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What would you wish away?

  • Toxicity. Cheating I can handle.

    Votes: 1,376 63.3%
  • Cheating. Toxicity I can handle.

    Votes: 643 29.6%
  • I'm bothered by both equally. Can't decide.

    Votes: 106 4.9%
  • I don't play online games. So I'd instead wish for Fatforall to hug me.

    Votes: 50 2.3%

  • Total voters
    2,175

Yrch

Member
Oct 29, 2017
502
I'm astonished at how many people seem to think that Toxicity is easy to counter by simply muting and ignoring toxic players or the whole team.

I mean really?
"yeah I play this team based game but you know everyone is an idiot so I mute mic and deactivate chat so they don't bother me.

Yeah that a nice base for team games...

Toxicity goes much further that just trash talking people
 

Deleted member 56306

User-requested account closure
Banned
Apr 26, 2019
2,383
Cheating is way less prevalent than this shit
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Worst part is that this is so prevalent in games that you really can't avoid it, even if you switch games.
 

Kazooie

Member
Jul 17, 2019
5,014
Toxiciy. Neither affects me personally at all, because I only play offline singleplayer games, but toxicity can hurt others, cheating is an annoyance at worst.
 

Richietto

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,964
North Carolina
I've been playing games online for a long ass time and cheating is something I can and do deal with with no problem. It's a video game, it's just not that serious that it gets at me. But being able to play multiplayer without the racist, misogynist, and outright horrible comments? That's the dream.
 

Deleted member 283

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,288
Like, seriously people. Tell people like Zoe Quinn or Anita Sarkeesian and other victims of garbage like GamerGate how fucking easy it is to just mute people and magically make harassment and toxicity just go away. Just try telling them that (or rather, please seriously don't and just leave them alone and actually don't come anywhere close to invalidating the experiences if people like that with that garbage).

Like it actually does work for you? That's great, and I do believe you in that case. Believe it or not, I actually do.

But that's entirely beside the point. That point being that others.... Aren't always that lucky to put it mildly.

And I know what comes next.

"But that hasn't happened to me personally."

Guess what?

Hasn't happened to me either.

Doesn't stop me from caring about and having sympathy toward people such as those all the same, and I'd gladly put up with cheating a thousand times over if they never had to put up with any of the garbage they had to put up with.

That being the case, I just can't get any other answer than toxicity here. I just can't.
 

RisingStar

Banned
Oct 8, 2019
4,849
I'm surprised at these answers. You can mute chat, but cheating actively ruins your progress in game. I'll take a toxic team that I can ignore if needed over getting swept by a cheater.

Yes lack of communication can lead to a shit game but even with the best communication, you can't prevent cheating.
 

RecRoulette

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,044
Kinda sad that the poll isn't more lopsided towards toxicity.

Ironically "squidbagging" from Splatoon is one of the forms of toxity that pisses me off the most lol. I don't know why but it really gets to me sometimes... I guess because you can't mute or ignore it like in-game chats.

The sound it makes adds a lot to it personally
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,902
I don't understand how this is even a contest?

Toxicity is the clear answer. Eliminating it somehow would also eliminate a lot of the cheating as I'm pretty sure a good deal of that is directly tied to toxicity. Also a world in which minorities could game in peace for a little escapism without running into hateful speech would be something far greater to strive for than cheat free gaming.
 

SanTheSly

The San Symphony Project
Member
Sep 2, 2019
6,503
United Kingdom
Toxicity and it's not even close.

Cheating is such a marginal problem that won't affect 99% of players and you have to assume that at the high play level in some games that the Devs would eventually crack down on it or punish those found to cheat.

Even if they're not, they're only cheating in a videogame. If they're cheating in a contest for a huge cash prize it becomes a criminal problem.

Toxicity on the other hand is often in the realm of hate crime, and actively much more of a problem.

People gatekeeping a medium designed around escapism with their racist, phobic, bigoted worldviews shouldn't be allowed to play video games at all. This should be a safe space for everyone.
 

PetyrBaeless

Member
Apr 3, 2019
313
Toxicity.

I'm tired of being called the N word, or the F word, in games. I can mute people, doesn't make it any less frustrating.
 

Nocturnowl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,094
One could say cheating is a branch of the ever growing behemoth that is toxicity.
That and devs will do a better job trying to clamp down on cheating as opposed to toxicity which is much more rampant and unpunished.

Granted I don't play online games on a PC so the cheating landscape isn't nearly as present for me.
Toxicity though,it's just dreadful, I don't get it, I'll never get it.
It puts people off playing games, it tends to be exclusionary, it's like having some of the worst aspects of human nature channelled directly into your video game and I cannot comprehend the mindset of these toxic players without having to just assume that they're overburdened with misery.
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
52,965
I'm astonished at how many people seem to think that Toxicity is easy to counter by simply muting and ignoring toxic players or the whole team.

I mean really?
"yeah I play this team based game but you know everyone is an idiot so I mute mic and deactivate chat so they don't bother me.

Yeah that a nice base for team games...

Toxicity goes much further that just trash talking people
Yeah but the way the question and poll is framed is basically which bothers you more. And for people like me who don't use in game chat 99% of the time cheating affects my enjoyment of the games I play more than toxicity does. Because I can actually see cheating and be on the receiving end of it. If I am in a party with friends or have chat turned off like I usually do I don't even hear the toxicity therefore it's not affecting my experience.
 

c0Zm1c

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,202
Toxicity can include racism, misogyny and homophobia. Cheating sucks but toxicity is far, far worse.
 

EloKa

GSP
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,906
Easy choice: Toxicity.

I don't see a good reason why someone would vote for Cheating tbh.
 

Soj

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,693
Cheating.

I don't talk to people I don't know and the abuse people hurl at me on death mic nourishes my soul.
 

zswordsman

Member
Nov 5, 2017
1,771
Toxicity without a doubt. Was playing a few games Sunday night when this guy that we used to play with joined our party. He used to work with us and we used to play COD a lot together but drifted because he can get too into it at times.

The night started off ok but little by little that dude would just get more toxic. n-word here, yelling at the enemy team and teammates about why they don't follow his orders and stuff. By the fifth match I just straight up muted him for the last couple of seconds and then just called it a night. Fuck people like that.
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,055
Appalachia
Changed my official vote from "both" to "toxicity" because ffs people

Yeah but the way the question and poll is framed is basically which bothers you more. And for people like me who doesn't use in game chat 99% of the time cheating affects my enjoyment of the games I play more than toxicity does. Because I can actually see cheating and be on the receiving end of it. If I am in a party with friends or have chat turned off like I usually do I don't even hear the toxicity therefore it's not affecting my experience.
The OP only says "what would you choose?" It does not say "which affects you the personally?"

So really the question is a mirror that is showing where people's priorities lie. So actually the framing is pretty good lol
 

Spring-Loaded

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,904
Seems some people have a perception of toxicity being limited to individual matches in an online game.

Shit like swatting, death/rape threats, and harassment campaigns have ruined peoples' lives—there's no comparison between that and running into online cheaters.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,960
I don't play a lot of online games and when I do the only occasion in which I turn on the mic is when I'm playing with friends, so I have never experienced toxicity in games. Having said that, hands down I would choose to eliminate toxicity.

No person deserves to listen to some shit people say at others like that. A lot of toxic speech is criminalized and wouldn't be tolerated in any other way in real life. It's absurd how in 2020 there's still no relevant action from platform holders against it. And theres so many ways to prevent it or at least punish it.
 

Deleted member 283

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,288
I'm surprised at these answers. You can mute chat, but cheating actively ruins your progress in game. I'll take a toxic team that I can ignore if needed over getting swept by a cheater.

Yes lack of communication can lead to a shit game but even with the best communication, you can't prevent cheating.
How do you fix people getting so mad at you that they figure out who you are in real life, and send a SWAT team to your door, saying you're a terrorist or some nonsense?

Muting isn't some magical cure all.

Or to out it another way: ruining progress in a game sucks, yes. You know what sucks more than that though?

Dying, because someone got that angry at at online game.

Which is rare, but nonetheless happens, and even once is too much. Toxicity is not some online-only problem, they cross boundaries all the time.

Cheating very rarely rises to levels like that. Whereas, swatting, yes, that's also uncommon, but it's also something I don't personally have to deal with to get his terrible it is and how it should happen to no one, even if it never happens to me.

They're just completely different world due to stuff like that. Don't have to have it happen to me personally to nonetheless wish the world was better for everyone else, to wish no one would have to endure that all the same.

That's why it's so hard for me to understand people picking cheating. Because even if it doesn't happen to me personally, toxicity nonetheless affects people's lives in ways cheating never will.

So that being the case, if I had the power to pick one or the other, of course I'd pick toxicity. Can't imagine doing otherwise and treating cheating as a higher priority anyway, when I could not just be improving lives but flat out saving them by picking toxicity instead.
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
52,965
The OP only says "what would you choose?" It does not say "which affects you the personally?"

So really the question is a mirror that is showing where people's priorities lie. So actually the framing is pretty good lol
Well then there needs to be a both option since cheating is a form of toxicity. Because as it's framed right it makes it sound like those who chose cheating don't care about toxicity.
 

MasonADC

Member
Sep 28, 2018
416
It's really sad that toxicity is winning over cheating. Most if not all games have mute or block functions. We can easily get out of toxicity but you can't stop a cheater
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,055
Appalachia
Yeah but it also says "I can handle" in the options.
That's true, but that also is showing where people's priorities lie inasmuch as it's showing what parts of the OP/poll options they are focusing on

Well then there needs to be a both option since cheating is a form of toxicity. Because as it's framed right it makes it sound like those who chose cheating don't care about toxicity.
There is a "both" option you literally just quoted a post of mine saying I changed my vote from "both"

Poll options in threads here are always loaded, I have stopped acknowledging the text unless it's particularly questionable and instead provide my actual thoughts in the comments
 

DrKelpo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,861
Germany
Toxicity... it's awful human behavior.
Cheating also sucks but there are ways to counter it and it's much less important than the other one.
 

Musubi

Unshakable Resolve - Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
23,611
Eh...I'm going to go cheating. Like who doesn't just mute everyone these days or are in private chat on discord with friends these days. I feel like chat in games is extremely opt in while cheating ruins the game for everyone.
 

SaberVS7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,237
Toxicity didn't cause my ranking in Siege to get wiped down from High-Gold to Low-Bronze in the last week of a season because someone in my static was secretly being toxic.
 

Deleted member 283

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,288
It's really sad that toxicity is winning over cheating. Most if not all games have mute or block functions. We can easily get out of toxicity but you can't stop a cheater
I ask you too, what to do about stuff like this then:
www.cnn.com

An Ohio gamer gets prison time over a 'swatting' call that led to a man's death | CNN

An Ohio video gamer who played a role in a hoax phone call that led police to kill a man in Kansas was sentenced Friday to 15 months in prison, authorities said.

Muting is not the magical cure-all some would like to portray it as. What do you do with levels of rage like that, that causes a person to even consider such a thing in the first place, nevermind go through with it? Muting ain't going to stop that, once someone has made up their mind to engage in such bike courses of action.

That may not have happened to you, it may not have happened to me, but if I nonetheless had the power to stop either that or cheating, of course I'd put something like that, of course I'd put matters that do unfortunately sometimes evolve into matters of life and death, ahead if cheating, and don't get the deluge of "lol just mute" responses 'cause that's just missing so much if why toxicity is such a huge problem it's not even funny.
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
52,965
There is a "both" option you literally just quoted a post of mine saying I changed my vote from "both"

Poll options in threads here are always loaded, I have stopped acknowledging the text unless it's particularly questionable and instead provide my actual thoughts in the comments
Oh wow I'm dumb lol It's not an excuse, but when I voted I was on my way to my car so I don't think I read the whole poll. And I only read the part of your post that was responding to me so I didn't catch you mentioning the both part.


I need to get more sleep if I'm gonna be posting in the mornings I think.
 

Deleted member 56306

User-requested account closure
Banned
Apr 26, 2019
2,383
It's really sad that toxicity is winning over cheating. Most if not all games have mute or block functions. We can easily get out of toxicity but you can't stop a cheater

I can't block Mordhau devs allowing their toxic community to fester or block them even tossing about the idea of a gender toggle. Like toxicity is wayyyy more than just in-game chat.
 

Xypher

Member
Oct 27, 2017
582
Germany
Eh...I'm going to go cheating. Like who doesn't just mute everyone these days or are in private chat on discord with friends these days. I feel like chat in games is extremely opt in while cheating ruins the game for everyone.
What about toxicity in gaming communities, online forums, social media etc. ? The effects that has on people's lives? Those cases where someone may have commited suicide because they were struggling in real life and were now pushed over the edge because even in their safe space they were insulted and bullied?

Toxicity in gaming is far more than just in-game behavior and the Incel movement is one thing we can thank the platform we keep giving toxic players for. You may mute others or only play with friends, others do not do that and I'll just quote myself from earlier in this thread "Toxicity preys on those, which are already weak".
 
Oct 26, 2017
912
Thinking only for myself that would be cheating. I only play with friends so I have no problems with toxicity.

That said, I'd think it would be better for the gaming community to leave toxicity behind.
 

Deleted member 283

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,288
Toxicity didn't cause my ranking in Siege to get wiped down from High-Gold to Low-Bronze in the last week of a season because someone in my static was secretly being toxic.
That's indeed unfortunate. On the other hand, toxicity has put others into literal life or death situations. Don't need to have that happen to me personally to nonetheless put it on the higher priority than stopping cheating because however much that sucks, and I'm not saying it doesn't, people almost being killed because of toxicity in certain situations nonetheless ranks higher and if I had literal magic powers to stop one or the other, I know which one I personally would focus on.
 
Nov 17, 2017
12,864
How is this even a choice? Cheating, obviously.
Have you ever been harassed in a game simply for your sex or race or background?

It's really sad that toxicity is winning over cheating. Most if not all games have mute or block functions. We can easily get out of toxicity but you can't stop a cheater
The problem with this logic is that as a minority that basically means I can't ever use voice chat with randoms unless I feel like being subjected to racist jokes. That basically says that function, that space is for those toxic players. It basically says it's ok for them to be that way but why do that when in this hypothetical scenario you could eliminate that?

With cheating, it's not even that common and the devs can address those issues if they do become more common by patching the game. Muting and blocking toxic players puts all the burden on me. I still have to hear someone call me a nigger first before I can mute/block them; it's emotionally draining. So I just don't use voice chat at all unless it's with people I know but my friends aren't always available and they don't play all the same online games as me so voice chat is just a feature I don't get to use.

No and you're never going to get rid of it as long as humans exist. Cheating on the other hand is a problem in games that can feasibly be solved.
But the thread premise is that you can get rid of it.
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,055
Appalachia
I ask you too, what to do about stuff like this then:
www.cnn.com

An Ohio gamer gets prison time over a 'swatting' call that led to a man's death | CNN

An Ohio video gamer who played a role in a hoax phone call that led police to kill a man in Kansas was sentenced Friday to 15 months in prison, authorities said.

Muting is not the magical cure-all some would like to portray it as. What do you do with levels of rage like that, that causes a person to even consider such a thing in the first place, nevermind go through with it? Muting ain't going to stop that, once someone has made up their mind to engage in such bike courses of action.

That may not have happened to you, it may not have happened to me, but if I nonetheless had the power to stop either that or cheating, of course I'd put something like that, of course I'd put matters that do unfortunately sometimes evolve into matters of life and death, ahead if cheating, and don't get the deluge of "lol just mute" responses 'cause that's just missing so much if why toxicity is such a huge problem it's not even funny.
Most of these people don't care unless it affects them personally in some way. I appreciate your effort though man, hopefully it does get through to a few folks.

The problem with this logic is that as a minority that basically means I can't ever use voice chat with randoms unless I feel like being subjected to racist jokes. That basically says that function, that space is for those toxic players.
💯
 
Last edited:

LinkStrikesBack

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,351
Cheating.

But then I just don't play any online game with voice chat with randoms.

No chance of cheaters forever in mario kart/splatoon/souls/smash sounds great to me.
 

Renna Hazel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,558
Racism and sexism are why I don't affiliate myself with others in this hobby. I would end toxic behavior over cheating in a heart beat. I would have loved to partake in online communities more back in the day, but I wasn't going to put up with the disrespect.
 

Musubi

Unshakable Resolve - Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
23,611
What about toxicity in gaming communities, online forums, social media etc. ? The effects that has on people's lives? Those cases where someone may have commited suicide because they were struggling in real life and were now pushed over the edge because even in their safe space they were insulted and bullied?

Toxicity in gaming is far more than just in-game behavior and the Incel movement is one thing we can thank the platform we keep giving toxic players for. You may mute others or only play with friends, others do not do that and I'll just quote myself from earlier in this thread "Toxicity preys on those, which are already weak".
That's an entirely different question. My response is related to a in-game experience. Issues outside of just the in game experience opens a whole different can of worms.
 

PK Gaming

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,331
It's really sad that toxicity is winning over cheating. Most if not all games have mute or block functions. We can easily get out of toxicity but you can't stop a cheater

Yeah, because muting after being called a racial slur definitely takes the sting away

You can't stop toxicity, you can only ignore it. It still festers, and you're pretty much always on guard as a result