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Is the Open Critic / Meta Critic top 6 list better than the TGA GOTY nominations?

  • Yes - I like this one better

    Votes: 597 62.5%
  • No - I like the TGA's nominations better

    Votes: 358 37.5%

  • Total voters
    955

MegaSackman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,729
Argentina
I wonder if that's because this industry is more openly international, whereas DICE sticks closer to the Western, US-based canon employed by the Oscars. As an example, let's say a regular moviegoer might not see anything but Hollywood films for a whole year, with the rare exception of a foreign movie. However, that same description would be an unusual sight in gaming, where Japanese, European and global indie companies are essential to the market. If an association meant to represent the whole industry, doesn't give due credit to a considerable part of it, it runs the risk of becoming irrelevant. I think DICE might have suffered a bit of this: only two Non-American GOTYs in more than twenty editions.

You're probably right, and on top of that in gaming for as much attention The Game Awards gets, the enthusiastic gamers value the count of all different award publications to somehow decide the overall game of the year. That doesn't happen in movies where the Oscars feels like a culmination of all things.
 

Deleted member 46948

Account closed at user request
Banned
Aug 22, 2018
8,852
I guess it just depends on what you mean by "rate". I really couldn't trust someone who was reviewing DS if they only put in 10 hours with it. Because again it really doesn't open up and change the longer you stick with it. But at the same time, if a poster here said, 'Hey, I put in 10 hours and I just didn't like it', that's totally fine. It's a long game and certainly not for everyone, so I can understand why someone would check out at 10 hours or even before then. There are a lot of games out there so if you aren't having fun with one then there's no sense in you sticking with it.

Oh yeah, definitely. If reviewing games is my job, I'm going to finish (if possible) the game before rating it. It's what I'm paid to do.
On the other hand, if I'm a consumer and I'm paying money for a game to entertain me and it doesn't, I think I'm well within my rights to drop it and badmouth it on discussion forums :P
 

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,500
It isn't getting any post launch support and just way less of what mm1 was.

Even though SMM1 was nominated at TGA in 2015 (which was well deserved) the game was by far a worse product at launch than SMM2.

Like as someone who played 320 hours of SMM1 and has eclipsed 400 hours of SMM2 already, the sequel is by far a superior product. The only plainly obvious ommisions are mystery costumes (I do miss these a lot) and the bookmark site (which I also miss). The bookmark site came out a long ass time after the game launched.

People forget what SMM1 was like at launch. The post launch support for SMM2 has sucked though. 1 big update and a level limit increase is not enough.
 
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Mr.Deadshot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,285
Any list without Death Stranding is trash, so no ;-)

It's also really sad when the fifths or even further game in a franchise or remakes make the list. It shows how uninventive the whole industry is at the moment. Neither DMC5 nor Smash Bros. nor REmake 2 or Zelda should make a GOTY list. All these games were done before, in some cases even better. Fire Emblem seems legit because it changes enough to feel somewhat fresh. Contrary to Mario Maker 2 which feels more like an addon/enhanced port than a true sequel.

I am fine with games like Sekiro, Asgard's Wrath, Astral Chain and Disco Elysium making the list though. These games bring new things to the table. These are the games that should be celebrated.
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,661
Any list without Death Stranding is trash, so no ;-)

It's also really sad when the fifths or even further game in a franchise or remakes make the list. It shows how uninventive the whole industry is at the moment. Neither DMC5 nor Smash Bros. nor REmake 2 or Zelda should make a GOTY list. All these games were done before, in some cases even better. Fire Emblem seems legit because it changes enough to feel somewhat fresh. Contrary to Mario Maker 2 which feels more like an addon/enhanced port than a true sequel.

I am fine with games like Sekiro, Asgard's Wrath, Astral Chain and Disco Elysium making the list though. These games bring new things to the table. These are the games that should be celebrated.
What? What makes fire emblem different to the other ones?
 

Pancracio17

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
18,754
Is this because Mario Maker 2 is a sequel? If this was Mario Maker 1 would your opinion change?
Yes, but not only because of that. its because it doesnt have any "outstanding" traits, I understand this is super subjective but let me explain.

DMCV is also a sequel, the 6th game in its franchise, but the one aspect that it does well it does outstandingly well comparatively to the rest of the industry. It set out to make an experience built around its combat and it was outstandingly good at it. While Mario Maker certainly is unique, I dont feel like its that outstanding in its niche. Its just "good" at what it does, while DMCV is best in the industry by a long shot. Smash is in a similar position too, its just more Smash, but Smash is went above and beyond at doing what it had to do and so it deserved its goty nomination.
 

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,500
Yes, but not only because of that. its because it doesnt have any "outstanding" traits, I understand this is super subjective but let me explain.

DMCV is also a sequel, the 6th game in its franchise, but the one aspect that it does well it does outstandingly well comparatively to the rest of the industry. It set out to make an experience built around its combat and it was outstandingly good at it. While Mario Maker certainly is unique, I dont feel like its that outstanding in its niche. Its just "good" at what it does, while DMCV is best in the industry by a long shot. Smash is in a similar position too, its just more Smash, but Smash is went above and beyond at doing what it had to do and so it deserved its goty nomination.

:/

Not really going to battle you on the merits of DMC5 because eh, whatever.

However the original SMM is widely regarded as the best, most intuitive and user friendly creation editor by a long shot. The whole frame work of SMM1 was miles ahead of other games in terms of time and ease it takes to build a level, test it, upload it all wrapped in the frame work of a toolkit that used one of the best platforming series as a starting point.

Can't possibly understand how you can put DMC5 on a pedestal while games like Bayonetta, Ninja Gaiden Black and even DMC3 or 4 exist but say Mario Maker doesnt stand out in its genre. None sense.
 
Oct 26, 2017
9,827
Any list without Death Stranding is trash, so no ;-)

It's also really sad when the fifths or even further game in a franchise or remakes make the list. It shows how uninventive the whole industry is at the moment. Neither DMC5 nor Smash Bros. nor REmake 2 or Zelda should make a GOTY list. All these games were done before, in some cases even better. Fire Emblem seems legit because it changes enough to feel somewhat fresh. Contrary to Mario Maker 2 which feels more like an addon/enhanced port than a true sequel.

I am fine with games like Sekiro, Asgard's Wrath, Astral Chain and Disco Elysium making the list though. These games bring new things to the table. These are the games that should be celebrated.
Does this mean that The Last of Us 2 also shouldn't make the GotY list next year?

The bigger focus on social interaction between the battles.
That was already a thing with previous Fire Emblem games, like Awakening, albeit Three Houses does it much better. Three Houses is more of a refinement and mixture of older and newer Fire Emblem games than something that's necessarily entirely new
 

Mr.Deadshot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,285
Does this mean that The Last of Us 2 also shouldn't make the GotY list next year?
Is The Last of Us 2 the fifths sequel in a franchise?
That was already a thing with previous Fire Emblem games, like Awakening, albeit Three Houses does it much better. Three Houses is more of a refinement and mixture of older and newer Fire Emblem games than something that's necessarily entirely new
Well, then cross this from the list, too. I didn't play it yet. What I saw and what I played from the older games it felt like a big improvement/change so at least they tried to make something fresh and more unique inside the franchise.
 
Oct 26, 2017
9,827
Is The Last of Us 2 the fifths sequel in a franchise?

Well, then cross this from the list, too. I didn't play it yet. What I saw and what I played from the older games it felt like a big improvement/change so at least they tried to make something fresh and more unique inside the franchise.
Does it matter? It'll still be an iterative game from the last one and yet another cinematic and narrative driven game from Naughty Dog

It's definitely my favorite of the bunch and it has unique elements to it for sure but its fundamentally the same game
 

Noel

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
147
Connecticut
My personal GotY would be Fire Emblem followed by Slay the Spire. While I would personally much prefer the Open Critic list for this reason personally, I don't think review scores should be the be all end all source when it comes to deciding GotY.
 

Mr.Deadshot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,285
Does it matter? It'll still be an iterative game from the last one and yet another cinematic and narrative driven game from Naughty Dog

It's definitely my favorite of the bunch and it has unique elements to it for sure but its fundamentally the same game
I think it does matter, at least with the listed games. Devil May Cry 5 is a fine game, but it's not as good as Devil May Cry 3. It also lacks a good story and something like level-design. It's all same-looking corridors all the time. All this has been done better in previous games. Smash Bros sure is a big package overall, but it still feels like good ol' Smash Bros. There is nothing "special" about that game anymore. Mario Maker 2 like I said feels like an enhanced port/addon rather than a full game. Zelda has prettier graphics now but it's fundamentally the same game we had 25 years ago. Don't get me wrong, all these games are good or even great. But fresh concepts done right should be celebrated to encourage developers to try new things.
 

plagiarize

Eating crackers
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
27,539
Cape Cod, MA
I'll take the list with Death Stranding and Control on it, thanks. And RE2 is probably the second best thing I've played this year.
 
Oct 26, 2017
9,827
I think it does matter, at least with the listed games. Devil May Cry 5 is a fine game, but it's not as good as Devil May Cry 3. It also lacks a good story and something like level-design. It's all same-looking corridors all the time. All this has been done better in previous games. Smash Bros sure is a big package overall, but it still feels like good ol' Smash Bros. There is nothing "special" about that game anymore. Mario Maker 2 like I said feels like an enhanced port/addon rather than a full game. Zelda has prettier graphics now but it's fundamentally the same game we had 25 years ago. Don't get me wrong, all these games are good or even great. But fresh concepts done right should be celebrated to encourage developers to try new things.
I don't disagree about celebrating fresh concepts. It's just that, within the game industry, even new IPs aren't necessarily doing something fresh and unique, often going off of what came before, following the same mold the developer is already comfortable in, or just using standard elements within the genre, so limiting awards specifically to games that are fresh and unique is rather tough to do. Like you'd be left with a small handful of games, at best

For example, Bloodborne is a new IP but it's still a Souls game at the end of the day. I wouldn't exactly call it fresh or unique
 

LordofPwn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,402
i think the TGA's just show their recency bias and thats why the open critic list is better, at least a much better starting point.
 

Moves

Member
Oct 27, 2017
636
Better List? In some ways better and in some ways worse.
Is this a good way to determine GOTY candidates? definetely not
 

Pancracio17

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
18,754
:/

Not really going to battle you on the merits of DMC5 because eh, whatever.

However the original SMM is widely regarded as the best, most intuitive and user friendly creation editor by a long shot. The whole frame work of SMM1 was miles ahead of other games in terms of time and ease it takes to build a level, test it, upload it all wrapped in the frame work of a toolkit that used one of the best platforming series as a starting point.

Can't possibly understand how you can put DMC5 on a pedestal while games like Bayonetta, Ninja Gaiden Black and even DMC3 or 4 exist but say Mario Maker doesnt stand out in its genre. None sense.
Well yeah its the most user friendly one, but its not the only one and neither the one with the most freedom. It feels like I what expected it to be in 2019, maybe in part due to SMM1.

Again though, this is still super subjective, its not like DMCV is the most common goty nominee considering it missed the TGAs.
 

AbsoluteZ3R0

Member
Feb 5, 2019
885
Like this list much better than the TGS one. I feel like people give too much credit to fresh concepts. Its not enough that the concept is unique/fresh, it also needs to be good. I think some credits should also be given to games that polish existing formula to the max. Imo disco elysium and outer wilds were unique games that were also very well done and fun to play, on the other hand I could not continue death stranding after half way through. I am glad something unique like death stranding exists but imo its not very well done.
 

Deleted member 2172

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,577
Any list without Death Stranding is trash, so no ;-)

It's also really sad when the fifths or even further game in a franchise or remakes make the list. It shows how uninventive the whole industry is at the moment. Neither DMC5 nor Smash Bros. nor REmake 2 or Zelda should make a GOTY list. All these games were done before, in some cases even better. Fire Emblem seems legit because it changes enough to feel somewhat fresh. Contrary to Mario Maker 2 which feels more like an addon/enhanced port than a true sequel.

I am fine with games like Sekiro, Asgard's Wrath, Astral Chain and Disco Elysium making the list though. These games bring new things to the table. These are the games that should be celebrated.
But its Game of the Year. Not New IP of the Year or Non-Remake of the Year. Putting up these weird fences in what is supposed to be a category every single game can be nominated for/win makes no sense. If you want only games that bring new things to the table you are looking for a 'Best New IP' category.
 

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,500
Well yeah its the most user friendly one, but its not the only one and neither the one with the most freedom. It feels like I what expected it to be in 2019, maybe in part due to SMM1.

Again though, this is still super subjective, its not like DMCV is the most common goty nominee considering it missed the TGAs.

Games preferences are all subjective in general. It's no biggie. I love SMM2 and I'm not even rooting for it to win any categories. I just find some of the barriers people put up weird.

This Open Critic list is pretty damn good with some great choices that would never make a convetional TGA list. I find people implying its some how a poor way to do a GOTY list is weird. The results here are way more unique and people always complain about "safe" lists. Slay the Spire is definitely not a safe pick. I'd argue even Fire Emblem isnt either.
 

Pancracio17

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
18,754
Games preferences are all subjective in general. It's no biggie. I love SMM2 and I'm not even rooting for it to win any categories. I just find some of the barriers people put up weird.

This Open Critic list is pretty damn good with some great choices that would never make a convetional TGA list. I find people implying its some how a poor way to do a GOTY list is weird. The results here are way more unique and people always complain about "safe" lists. Slay the Spire is definitely not a safe pick. I'd argue even Fire Emblem isnt either.
None of the games there are bad picks by any means, but listing games like that feels kinda reductive in a way? Theres more to it than just review aggregates, youd miss unique experimental games like Death Stranding and Outer Wilds, which are hard to argue against them being year defining games (especially DS).

At the same time though I get what you mean. A game like Slay the Spire would never make it to the TGAs goty list no matter how good it is because its too obscure and these awards always focus on the big AAA releases. At least this way they can make it to the top.
 
OP
OP
lowhighkang_LHK
Oct 25, 2017
5,884
Las Vegas
Any list without Death Stranding is trash, so no ;-)

It's also really sad when the fifths or even further game in a franchise or remakes make the list. It shows how uninventive the whole industry is at the moment. Neither DMC5 nor Smash Bros. nor REmake 2 or Zelda should make a GOTY list.

I think this is an incredibly fucking stupid take. Just because it's a game in a long running franchise or a remake, doesn't mean it's not inventive. Or rather, whatever the flying hell you think "inventive" means or what that is in relation to your opinion on what game should or shouldn't be a GOTY nominee.
 
Aug 10, 2019
2,053
The "it opens up after x hours" is a weak argument for any game. You can't realistically ask somebody to be bored for 20 (your number) hours of a game on the hope that it might get better after that. And I'm applying that sentiment across all games. 20 hours is an enormous time sink for any singular piece of entertainment to sit through unhappy.
You're correct that 20 hours is an enormous time sink, and this is a major flaw in Death Stranding and a flaw that permeates the video game medium in general. However, without actually playing the game, you're talking about something you don't know about. And that's why I dismiss that opinion, and your rebuttal that it's a weak argument.
 
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Terra

Member
May 15, 2019
297
I mean the real answer is that "industry wide" or website GOTY is a silly concept to get invested in. Your own personal games you enjoyed this year is what matters, and trying to find that "OBJECTIVE GOTY" is at best, a curiosity. Shout your own faves, and don't get too invested in what a group of people think is the best AAA game of the year.
 

Mr.Deadshot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,285
I think this is an incredibly fucking stupid take. Just because it's a game in a long running franchise or a remake, doesn't mean it's not inventive. Or rather, whatever the flying hell you think "inventive" means or what that is in relation to your opinion on what game should or shouldn't be a GOTY nominee.
Read my other posts, I got into this. Smash Bros, Mario Maker 2 and DMC5 are cleary no GOTY contenders for me because they are either too similar to older games (Smash + MM2) or older games are actually better (DMC3 > DMC5).