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If the Wii U was as powerful as Switch would things have very been different?
- Thread starter Soapbox Killer
- Start date
They honestly should have skipped the Wii U, put out an upgraded Wii that did HD and had much more built in storage in holiday 2010, capable of 720p would have been fine, then they could have just released the Switch in Spring 2015 instead. (That is when the Tegra X1 chip that powered the Switch was available). Wii HD could have really helped extend the life of the Wii, with Metroid Other M, Super Mario Galaxy 2, Donkey Kong Returns, Kirby's Epic Yarn, Xenoblade Chronicles, The Last Story, The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword, and Pandora's Tower benefiting from it. It could have received 3DS ports like Fire Emblem Awakening, New Super Mario Bros 2, Yoshi's New Island, Mario Golf: World Tour, the Zelda N64 remakes and whatever 3DS' 3rd parties would be interested in bringing over until the end of 2014.
The first party software lineup for Switch would have worked out pretty good, this is what it would have looked like up to this point:
2015
March: New Super Mario Bros 3 (U Deluxe) | 1 2 Switch
April: The Wonderful 101 | The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker
May: Splatoon
June: Lego City Undercover | Fire Emblem Fates
July: Hyrule Warriors
August: Wii Sports Club
September: Yoshi's Woolly World
October: Fatal Frame: Maiden of the Black Water
November: Super Mario 3D World
December: Xenoblade X
2015 System Sellers: Splatoon and Super Mario 3D World
Alternative Switch hardware sales LTD: 13 Million
2016
Jan: Wii Sports Club
Feb: NES Remix
March: Kirby Canvas Curse
April: Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze
May: Mario Kart 8
June: Mario & Sonic Rio Olympics
July: Captain Toad Treasure Tracker
August: Bayonetta 1&2
September: NES Classics
October: Super Mario Maker
November: The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild
December: Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE
2016 System Sellers: Mario Kart 8, Super Mario Maker and Breath of the Wild
Alternative Switch hardware sales: 17 Million
Sales LTD: 30 Million
2017
Jan: Kid Icarus Uprising remastered
Feb: SNES Remix (SNES remixes much like NES remix 1&2)
March: The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds remastered
April: Star Fox Zero
May: ARMS
June: Ever Oasis
July: Fire Emblem Warriors
August: Mario & Rabbids
September: SNES Classics | Metroid: Samus Returns
October: Super Mario Odyssey
November: Pokemon Stars (Ultra Sun & Ultra Moon)
December: Xenoblade 2
2017 System Sellers: Super Mario Odyssey and Pokemon Stars
Alternative Switch hardware sales: 18 Million
Sales LTD: 43 Million
2018
Jan: Celeste
Feb: Luigi's Mansion remastered
March: Kirby Star Allies
April: Nintendo Labo Toy-Con 01 & 02
May: Fire Emblem Awakening remastered
June: Super Mario Aces
July: Octopath Traveler
August: Go Vacation
September: Nintendo Labo Toy-Con 03
October: Super Mario Party | Luigi's Mansion 2 remastered
November: Pokemon Let's Go
December: Super Smash Brothers Ultimate (building off of SSB4 on 3DS, to hopefully get as close to the current version as possible)
2018 System Sellers: Super Mario Party, Pokemon Let's Go and Super Smash Brothers Ultimate
Alternative Switch hardware sales: 19 Million
Sales LTD: 63 Million
2019
Jan: Fitness Boxing | The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword remastered
Feb: Tetris 99
March: Yoshi's Crafted World
April: BoxBoy! + BoxGirl!
May: Labo VR
June: Splatoon 2
July: Fire Emblem: Three Houses
August: Astral Chain
September: Daemon X Machina | The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening remastered
October: Luigi's Mansion 3
November: Pokemon Sword & Pokemon Shield
December: ?
2015 System Sellers: Splatoon 2, Link's Awakening, and Pokemon Sword & Shield
Alternative Switch hardware sales: 20 Million
Sales LTD: 83 Million
2020
Jan: ?
Feb: ?
March: Animal Crossing: New Horizons
If Switch had launched 2 years earlier, 3rd party games would have came to the system a lot earlier, sales would be around double where they are now, and a next gen Switch would only be 2 years away, instead of ~4.
The first party software lineup for Switch would have worked out pretty good, this is what it would have looked like up to this point:
2015
March: New Super Mario Bros 3 (U Deluxe) | 1 2 Switch
April: The Wonderful 101 | The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker
May: Splatoon
June: Lego City Undercover | Fire Emblem Fates
July: Hyrule Warriors
August: Wii Sports Club
September: Yoshi's Woolly World
October: Fatal Frame: Maiden of the Black Water
November: Super Mario 3D World
December: Xenoblade X
2015 System Sellers: Splatoon and Super Mario 3D World
Alternative Switch hardware sales LTD: 13 Million
2016
Jan: Wii Sports Club
Feb: NES Remix
March: Kirby Canvas Curse
April: Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze
May: Mario Kart 8
June: Mario & Sonic Rio Olympics
July: Captain Toad Treasure Tracker
August: Bayonetta 1&2
September: NES Classics
October: Super Mario Maker
November: The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild
December: Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE
2016 System Sellers: Mario Kart 8, Super Mario Maker and Breath of the Wild
Alternative Switch hardware sales: 17 Million
Sales LTD: 30 Million
2017
Jan: Kid Icarus Uprising remastered
Feb: SNES Remix (SNES remixes much like NES remix 1&2)
March: The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds remastered
April: Star Fox Zero
May: ARMS
June: Ever Oasis
July: Fire Emblem Warriors
August: Mario & Rabbids
September: SNES Classics | Metroid: Samus Returns
October: Super Mario Odyssey
November: Pokemon Stars (Ultra Sun & Ultra Moon)
December: Xenoblade 2
2017 System Sellers: Super Mario Odyssey and Pokemon Stars
Alternative Switch hardware sales: 18 Million
Sales LTD: 43 Million
2018
Jan: Celeste
Feb: Luigi's Mansion remastered
March: Kirby Star Allies
April: Nintendo Labo Toy-Con 01 & 02
May: Fire Emblem Awakening remastered
June: Super Mario Aces
July: Octopath Traveler
August: Go Vacation
September: Nintendo Labo Toy-Con 03
October: Super Mario Party | Luigi's Mansion 2 remastered
November: Pokemon Let's Go
December: Super Smash Brothers Ultimate (building off of SSB4 on 3DS, to hopefully get as close to the current version as possible)
2018 System Sellers: Super Mario Party, Pokemon Let's Go and Super Smash Brothers Ultimate
Alternative Switch hardware sales: 19 Million
Sales LTD: 63 Million
2019
Jan: Fitness Boxing | The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword remastered
Feb: Tetris 99
March: Yoshi's Crafted World
April: BoxBoy! + BoxGirl!
May: Labo VR
June: Splatoon 2
July: Fire Emblem: Three Houses
August: Astral Chain
September: Daemon X Machina | The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening remastered
October: Luigi's Mansion 3
November: Pokemon Sword & Pokemon Shield
December: ?
2015 System Sellers: Splatoon 2, Link's Awakening, and Pokemon Sword & Shield
Alternative Switch hardware sales: 20 Million
Sales LTD: 83 Million
2020
Jan: ?
Feb: ?
March: Animal Crossing: New Horizons
If Switch had launched 2 years earlier, 3rd party games would have came to the system a lot earlier, sales would be around double where they are now, and a next gen Switch would only be 2 years away, instead of ~4.
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Better ports but it would have failed just the same. The success the Switch enjoys now is due to a clear concept people can understand thanks to marketing that targets everyone. Nintendo might have thought that to be the case with the Wii U, but it was downright repulsive in some ways to anyone who wasn't a family with young children.
I have heard from at least a dozen people around stores and family friends asking me if the Wii U was a Wii add-on. Wii U, for as much as I enjoyed it, was a bad product, no way around it. From the cringe-inducing dubstep commercials, very similar design profile as the Wii, price, and of course the name, I doubt even a name change would have provided it a second wind in sales because of all the other problems.
Still has the best internet browser on a console that I still use to this day, so there is that.
Still has the best internet browser on a console that I still use to this day, so there is that.
The Wii U had an OK launch but sales died after new year. It sold a disastrous 160K units in the entire world during that awful quarter of Spring 2013. When 3D World didn't move units I think Nintendo realized they were in deep trouble.
While it made good use of the Gamepad, SMM2 shows that it works just fine without it.
The Switch and the Wii U seem pretty similar in power. I know the Switch has more recent architecture, and on a balance it's more powerful, but the difference isn't major. The Switch might as well be a portable Wii U.
The Wii U's second quarter on the market saw a -30K unit change in europe because of returned stock. It never sold well.
The Wii U didn't need the power upgrade, the Wii did. Had Wii of been ~3x as powerful and supported 720p out of the box with 256MB DDR3 RAM instead of the 64MB GDDR3 it got, it would have been capable of getting many of the 3rd party ports from the day and could have easily extended it's life 2 more years, fitting the gap until Switch was possible with the Tegra X1 Spring launch.
The Switch is about twice as powerful when portable and about 3.5x as powerful when docked. It also has about 3 times the RAM, and a much faster quad core CPU vs the tricore late 90s IBM G3 based CPU found in Wii U. Lastly for comparison, Wii U's ram bandwidth is vastly superior thanks to it's T1SRAM, the actual system memory is slow, with 12.8GB/s which is less than half the bandwidth found in Switch memory, but that 35MB of T1SRAM memory bandwidth is 10 to 20 times faster than what is found in the Switch.
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Yup. That first reveal was such a blunder. I remember at gaf everyone being confused and wondering if it was a tablet add on?
The public was a huge part of the Wii's audience, so the name confused them and the big lack of third-party games alienated a lot of gamers that jumped off of the Wii after a few years.
Other way around. If it had been a Switch with Wii U specs it would have been a fantastic success.
But, then again, the name never really helped matters. Calling it Wii 2 would've been enough to improve its initial situation.
But, then again, the name never really helped matters. Calling it Wii 2 would've been enough to improve its initial situation.
No it isn't, Wii U's GPU is based on AMD's 4xxx series, 2009 GPU vs 2015 GPU. Bayonetta and BOTW where quick ports. If you want to talk about ports look at Fast RMX or Mario Kart 8 which blows away the original Wii U version.
No.
The way I generally conceptualise the issues that the Wii U had is that it was a like someone trapped under a large pile of heavy rocks.
Removing one rock helps, but does not solve the problem. The Wii U is still trapped under a pile of heavy rocks, there's just 19 of them now, rather than 20.
If we up the power of the Wii U to Switch levels (without making any other changes, so what we're doing is having twice as much RAM, upclocking some PowerPC cores, and picking a somewhat less ridiculous GPU), then we sort of solve one problem. At that point, we have a console that will visibly outperform the PS3 and Xbox 360. Not by much, and there'll probably still be some games that are basically identical, but instead of PS3/360 ports running at 720p (with framerate issues), they'll probably run at 1080p (with framerate issues).
Very few people are going to be interested in the Wii U for a power bump though. The PS4 will still be announced a few months after the Wii U gets released. It will still be a huge leap over the Switch-level Wii U. Nobody will be in any doubt that they can get a more powerful console by waiting. Shuhei Yoshida still gets a Tweet from someone saying their friend thinks the Wii U will be more powerful than the PS4, and still answers "let him dream".
Firstly, how many of "us" do you think there are?
Resetera, for example, has less than 50,000 members and some of those will be duplicates. Assuming that Nintendo were aiming at the Wii player base, that audience is about two thousand times larger than this site's membership and (for the most part) massively less engaged with games news. Nintendo reaching us would have gotten them through the easiest 0.05% of their information campaign.
Secondly, one problem with the Wii U marketing (of several) isn't that people were confused. The people with the wrong idea about the Wii U weren't confused about what the Wii U was. They knew that it was a Wii tablet add-on thing that they weren't interested in. They were wrong, of course, but that didn't change their certainty. Any marketing that they saw did not confuse them or correct them, it just added to their perception of the Wii U as a device that didn't interest them.
No, that'd have failed too, and probably would have muddled up Nintendo's handheld market a bit.
The way I generally conceptualise the issues that the Wii U had is that it was a like someone trapped under a large pile of heavy rocks.
Removing one rock helps, but does not solve the problem. The Wii U is still trapped under a pile of heavy rocks, there's just 19 of them now, rather than 20.
If we up the power of the Wii U to Switch levels (without making any other changes, so what we're doing is having twice as much RAM, upclocking some PowerPC cores, and picking a somewhat less ridiculous GPU), then we sort of solve one problem. At that point, we have a console that will visibly outperform the PS3 and Xbox 360. Not by much, and there'll probably still be some games that are basically identical, but instead of PS3/360 ports running at 720p (with framerate issues), they'll probably run at 1080p (with framerate issues).
Very few people are going to be interested in the Wii U for a power bump though. The PS4 will still be announced a few months after the Wii U gets released. It will still be a huge leap over the Switch-level Wii U. Nobody will be in any doubt that they can get a more powerful console by waiting. Shuhei Yoshida still gets a Tweet from someone saying their friend thinks the Wii U will be more powerful than the PS4, and still answers "let him dream".
There's a few moving parts to this argument.
Firstly, how many of "us" do you think there are?
Resetera, for example, has less than 50,000 members and some of those will be duplicates. Assuming that Nintendo were aiming at the Wii player base, that audience is about two thousand times larger than this site's membership and (for the most part) massively less engaged with games news. Nintendo reaching us would have gotten them through the easiest 0.05% of their information campaign.
Secondly, one problem with the Wii U marketing (of several) isn't that people were confused. The people with the wrong idea about the Wii U weren't confused about what the Wii U was. They knew that it was a Wii tablet add-on thing that they weren't interested in. They were wrong, of course, but that didn't change their certainty. Any marketing that they saw did not confuse them or correct them, it just added to their perception of the Wii U as a device that didn't interest them.
Technically no, but this is still a pretty fair assessment. The games that would have released on a Switch-level Wii U probably would not be significantly more technically impressive than the games that released on the real Wii U.
Some people did think that, but this is still a really good point, because for anyone who got over the misunderstanding of the Wii U, that still didn't push them any closer towards buying it - there were still lots of other reasons why it was largely unappealing.
Like...a physically unaltered GamePad?
No, that'd have failed too, and probably would have muddled up Nintendo's handheld market a bit.
It's an interesting idea. The Wii was pretty clearly running on fumes in 2011 though, so I'm not sure it could have sustained interest until 2015, even with a HD revision. Without the Wii U, it'd have more software support, so that'd be a plus, but I think it'd still have been in decline for those additional years, would struggle with third party support, and would look quite outdated next to the PS4 and Xbox One.
Power was the least of that system's problems.
It was a complete disaster on all fronts. Marketing, software, the entire concept itself.
The wireless range was abysmal. I had issues with the gamepad 6–8 ft away from the console in the same room with direct line-of-sight.
The video feed on the gamepad was low resolution and obviously compressed.
I know a lot of people who never touch handheld systems, but buy every home console. With the Switch being a hybrid device, it's now converted them to loving portable gaming - and that shift means they want to buy everything on the Switch so they can play it on a commute or around the house but not on a TV.
Of course it also attracted people interested in handheld systems to begin with too - though I'd argue that it's not until the Lite and the new revision with better battery life that the system has been a good choice for them. The original Switch was far too big, and the battery life too poor, to replace my 3DS. It's unfortunate that the Lite doesn't have TV out support though.
It was a complete disaster on all fronts. Marketing, software, the entire concept itself.
It didn't even do what it was supposed to do very well.
The wireless range was abysmal. I had issues with the gamepad 6–8 ft away from the console in the same room with direct line-of-sight.
The video feed on the gamepad was low resolution and obviously compressed.
I think that's the reason why the Switch has such good software sales, but that alone is not the reason for the success of the system.
I know a lot of people who never touch handheld systems, but buy every home console. With the Switch being a hybrid device, it's now converted them to loving portable gaming - and that shift means they want to buy everything on the Switch so they can play it on a commute or around the house but not on a TV.
Of course it also attracted people interested in handheld systems to begin with too - though I'd argue that it's not until the Lite and the new revision with better battery life that the system has been a good choice for them. The original Switch was far too big, and the battery life too poor, to replace my 3DS. It's unfortunate that the Lite doesn't have TV out support though.
Wii U was pointless. You couldn't market this thing even if you hired the best. And it lacked system sellers for its most critical period.
I actually got stick drift in the first year of use. After replacing it through warranty, it worked all right to this day.
I've got a product presentation somewhere from a known gaming accessory company that shows products that in no way would have worked becuse they thought the Wii U was just a gaming iPad. This was shown to me post E3 WiiU reveal so there clearly was poor messaging on Nintendos part.
The way I see it, it lasted until the end of 2012... The main reason for the decline though was the announcement of the Wii U in Spring 2011, as well as the fall off of releases for the system, but this didn't have to be the case. 2010 was still a strong year for the Wii, still in decline obviously, but had they of released a "Wii Pro" that could have done HD that holiday, they still had 2 years of titles coming at that point and they could have shared some of 3DS' library in it's early years. It also would have been a much bigger boon for 3DS, since Nintendo would not have needed to gear up for a Wii U software launch, 3DS would have been stronger out of the gate.
As for the PS4 and XB1's presence, it wouldn't have existed until Wii's final year. Those consoles launched at the end of 2013, and plenty of Nintendo platforms have had poor final years, but with the 3DS there, they could have just brought a lot of games over, playing stuff like A Link Between Worlds would have been a good thing to pop up in those final 12 months, and could have helped Nintendo make the transition to the new hybrid single platform much easier.
EDIT: Just an idea, but they could have even added the Wii U Tablet interface with the Wii Pro and 3DS, they could have launched both devices holiday 2010 and made their relationship apparent, heck they could have even released Nintendoland for it. I think the big problem with the Wii U was that the tethered idea was always a bad one, one that really only distracted the player from actually playing the games. The only real advancement the Wii U gamepad brought about was Asynchronous gaming, but there is only a handful of examples for a mainstream device that was on the market without a successor for 4 and a half years is a bit much.
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I agree so much. You have no idea how many times I have heard people sighing when they wanted to play a Wii U game just to realize they have to hook up and turn on the Wii U again. It was simply an undesirable product.
The WiiU was a Frankenstein monster - they took the disadvantage of a handheld (the power) and the disadvantage of a home console (not mobile, needs a power socket) and put it together. It would still have failed with Switch power, because neither of these disadvantages would have disappeared.
These are all really good points (I think the PS4's presence would be felt for the last two full years of the Wii's extended lifetime, rather than just one, but that's a small quibble). I'm still not fully convinced that this would be the best route for Nintendo, but you're making a persuasive case. I am at least sure that it'd work out better than the Wii U.
No. The Wii U was a piece of crap. Power had nothing to do with it. The Gamepad had more pointless features on it than minutes of battery life. The name was horrible, the marketing was horrible. Everything about it was horrible.
It needed better and ambitious first party games that didn't feel derivative of what people already owned on the Wii and 3DS. The insane software droughts were a problem as well. Wii U was a dust collector for months on end.
Nintendo had no idea what they were doing.
It needed better and ambitious first party games that didn't feel derivative of what people already owned on the Wii and 3DS. The insane software droughts were a problem as well. Wii U was a dust collector for months on end.
Nintendo had no idea what they were doing.
Not really, but if the wii u launched with breath of the wild and mario odyssey in the first year than that would have made a big difference
Well I'm not sure about PS4 hurting Wii in 2013 until that holiday, it really depends on what Nintendo brings over from the 3DS and how it is marketed, the price of a Wii at the time could be so low that it would never really be in competition with the PS4, and in 2014 Switch would be a much bigger deal to the Wii's market than the PS4, simply because its the Wii's successor.
It would work out better than the Wii U as you say, and it would have improved the 3DS' first 4 years as well, 3DS largely had a drought in 2011 because Nintendo was making games for the Wii U, when Nintendo saw the 3DS failing in the first few months, they threw a lot of resources at it, which caused the Wii U to launch with a drought that ultimately killed any momentum and turned the fated device into it's iconic failure that it is. We can see this clearly in 2013 when 3DS had it's best software year IMO, while Wii U maintained a drought never seen on a Nintendo platform before or since.
Finally, launching the Switch in 2015 would have been a huge success, it would be a much more relevant platform this generation from 3rd parties. It also wouldn't have followed such a horrible failure from the Wii U, helping convince a lot of 3rd parties to bring their games over a lot sooner. Switch would also have a larger install base today, something around twice as much, of course Switch in 2 years might also have that same market size, but having it during the PS4/XB1's life would have helped position the future successor to the Switch, as that platform could come 2 years sooner, keeping it more in step with it's competition, which might not sound like a big deal since Nintendo does it's own thing, but when 3rd parties plan their multiplatform games, Switch and it's successor would have been in their minds a lot sooner and that would help them build a generation that is more friendly to those platforms.
Of course the best answer would have been if the Wii had just started as a Wii Pro, going 8 years would not have been a hard sale for a Wii capable of running stripped down PS360 ports, alongside the Wii's crazy success, but that sort of market reading is beyond me, you'd have to change the entire makeup of the market, PS3 would likely have never been given a chance to recover... Just too much changes.
Game journalists covering the Wii U reveal were even confused at what it was.
Wii U had so many issues and power is probably one of the least important.
Also, IMHO the biggest problem of Nintendo's "Wii gen" was aiming for the non-gamers and releasing which was basically a GameCube Slim with Wiimotes. It worked extremely well for a bunch of years but we all know how it ended.
They got cocky and thought they could keep pulling underpowered systems (which I think is great from a profits point of view) with an all new gimmick and that the non-gamers/soccer moms and so on would buy them.
Though, I also think marketing was ABYSMAL. While the concept was not that interesting, an strong marketing campaign along with a better name would have made for some notable differences in sales and reception.
I still can't believe they went for the Wii U name. It doesn't make any sense. Wii HD would've been a way better name, heck, any other name that doesn't have anything to do with "Wii" would've worked perfectly.
You wanted a short and punchy name? Call it THE NINTENDO HD. And that's it.
Wii U... My god, what the hell were you thinking nintendo? 😅
Also, IMHO the biggest problem of Nintendo's "Wii gen" was aiming for the non-gamers and releasing which was basically a GameCube Slim with Wiimotes. It worked extremely well for a bunch of years but we all know how it ended.
They got cocky and thought they could keep pulling underpowered systems (which I think is great from a profits point of view) with an all new gimmick and that the non-gamers/soccer moms and so on would buy them.
Though, I also think marketing was ABYSMAL. While the concept was not that interesting, an strong marketing campaign along with a better name would have made for some notable differences in sales and reception.
I still can't believe they went for the Wii U name. It doesn't make any sense. Wii HD would've been a way better name, heck, any other name that doesn't have anything to do with "Wii" would've worked perfectly.
You wanted a short and punchy name? Call it THE NINTENDO HD. And that's it.
Wii U... My god, what the hell were you thinking nintendo? 😅
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Any gaming journalists that was confused by the Wii U reveal should be demoted and tested. That shit was not that hard to figure out for a gamer but if it was / is your job to know these things then I would assume they are no longer in that position.
I remember right after the E3 conference reveal, I believe it was Adam Sessler (I could be wrong with that) who asked Reggie "this is a brand new console, right?" or something to that effect. As for myself, I knew it was a new console after the reveal trailer for it but I did think the whole way they were talking about it was weird as fuck. It was all "the new controller, the new controller, the new controller" and never "the new console". I think the actual physical console only had like a second long appearance in the trailer.
It was horrible. Nintendo fucked up and they knew they fucked up. If the gaming community was at best bewildered by it, I can't imagine how mainstream audiences took it.
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It was G4TV/ Spike e3 coverage(I was watching it live too) and you are right it was Adam Sessler and as much as I like him, to be that clueless was unexcusable for a guy of his standing.
Nope, the power only one of the Wii U's myriad of problems.
Bad branding, marketing, launch period, software release cycle, etc.
It was a mess on all fronts.
Bad branding, marketing, launch period, software release cycle, etc.
It was a mess on all fronts.
Nobody on a gaming forum was confused, but we're a small amount of sales. The masses were confused as all hell
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The Wii U wouldve been more successful if it was anything but the Wii U.
Its hard to even fix it because its bad from the get go.
Its hard to even fix it because its bad from the get go.