But let's be real my argument isn't the main reason people hate this movie. The tone and the camp just was not what people wanted. That's why people hated this. Batman Forever was really more the line of camp Batman that people were willing to tolerate and this one pushed way past what people wanted. And I think the camp in BF was misinterpreted. One Jim Carrey was there and people loved him. But I don't think people loved the camp they tolerated it and Schumacher and WB took that as let's go harder in that direction.
Funny thing is…I think Batman Forever is more boring than B&R mostly cause B&R certainly has a over the top absurdity did they really do this thing to it. Granted I LOVED Batman Returns so I was salty at the tone change in 1995.
i agree with you here. batman forever is tonally worst of all worlds IMO, despite some good performances. and returns is still probably my favourite batman movie overall — i guess there's something to be said for taking the ridiculous-but-underplayed tone of one movie and running with it for the sequel
i agree with you here. batman forever is tonally worst of all worlds IMO, despite some good performances. and returns is still probably my favourite batman movie overall — i guess there's something to be said for taking the ridiculous-but-underplayed tone of one movie and running with it for the sequel
OP, no. It's okay to like bad movies. I love bad movies.
Batman & Robin is bad. I love watching it.
Joel himself apologized for the movie. George Clooney said he has a picture of himself in the Batsuit on his desk to remind him daily of what happens when you take a role just for the money so that he never makes that mistake again.
The director and lead both agree the movie they made is bad. It's okay to like bad movies.
People who still try and insist Batman and Robin is some sin against cinema 25 years later are just...weird, and a little sad. Since then we've had worse DC movies and worse Batman movies specifically. Let it go, the film's fine. If anything the last decade of Batman movies which are a little ashamed of being Batman movies makes Schumacher's gonzo approach more appealing by contrast.
And that's without considering how so much of the backlash came from insecure teenage boy/man-children who hated that Schuamacher made Batman a little gay. Or rather, embraced the homoerotic nature of the character which has always been there.
Before computers got cheap, movies had to use physical effects. Filmmakers had to think about how their movies would look before filming was over. Completely changing the aesthetic with a new green-screen background was not possible. Do-overs were known as re-shoots, and people physically built...
seglegs.racing
I will say
the second half is weaker than the first (think of that incredible opening with the rocket jump and the hockey team from hell)
but it's still a 9/10 fantastic flick.
Starting with the visuals and going all the way down, Batman & Robin swings for the fences. Often, it connects. There are few truly bad moments, because it tries so hard to achieve the campiness of old comics and the Batman TV show. Most conventionally bad moments are there as a wink to the audience. It's lightly comedic with often-criticized gags like the "Bat Credit Card" and multiple allusions to action figures. Other parts are just all-out bluster from the director. Either you're onboard for Bat-butt (the very first scene) or you're not. My favorite scene was Poison Ivy's introduction at the gala. She is always at 100% and her introduction matches. I've watched her intro up through her first line fivethirtytimes - it's a masterpiece. It tells you everything she's about. Her theme in the scene is show-stopping.
Comic book sensibilities carry Batman & Robin. Everything is larger-than-life, from the intense bubbling of Freeze's cryo-experiment to the sewer motorcycle race. This is Joel Schumacher's second Batman movie and he returns to what he likes - florescent ravers, neon, theatrical hideouts, etc. Mr. Freeze's silvery ice makeup is phenomenal and must have been a pain to work with. This movie and Speed Racer are the only ones I think could fully work as a comic book. It's committed to making every frame a painting.
Oh man I'm glad this was bumped. Cause I remember seeing it a few days back and I was just like, seriously?
No, it's just bad. Some movies are just bad, and not all bad movies can become cult movies. If you want to get extremely ironic with it, like so ironic and 4th wall winking that you jump through the screen then swim back to reality, then yeah, maybe, in that exceedingly narrow margin, Batman & Robin is like okay and cool and hip.
But sometimes a movie is just bad, and with whatever few redeeming values it has (Bone Thugs, hell yeah, and general pure 90s vibe), it's just bad. It's cool to highlight certain parts of it (Bone Thugs), but you Sopranos, you go too far.
Loved it then, love it now, warts and all - largely for the reasons OP outlined. Most of my friend circle who are not hardcore seriously into comics seem to love it as well.
The first half-3/4s of this movie are a riot (particularly the super zany cold open with Freeze so prepared for a tussle with Batman, his plan involves getting into a space rocket, trapping Batman in it & bailing), but once you get to the observatory climax it peters out hard. Which is such a bummer because I think this movie has a lot more going for it than Forever which is a liminal film caught between Burton's style of comic book camp & Schumacher's and worse for it.
This movie's version of Gotham is peak. Takes the vibe from Returns (my personal fave of the 90s flicks) and cranks it up to 11. Love it
People who still try and insist Batman and Robin is some sin against cinema 25 years later are just...weird, and a little sad. Since then we've had worse DC movies and worse Batman movies specifically. Let it go, the film's fine. If anything the last decade of Batman movies which are a little ashamed of being Batman movies makes Schumacher's gonzo approach more appealing by contrast.
And that's without considering how so much of the backlash came from insecure teenage boy/man-children who hated that Schuamacher made Batman a little gay. Or rather, embraced the homoerotic nature of the character which has always been there.
So your argument is that this movie seems better now because we've had worse movies since, and most of the people who hate it are a little homophobic? Ok, that's certainly a take.
If you want to argue it's so bad it wraps back around to being good, then at least that's an argument. Personally, I'd rather watch Adam West Batman if I want campy Batman.
Batman and Robin is just a pale imitation no one wanted.
People who still try and insist Batman and Robin is some sin against cinema 25 years later are just...weird, and a little sad. Since then we've had worse DC movies and worse Batman movies specifically. Let it go, the film's fine. If anything the last decade of Batman movies which are a little ashamed of being Batman movies makes Schumacher's gonzo approach more appealing by contrast.
And that's without considering how so much of the backlash came from insecure teenage boy/man-children who hated that Schuamacher made Batman a little gay. Or rather, embraced the homoerotic nature of the character which has always been there.
It's supremely funny that criticizing one of the most cynically made blockbusters of the 90s is "weird and sad" like it's some indie art film that went unappreciated in its time
yessss the toy focused design is so funny, gotta love the ice outfits. remember the term "toyetic" being used in a lot of behind the scenes stuff, hella weird
People who still try and insist Batman and Robin is some sin against cinema 25 years later are just...weird, and a little sad. Since then we've had worse DC movies and worse Batman movies specifically. Let it go, the film's fine. If anything the last decade of Batman movies which are a little ashamed of being Batman movies makes Schumacher's gonzo approach more appealing by contrast.
And that's without considering how so much of the backlash came from insecure teenage boy/man-children who hated that Schuamacher made Batman a little gay. Or rather, embraced the homoerotic nature of the character which has always been there.
Before computers got cheap, movies had to use physical effects. Filmmakers had to think about how their movies would look before filming was over. Completely changing the aesthetic with a new green-screen background was not possible. Do-overs were known as re-shoots, and people physically built...
seglegs.racing
I will say
the second half is weaker than the first (think of that incredible opening with the rocket jump and the hockey team from hell)
but it's still a 9/10 fantastic flick.
Starting with the visuals and going all the way down, Batman & Robin swings for the fences. Often, it connects. There are few truly bad moments, because it tries so hard to achieve the campiness of old comics and the Batman TV show. Most conventionally bad moments are there as a wink to the audience. It's lightly comedic with often-criticized gags like the "Bat Credit Card" and multiple allusions to action figures. Other parts are just all-out bluster from the director. Either you're onboard for Bat-butt (the very first scene) or you're not. My favorite scene was Poison Ivy's introduction at the gala. She is always at 100% and her introduction matches. I've watched her intro up through her first line fivethirtytimes - it's a masterpiece. It tells you everything she's about. Her theme in the scene is show-stopping.
Comic book sensibilities carry Batman & Robin. Everything is larger-than-life, from the intense bubbling of Freeze's cryo-experiment to the sewer motorcycle race. This is Joel Schumacher's second Batman movie and he returns to what he likes - florescent ravers, neon, theatrical hideouts, etc. Mr. Freeze's silvery ice makeup is phenomenal and must have been a pain to work with. This movie and Speed Racer are the only ones I think could fully work as a comic book. It's committed to making every frame a painting.
Loved it then, love it now, warts and all - largely for the reasons OP outlined. Most of my friend circle who are not hardcore seriously into comics seem to love it as well.
The first half-3/4s of this movie are a riot (particularly the super zany cold open with Freeze so prepared for a tussle with Batman, his plan involves getting into a space rocket, trapping Batman in it & bailing), but once you get to the observatory climax it peters out hard. Which is such a bummer because I think this movie has a lot more going for it than Forever which is a liminal film caught between Burton's style of comic book camp & Schumacher's and worse for it.
This movie's version of Gotham is peak. Takes the vibe from Returns (my personal fave of the 90s flicks) and cranks it up to 11. Love it
oooo, good point. i think this was pointed out by a few others, and upon further reflection i'd have to agree... my current favorite line in the movie is in that scene ("Hey, Freeze!" *puts Bat Heater on Mr Freeze's belly* "The heat is on.") but it's not up there with the wildness that came before it.
this entire thread was worth it just to read "giant booba cup suits"... also totally agree with you! i don't think there's a damn thing wrong with giant booba cup suits (lol) or bat nipples!!
oddly enough, i actually did something similar with the movie Mandy... i watched it twice at a local theater, high out of my mind, and then never watched it again because i didn't want to spoil the joy it gave me then... i walked out thinking it was the greatest movie i had ever seen! lol
If you want to argue it's so bad it wars back around to being good, then at least that's an argument. Personally, I'd rather watch Adam West Batman if I want campy Batman.
Batman and Robin is just a pale imitation no one wanted.
this is a take i had never heard before making this post, and have now seen numerous times in replies. i don't agree with this take, but i respect and like it.
Truth be told, after 20+ we are still talking about it so it did something right🤷🏾♂️
Even then I got the cheese, but I thought it was (is) about 30 thirty minutes too long. Honestly most Batman movies are lol
It's a slog that's too long. Uma and Arnold are fun as the villains but don't play off of the protagonists as well as Carrey and Jones did in Forever. Batman is barely a character in the movie. At least in '89 he's still a new threat that waits in the shadows, for as little screen time as Keaton has.
Batman and Robin isn't good, that doesn't mean it couldn't be enjoyable though...it's just not that either. For as goofy and stupid it's aesthetic is, for as gloriously hammy as Schwarzenegger is in some scenes, it's just nowhere near fun enough to be a good bad movie. The action sucks, it's a hugely ugly and fake looking movie, Clooney is BADLY miscast and somehow has zero charm, it's not camp enough, it's not fun enough, the Bat Credit Card gag should've been funny but it was delivered with all the energy of a McDonalds employee at midnight so lands with a thud.... it's a failure on every level. Schwarzenegger is easily the best thing about the movie, but even his dumbass character only fires on the cheesy-bad cylinders a couple of times. His other scenes of maudlin over his wife or that bit where he's walking around in a robe and slippers land with a thud. Robin was turned into a whiny little knobend too, and poor Alicia Silverstone is done dirty as Batgirl. Obviously only thrown in there for the closeup shot of her character's butt in the costume, she's a far cry from her star making turn in Clueless.
God, Clooney is SO fucking bad in it, he so obviously gives so little fucks and has zero energy to give the role. Val Kilmer was WAY better in his turn. Batman Forever was the better Schumacher Batman flick...by miles!
Nothing against the guy but I feel like Chris O'Donnell kinda drags down every movie he's in. Bad acting and he has a very generic look. Also B&R feels the most like its a fake world with people running around in cheap costmes. I preferred Forever but I like all the Batman movies so far except for the horrible "The Batman", ironic because I was actually looking forward to it the most. My fave would have to be Batman Begins cuz of many reasons but mainly Neeson.
