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I wish PC gamers cared as much about DRM as they do Epic Games Store
- Thread starter OSPC
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If there was a Movies Anywhere for games I would be more receptive to Epic Games Store being a thing. Tim Sweeney talks a big game about that but then seems to dick us out of it anyway.
In that tray alone I have Steam, EGS, Bethesda, Battle.net, Xbox, and GOG. Discord has a freaking store that I don't use. I'm still missing Origin, uPlay, Twitch where I have games.
Like I don't want a dozen fucking clients. I just want a place to get to my games. GOG 2.0 is close but not close enough because it misses most of the Steamworks features which are extremely extensive.
In that tray alone I have Steam, EGS, Bethesda, Battle.net, Xbox, and GOG. Discord has a freaking store that I don't use. I'm still missing Origin, uPlay, Twitch where I have games.
Like I don't want a dozen fucking clients. I just want a place to get to my games. GOG 2.0 is close but not close enough because it misses most of the Steamworks features which are extremely extensive.
OP
OP
Don't get me wrong. Epic Games Store is garbage, but it's a symptom of a much larger problem which is launcher based DRM. A problem that Steam helped to create in the first place. If I'm accusing people of anything, it's of having misdirected anger.
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I try and buy all my games from place for convenience, but it's getting hard and harder to do.
DRM isn't bad if it's unobtrusive, allows you play the game offline and not restrictive down the line.
So far Steam as a DRM platform is the only way I can tolerate. Otherwise I would go back to buying games on disc lol.
DRM isn't bad if it's unobtrusive, allows you play the game offline and not restrictive down the line.
So far Steam as a DRM platform is the only way I can tolerate. Otherwise I would go back to buying games on disc lol.
I am not buying games with Denuvo until they patched it out usually. I go for the console version most of the time.
For me, one of the fundamental necessities of PC gaming is choice. Choice in tweaking settings, freely modifying a (single player) game to your liking, the ability to purchase games from multiple storefronts is important to me. DRM and EGS are entirely different issues.
DRM, on the other hand, I judge by intrusiveness and inconvenience. I don't like DRM, but I am willing to tolerate most of it. It crosses my 'line' when DRM is overly intrusive, hurts performance, or even causes system security or stability issues. That's why I don't typically buy games with Denuvo, for example.
Twisting an apathy for most DRM into an assertion that PC gamers are hypocritical for not also expressing apathy about all of the issues stemming from EGS sounds like a disingenuous argument to me.
DRM, on the other hand, I judge by intrusiveness and inconvenience. I don't like DRM, but I am willing to tolerate most of it. It crosses my 'line' when DRM is overly intrusive, hurts performance, or even causes system security or stability issues. That's why I don't typically buy games with Denuvo, for example.
Twisting an apathy for most DRM into an assertion that PC gamers are hypocritical for not also expressing apathy about all of the issues stemming from EGS sounds like a disingenuous argument to me.
I'm okay with some form of drm as long as it doesn't affect my quality of gaming experience and is unnoticed.
It's why I use steam, I really like gog too it's my second pc platform choice but it's lack of drm is why most games aren't available or available years later. A compromise is needed and that's where steam and consoles fill the gap for me.
When a steam game also has something like denuvo I don't care unless it affects the game performance or my ability to play, so far it has not.
It's why I use steam, I really like gog too it's my second pc platform choice but it's lack of drm is why most games aren't available or available years later. A compromise is needed and that's where steam and consoles fill the gap for me.
When a steam game also has something like denuvo I don't care unless it affects the game performance or my ability to play, so far it has not.
Why would people care about unintrusive DRM like Steamworks?
And a small poll on Era proves absolutely nothing lmao
I buy on GoG whenever possible. I do my part. I like to have my games archived to an external HDD.
Nope, very few games in Steam are free of Steam's DRM, even old games (20+ years) have it. I also detest people telling me what can I do with my games,in general.
With that said, Steam's DRM is more of a feature than a hindrance, it's what allows the in-game overlay and many other features. It can be cracked/removed in a matter of few minutes.
Nope, very few games in Steam are free of Steam's DRM, even old games (20+ years) have it. I also detest people telling me what can I do with my games,in general.
With that said, Steam's DRM is more of a feature than a hindrance, it's what allows the in-game overlay and many other features. It can be cracked/removed in a matter of few minutes.
Lovely disingenuous posts from OP painting folks with a broad hyperbole filled brush, and subsequent posts dismissing extremely justified points.
For me Steam is filled with excellent features I need to play how I want, has excellent price competition, continues to provide additive value to your entire library of games with additional tools and features year on year consistently, and fully supports DRM free content and tools - including Steamworks itself, where CEG is entirely optional.
GOG is great, but simply not competitive in these ways, and thankfully they fully recognise and support user choice to purchase where they want. And EGS is hilariously lacklustre and showing no evidence of being as dedicated to provide continuous iterative
value to their service / library from a customer perspective.
But again, everyone I can tell who actually is playing on PC and not here for platform warrior stupidity, fully support all these competitors existing and simply don't purchase where they don't want to play / don't want to support.
What an outlandish statement that can't possibly hold truth for many! /s
For me Steam is filled with excellent features I need to play how I want, has excellent price competition, continues to provide additive value to your entire library of games with additional tools and features year on year consistently, and fully supports DRM free content and tools - including Steamworks itself, where CEG is entirely optional.
GOG is great, but simply not competitive in these ways, and thankfully they fully recognise and support user choice to purchase where they want. And EGS is hilariously lacklustre and showing no evidence of being as dedicated to provide continuous iterative
value to their service / library from a customer perspective.
But again, everyone I can tell who actually is playing on PC and not here for platform warrior stupidity, fully support all these competitors existing and simply don't purchase where they don't want to play / don't want to support.
What an outlandish statement that can't possibly hold truth for many! /s
I mean, there a literally hundreds of DRM free games on Steam. There are more DRM free games on Steam that there are games in general at some other popular stores.
GOG is cool, but even they offer their own launcher now. It's almost like Steam and similar clients can offer features that are helpful to the end user.
Also Steam's form of DRM is so much of a non-issue that publishers usually choose to put their own DRM on top.
Also, here's an incomplete list of games that are DRM free on Steam.
Also Steam's form of DRM is so much of a non-issue that publishers usually choose to put their own DRM on top.
Also, here's an incomplete list of games that are DRM free on Steam.
The big issue is that your big western publishers are never gonna not have drm. I like to think steam is a decent compromise, but I have older games on steam that still bitch about securom. So given the bullshit implementations in the past, I hardly even view steam as drm (it definitely is).
EGS has no launcher-based DRM. If Steamworks DRM is a paper-thin wrap, the EGS DRM is a puff of egg-smelling caustic smoke.
I can beat the EGS DRM using Notepad. It may as well not exist. It's the only reason the free copy of Subnautica I got off the damn thing is still installed somewhere.
And for the hundredth time, Steamworks is not DRM. Steamworks has a DRM layer, one of the many optional modules it has. It's not as easy to beat as EGS's, but it's still quite trivial - to such an extent that the official Steamworks developer documentation expressly says not to rely on it to deter piracy, and use integration features such as multiplayer matchmaking, friends list integration, Workshop, et al, instead.
Steamworks, more than anything, proves that DRM as a concept, is a non-issue. People will happily tolerate it if it stays out of the way and gives them something in return. Combine that with the notion that, to a developer, some form of copy protection is still beneficial (and many want to have it just for the peace of mind), and you get the sum total of why Steamworks works: it's inobtrusive, easy to work with, easy to work around if need be, and exists for so many more things than just preventing you from playing the game. It's the perfect approach to DRM, and it's been the core idea of Steam since... basically since it started, I think? Started being a store, I mean. It started as a DRM layer for Half-Life 2, and I think its abysmal failure as just a DRM layer, was what nudged Valve to the understanding they reached with the Steam Store.
You can 'hate DRM like Denuvo' and still say it doesn't affect your purchasing habits.
I don't like it, I'd rather it not be there, it's utterly useless and at worst troublesome but it hasn't stopped me from buying a game thus far.
We do care when it gets in the way. A pretty recent example being Bethesda recently added Denuvo and took it out shortly after. Steam's DRM is barely there, the fact that games that come on Steam and use Denuvo shows Steam's approach is practically nothing.
OP
OP
For me personally, because I haven't really ran into any issues at all caused by DRM, it hasn't bothered me. There are potential performance effects, but in my experience I've had good success just lowering a handful of settings down to high instead of ultra and it ends up being good enough to me. As for game preservation, I usually don't go back and replay games that often, so if for example say 10+ years down the line I cannot play an older game, it's not a big deal to me because I'll want to be playing the newest ones anyways.
Again, this is just my experience and personal feelings. I certainly don't love DRM, but I just haven't had bad experiences with it either for me to entirely write off games that have it either. And I believe the average PC player out there feels in a similar manner.
Again, this is just my experience and personal feelings. I certainly don't love DRM, but I just haven't had bad experiences with it either for me to entirely write off games that have it either. And I believe the average PC player out there feels in a similar manner.
I absolutely do not get bothered by DRM at all unless it's one kind, one very, very annoying kind: The stupid one where you have to type in a longass code to activate the game and you can't transfer it to any devices after. I had a video capture software that did it and not only was it terrible due to constantly lagging to check for the DRM, but when i got my macbook moving the thing over to my new computer and having it work was a nightmare and a half, to the point I eventually just got an Elgato.
But otherwise? Pretty much a non-issue. EGS and Steam are both launchers that get the job done, and really the only thing keeping me from playing DRM free games is if they lack achievements, which is why I just stick to Steam for most stuff and EGS for cool exclusives I wanna try like SamSho Collection. A lot of people bitch about Denuvo but it's done nothing to my performance in all the games I've had it in, and I spent a TON of time on Puyo Tetris PC so I would have definitely noticed going from PS4. It does seem to increase the file size a bit, but otherwise I don't care nor have a reason to get mad. Pretty glad redemption code-based DRM is mostly a thing of the past.
But otherwise? Pretty much a non-issue. EGS and Steam are both launchers that get the job done, and really the only thing keeping me from playing DRM free games is if they lack achievements, which is why I just stick to Steam for most stuff and EGS for cool exclusives I wanna try like SamSho Collection. A lot of people bitch about Denuvo but it's done nothing to my performance in all the games I've had it in, and I spent a TON of time on Puyo Tetris PC so I would have definitely noticed going from PS4. It does seem to increase the file size a bit, but otherwise I don't care nor have a reason to get mad. Pretty glad redemption code-based DRM is mostly a thing of the past.
If I was going to complain about Steam it would be the fact that Valve restricts the ability to download mods behind ownership of the game on their platform. Steam is so popular it effectively locks a lot of mods to their platform even when the game (and mod support) isn't exclusive to their storefront.
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I know (not like it could be avoided after the PSX and DC) - the point is that OP is not using console DRM as a talking point about DRM and its issues in good faith, just bloating his loaded and dishonest thesis.
I almost forgot, on this topic, look how awesome it was that Steam players pushed back against the severe DRM and Anti-cheat tools proposed for Doom Eternal after it launched. The existence of Steam's features is a large part of the reason the push back worked in the first place.... but apparently "PC players don't care" or "care more about EGS", when we blatantly see regularly that this isn't the case. Another wonderfully flawed narrative painted as a genuine concern.
Some DRM factors are considered reasonable by some, and others aren't. That's the awesome flexibility and diversity expressed by PC users. On topic of Doom, many people chose not to buy it due to DRM, many others were fine with Denuvo on it's own as an initial solution that may be removed as it has in other games, and others used the unlocked non-DRM exe accidentally dropped or other DRM circumvention techniques that exist.
I rather have this wealth of options and choice over a hardware lock in.
Some DRM factors are considered reasonable by some, and others aren't. That's the awesome flexibility and diversity expressed by PC users. On topic of Doom, many people chose not to buy it due to DRM, many others were fine with Denuvo on it's own as an initial solution that may be removed as it has in other games, and others used the unlocked non-DRM exe accidentally dropped or other DRM circumvention techniques that exist.
I rather have this wealth of options and choice over a hardware lock in.
If can play offline after the download, I don't have a problem with the client
I really can't say this is a deal breaker
Windows Horror Store is the worst in that case, I got disconnected midnight and all games became unavailable.
I really can't say this is a deal breaker
Windows Horror Store is the worst in that case, I got disconnected midnight and all games became unavailable.
This is pretty funny when DRM is the second most controversial thing in pc gaming. I hate Denuvo and other ridiculous DRM but I won't let it stop me from playing a game I want to play. Nowadays a lot of devs are even removing it after the initial sales dry up.
I care about DRM when they impact me, I also buy plenty of games from GOG.
Where does this even come from? DRM are always criticized by the PC community.
Where does this even come from? DRM are always criticized by the PC community.
But it's still DRM, and it still prevents us from copying the games we've bought as we please.
i could care less about drm, i dont pirate games anymore, i buy every single one of them. Denuvo made me do that, so its def been worth it for me. Steamworks is beautiful stuff, all games should have it. EGS on the other hand, ya...screw that shit.
It isn't DRM. Literally.
One component allows it to be DRM and is entirely optional - CEG.
There are thousands of DRM free games on Steam with Steamworks https://steam.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_DRM-free_games
You can copy the games and use them how you want after download.
More to the point you can even do that with CEG games. We've done this before for LAN parties. All Steam is used for is the custom executable. If you already have that saved, you are good to go for a ton of games, or you have Steam auto update it for you.
I do think people like to selectively ignore that Steam releases include Valve-developed DRM in most cases, sure.
It concerns me that I still see a lot of PC gamers taking Valve's old offhand comment regarding them removing Steam DRM if the service ever goes away at face value, lol.
This obviously does not get EGS off the hook in any form.
It concerns me that I still see a lot of PC gamers taking Valve's old offhand comment regarding them removing Steam DRM if the service ever goes away at face value, lol.
This obviously does not get EGS off the hook in any form.
https://fallback.steamworkshopdownloader.io/ ??
im unaware of a single game that is restricted from utilizing a workshop downloader (this is just one of them) then a drag and drop in a folder, since thats all the workshop is doing anyway
even if you have to do that its still easier than it used to be (and doesnt require you to sign up like nexus does now, the jerks)
I'm part of the problem i think
there are some DRM that I think twice beforing buying and generaly speaking a DRM game I will wait for it to get an heavy sale.
That said steam DRM has been so painless that I don't mind it at all. And this is why i'm part of the problem if i ahve the same game on steam or GOG i'll probably buy it on steam. as steam features for me are invaluable. GOG has been getting better and better o i already ahve like 200 games there but steam still offers me more features despite the DRM. I hope i don't regret this decision in a decade or 2
there are some DRM that I think twice beforing buying and generaly speaking a DRM game I will wait for it to get an heavy sale.
That said steam DRM has been so painless that I don't mind it at all. And this is why i'm part of the problem if i ahve the same game on steam or GOG i'll probably buy it on steam. as steam features for me are invaluable. GOG has been getting better and better o i already ahve like 200 games there but steam still offers me more features despite the DRM. I hope i don't regret this decision in a decade or 2
Steam is a platform. I'd personally take that and all it brings (a store, a community, steamworks, steam workshop, steam VR, Steam input controller support, etc etc etc), than have every PC game just being standalone and launched from my desktop.
So, it's not DRM unless someone turns on the DRM part. Also, my understanding that is CEG gives you a binary that's signed for the machine you're running on. So, you need to download a custom exe for each machine. Is that not the case?
Kurt Russell proved you wrong but you just ignored the argument because doesn't fit your narrative of "Steam is drm and therefore bad". Not sure how we would even have a discussion if you are so unwilling to concede a point when you've clearly been proven to be wrong.
the whole thread is based on nonsense anyway so why would he bother
I don't care because it's been an invisible part of the experience for over a decade now, and games aren't required to have it. I care about DRM when I perceive it as imposing negatively on the experience.
I believe you can run a game from an external and move it between computers. You just need to be logged into Steam on those computers too.
I don't care about DRM at all at this point, the only time it matters in my opinion is if it has a performance impact on the game.
As long as the storefront where you buy from is trustworthy then it's doesn't matter, most of the big ones(Valve,Epic,EA,Ubisoft) aren't going anywhere soon so I don't have to worry about losing access.
1-Game price
2-Refund policy
3-Launcher features
That is all I think of.
As long as the storefront where you buy from is trustworthy then it's doesn't matter, most of the big ones(Valve,Epic,EA,Ubisoft) aren't going anywhere soon so I don't have to worry about losing access.
1-Game price
2-Refund policy
3-Launcher features
That is all I think of.
Yeah you've done a pretty decent job of never saying what you mean in this thread and just trying to insinuate it so you have this weak deniability.
Most transparent thread I've seen in a while.
Yeah, those platforms are totally anti-consumer and bring absolutely nothing of value to the player!
Btw: I'm trying to play CS:GO but the game says I need version 1.0.8.2 but I have only 1.0.7.1 installed. Where can I download the 1.0.8.x patch?
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