How so? I frequent this forum and I'll play on Stadia on day one.
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If Stadia and/or xCloud truly works why would I play on a console or PC going forward?
- Thread starter Parenegade
- Start date
How so? I frequent this forum and I'll play on Stadia on day one.
I think the only reason why streaming won't be the future just yet it's because people like their toys too much.
Game companies set up servers in like, 3 places in North America. If you are part of the 50%+ population that lives more than 80-100ms away (by network speed), then you can't use these services. And while network lag is annoying, games can combat it by doing some calculations locally. But with input lag, there is nothing that can be done.
So this type of thing won't work unless every major city (200+ locations) in North American have servers running these games.
"So let's assume impossible things are possible..." is quite a way of starting a conversation lmao
That doesn't mean you are the ideal target audience. Those services are after the gamer that doesn't want to pay for latest hardware.
Really nothing. If Google and MS can actually fulfill the promise of streaming then it will take over much like it had for movies and TV. There will still be an audience for consoles for enthusiasts, much like Blu-Ray/UHD, and will provide the most consistent and high quality visuals, but most people will just stream.
How do you know so much about me?!?!?! : )
I constantly buy consoles on day one and then have little time to actually use them to justify the money spent. I widdeled down to just PS4 this gen after getting rid of my XB1, WiiU and Nintendo DS.
Stadia will be the perfect buffer. It generally takes a year or 2 before developers are comfortable with the console environment to make really killer games and by then the price of them probably be cheaper
hey remember when Sony was hacked and PSN was down for 23 days straight?
Imagine what happens when something similar happens a second time and every game you own is streamed via stadia.
but do you always have all your games installed? Good luck redownloading them if the internet is down for some time.
You might not have data caps, but others do. Plus, streaming games, even with your assumptions, requires an internet connection, and not everyone has one, let alone one that's consistently stable. A local console or a PC wouldn't suffer from those issues, or things like too many people logging on at the same time (this happened with Sim City 2013), or the servers being down (as mentioned by someone else PSN is down atm), or having other ISP-related issues.
The casuals are playing cod and fortnite once they see the disadvantage they face due latency and that they can get an advantage by not streaming they will run the other way.
What's funny is stadia is stronger than any console or pc, that makes me feel like it's made for more than casuals
Casuals don't care about graphics
I don't understand this argument. You dismiss the largest arguments against streaming only consoles and then want to know why people wouldn't want Stadia? I mean you just eliminated the biggest arguments.
But also keep in mind if you go all streaming you will never own a video game, technically, again. Even if you pay full price for a game to play on Stadia, the day Stadia closes it's servers or goes under that game goes with it. We haven't really been involved in the digital age to see this sort of thing happen yet. But we already see game servers being close, and titles being pulled from stores regardless of if you paid for that item already.
Ask anyone who bought a Telltale title in the last ten years that can't play the games they bought anymore.
But also keep in mind if you go all streaming you will never own a video game, technically, again. Even if you pay full price for a game to play on Stadia, the day Stadia closes it's servers or goes under that game goes with it. We haven't really been involved in the digital age to see this sort of thing happen yet. But we already see game servers being close, and titles being pulled from stores regardless of if you paid for that item already.
Ask anyone who bought a Telltale title in the last ten years that can't play the games they bought anymore.
My (personal) experience is the opposite.
Older gamers have more disposable income, but don't really care all that much about playing the latest games at release. Consoles are bought 2-3 years in, not at launch, so $249-300 or so at most. The investment is more than worth it because consoles double as media boxes (DVD/BRD/Netflix/Amazon Video/HBO/Spotify) so the investment is more than worth it outside of "just games."
Extra controllers are pointless if you don't game much- they're not really prone to breaking. There's no shortage of interesting games clogging the shelves at best buy or amazon for $19.99 new.
You'll take that $19.99 game and spend 5 or 6 months working your way through it, because game time is at a premium.
If you're not gaming very much, a recurring bill of $9.99 a month for Stadia makes very little sense.
edit: My wife is even worse about this than I am. She's only interested in playing ONE game. It's a PS3 game she's been playing since 2009, she'll play for a couple hours a week, and has no interest in anything else. She WILL use the PS3 and PS4 as media boxes though.
I'm a big proponent of streaming. I do a ton of local and remote streaming using Steam/GeForceNow already. I think it'll take off in a major way, more so than most of this forum. However, even given your 3 assumptions, I probably won't fully dive into something like Stadia because of the economics. A huge selling point of Stadia (and xCloud once it really matures) is that you don't need to buy hardware, just pay the monthly fee. That's a great thing for a lot of people. They either can't afford the full upfront cost or only play games now and then. I'm neither of those. I can afford the hardware, and I play enough that I don't want to pay a monthly fee which will likely outpace the cost of the local hardware over time.
I have full up/down gigabit fiber at my house with no cap, so remote play running off my own hardware is my plan now and going forward.
I have full up/down gigabit fiber at my house with no cap, so remote play running off my own hardware is my plan now and going forward.
Actually online games like Fortnight will shine on the streaming services, because latency is already inherent in the gameplay. I would imagine that is the market these game companies are after.
There are plenty of PC's that are way stronger. Its very easy to top Stadia's first generation Hardware but you obviously have to pay way more.
I really disagree with this. I'm definitely lucky because I live in central Texas which is where apparently GeforceNow runs from, but my added latency is 4ms. That is not perceptible to humans. There's probably more latency in the Bluetooth stack running on my Shield than the wired latency to their data center.
Exhibit B would have to be the video stream performance for every Stadia video so far.
Don't forget stadia servers can stack, I don't know very many PCs with 32 teraflops, except 3,000 - 4,000$ ones
Exactly how I feel.
Now the thing I love about Stadia/xCloud is the ability to play any game on any shitty laptop - making the need for a 'gaming laptop' redundant (which generally are overpriced to hell and back).
But I will stick to my physical copies and complete ownership of my content.
People can complain all they want about digital but the future is going to bring us down that path one way or another. I used to feel this way about music and movies but I too have seen the light when it comes to the freedoms an all-digital world provides. I no longer want to have 50 game boxes or 50 movie cases sitting on my shelf, nor do I want to store them all either. To be completely honest, I rarely ever go back to playing older stuff as it is. Occasionally, yes. But actively pulling out my Master System to play Phantasy Star is not a thing. And for many reasons aside from not wanting to damage the stuff. I know some loathe the concept of all digital but I for one do not. My phone has taught me otherwise.
Phil Spencer straight up said for years to come the best quality experience at home on a big screen will be local hardware not a cloud stream.
He ain't lying.
He ain't lying.
OP
OP
I would say more often than not I'm playing with friends or playing a game that relies on an internet connection. Really doesn't matter for me. More and more games are becoming best online as well. This is very dependant on the type of gamer you are and as SP focused forum I know I'm in the minority on Era. Still I don't think of this as a major issue.
eh...not on board with the movie argument. Netflix is notorious for losing or pulling content constantly. If you're interested in seeing a movie on your terms ESPECIALLY if it's a cult/arthouse film, the best call is still a physical copy- especially since most of those come with digital copies anyway.
imagine for a second the shitstorm that would have resulted if instead of just "no PSN" for nearly a month, everyone with a PS3 completely lost access to all of their games entirely. Singleplayer, Multiplayer, Singleplayer with multiplayer modes attached- all gone.
I don't think the brand would have come back from that, honestly- and I LIKE Sony.
edit: hell, we don't even need to look at the 2011 Sony hack. Every couple of days it seems like someone's passwords get compromised, or they get banned from PSN/Live for crazy reasons like charging back a purchase. Having your ENTIRE gaming library be at the whim of someone else that can say "nah, son- it's gone" arbitrarily is not a scenario I'm interested in.
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Streaming isn't my gaming future, VR is the only thing that truly excites me these days and gives me wow moments, And Stadia aren't doing anything in that regard. I'm all for brand new ways to play games though, Just would feel proper weird buying a £50 game on a streaming service where theres a good chance it will artifact, Cutout and lag and have latency issues where i cant even mod the game or lend it to anyone or use account sharing which i have done for all of this gen.
50ms is my best. Is that good?To point #1 you really should be looking at this:
Your download speed doesn't determine the input lag you'll feel.
I was playing Wreckfest over Geforce Now tonight. Couldn't discern any lag (though I'm not that picky a gamer) though the framerate did drop here and there. Hard to tell if it was network issues or 22 cars all physics-ing together at once and nailing the GPU. Still, really impressive, and a way better experience than my ageing rig with its slow spinny-disk HDD (the loading times in that game are brutal!)
As for Stadia? I've pre-ordered, because why not really. Might as well give it a go. I'm becoming more and more of a casual gamer, who doesn't want piles of hardware under his telly, and the whole mid-gen upgrade that happened this console cycle really killed my interest in trying to stay in the race, so screw it. If my internet goes out I'll read a book or paint some model figures. Videogames aren't the only show in town.
Only downside I can see is if a game you really loved disappears from the service. There are a few old games I like to go back to all the time via emulation. Would be a bummer if stuff like that were to disappear forever and there was nothing anyone could do to preserve them.
In home streaming would be like 5-15ms
If I remember correctly, 24ms is around 1 frame of input lag at 60fps.
This is a good post and most of these are reasons enough for me to not be thrilled about this streaming future.
People are basically assuming that at every level of the pipeline, things will be comparable to local hardware.
If I want to play a single player game on a console, the only thing I'm relying on is the consistency of the console and my TV. Consoles are built standardized so that the experience is consistent across the platform. I know if I own a Playstation or Xbox or Nintendo system, I am getting the experience everyone else is getting as the developers designed it.
If I want to play a single player game on Stadia, I'm relying on the consistency of my ISP, their hardware, my modem, my router, my distance to their rendering farm, etc. I'm reliant on a consistent, reliable bandwidth allocation without any variations in packet loss, ping response, etc. I'm relying on hardware I have no control over, hardware that is shared across entire neighborhoods.
To expect the same level of consistency in these two cases is just crazy to me.
If I want to play a single player game on a console, the only thing I'm relying on is the consistency of the console and my TV. Consoles are built standardized so that the experience is consistent across the platform. I know if I own a Playstation or Xbox or Nintendo system, I am getting the experience everyone else is getting as the developers designed it.
If I want to play a single player game on Stadia, I'm relying on the consistency of my ISP, their hardware, my modem, my router, my distance to their rendering farm, etc. I'm reliant on a consistent, reliable bandwidth allocation without any variations in packet loss, ping response, etc. I'm relying on hardware I have no control over, hardware that is shared across entire neighborhoods.
To expect the same level of consistency in these two cases is just crazy to me.
For casuals that only play Call of Duty and FIFA this could definitely replace consoles.
There will always be a market for dedicated hardware, the question is IF this works (big if) will it cut into the sales of traditional consoles and PC and if so how much?
There will always be a market for dedicated hardware, the question is IF this works (big if) will it cut into the sales of traditional consoles and PC and if so how much?
Stadia supports crossplay, but ofc it is upon devs to implement it. Luke Smith has said that crossplay is in their future Destiny 2 plans, but we should not expect it anytime soon.
Why do you need approval or even reasoning behind such a decision. The beauty of it is that your decision is what is right for you. I personally prefer dedicated hardware, but that's my preference.
ok but then you disagree with it for yourself, because you're in a prime location for it to function as advertised
People always miss the absolute killer. Even if you are the non-existent demographic with hot shit internet, interest in high end gaming but no console or pc you need to consider:
1. You live in a house with other people, including yourself, who like to use the internet for downloading files, watching shows or just general browsing.
Think about it. How the fuck would you play a game like red dead redemption 2? You are riding along, realising you are going to spend the next 10 minutes doing absolutely fuck all like an idiot. You reach for your phone ... but nope you can't use bandwidth so what are you going to do? Well all you can do is sit there and watch a horses ass as you grow older and hurtle towards an inevitable death.
The more connected you are, the less streaming works. It is not the future.
1. You live in a house with other people, including yourself, who like to use the internet for downloading files, watching shows or just general browsing.
Think about it. How the fuck would you play a game like red dead redemption 2? You are riding along, realising you are going to spend the next 10 minutes doing absolutely fuck all like an idiot. You reach for your phone ... but nope you can't use bandwidth so what are you going to do? Well all you can do is sit there and watch a horses ass as you grow older and hurtle towards an inevitable death.
The more connected you are, the less streaming works. It is not the future.