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If Captain America/Thor/Hulk can work in cinema, so can Superman
- Thread starter John Doe
- Start date
We need a real-life Superman adaptation based on Superman: Red Sun. Think that would be great in the DC expanded universe thing they have going on
To be fair I thought both Returns and MOS did him fine. A proper sequel to both could have fix some of the problems with the character but we got BvS and the rest is history.
It can work IF the producers realize that the biggest conflict that Superman has isn't with Lex Luthor, neither with any kind of superbeing trying to destroy the Earth, but with the dilemma of being a Superhero for a world which Clark doesn't feel that he's belong to.
The messianic vision that Zack Snyder gave to Superman also doesn't help. I refused to watch the Snyderversion of JL because I'll never forgive what he did with Batman vs Superman, but I doubt that it's better in any instance.
After all, Jonathan Kent died in vain.
The messianic vision that Zack Snyder gave to Superman also doesn't help. I refused to watch the Snyderversion of JL because I'll never forgive what he did with Batman vs Superman, but I doubt that it's better in any instance.
After all, Jonathan Kent died in vain.
Batman isn't in his first year in TDK, so that's not high praise.
Nolan's Batman is divorced from all but a few aspects of Batman's character that he has been building and refining for nearly 100 years for the sake of Nolan exploring the exact character he wants to explore. Which is fine. More vulnerable, less capable, less dedicated. Fine. But you know what's not fine? You know what damn near every Batman film gets wrong about the character? You know what Nolan actually got right in Begins for one brief, shining moment and then completely failed for his next two films?
Everyone wants to tell the story of a hopelessly broken man fighting a losing war. That's half the story of Batman at best. The rest of the story of Batman is the story of a boy who lost his family, swore it would never happen to anyone else if he could stop it, and dedicated his life to that goal. In the process he assembled a family of his own that, despite spending their nights on rooftops, act as a family. That have a family's ups and downs. Fallings out. Comings together. That love and support one another.
And you don't need the whole Batfamily to tell that story. Hell, you don't even need Robin (though you should if you're telling a Batman story more than one movie long). But you need a Bruce Wayne that no one would question would go out of his way to comfort a scared child. You need a Bruce Wayne that is convincingly more concerned with protecting the victimized than punishing the victimizers. You need a Bruce Wayne that is obsessed with what the mission is, not that the mission is.
Nolan and Goyer weren't interested in writing a Batman movie. They were interested in writing their own character who they could map onto Batman. And everyone is willing to call them on doing this exact same shtick with Man of Steel since it's a worse movie, while ignoring they were the ones who wrote it.
This, it's not difficult to create an actual Superman story/movie, it just seems people don't want to for various reasons.
This goes to the above but people have often "recently" said he doesn't work for movies and tv. Whether here or gaf or wherever, there's always a vocal group that doesn't like Superman and calls him boring then says they need/needed to change his character to fit the times and be more cynical or angry or whatever.
I agree it would be nice to see Batman have more empathy, its nice to see in some of the comics I've read and also the animated series. But I don't get this whole "the character is so wrong" stuff. Its such a myopic mindset to apply to adaptations like this.
But you got a strong opinion on the character, and to each their own. Hope you get that batman movie one day, it seems they're delving even more into the tortured loner stuff with Pattinson's movie, but hopefully that's only one facet of the character in the upcoming films. Or maybe another reboot 10 years from now who knows.
This looks like a proof of concept for the next Snyder directed Superman film.
I wouldn't call MCU Cap a full blown boy scout. He has rebelled against his orders and government before(Civil War), he's also got more of an edge to him and he has no problem killing if it comes down to it. I think he started out boring when he first came into the MCU, but from Winter Soldier on he became a more compelling hero.
He has worked in cinema before and he could have worked out in Zach Snyder's universe if he wasn't snapping necks and knocking down buildings without a care. I liked the action in Man of Steel. You could still have Zod destroying cities. But Superman should at least be making an attempt to minimize casualties.
I hear it said more about the character in general than about any specific medium. Mostly people who don't know anything about the character except what they absorb though pop culture.
For the record, Hulk doesn't really have a good track record in cinema either. His last two solo films were 2008 Hulk, probably the most forgotten film of the whole MCU, and Ang Lee's 2003 travesty. His best moments in the MCU right now are mainly comprised of the short moments he gets in Avengers and Ragnarok.
Yeah, this.
Also, as others have noted:
Cap movies are largely ensemble movies.
Thor movies were pretty bad until he got outclassed power-wise and they went in a completely different direction
Hulk doesn't even get his own movie anymore
I do think Superman can work, but I don't think it's fair to say that he can work because these three worked. I'd also add that for a lot of people (not comic fans obviously) Cap and Thor were pretty much blank slates, while Superman will always have the Reeves portrayal to stand against. The people who feel like that portrayal is too boring probably loved MoS, but there are enough people who grew up with Reeves as "their" Superman that balk at the portrayals of things like Pa Kent.
If he's depowered it's not Superman it's just man.
By the end of the game would you have him powerful enough to destroy a city, and would you allow him to do so?
Exactly this. He's boring because it's the same damn story every time. There's nothing about the character that makes it impossible, it's just bad storytelling.
There have only been two Superman Origin stories though. The first 1978 movie and Man of Steel. Superman Returns was a sequel to Superman II so it didn't had any origin, and all the other movies are sequels with the character already established.
This thread is many years late.
The 'Superman doesn't work for the modern audience' argument was popular by Snyder fans trying to defend his off-putting portrayal of the character back when Mos and BvS were hot topics.
It was obviously bullshit then, and it's just as much now. WB just chose one of the worst possible matchups in Director and character.
The 'Superman doesn't work for the modern audience' argument was popular by Snyder fans trying to defend his off-putting portrayal of the character back when Mos and BvS were hot topics.
It was obviously bullshit then, and it's just as much now. WB just chose one of the worst possible matchups in Director and character.
dont worry op, people have actually said that
that a character that has practically "no flaws" can't be interesting.
i somehow agree, what can you do with supes? he is either defeated by kryptonite or by another kryptonian.
but i think the problem more than anything is the "Franchise" mentality some people suffer, the reason peolpe think is hard to adapt superman, is because like i said before, so he eithers gets defeated by kryptonite or a kryptonian, SO WHAT DO YOU DO WITH MOVIE 2?
kryptonite again?
kryptonian again?
thats the problem, thats the burden the people writing and producing superman movie have, they are thinking about future installmentes instead of just trying to make a good movie about superman.
Agreed. His Superman literally made me a fan of the character (despite flaws in the execution).
While I disagree with most (not all! There are some very valid points IMO) of the Snyder criticism, I would love for him to get another shot, with or without Snyder (BUT with the same awesome soundtrack/leitmotif).
I truly wish we would get Zack's Justice League 2 and 3. He was supposed to be the main hero in the final movie. :(
I love this moment. Reeves is the one guy who can actually make the glasses disguising superman work. Although Brandon Routh wasn't far off in that regard.
We... agree?
All the more proof that Superman is the greatest.
Superman is boring. Those Marvel hero's work bc they're not nearly as perfect as Superman. Batman is a far more interesting character (and Robin) bc he's got more layers than Superman.
Note I don't read all comic books so I'm coming at this from a commoners perspective, so if you're going to say "well activity in..." don't bother.
Note I don't read all comic books so I'm coming at this from a commoners perspective, so if you're going to say "well activity in..." don't bother.
Superman works in the cinema now and on TV.
Most of that wasn't true in the MCU. Hulk was nerfed to the point that of being a jobber. Thor was more of a comic relief man child. Cap was pretty much Cap though. Cap, like Batman, is a much easier character to get right.
Most of that wasn't true in the MCU. Hulk was nerfed to the point that of being a jobber. Thor was more of a comic relief man child. Cap was pretty much Cap though. Cap, like Batman, is a much easier character to get right.
Everyone is already saying it, but Superman and Lois works. I always said I disliked Superman becuase of the boy scout image and being overpowered, but this show humanizes him and is done so well, I can't help but love the work they are doing.
Also no clue how it hasn't fallen into the CW Formula yet. They even had the perfect opportunity to experience the epic highs and lows of high-school football and didn't make me roll my eyes
Also no clue how it hasn't fallen into the CW Formula yet. They even had the perfect opportunity to experience the epic highs and lows of high-school football and didn't make me roll my eyes
Superman can absolutely work in cinema.
Assuming they HIRE SOMEONE WITH TALENT AND A FUCKING CLUE.
Assuming they HIRE SOMEONE WITH TALENT AND A FUCKING CLUE.
Superman can work in any format including cinema and games.
Slightly off-topic but I know Superman is more powerful than Spider-man, but no one complains that Spider-man can't smash walls, beat up or throw pedestrians around in Insomniac's games, which he absolutely could. Shocking the game doesn't let you, which would be fine for a Superman game too. Spider-man/Batman can easily get beaten by common street gangs if you aren't careful but people let that slide too, no reason Superman couldn't be beaten by powerful aliens, robots or armoured enemies if the player isn't careful. It is a game, people are used to the playable portion power levels not always equating with the true power of the character/cinematics.
Slightly off-topic but I know Superman is more powerful than Spider-man, but no one complains that Spider-man can't smash walls, beat up or throw pedestrians around in Insomniac's games, which he absolutely could. Shocking the game doesn't let you, which would be fine for a Superman game too. Spider-man/Batman can easily get beaten by common street gangs if you aren't careful but people let that slide too, no reason Superman couldn't be beaten by powerful aliens, robots or armoured enemies if the player isn't careful. It is a game, people are used to the playable portion power levels not always equating with the true power of the character/cinematics.
Of course he works...that's why there is multiple movies and tv shows about Superman, and just about all of them are good?
It's pretty much just the zack snider superman stuff that's bad, and even then Henry Cavil is great, they are just had movies.
It's pretty much just the zack snider superman stuff that's bad, and even then Henry Cavil is great, they are just had movies.
Yeah it's more that he's just a really good guy with a solid moral compass, which is all you really need for Superman as well. Just make him a really good dude who is always that, there's no moral complexity because his morals are clearly defined, understood, and unwavering. The issue with the last take on superman in the movies is that people are either telling him not to be good because it's risky or are convinced he can't be purely good because they themselves are so jaded.