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Deleted member 1003

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,638
I never tested up during the songs, "Do you want to build a snowman?" and the Christophe 80's songs were favorites.

I did tear up at the story beats between the sisters, especially the climatic scene at the end of Frozen.
 

Andrin

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 11, 2017
258
I'm just going to quote my opinion from an earlier thread where this exact discussion popped up:
The entire sequence around 'Show Yourself' is incredibly cathartic. It's a perfect conclusion to Elsa's journey as a character, and it's also really, really queer.
Elsa's story as a whole mirrors the experience of a lot of LGBT+ people, and her songs especially parallel the journey from denial to self-acceptance in a really powerful way.
From her brief solo in 'First Time In Forever': "Conceal. Don't feel. Put on a show. Make one wrong move and everyone will know." Where her entire focus is to hide and deny any sign of something that's an intrinsic part of her but makes her feel alien and monstrous to the ones around her. To the point that it has quite literally frozen her growth as a person and her ability to form connections with the people around her.
To 'Let It Go', where she can't hold back those parts of herself that she's been denying anymore, but responds by trading one form of denial with another by simply isolating herself from everyone she cares about, just under the guise of self-acceptance this time.
Fast forward a few years and we have 'Into The Unknown'. She's now accepted that she's different, and that her loved ones still love her back. At the same time she never really feels truly happy, and keeps on trying to prove herself to those around her, to prove that she's worthy of being loved in spite of her differences and not because of them. And all the while a voice only she can hear keeps calling to her, encouraging her to let go of her fears and follow her true feelings.
Then comes 'Show Yourself', where she has finally arrived at the literal source of her powers but also the figurative core of who she is. And where she realises that what she has been looking for isn't validation from someone else but rather the ability to truly accept herself as who she is and to live as her true self, with all artifice scaled away. To quote the song: "You are the one you've been looking for. All of my/your life."
Add to that the repeated allusions to doors as a metaphor of denial and isolation throughout both films, first with Anna only being able to communicate with her sister through a locked door, then with Elsa's first form of 'self-acceptance' ending with her literally slamming the door shut on the rest of the world, and finally ending with Elsa imploring the Voice/herself to "Open your door" and let the full truth come to light once and for all. The similarities with the process of 'coming out' of the metaphorical closet are pretty obvious. As a person who has struggled with self-acceptance well into my adult life the song really resonated with me, and I'm not ashamed to admit that I was openly bawling my eyes out by the end of it at my screening.
All in all, I fully agree with those who say that it was one of the strongest songs that Disney have ever put out.

It's anecdotal, but from what I've seen the song resonated a lot more strongly among queer people while most comments about it being boring or pointless comes from straight people.
 

Xita

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
9,185
It's a good song, but Into the Unknown was better, and then Let It Go was better than both (which makes sense, as Frozen 1 is the superior movie).
 

Chasex

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,697
Both movies are great and show yourself is the emotional climax of the series. It's impossible to not feel anything. I question anyone who claims they didn't.
 

Civilstrife

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,286
I'm just going to quote my opinion from an earlier thread where this exact discussion popped up:


It's anecdotal, but from what I've seen the song resonated a lot more strongly among queer people while most comments about it being boring or pointless comes from straight people.
Am queer, can confirm.
Your quoted post absolutely nails it.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,497
Watched this yesterday with my kids. I liked it, I think I prefer it to Frozen 1 in terms of story and visuals and so on, but I can recall a single song. I know I enjoyed them (lost in the woods as a pastiche of 80s big hair ballads was fun) but I couldn't sing a single line back to you or recall any of the tunes. I can sing along with most of the songs from Frozen 1. It's odd really, it's not as cohesive a story as the first but I enjoyed it slightly more.

I also didn't cry, I chuckled slightly to be honest. I could see what the animators were going for, they had the whole wobbly lip thing going on as Elsa struggles with multiple emotions and it was pretty well done as that's got to be some really hard shit to animate, but ultimately to me it still looked a little bit daft.

I also thought they were going to wipe out Arendell, but them I remembered it's Disney and has to have a happy ending. I'm not hugely enamoured with Olaf either but I liked his recaps.
 

Dragon1893

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,446
Well, I didn't cry but I was blown away by how powerful and beautiful the scene is, both with its music and visuals.
Loved the movie.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,731
When my kid was a toddler she had a temp so we brought her to the ED, waited hours in the waiting room after assessment. Frozen was on loop the whole time, we watched it three times back to back there... mumble mumble geneva convention mumble mumble...
 
Oct 26, 2017
19,762
The moment was completely unearned

Ever major "emotional" moment is completely unearned.
I kept trying to put into words my issue with the song, and the movie as a whole, but couldn't come up with anything. Then I read this, and you pulled the word right out of my head that I was looking for: the word I was searching for was "unearned." And hell...It's really hard to build up to something meaningful when you start the film with such a weak foundation.

At least Frozen 2 had Lost in the Woods.
 

Herne

Member
Dec 10, 2017
5,319
I keep getting distracted by the fact that Elsa and Anna have eyes that make up 25% of their skull.
 

Foxnull

Alt-Account
Banned
May 30, 2019
1,651
So apparently I'm not even human then? Okay. Frozen didn't do anything for me, it's not even a good movie. It's great if other people can like it this much, but it's not for me somehow.
 

icyflamez96

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,590
Frozen II was a mediorcre movie and there is no reason I'd cry at something with weak/uninteresting narrative backing.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,330
I kept trying to put into words my issue with the song, and the movie as a whole, but couldn't come up with anything. Then I read this, and you pulled the word right out of my head that I was looking for: the word I was searching for was "unearned." And hell...It's really hard to build up to something meaningful when you start the film with such a weak foundation.

At least Frozen 2 had Lost in the Woods.

Yeah I honestly found the movie confusing because everyone was acting like there was huge weight but Elsa's entire arc is so just sudden and really unprompted
 

Dyno

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
13,338
This film was actually a big let down in general. There was a lot of potential but all of it was squandered. Initially I though I'd prefer it as there was room to explore to world more, it just never really does it and ends up adding less on that front than the original. There's some interesting themes in there, top of the list being the effects of colonialism, but the film often forgets the seriousness of its themes opting instead to do elsa stuff, which would be fine if she had any narrative other than undoing the first film for her.

By the time the films done, it ends up having achieved very little, sets up Arendelle as the villains but immediately fixes it, splits up the sisters by making elsa practically a god and saying they both have shit to do which for Anna amounts to doing the same she was before and for else means riding a water horse in the middle of nowhere. The film tries to have so many different things going on thematically throughout it that it essentially fails at virtually all of it and ends up feeling completely aimless
 

Elandyll

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
8,829
The song starts very well, but rapidly becomes a complete mess both tonally and structurally, and by the end loses completely any sense of individuality as it transforms into a medley of Let it Go, Into the Unknown and All is Found.

Into the Unknown was imo the far better song, and at the very least makes a much better case for its own existence as opposed to what amounts to a Reprise of All is Found.
In fact I think Lost in the Woods, All is Found, When I am Older and The Next Right Thing are also better overall.
 

amoy

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,230
What am I missing here, not only I felt nothing good I actually got annoyed by the weirdness of the sequence.

Colors of the Wind remains my fav Disney/Pixar song.
 

XenIneX

Member
Oct 28, 2017
622
So very, very meh.


Frozen 1 has all the hallmarks of a salvaged movie. You can see the cracks where it started as a disjointed mish-mash which didn't work, and then someone swooped in and saved the whole project. The end result is... decent-to-good. It bogs down a bit in places, and the love-interest going full-on mustache-twirling evil was silly, but the highs are so very good that it ends up feeling incredibly satisfying. Let It Go may be a bit overplayed, but it earned that overplay.

Frozen 2 is, quite clearly, unsalvaged. It's a whole bunch of random plot threads and nonsensical worldbuilding, buttressed by songs which are middling at best, and unmoored from the constraints of coherent plot. There's so much wrong with it, that I'd have to rewatch it to run it all down, and the thought of doing so makes me actively squirm. (fake edit: I ended up scrubbing through most of it anyway...) So, some highlights:

--------------------

Elsa's songs are crap -- two separate sequences grasping to reach the heights of Let It Go and failing miserably, buoyed only by the fact that Idina Menzel is doing her damnedest to hold them together.


Into the Unknown is the less-awful one. It starts strong, with solid verses, but then the chorus comes in, and it just belts out the same line over and over, to little effect. (For comparison, in its chorus, Let It Go manages to expound on the entire thesis statement of the movie.) And then, it fritters away the bridge on wordless vocalizations, and is abruptly truncated by the most unsatisfying lack of resolution imaginable. I'd swear it was an unfinished temp-track if Disney hadn't actually pressed it to CDs.

Overall, it's a meandering mess that wastes valuable time on fripperies, has no clear direction, and rushes to an unsatisfying conclusion. (So I guess it does contain the movie's thesis statement...)

Worse, however, is how -- during the aforementioned bridge -- they tried to have their big magical "Elsa builds her castle" moment... with the better part of a minute of knock-off Fantasia rejects in a featureless void. What The actual Fuck? What is happening here? Why? How? Where? For what purpose? Who's even doing half this shit? How does this tie into the metaphysics of the world? In Frozen, it was obvious what was happening -- Elsa built a castle and made a dress. Here, it's completely unmotivated nonsense.

This is the point I resigned myself to the fact that I was in for a slog, and that nobody was steering this ship.


Show Yourself is, again, very meh. It's more of the same as Into the Unknown, but it says even less.

On a literal, narrative level, it's almost entirely vacuous. As a self-empowerment message, it comes up woefully short next to Let It Go. For a very specific reading, for a very specific audience, with a very specific lived experience, it'll probably resonate. In the context of the movie, however, it says nothing and goes nowhere.

Musically, it's just a mess -- a weird mix of cliche and unstructured directionlessness, building to a befuddlingly nonsensical reprise of All Is Found (the only song in this whole mess I don't have angry words for) in the bridge. The instrumentals are so soulless I almost can't believe they aren't MIDI-synth placeholders.

The visuals are only vaguely less embarrassingly bad than Into the Unknown, if only because completely plot-disconnected bottle-episode ice cave is marginally better than featureless void of particle-system rendering tech-demos. The magic is, again, completely untethered from the world -- abstract symbology without causality. Except for where they tried to make it grandiose and concrete, and failed because the physicality has no weight or reason. Then they do the dress thing, so they can, once again, fail to recapture the Let It Go lightning-in-a-bottle, of course. Fuck this so very much.

--------------------
Other bits, in brief:


Kristoff's engagement arc is such a plot cul-de-sac... 10 minutes and 1.5 songs pissed away while the actual plot is a rushed mess. You're in the middle of an existential crisis, and you're wasting time on these trash-tier-anime level hijinks? Learn to read the room, fuckstick. Also, I've got no problem with inspiration, and all, but that direct rip of You're the Inspiration by Chicago is a bit on-the-nose, isn't it?


I like Olaf, and all, but he was such a pointless timesink. His only plot-relevant action was dying. If they'd left him behind in Arendelle and actually developed the plot, things would have been so much better. (And, they wouldn't have had to resort to deus-ex-machina fuckery to bring him back...) Obligatory song complaint: wow, this trite nursery-room trash is boring. At least In Summer was amusing. Billion dollar franchise, and this is the best you can do...


Elsa's self-discovery arc was a nothingburger. "Why am I like this?" "Because your Mom was like this." Cool. Yer a wizard, Elsa. I'm sure there's any number of weird readings that can be pulled out of it, but I'm getting tired of delving into this mess.


I guess Anna might have had an arc, but by the time it gets to the point of resolving, I'm too dead inside to be invested. There's a song, I guess? It wants me to feel something? Skipping though, it seems alright. I just can't bring myself to care.


The colonialism arc, where Disney makes a spiritual sequel to Pocahontas, and it's so much fucking worse. Hoo boy... Mining the plight of oppressed indigenous peoples for fun and profit -- but a nice, generic indigenous people that won't rile anyone up. Also, colonial oppression is just caused by the actions of one cartoonishly-evil asshole. (Never mind that a dam on that scale would take a pre-industrial town's worth of people a generation to build...) And the effects can, of course, be fixed by a single noble act with zero consequences, because more deus-ex-machina fuckery. (Thank god that Elsa inherited Momahontas' mojo...) I need to stop thinking about this, because I'm clearly putting more thought in than Disney's finest script doctors did, and it's just irritating me...

--------------------

The bit that probably pisses me off the most is that they literally released the best bits as trailers and everything else was a complete dumpster-fire. Like, that first teaser featuring the beach scene was, without a doubt in my mind, the best sequence in the movie. Then, the next couple trailers come out, and they look a little rote, but seem like they'll be a fun adventure romp anyway. And then, the movie drops, and it is such an abysmal disappointment. It's almost like they decided to make a sequel to their billion-dollar franchise and -- oops! -- forgot to write a script, so they had each scene lead make it up on the fly. This absolutely reminds me of the Tinkerbell series of movies -- a barely-coherent trainwreck interspersed with a few cute scenes.

Clearly, between this and Wreck-It Ralph 2, Disney's direct-to-video sequel garbage factory is alive and well, just with a bigger budget.
 

Devil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,669
I think Frozen 1 and 2 are the most mediocre movies by the Disney studios since the new era beginning with Tangled. I don't think that song in OP is anything special. It tries so hard to evoke emotions that it seems silly to me.

That being said, I cannot deny they're influential as hell... I mean, has anybody else thought that Jasmine's song in the recent live action Aladdin movie was such a wannabe Let it go moment? It felt so out of place.
 

Benzychenz

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 1, 2017
15,396
Australia
The only emotion I felt during that song was confusion. It's like Elsa was going on the same arc she already went through in the first Frozen.

Then it reveals that she was looking for herself all along and I'm like ???? Isn't this just Let It Go????

Both Frozen's are bottom tier Disney flicks.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,497
One thing I didn't really get is that in frozen 2 Elsa's parents are basically shown to know all about magic and her mum is basically from the magical peoples so that's nice, and they're quite happy for Elsa and Anna to play with magically conjured snow etc - so why do they hide her away from everyone when she accidentally shoots Anna with an ice blast or whatever in the first film? And she's like 9 when that happens, she's shut away in her room because....why? The people of Arendell don't like magic? They came around quite quickly in frozen 1.

I dunno I still liked 2 for what it was, but I have no great love for 1 so it's not a high bar to clear.
 

takriel

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,221
Seemed more like blatant emotional manipulation to me.
 

Deleted member 15227

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,819
Frozen 2 felt pretty forced to me, and the songs were pretty poor and preachy as well. The only song I enjoyed was 'Lost in the Woods' and that was a homage/parody song. Movie felt totally unnecessary.
 
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DrForester

Mod of the Year 2006
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,711
Show Yourself had some amazing visuals, and it was better than Into the Unknown.

But I still don't think it topped Let It Go.
 

XaviConcept

Art Director for Videogames
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
4,914
I saw the movie (and song) in spanish and wasnt impressed, still havent heard it in english but I doubt my opinion is gonna change, to be honest.
 

Deleted member 3208

Oct 25, 2017
11,934
So glad to know I'm a monster.

But for real, Frozen 2 was such a disappointment I was falling asleep the entire movie.
 

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
39,052
Frozen 2 is amazing. I've watched it 20 times the last month

I got feelings through it too.

Coco tho has me blubbering

Disappointed by onward
 
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King Dodongo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,026
I'm the kind of fella that never cries at chickflicks but is always tearing up at the LOTR emotional moments.