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Id Software addresses the controversy regarding DOOM Eternal's OST release
- Thread starter Lant_War
- Start date
You disagree? That...what, you think Mick can suddenly create models, artwork and code? Ok then. A lot of people worked on this game. You're throwing them under the bus over this. It's foolish.
that is not what I am referring to and You know It please don't be so disingenuous.
Why would I care about the contract? The final product is what matters to me.
It's obvious that they made a business decision here, that doesn't put them in the right.
I was the one that said "artists" and was specifically referring to them. The other artists and coders that worked on this massive project had constraints too.
Mick fucked up. Mick is the only one that fucked up. iD did the right thing.
Every single game you play is the result of work done under commercial agreements with employees, contractors and so on. They don't happen unless people stick to those agreements. If Gordon failed multiple times to meet his contractual deadlines, as alleged, then this is on him.
Edit: I have already apologized for my post and the tone behind it. I have also made several posts since.
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You realize the soundtrack came out right? So... obviously not impossible, somebody managed it.
In fact:
That right there is a crazy deadline.
So... It's pretty much a clusterfuck, which could be not as bad had the knee jerk reactions didn't sour things up.
I mean, you can clearly see the fallout here comes from how some people at id got attacked because of Gordon's comment.
I mean, you can clearly see the fallout here comes from how some people at id got attacked because of Gordon's comment.
Then he shouldn't have accepted it. This is on him. There's a lot more to this, though.
What you wrote is so insulting, though. Good lord. I'm out. You're unreasonable.
Ive worked as a freelance artist for the games industry in the past and I think its worth repeating that its a mutually agreed upon timeline. If you are given a timeline thats unreasonable you'll tell the employers from the outset. Sometimes this can be different if theres additional circumstances (like being in a rough financial position so you have to take the work no matter what) - but by and large those deadlines are a mutual thing. If Mick thought those deadlines were unreasonable he would have said something.
Whatever resulted in those deadlines being missed is another story, but this is not a case of id being awful corporate overlords that hate art, this is simply how businesses work.
You do not miss your deadlines as a contractor. Thats one of the first rules you learn.
Whatever resulted in those deadlines being missed is another story, but this is not a case of id being awful corporate overlords that hate art, this is simply how businesses work.
You do not miss your deadlines as a contractor. Thats one of the first rules you learn.
Because we don't live in a dreamworld.
Products are created on deadlines.
Contracts are created to make sure deadlines are met.
People that don't want to agree to contracts are free to do so.
People that agree to contracts should do everything in their power to ensure that those deadlines are met.
You're darn right it's a business decision because it's a business. That's called work.
Yeah, the public facing artists like Mick Gordon have so much more pressure and constraints than the ones doing 14 hour days, 6 days a week. I feel so bad for him.
And again, someone managed to finish the soundtrack in time, this was not an impossible deadline that he agreed to. He just didn't hit the deadline.
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There is no clear evidence, just statements from 2 parties who disagree about this matter.
However, I do appreciate Marty backing up Chad, the audio engineer clearly had a job to do, did it and he's been getting shit on for it.
Mick Gordon is great, but losing him won't be the "end" of anything. All you posters, get off the stage with that overly dramatic nonsense.
However, I do appreciate Marty backing up Chad, the audio engineer clearly had a job to do, did it and he's been getting shit on for it.
Mick Gordon is great, but losing him won't be the "end" of anything. All you posters, get off the stage with that overly dramatic nonsense.
Insulting? What? Where?
Also I never said Mick was not at fault here. Only that I was done supporting the series if he was gone.
Lol come on. Musicians don't get a free pass on contractual deadlines. And your post is potentially insulting to coders, programmers and game artists. You can't rush those things either. It's all work.
This statement sounds a lot more authentic than the bitter twitter posts by Mick.
Weird when this story first broke I pictured them fixing it and patching it some how.
Now I'm interested to hear eternal
Now I'm interested to hear eternal
It does, but I'm not going to be overly naive and just take someone's word for it (works both ways of course). All I know is that Mick Gordon isn't working with id (and possibly Bethesda) again.
I agree. Looking forward to whatever comes next. Mick did a fine job in 2016 and Eternal.
Uh what? Do you actually know what you are talking about?
I agreed that it's all work. I'm not saying it isn't. But one is more straightforward than the other in my opinion. A Soundtrack isn't something that can be rushed. That's all I'm saying.
Deeply insulting to pretty much every other person working on the project in every single other profession.
Why is writing code more straightforward than writing music?
It is not straightforward in the slightest and especially for a game like Doom Eternal where they are crafting their own engine in addition to many complicated components. The fact that Doom Eternal runs so well on all platforms at 60 fps and looks great is a work of art in my opinion. That's why I scratch my head when people shit on id and praise Mick's music. They both did a good job at delivering.
This is incredible. My first time hearing it. I absolutely approve!
If that's the way I sounded then I apologise. It's not what I intended. But to me the soundtrack to the game is the most important part of it. A well programmed game is nothing without a good soundtrack to accompany it. And that isn't something you can rush.
Mick is in the wrong for agreeing to the time constraints, but ID Software should have known better than to put him under such restrictions in the first place.
It's posts like this that make me regret even typing this website's url.
What an absolutely stupid take.
A good soundtrack without a game isn't a game. I repeat, what the fuck
Mick delivered in-game soundtrack on-ish time, sounds like even that was very against the wire and ID felt nervous if Mick could deliver on time.
It's standalone OST release where it all went off the rails.
Simply as a person who enjoys the combination of the music and the game - it's a shame. But I do not for a second believe that there isn't someone else who could do just as good of a job of it. Not to throw shade on Gordon at all, but there are a lot of hard-working, professional and talented musicians out there. People put too much stock into names they start to recognize.
Why is it stupid? You can't just ignore the missed deadlines.
Edit: ah you'd quoted me by mistake
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As someone who has released multiple games this is ridiculous. All parts are important in a game. The way you're talking is demeaning to other professions and other art forms, and everything else that goes into a game.
The music itself, the compositions, are fine. They're great even, arguably better than 2016. The controversy has to do with the sound mix on the soundtrack release, basically the way the way audio levels are balanced, how loud it is, the dynamic range etc. A lot of that stuff isn't necessarily things that are easy to hear unless you've got a good sound setup or are particularly versed within audio (brickwalling/loudness war in general is a consumer move made to make audio sound louder and heavier for a casual listener), but if you wanna compare the soundtracks more directly, here's the (properly mixed) version of BFG Division in Doom 2016, and here's the (non-properly mixed) Doom Eternal version.
If you want to hear more of Eternal's tracks themselves, here's two personal favorites.
Nothing on game development is straightforward, god knows I wish that would be the case... but it's not.
You wanna know why crunch happens? Folks begin to think things are as you said, and can be made in a stupid amount of time. So we rush harder than a new CS player, meet the deadline and end up releasing a shit product, filled with bugs.
Not much different to what happened here with Gordon and Id, bad decisions, by bad estimates, by a bad understanding of the scope.
Yeah Mick leaving clipped responses and vaguely going "probably wont work with them again" in twitter dms to random fans (apparently before even saying anything to id if we take marty at his word) makes him look kinda lame (or at least naive of how information travels on the internet). Not like in a "Mick fucked up!" way, cus frankly neither side looks super great in the story but more in a "dude, come on" way.
This is so childish. Have you ever considered that if there was no game to begin with, then you wouldn't have any clue who Mick Gordon is to argue for him? Are you aware that you're placing one singular person above all the other people it takes to put a project like Doom 2016 or Doom Eternal together?
It's insulting to put a single person on a pedestal and absolve him of all responsibilities and hold others accountable to those same responsibilities. It doesn't matter if you're a fan or not. People agree to contracts, if they don't fulfill those contracts then that's on them an no one else.
If they don't like the terms of those contracts, then they don't agree to those contracts.
What you don't do is not follow those terms then throw people under the bus and pretend that you're not responsible for any of it.
Plain and simple.