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Is the Open Critic / Meta Critic top 6 list better than the TGA GOTY nominations?

  • Yes - I like this one better

    Votes: 597 62.5%
  • No - I like the TGA's nominations better

    Votes: 358 37.5%

  • Total voters
    955

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,487
Is that why FIFA and CoD are nominated every year?

This is such a lame ass deflection. I never said sales directly equals a nomination. I said the most popular and commercial games are going to be voted in. This obviously hinges on the quality being there. And this was obviously never implied that a game needs to ship 15m units to be in consideration.

I'm not going to even bother entertaining this line of discussion beyond this point either.
 

Glio

Member
Oct 27, 2017
24,497
Spain
I would say that it is not a good method but it gives better results so I don't know what to think.
 

Lobster Roll

signature-less, now and forever
Member
Sep 24, 2019
34,324
You only played 10 hours... you didn't play the game. The game trades 20 hours of 5/10 in exchange for 10 hours of 11/10. It's up to you whether you're willing to make that trade, but make no mistake, without the 20 hours you just won't get it.
The "it opens up after x hours" is a weak argument for any game. You can't realistically ask somebody to be bored for 20 (your number) hours of a game on the hope that it might get better after that. And I'm applying that sentiment across all games. 20 hours is an enormous time sink for any singular piece of entertainment to sit through unhappy.
 

SolidSnakex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,355
The "it opens up after x hours" is a weak argument for any game. You can't realistically ask somebody to be bored for 20 (your number) hours of a game on the hope that it might get better after that. And I'm applying that sentiment across all games. 20 hours is an enormous time sink for any singular piece of entertainment to sit through unhappy.

You can certainly say you didn't enjoy it, but at only 10h in you certainly did make it to when people really started to fall for the game. I mean, at even 40 hours into the game it's still introducing new mechanics.
 

Lobster Roll

signature-less, now and forever
Member
Sep 24, 2019
34,324
You can certainly say you didn't enjoy it, but at only 10h in you certainly did make it to when people really started to fall for the game. I mean, at even 40 hours into the game it's still introducing new mechanics.
I think 10 hours is more than enough time to decide if a game is for you or not and to eject from it. I'm more extreme in that regard, though, and my number is probably closer to 1 or 2 hours.
 

Kizuna

Member
Oct 27, 2017
550
Yes, I do like this one better.

Lists that have a bias towards more niche products that were exceptional in what they set out to do are better than popularity contests that favor games that were trying to please everyone.
 

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,487
If a game can't hold someone's attention for 10 hours it isn't entitled to more of your time. Shit is ridiculous, wait til it gets good is stupid. There are hundreds of games available right now that get good at minute 5.
 

Saint-14

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
14,477
This is such a lame ass deflection. I never said sales directly equals a nomination. I said the most popular and commercial games are going to be voted in. This obviously hinges on the quality being there. And this was obviously never implied that a game needs to ship 15m units to be in consideration.

I'm not going to even bother entertaining this line of discussion beyond this point either.
Lmao What? That's literally the same thing, popularity comes with sales.
 

SolidSnakex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,355
I think 10 hours is more than enough time to decide if a game is for you or not and to eject from it. I'm more extreme in that regard, though, and my number is probably closer to 1 or 2 hours.

Like I said, it's perfectly fine if after that time you've decided that it's not for you. But it also means that you haven't really gotten to where the game started to win people over and why it's being nominated for GotY over other games. DS has more perfect scores than any other game released this year. And that's notable because there was a review stipulation that you needed to complete the game before reviewing it. It's definitely not a game for everyone. But it's also unlike any other game out there on a number of levels, and it's obviously winning over a lot of people as well.
 

Voodoopeople

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,848
It's actually a better list. Disco Elysium should win but Resi 2 is very close.

They have definitely called the top 3 correctly.

The thing with Death Stranding in particular is that I disagree with the premise that simply trying something innovative is enough to laud it in itself. Innovation does not equate to quality.

Game of the Year is about who best executes the creation of games in a given year.

So I'd be happy seeing COD/FIFA/ Halo 25 on lists if they execute their vision so well that they score high 9s all over the place.
 

Saint-14

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
14,477
If your interpretation of commercial popularity will bias GOTY picks for something like the TGA is to go "so CoD and Fifa right!!" I'm not wasting my time dude.
I mean yeah, why wouldn't it be when I was replying to this.

So the most popular and comercial games are going to be voted in basically.

Are CoD and FIFA not the most popular games every year? Popularity alone won't get you into the GOTY discussion, having a lasting impact on people will.
 

ANDS

Banned
Jun 25, 2019
566
I like the list from TGA. Means titles like The Outer Worlds and Death Stranding get their shot, despite not being overwhelmingly loved. I am surprised The Outer Wilds isn't on the TGA list but concessions have to be made.
 

Lobster Roll

signature-less, now and forever
Member
Sep 24, 2019
34,324
Like I said, it's perfectly fine if after that time you've decided that it's not for you. But it also means that you haven't really gotten to where the game started to win people over and why it's being nominated for GotY over other games. DS has more perfect scores than any other game released this year. And that's notable because there was a review stipulation that you needed to complete the game before reviewing it. It's definitely not a game for everyone. But it's also unlike any other game out there on a number of levels, and it's obviously winning over a lot of people as well.
I'm not talking about DS. I'm talking about all games. There should never be a required number of hours played nor a required % of a game completed for someone's assessment to be valid. If a person boots up a game and is bored after say ... 5 hours and never returns, they can assess the game based on how that piece of entertainment engaged them. I would consider their assessment to be just as worthwhile as somebody who made it to the very end.
 

MegaSackman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,701
Argentina
It's actually a better list. Disco Elysium should win but Resi 2 is very close.

They have definitely called the top 3 correctly.

The thing with Death Stranding in particular is that I disagree with the premise that simply trying something innovative is enough to laud it in itself. Innovation does not equate to quality.

Game of the Year is about who best executes the creation of games in a given year.

So I'd be happy seeing COD/FIFA/ Halo 25 on lists if they execute their vision so well that they score high 9s all over the place.

Oh but Death Stranding executes its vision perfectly, not many worlds out there so greatly realized and its systems so fantastically integrated in its context, is just that some people doesn't like the vision at all.
 

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,487
And that's notable because there was a review stipulation that you needed to complete the game before reviewing it.

This alone is part of the reason why the whole press being intertwined with the industry is dumb.

How the fuck is it acceptable that the publisher can demand their game gets a review condition like this?
 

shinbojan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,101
Oh but Death Stranding executes its vision perfectly, not many worlds out there so greatly realized and its systems so fantastically integrated in its context, is just that some people doesn't like the vision at all.

I liked (not loved) the vision, but did not like the execution.
And perfectly is such a strong word.
 

Deleted member 46948

Account closed at user request
Banned
Aug 22, 2018
8,852
You can certainly say you didn't enjoy it, but at only 10h in you certainly did make it to when people really started to fall for the game. I mean, at even 40 hours into the game it's still introducing new mechanics.

Why would you need to suffer through 10 hours of boredom/annoyance before an entertainment product starts being, y'know, entertaining?
It's an unreasonable demand in any media, but especially in games - I can skip bad first season of a good TV show, I can skip a few chapters in a book, and still get some entertainment out of it, but I can't press a button to skip 10 hours of bullshit to get to the supposedly good parts of the game.
 

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,487
They're not enforced to accept these conditions. However, that would force them to have some ethics, instead of rushing to meet deadlines.

I get this is a business so they do what they have to do.

It however just highlights why I dont give a shit about the industry beyond BAFTA Games Awards.
 

Pariah

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,944
I get this is a business so they do what they have to do.

It however just highlights why I dont give a shit about the industry beyond BAFTA Games Awards.
That's a position I can identify with. For all the noise around them, I think that the TGA are for video games, at best, what the Golden Globes are for films. Nobody except the press itself takes the latter too seriously, so I should hope for the same in this case.
 
Last edited:

SolidSnakex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,355
Why would you need to suffer through 10 hours of boredom/annoyance before an entertainment product starts being, y'know, entertaining?
It's an unreasonable demand in any media, but especially in games - I can skip bad first season of a good TV show, I can skip a few chapters in a book, and still get some entertainment out of it, but I can't press a button to skip 10 hours of bullshit to get to the supposedly good parts of the game.

I never said that anyone needs to "suffer" through it. I've stopped playing some games after less than an hour. I then move on and if other people enjoy it, good for them.
 

Deleted member 46948

Account closed at user request
Banned
Aug 22, 2018
8,852
I never said that anyone needs to "suffer" through it. I've stopped playing some games after less than an hour. I then move on and if other people enjoy it, good for them.

I get it, me too. But I see this "you only played for 10 hours, you can't rate the game" argument repeatedly in DS discussions. I think if you give something a chance and it bores you, you can absolutely have a valid opinion about it.
 

MegaSackman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,701
Argentina
That's a position I can identify with. For all the noise around them, I think that the TGA are for video games, at best, what the Golden Globes are for films. Nobody except the press itselt takes the latter too seriously, so I should hope for the same in this case.

The Game Awards are pretty much The Golden Globes of gaming, thing is in our industry the "golden globes" are way more popular than the Oscars (DICE awards).

I like The Game Awards and Game Developers, DICE and Bafta. They all have value to me when talking about awards of course.
 

Damn Silly

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,188
Also means tony hawk's pro skater 3 is one of the best games ever.

fwiw, this absolutely was the case back when it released (same with its predecessor) and hell, I wager if you asked ERA at least what some of their favourite sports games are, both THPS2 and 3 would rank pretty highly.

unmatched for pure fun and game feel back then, with banging soundtracks to boot
 

Pancracio17

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
18,709
Im gonna be honest, on average I like the games there more, but I cant deny that its missing the really unique and impactful games like Death Stranding or Outer Wilds. This isnt how it should be done, but I dont like the TGAs list either.

I dont think Mario Maker is really outstanding enough for a goty nomination even if its really solid.
 

giapel

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,593
It's pretty easy to argue against. The review scores are one persons opinion at an outlet that may contain dozens of people with a variety of opinions on the game. Letting that single score dictate the views of the entire outlet seems a bit ridiculous, no? I'll give you a great example of this. The reviewer of TLoU at Polygon gave it a 7.5. Meanwhile it ranked at #4 on their year end list. So it's pretty clear that the rest of the staff there felt pretty different about it compared to the person that reviewed it.
Totally. My point was that although the method is wrong (ie using aggregate reviews) in this instance it produced fairly sensible results. Still, I agree it's not the way to go for nominations.
 

Pariah

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,944
The Game Awards are pretty much The Golden Globes of gaming, thing is in our industry the "golden globes" are way more popular than the Oscars (DICE awards).

I like The Game Awards and Game Developers, DICE and Bafta. They all have value to me when talking about awards of course.
I wonder if that's because this industry is more openly international, whereas DICE sticks closer to the Western, US-based canon employed by the Oscars. As an example, let's say a regular moviegoer might not see anything but Hollywood films for a whole year, with the rare exception of a foreign movie. However, that same description would be an unusual sight in gaming, where Japanese, European and global indie companies are essential to the market. If an association meant to represent the whole industry, doesn't give due credit to a considerable part of it, it runs the risk of becoming irrelevant. I think DICE might have suffered a bit of this: only two Non-American GOTYs in more than twenty editions.
 

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,487
Im gonna be honest, on average I like the games there more, but I cant deny that its missing the really unique and impactful games like Death Stranding or Outer Wilds. This isnt how it should be done, but I dont like the TGAs list either.

I dont think Mario Maker is really outstanding enough for a goty nomination even if its really solid.

Is this because Mario Maker 2 is a sequel? If this was Mario Maker 1 would your opinion change?
 

SolidSnakex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,355
I get it, me too. But I see this "you only played for 10 hours, you can't rate the game" argument repeatedly in DS discussions. I think if you give something a chance and it bores you, you can absolutely have a valid opinion about it.

I guess it just depends on what you mean by "rate". I really couldn't trust someone who was reviewing DS if they only put in 10 hours with it. Because again it really doesn't open up and change the longer you stick with it. But at the same time, if a poster here said, 'Hey, I put in 10 hours and I just didn't like it', that's totally fine. It's a long game and certainly not for everyone, so I can understand why someone would check out at 10 hours or even before then. There are a lot of games out there so if you aren't having fun with one then there's no sense in you sticking with it.