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daTRUballin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,143
Portland, Oregon
Back in the N64 era, it was absolutely absurd to see such a game like Conker's Bad Fur Day on a Nintendo system. Especially when it was also directly associated with Nintendo due to being developed by their prized second party developer in Rare at the time. I was way too young at the time to remember or pay attention to what was going on in the industry side of things, but I can imagine how shocking such a game would've been like back then.

Unfortunately, despite its controversial nature and status as a beloved cult classic these days, its March 2001 release date did it no favors. Released 8 months before the release of the GameCube and Xbox and after the Dreamcast and PS2 were already in full swing, the game kind of bombed and understandably so. Next gen had arrived and nobody really cared about buying more games for the ancient dying N64. Due to this, the game was seemingly overlooked by many and despite having some very risky violent and sexual content for the time, it didn't make much of a splash and didn't generate as much controversy as something like, say, GTA has done before.

What if the game had released earlier in the N64's lifespan? Say somewhere around 1998 or 1999 maybe. When the N64 was still the hot new Nintendo system and was still relevant. I imagine the game would've undoubtedly sold better. Would it have angered parents and politicians the same way something like "Hot Coffee" did (Sunflower scene, anyone)? Would it have helped Nintendo fight against its "kiddie" image to have such an obscenely raunchy exclusive come out and sell millions of copies? Would Conker have become a franchise and have had new entries for years to come? Would the success of the game have preserved Rare's relationship with Nintendo at all? So many questions and possibilities to think about in this scenario.

Alternate scenarios are always fun to discuss and thinking about the kind of impact a game like CBFD might've had in the gaming world if it had released much earlier is interesting to think about. What do you think, ERA?
 

Deleted member 19702

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,722
Most likely, yeah, if it was released around 98/99, and probably would be a step against the kiddy bias spreaded by the anti-Nintendo crowd. But I think Nintendo's unwillingness to publish it could slow down it's sales, although the word of mouth would be huge to battle the kiddy bias.
 

newmoneytrash

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,981
Melbourne, Australia
no

it made a big enough impact but, other than being more profane, it wasn't better than anything else rare did

jet force gemini came out two years earlier and had a much smaller impact because, you know, it's bad. conker has a fun world and fun characters but the game isn't that fun to play
 

Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265
I kind of like that it exists as a capstone to Rare's own catalogue of animal mascot platformers. The joke would be a little devalued if they made a big satire of their own excesses and then went right back to making another one.
 

grand

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,194
Probably less because 90s Nintendo would've buried it from the get go. The game only got released because the 64 was dying.
 

Border

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,859
No. One juvenile game full of naughty words and toilet humor was not going to make a dent against the reputation of the N64 or the PSX. The South Park FPS was released on N64 in 1998 and while it pushed the envelope in terms of adult content that wasn't really going to change what people thought of the system.

Probably worth noting that the PS1 was considered mature because it had stuff like Final Fantasy, Metal Gear, Gran Turismo, Tomb Raider, and Tekken. It did not get that reputation because it had games where cute cartoon animals said "Shit".

If Nintendo was really interested in rehabilitating the N64's image, they would need to have put out Goldeneye sequels and Metroid.
 

Hawk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
428
It was a reaction to when it was released. It was a late N64 game so Nintendo, even if they were unwilling to advertise it, at least allowed it to be released. It was also a reaction to the previous few years, where Nintendo was known for it's kiddy image and Rare for it's collectathons. It's not much use speculating about what it would have done if it was released earlier because there wouldn't have ever been such a game earlier.
 
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daTRUballin

daTRUballin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,143
Portland, Oregon
no

it made a big enough impact but, other than being more profane, it wasn't better than anything else rare did

jet force gemini came out two years earlier and had a much smaller impact because, you know, it's bad. conker has a fun world and fun characters but the game isn't that fun to play

I think the shock factor of the subject matter alone would've overshadowed whatever anybody would think of the gameplay itself and it still could've been a big release for that reason. Imagine such a game coming out for the N64 when the system was still being paid attention to.
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,838
It worked best as a culmination of everything they had learned from developing 3d platformers and shooters so late N64 was what made it shine.
 

Deleted member 19702

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,722
People saying it only made impact because of the content are being silly and disingenuous. It was a very solid 3D platformer with, perhaps, one of the best graphics ever made into the N64 hardware, great and varied gameplay, impressive cutscenes with full voice acting and a great multiplayer. It felt like a more like a South Park version of Gex with many movies and shows spoofs. The Matrix level was awesome.

Yeah, the late release hurted it a lot. By 2001 nobody cared about N64 anymore.

Probably less because 90s Nintendo would've buried it from the get go. The game only got released because the 64 was dying.

LOL, 90s Nintendo allowed stuff like Turok, Shadow Man, Doom 64, South Park, etc., exclusively for N64 without any censorship. This wasn't pre-ESRB Nintendo anymore.
 
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daTRUballin

daTRUballin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,143
Portland, Oregon
LOL, 90s Nintendo allowed stuff like Turok, Shadow Man, Doom 64, South Park, etc., exclusively for N64 without any censorship. This wasn't pre-ESRB Nintendo anymore.

And yet, Nintendo shied away from Conker's BFD for whatever reason. Maybe it was because of the fact that it was a 2nd party exclusive coming from Rare? Or maybe the game was way too raunchy than what Nintendo was used to?

I remember Chris Seavor (director of the game) saying in an interview that he got the feeling that the game was never appreciated by people at Nintendo.
 

Gusy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,086
The thing is that.. in retrospect, Conker simply wasn't a very good game, even by early 2000's standards. Its varied and pushes the N64 hardware in interesting ways, but it wasn't particularly fun. The crass humor didn't do enough to overshadow the mediocre gameplay. I still managed to enjoy it at the time.. somehow.
 

newmoneytrash

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,981
Melbourne, Australia
I think the shock factor of the subject matter alone would've overshadowed whatever anybody would think of the gameplay itself and it still could've been a big release for that reason. Imagine such a game coming out for the N64 when the system was still being paid attention to.
i think we already saw the extent of the shock factor. i don't think it could have (or should have) don't anymore than it did

i was right in the target demographic for conker when it came out and i liked it a lot but it did all that it could do. if it had come out earlier the only thing we could have gotten more was a follow up that, a lot like the duke nukem 3d console follow ups, probably would have only yielded diminishing returns

conker exists in the exact right time and place for that game and we should probably be grateful that it doesn't exist beyond that tbh
 

SupremeWu

Banned
Dec 19, 2017
2,856
It was a mediocre game with some pretty un-funny comedy, I think I beat it but it never impressed me, but I did love the ending
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,756
No , n64 needed a final fantasy. It already had 3D platform adventure down.

Most of all the N64 needed to not be the N64 with its limited cartridges, terrible controller and barebones third party support.

Regarding Conker, I don't think it would've done all that much for the N64 even if it was released earlier in the console's lifespan.
 

Vert1

Banned
Sep 1, 2018
335
I was way too young at the time to remember or pay attention to what was going on in the industry side of things, but I can imagine how shocking such a game would've been like back then.
Then and now. No one is making games like Conker's Bad Fur Day.

Unfortunately, despite its controversial nature and status as a beloved cult classic these days, its March 2001 release date did it no favors. Released 8 months before the release of the GameCube and Xbox and after the Dreamcast and PS2 were already in full swing, the game kind of bombed and understandably so. . . . . Due to this, the game was seemingly overlooked by many and despite having some very risky violent and sexual content for the time, it didn't make much of a splash and didn't generate as much controversy as something like, say, GTA has done before.
Nintendo publishing Conker's Bad Fur Day would have dramatically altered their image for the worse. "For the time"? This game would shut down ResetEra if it was newly released.

What if the game had released earlier in the N64's lifespan? Say somewhere around 1998 or 1999 maybe. When the N64 was still the hot new Nintendo system and was still relevant. I imagine the game would've undoubtedly sold better. Would it have angered parents and politicians the same way something like "Hot Coffee" did (Sunflower scene, anyone)?
Yes. Nintendo merely publishing the game would have been taken as them developing the game by unknowing parents. Good dodge.

Would it have helped Nintendo fight against its "kiddie" image to have such an obscenely raunchy exclusive come out and sell millions of copies?
Would Conker have become a franchise and have had new entries for years to come? Would the success of the game have preserved Rare's relationship with Nintendo at all?

Nintendo didn't have a "kiddie" image in the N64 era, but it certainly would have damaged their worldly/family-friendly image. Conker's Bad Fur Day would not get a blockbuster "Reloaded-tier" sequel. You can't outdo what was put into that game. It's a one-of-a-kind game. MadWorld on Wii is extremely violent, but it's not going in all directions of obscene stuff like CBFD. The success of the game would have damaged Rare's relationship with Nintendo. In certain past cases of outraged parents, the offending game gets re-rated to a higher rating. More spotlight put on the game and it might not have been purchasable anywhere.

Alternate scenarios are always fun to discuss and thinking about the kind of impact a game like CBFD might've had in the gaming world if it had released much earlier is interesting to think about. What do you think, ERA?
I think the major alternate scenario regarding Rareware would have been the impact of Perfect Dark launching on GameCube.
 
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GamerJM

Member
Nov 8, 2017
15,730
Wasn't part of the appeal and point of the game that it came out at the end of the generation? The fifth console generation, especially on the N64, was a console generation extremely defined by collectathon mascot platformers. Conker is a response to five whole years of that and takes the piss out of it. It'd be like if Spec Ops: The Line came out before Call of Duty made the gigantic impact on the industry that it did. Maybe not to that extreme but you know what I mean.
 

skeezx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,322
IMO most latter N64 stuff actually had an "advantage". most everybody by 2000 had an N64 lying around and kids and joe six pack gamers weren't privy to throwing hundreds of dollars down for ps2/dreamcast just yet.

that said conker in particular probably came out a year or two too late but brass tacks it did about as well as it could do
 
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bmfrosty

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,896
SF Bay Area
No difference. Sony won the generation because optical media offered a much better business model for 3rd parties and it came in $100 cheaper than the Saturn. Carts were a bad choice. Being 18 months late to the generation was another. The bad breakup with Sony over the SNES CD peripheral was another.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,549
Even side-stepping the larger CD v Cart/Final Fantasy situation that was the real difference maker that gen, the answer is still no, and not even just because of the content/quality of the game itself.

When Nintendo DID release it, they more or less did so by treating it like it was pornography. They sold it with almost no marketing (besides that creepy tv ad where a lady is having sex with a squirrel), and even marked the end of Nintendo Power covering M rated games in their pages for a number of years.

Even if it had released earlier in the N64's lifecycle it still would have been put in an unmarked brown paper bag and sent to die at retail by Nintendo itself. It did as well as it was ever going to do.
 

FinFunnels

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,610
Seattle
I was an obnoxious Nintendo fanboy back in those days and I don't remember Conker making much of a splash at all. It was all about Paper Mario then. I think the 3D platformer fatigue had already started to set in around the time Banjo-Tooie came out.

Conker was pretty amazing, though. Rare's N64 output was insane.
 

Vert1

Banned
Sep 1, 2018
335
Wasn't part of the appeal and point of the game that it came out at the end of the generation? The fifth console generation, especially on the N64, was a console generation extremely defined by collectathon mascot platformers. Conker is a response to five whole years of that and takes the piss out of it. It'd be like if Spec Ops: The Line came out before Call of Duty made the gigantic impact on the industry that it did. Maybe not to that extreme but you know what I mean.
This is a really good point, plus the references to movies like The Matrix (1999) would have been in jeopardy if the game released in '98-'99.
 

Xero grimlock

Member
Dec 1, 2017
2,947
like others said nintendo didnt have a kiddie image and conker earlier would have helped the n64. its main issue is missing the peak of many genres almost entirely. peak of the fighting game craze, and you get smash and some mediocre midway games, and smash didnt have the recognition it has now. Though killer instinct tried to carry that by itself admirably. no tekken street fighter xmen vs street fighter. also aside from resident evil 2 missed the huge survival horror boom and entirely missed the jrpg golden age. platformers were already one of the few games the n64 excelled at with a lot of good representation.
 

TSM

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,843
Nintendo did their best to bury the fact that this game was even coming out. So I'm thinking no.
 

mikehaggar

Developer at Pixel Arc Studios
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
1,379
Harrisburg, Pa
I still need to plays this some day. Would I be better off playing the emulated N64 version included in Rare Replay or playing Live and Reloaded via Xbox One BC?
 

z0m3le

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,418
The N64 was the mature console of that generation. Literally some of it's biggest games were 007, perfect dark, doom 64, turok, quake... Nintendo was seen as kiddy because it was convenient at the time to say so. Same as now really.
 

OldGamer

Member
Jul 6, 2019
389
No. The main issue was Nintendo lack of advertising for the game. I bought it on launch, but only because EGM advertised it. It was not an easy game to find in the US.

Nintendo at the time had a strong stigma against MA rated games. Would have only allowed it if the game got neutered to a T rating.

I think the game would have done best in the late 90s, around the time of early South Park. The novelty factor was stronger then, and the Matrix references were actually very timely for when the game came out.
 

arcadepc

Banned
Dec 28, 2019
1,925
Nintendo had already a slightly edited Duke Nuke 3d before Conker and it would be difficult for Conker to outshine Duke. It was also a time when game mascots popularity started to fade.
 

Kcannon

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,671
Most likely, yeah, if it was released around 98/99, and probably would be a step against the kiddy bias spreaded by the anti-Nintendo crowd. But I think Nintendo's unwillingness to publish it could slow down it's sales, although the word of mouth would be huge to battle the kiddy bias.
LOL, 90s Nintendo allowed stuff like Turok, Shadow Man, Doom 64, South Park, etc., exclusively for N64 without any censorship. This wasn't pre-ESRB Nintendo anymore.

So those games didn't help subvert the image of the N64, but Conker somehow would?

Like, are we forgetting Goldeneye or Perfect Dark?
 

Betelgeuse

Member
Nov 2, 2017
2,941
I still need to plays this some day. Would I be better off playing the emulated N64 version included in Rare Replay or playing Live and Reloaded via Xbox One BC?
Very recently completed L&R. Only have faint memories of playing the emulated version many moons ago.

The upgraded visuals (and audio) add a lot. The game is seriously gorgeous, particularly at 4K on X.

There is unfortunately a downside: in certain areas the game has a really bizarre issue that feels like the framerate drops in half, but I think it's really a camera judder issue more than an FPS issue. It's not prevalent throughout the entirety but pops up enough to be an annoyance, especially if you're sensitive to performance. I didn't find that it made completing the game more difficult or ruined the experience, just that it is a significant blemish on an otherwise great remaster.
 

yurr

Alt-Account
Banned
Nov 20, 2019
946
no

it made a big enough impact but, other than being more profane, it wasn't better than anything else rare did

jet force gemini came out two years earlier and had a much smaller impact because, you know, it's bad. conker has a fun world and fun characters but the game isn't that fun to play
That never stopped red dead 2, Witcher 3, last of us, etc. characters go a lot farther in gaming then some will admit. Some of the highest rated games and best selling games are character driven. I absolutely love CBFD it just wasn't played enough.
 

Jegriva

Banned
Sep 23, 2019
5,519
I discovered this game on the internet around 2002-2003. Totally flew udner my radar and I was a frequent browser in game stores. Who bought N64 games in 2001?

The fact is, it wasn't even that great of a game It's worse than the two Banjoes, for example. And the OgXbox remake was a better experience.

And about the shock valure, I remember Carmageddon, Messiah and the first GTA to be way more controversial.

Would I be better off playing the emulated N64 version included in Rare Replay or playing Live and Reloaded via Xbox One BC?
I'd suggest the OgXbox release just for the fantastic fur rendering. But it also has way more modern controls and it's better balanced. Unfortunately if you are a collector, the games is a bit costly (but it's 10 bucks digitally).

People often complain about some poop jokes being censored, but if you are older than 13, and you are not living in 2001, you don't need to hear "shit" in a videogame to find it funny.
 
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Mickagau

Member
Dec 11, 2018
2,192
France
By 2000, software sales were really going down for the N64.
Many games suffered from that and it is too bad since a lot of good game were still releasing.
Conquer was sent to die.
And Animal Crossing was never released outside Japan.
I wish release schedule could have been speeden up
 
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daTRUballin

daTRUballin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,143
Portland, Oregon
There are quite a bit of Conker detractors in this thread. How has Synth not been here yet??? This is your chance to assemble your army of anti-Conker folks!

Also, I've noticed opinions on the Xbox remake seem to have turned around in recent years. There was a time when the remake was absolutely despised and compared unfavorably with the N64 original. Now it seems like many have the opposite opinion. Or am I just looking at the wrong places and this is mostly a ResetEra thing?
 

Soul Skater

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,201
n64 owners had such massive software droughts and were regularly starved for anything good. So yeah I think it would have been a much bigger deal had it came out in 98
 

Jegriva

Banned
Sep 23, 2019
5,519
Also, I've noticed opinions on the Xbox remake seem to have turned around in recent years. There was a time when the remake was absolutely despised and compared unfavorably with the N64 original. Now it seems like many have the opposite opinion. Or am I just looking at the wrong places and this is mostly a ResetEra thing?
The only motivations against the remake I used to read were:
"Microsoft is evil and sells Excel, and Nintendo is good and builds toys for sick children"
"They censored the word shit, how can a videogame be funny without cursing"
"I can emulate the N64 on my phone, I will never look for a giant old Xbox to play Conker on it"
 

bionic77

Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,900
No. In the 90s Sony was as cool as Apple or Samung is now. One game is not enough to change the perception of a brand. Nintendo had a brand of being family friendly based. But they never tried to be cool.
 

dedge

Member
Sep 15, 2019
2,431
One thing that would have been cool would have been Conker as a GameCube launch title.
 

Deleted member 19702

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,722
And yet, Nintendo shied away from Conker's BFD for whatever reason. Maybe it was because of the fact that it was a 2nd party exclusive coming from Rare? Or maybe the game was way too raunchy than what Nintendo was used to?

I remember Chris Seavor (director of the game) saying in an interview that he got the feeling that the game was never appreciated by people at Nintendo.

They did shied away, but any censorship or meddling was made toward it as some here seem it would have happened.

Anyway, I'm not surprised about the bashing toward Conker here, same thing happens with Duke Nukem and other old games with crude humor. It's part of the political agenda mentality from this community.
 

Camjo-Z

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,538
I still need to plays this some day. Would I be better off playing the emulated N64 version included in Rare Replay or playing Live and Reloaded via Xbox One BC?

If you can be bothered, it's worth playing both. If you can only pick one I'd go with L&R though, the fantastic visuals and numerous improvements to the gameplay are worth the added censorship.
 

OldGamer

Member
Jul 6, 2019
389
It is worth remembering that the only reason CBFD existed was because Conker 64, a game basically teased during the launch of the N64 was caught in dev hell for a LONG time. Long enough for both GoldenEye and Perfect Dark to release, long enough for both Banjos to get released, and long enough for the entirety of DK64 to get made.

CBFD only existed because it needed to go into a more clear direction--any direction. That's why the first half of the game feels like it was made on the bones of the Conker 64 Beta and the second half actually feels like a fully realized raunchy, satirical platformer skit comedy. I still think early South Park was among the biggest influences on the game along with the upswell in irreverent "lowbrow" comedy in the late 90s in both the US and UK.

In addition, its unclear if Nintendo would have been more or less strict on this one had it been released earlier, but the combo of the late release and Nintendo treating the game like pornography by steering the general public away from it set this game up for failure interns of

Also, for clarity's sake, the N64 version wasn't exactly uncensored either and had quite a few *bleeps* in the game. Whether it was a creative decision similar to the TV trend at the time or forced upon them is unclear, but even the cheat code that supposedly uncensored the game didn't do much.

I think the only big affect the XBox censorship had was censoring the more infamous Great Mighty Poo song which originally had no *bleeps.*

It's also worth pondering if the game was released earlier, whether it would have looked worse and lose some of that cartoony stretch animation and smooth texture which helped it stand out. At best it could have released one year earlier.

Lastly, one can argue that the reason Dinosaur Planet became Star Fox Adventures was partially a punishment for allowing Rare to go rogue in developing and releasing CBFD. A move potentially to keep Rare within arms reach from then on. Also, that game was in Dev hell possibly longer than Conker was, and they may have feared a similar new direction off the beaten path.
 

hipsterbodega

Member
Oct 30, 2017
603
Would have changed nothing. Conker has obvious intrinsic shock value, but a large part of what makes it so shocking (and adding to its notoriety) is that it came at the end of a long line of family friendly games from Nintendo and Rare. Plunking it down in the middle of the N64's life and, yeah, it's still shocking but I'd argue less so.

Nintendo's "kiddy" image was always completely overblown, but no one game would ever undo the perception, no matter when it released.
 

Xero grimlock

Member
Dec 1, 2017
2,947
It is worth remembering that the only reason CBFD existed was because Conker 64, a game basically teased during the launch of the N64 was caught in dev hell for a LONG time. Long enough for both GoldenEye and Perfect Dark to release, long enough for both Banjos to get released, and long enough for the entirety of DK64 to get made.

CBFD only existed because it needed to go into a more clear direction--any direction. That's why the first half of the game feels like it was made on the bones of the Conker 64 Beta and the second half actually feels like a fully realized raunchy, satirical platformer skit comedy. I still think early South Park was among the biggest influences on the game along with the upswell in irreverent "lowbrow" comedy in the late 90s in both the US and UK.
also the conker gameboy color game had already come out and it was a kid friendly game, so it was before the tonal shift or at least most of its development was done before hand.
 

Skiptastic

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,718
One thing that would have been cool would have been Conker as a GameCube launch title.
This is what I was thinking. If it had come out in 98/99, it wouldn't have had the Matrix portion because that movie came out in 1999. But if it could have basically come out in its remake form as a launch title for the GameCube, it might have made less of a splash sales wise but would have bolstered the GameCube launch, for sure. Or maybe it would have still gone unnoticed as PS2 dominated that holiday season and Halo made its splash.
 
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daTRUballin

daTRUballin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,143
Portland, Oregon
I think the major alternate scenario regarding Rareware would have been the impact of Perfect Dark launching on GameCube.

One thing that would have been cool would have been Conker as a GameCube launch title.

Yep. Both of these have been discussed here before in greater detail and it's a very interesting "what if" scenario to think about. Having PD and CBFD as GC launch titles rather than late N64 titles would have helped the GC greatly IMO. Even if it made more sense to have Conker as an N64 game due to the game being a parody of N64 tropes.

I also think Rare having two games for the GC at launch could've made Nintendo hesitate in cutting off their partnership with them.

Lastly, one can argue that the reason Dinosaur Planet became Star Fox Adventures was partially a punishment for allowing Rare to go rogue in developing and releasing CBFD. A move potentially to keep Rare within arms reach from then on. Also, that game was in Dev hell possibly longer than Conker was, and they may have feared a similar new direction off the beaten path.

Some people have always speculated that it was because of some "decline" at Rare or something to do with their releases starting to slow down that Nintendo let go of them, but I'm starting to believe that Nintendo probably ruined their relationship with Rare due to them becoming more heavy handed with them. Things seemed to be going great during the late SNES and early N64 years, but things started to slide downhill towards the end.

Meddling with Dinosaur Planet and turning it into a Star Fox game as you've already mentioned, but also the way they handled CBFD's release and sent it out to die couldn't have helped either. I also recently learned that DK64 was pretty much rushed out to meet the November 1999 release date and people from other teams at Rare had to come and help push the game out the door. Nintendo wanted a major game like DK64 to come out during that holiday season, and so that might explain why the game might not have been up to Rare's usual standards in some areas.
 

Deleted member 19702

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,722
Lastly, one can argue that the reason Dinosaur Planet became Star Fox Adventures was partially a punishment for allowing Rare to go rogue in developing and releasing CBFD. A move potentially to keep Rare within arms reach from then on. Also, that game was in Dev hell possibly longer than Conker was, and they may have feared a similar new direction off the beaten path.

Nintendo's decision to shift Dinosaur Planet into Star Fox Adventures had nothing to do with CBFD, even less being a "punishment against Rare's subversion".

Nintendo was notorious to meddle with their projects in the middle to late 90s and early 2000s. Remember: Star Fox 2 was cancelled although being complete, Wave Race was initially a hover boat racer (similar to Hydrothunder), asked DMA Design to complete redesign Body Harvest, wanted to tone down the violence into GoldenEye 007, cancelled many Retro projects to focus on Metroid Prime, cancelled Left Field's 1080 and shifted development for NST. It was an inhouse mentality, Dinosaur Planet becoming SFA was part of that.

Some people have always speculated that it was because of some "decline" at Rare or something to do with their releases starting to slow down that Nintendo let go of them, but I'm starting to believe that Nintendo probably ruined their relationship with Rare due to them becoming more heavy handed with them. Things seemed to be going great during the late SNES and early N64 years, but things started to slide downhill towards the end.

Meddling with Dinosaur Planet and turning it into a Star Fox game as you've already mentioned, but also the way they handled CBFD's release and sent it out to die couldn't have helped either. I also recently learned that DK64 was pretty much rushed out to meet the November 1999 release date and people from other teams at Rare had to come and help push the game out the door. Nintendo wanted a major game like DK64 to come out during that holiday season, and so that might explain why the game might not have been up to Rare's usual standards in some areas.

The real reason why Nintendo dismissed Rare was because it was too big (more than 2000 employees) and Nintendo both wanted to work with small teams and concentrate their management and development focus in Japan. No secret why shortly after Rare's departure they got rid of Left Field, Factor 5 and Silicon Knights and downgraded NST.
 
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