. Zelda should me more than just a clone, she has more than enough history to be as unique as a character as Link is. Snormy brings up some great points with allowing her to be Shiek and have an extensive CQC abilities.
Thinking back on the combat on BotW, it's kind of disappointing how the weapons are. They all fall into a few categories, which handle the same between them, if it wasn't for the physics engine, I'd argue the combat would be worse than most other Zelda games. It's thanks to the physics engine that helps elevate the combat for me, but if I'm just wacking away at an enemy I get bored quickly.
That's pretty much what my original post was conveying. If she had a swords and two-handed weapons and all that but her playstyle was different, I'm all for it. I'm not expecting her to play drastically different, but it would come as a nice surprise.
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I think rapier, bow and magic would be a really good and unique moveset. Basically expand her moveset from Hyrule Warriors and Cadence of Hyrule to include elemental magic other than light magic. It would be particularly fantastic with BotW's engine and elemental interactions.
OK, I guess my imagination went too wild while reading your description, haha. I understand what you meant better now. I never played BOTW's DLC and I'm not a fan of the idea of a motorcycle in Zelda anyway. I'd prefer it to stay mostly "grounded".
I think there is a lot of potential in basing Zelda's moveset on magic to differentiate her play style from Link's. She could fire magical arrows that use mana, whereas Link has to find regular arrows. The dodge slowdown
Thinking about it now, I guess a more melee focused Zelda could be cool, if only so we could get a montage of Impa training her. Although personally, I just love magic and Zelda being playable opens the door to more magic gameplay in Zelda, so I'm a bit biased in that direction.
Link himself can cast spells in more games that he can't: Zelda 2 NES, ALttP, OoT, MM, Wind Waker, etc. If anything BotW is an outlier, and even there Zelda can cast spells.
No, make her more distinct from Link. Give me more political intrigue and nation running. Let her play as a VN or City Builder trying to manage her city and grow their defenses, or get the zoras and gorons to join her cause.
I'd want her to use light magic and bow and arrow, but a transformation that lets her play as Shiek in which she uses a dagger for close range combat. She has weak defense but is pretty fast and decent close combat offense but great ranged capabilities, better than link.
This way she's really more different than link. Link excels at close combat and has well-rounded all abilities, uses elemental magic.
If ganon was a PC, he would be slow but hit hard and had high defense but uses black magic of course.
Do it cowards. DO IT
This way she's really more different than link. Link excels at close combat and has well-rounded all abilities, uses elemental magic.
If ganon was a PC, he would be slow but hit hard and had high defense but uses black magic of course.
Do it cowards. DO IT
In a game like BOTW they should let you choose between Link and Zelda and have them play the same, its crazy not getting to choose gender in an open world RPG these days. They could do something interesting like in mount and blade warband where the game is harder as a woman because NPCs are misogynistic.
I would say, that a Zelda game, where she is the lead would play completely different. Zelda is the embodiment of "Wisdom", she doesn't go around and beat people with swords (if she isn't forced or it is a spin-off). She is a leader, tactician, diplomat and cleric. That why i am also against having Link and Zelda simply swap rolls in a normal Zelda game. Linkle or another form of a female Link is fine by me (Link doesn't need to be male).
Yeah, I'm not disqualifying magic at all and it definitely should be part of her kit. But the way I see it, it can be handled as some ability in the same way Link had those tablet powers. Link still has the ability to hit things with a stick so I figure Zelda can have some really cool magic and also know how to handle herself with a variety of weapons and combat. She can also have her own take on Link's gadgets such as the hook shot, slingshot and boomerangs.
Just let her change her clothes like Link does and maintain her full set of skills. This isn't even like Link getting a Zora or Goron form in Majora, they are literally the same person :\
She should be able to do everything Link can, whether that's using spears, swords, whatever.
That would be doooope. (Who's the artist?)I would love to have scene where Zelda picks up the Master Sword to actual wield it for the first time. How would that not be awesome?
If you want to give her some Witcher like magic powers to use as well on top of it, that's cool too.
Why not both?
People have already theorised wild magical abilities for Link in BOTW2 based off a few seconds of footage that would simple fit on top of his existing arsenal.
I don't see why a playable Zelda couldn't also have both or give players a choice in how to play.
People have already theorised wild magical abilities for Link in BOTW2 based off a few seconds of footage that would simple fit on top of his existing arsenal.
I don't see why a playable Zelda couldn't also have both or give players a choice in how to play.
Shoot, sorry. I scanned all over to make sure I didn't miss the signature, and it was literally right there lol. Thank you.
It seems wild to me how many people here think Zelda shouldn't have a sword. BOTW let Link use everything - I remember the first time I picked up the Old Man's axe on the GP, and saw Link struggle with it. But the game doesn't limit you - you make the choice about how Link is going to fight. My ideal is that Zelda is a free swap with Link, with plot areas where it would only make sense for her to travel into. In BOTW, her biggest anxiety is feeling helpless and dependent on others, where in fact she seems not allowed to use her strength. BOTW showed us that Zelda is not just someone who wants/needs to be rescued, and I'd love to play as her with whatever weapon I choose.
