The Mortis arc was garbage imoSorry but I have to laugh at the Mortis arc being optional. It's literally the one arc that should be mandatory viewing alongside the Grievous eps between AOTC and ROTS.
The Mortis arc was garbage imoSorry but I have to laugh at the Mortis arc being optional. It's literally the one arc that should be mandatory viewing alongside the Grievous eps between AOTC and ROTS.
I agree season 1 and 2 were slow but clone wars beginning was even worse. Rebels has my favorite cast. Even the droids were really good. Sabine was a strong character.For me at least...
Those of course are the broad strokes, I don't want to get into specific spoilery things in this topic for people who are just experiencing these shows for the first time.
- It was way too kid-targeting. Early episodes established a world where the Empire really didn't feel like a threat even though the story kinda wanted them to be. They also weren't allowed to show deaths on screen or even say the words "die" or "kill" IIRC.
- The plotlines are too simplistic due to most of the stories being only one episode/20 minutes, which means they aren't allowed to be very complex, nor do they have any time to really develop the characters. Not coincidentally, just about all of the best episodes are the two parter 40 minute stories... of which there are very few in the first two seasons.
- None of the primary characters are remotely well developed until season 3. I really didn't care about any of them early on bar Hera, who was inherently likable.
- Zeb especially is just a completely nothing character until a late season 2 episode, where he finally gets SOMETHING... but he doesn't get much more than that the entire rest of the series.
- It's kind of funny that Sabine actually gets literally nothing for the first two seasons, even less developed than Zeb essentially, and then they over-corrected and made her the most developed character on the show in season 3. That isn't a negative, just weird and whiplashy... I actually do look forward to a new show where she is a main protagonist, because she's actually a good character at this point.
- Ezra never became, at least for me, a super interesting or likable protagonist. He's incredibly generic and early on especially was a poster child for the annoying kid trope.
The series was mostly elevated by returning characters from Clone Wars, all of who we had a greater connection to and were better developed. Like, every time one of them showed up it instantly became more interesting (and often, slightly darker). Though there were still a couple returning characters that I feel like were too sparsely used considering they brought them back... a certain former-Sith being the main one I'm talking about. I mean, they brought him back, implied there would be some big story with him, and then only featured him in like 4 episodes, I believe? It kinda came across as 'why bother?' Of course, I still enjoyed the end of it.
Overall I feel like Rebels season 3 and 4 were a better version of the show than 1 and 2 -- Thrawn was a good consistent antagonist, they actually focused on developing the characters, there were many stories that were allowed to be more than one episode... And maybe if it had been like that from the beginning my opinion of the series would be a bit higher. But that's only half the series! Even at that point, I still felt the child-lock was on in comparison to Clone Wars.
Nah, I don't agree. I mean, I do agree that Season 1 and 2 of Clone Wars were the weakest, and also more kid-targeting... but they were not half of the series. They also were still better than Rebels' first two. Even with a lot of weak episodes, at least they had stories that went more than 20 minutes long. At least they developed some of the characters. Season 2 of TCW especially started to have some pretty good arcs like Geonosis, Death Watch, and Death Trap. Nothing in Rebels' first two seasons comes close to those. Rebels wishes it had a random episodic arc as good as something like 'Zillo Beast'. Even directly comparing 20 minute episodes, Rookies does a better job at developing a cast of characters and telling a pretty good (though still simple) story in one 20 minute episode than Rebels does in an entire season.I agree season 1 and 2 were slow but clone wars beginning was even worse. Rebels has my favorite cast. Even the droids were really good. Sabine was a strong character.
I thought most of the ideas / scenes developped in TLJ were garbage, but that doesn't make them any less canon or important.
I mean if you like the themes of a story told with the subtlety of a nuclear bomb then sure
Whether you personally like it or not, they are not episodes people should be told to skipI mean if you like the themes of a story told with the subtlety of a nuclear bomb then sure
For me at least...
Those of course are the broad strokes, I don't want to get into specific spoilery things in this topic for people who are just experiencing these shows for the first time.
- It was way too kid-targeting. Early episodes established a world where the Empire really didn't feel like a threat even though the story kinda wanted them to be. They also weren't allowed to show deaths on screen or even say the words "die" or "kill" IIRC.
- The plotlines are too simplistic due to most of the stories being only one episode/20 minutes, which means they aren't allowed to be very complex, nor do they have any time to really develop the characters. Not coincidentally, just about all of the best episodes are the two parter 40 minute stories... of which there are very few in the first two seasons.
- None of the primary characters are remotely well developed until season 3. I really didn't care about any of them early on bar Hera, who was inherently likable.
- Zeb especially is just a completely nothing character until a late season 2 episode, where he finally gets SOMETHING... but he doesn't get much more than that the entire rest of the series.
- It's kind of funny that Sabine actually gets literally nothing for the first two seasons, even less developed than Zeb essentially, and then they over-corrected and made her the most developed character on the show in season 3. That isn't a negative, just weird and whiplashy... I actually do look forward to a new show where she is a main protagonist, because she's actually a good character at this point.
- Ezra never became, at least for me, a super interesting or likable protagonist. He's incredibly generic and early on especially was a poster child for the annoying kid trope.
The series was mostly elevated by returning characters from Clone Wars, all of who we had a greater connection to and were better developed. Like, every time one of them showed up it instantly became more interesting (and often, slightly darker). Though there were still a couple returning characters that I feel like were too sparsely used considering they brought them back... a certain former-Sith being the main one I'm talking about. I mean, they brought him back, implied there would be some big story with him, and then only featured him in like 4 episodes, I believe? It kinda came across as 'why bother?' Of course, I still enjoyed the end of it.
Overall I feel like Rebels season 3 and 4 were a better version of the show than 1 and 2 -- Thrawn was a good consistent antagonist, they actually focused on developing the characters, there were many stories that were allowed to be more than one episode... And maybe if it had been like that from the beginning my opinion of the series would be a bit higher. But that's only half the series! Even at that point, I still felt the child-lock was on in comparison to Clone Wars.
So with Mando S2 coming up I'm gonna try and fit in Clone Wars S6 and S7 and maybe Rebels too before my 3 month sub expires. Is there a watchlist for Rebels or do I have to watch the whole thing
Watch the whole thing. Some may argue most of season 1 is skippable, but I disagree, since it helps you get to know the characters.So with Mando S2 coming up I'm gonna try and fit in Clone Wars S6 and S7 and maybe Rebels too before my 3 month sub expires. Is there a watchlist for Rebels or do I have to watch the whole thing
Did you watch the rest of clone wars before S6? If you haven't, especially for Mando stuff, I would highly recommend at least watching S5 (apart from the droid arc) as well.So with Mando S2 coming up I'm gonna try and fit in Clone Wars S6 and S7 and maybe Rebels too before my 3 month sub expires. Is there a watchlist for Rebels or do I have to watch the whole thing
I'd say watch all of Rebels.So with Mando S2 coming up I'm gonna try and fit in Clone Wars S6 and S7 and maybe Rebels too before my 3 month sub expires. Is there a watchlist for Rebels or do I have to watch the whole thing
The thing about the unimportant episodes of Rebels is that it does a lot of world building and really helps sell the crew as a family.So with Mando S2 coming up I'm gonna try and fit in Clone Wars S6 and S7 and maybe Rebels too before my 3 month sub expires. Is there a watchlist for Rebels or do I have to watch the whole thing
How the hell is Lost Commanders skippable?Did you watch the rest of clone wars before S6? If you haven't, especially for Mando stuff, I would highly recommend at least watching S5 (apart from the droid arc) as well.
For Rebels I think most of S1 is skippable. As far as Mando-important stuff there isn't anything until S3, but I wouldn't miss out on the season 2 finale... provided you've seen season 5 of Clone Wars AT LEAST.
EDIT:
This isn't a horrible guide all things considered, though I really do believe there are even more skippable episodes than even this guide suggests... but at least it cuts out the truly painful ones:
It isn't saying it's skippable. The way I read the guide, the only "skippable" episodes are the ones greyed out. Ie, episodes like "Idiot's Array" or "Always Two There Are".How the hell is Lost Commanders skippable?
Plot is side story but really important characters link up with the crew in that episode
Going to use this, thanksDid you watch the rest of clone wars before S6? If you haven't, especially for Mando stuff, I would highly recommend at least watching S5 (apart from the droid arc) as well.
For Rebels I think most of S1 is skippable. As far as Mando-important stuff there isn't anything until S3, but I wouldn't miss out on the season 2 finale... provided you've seen season 5 of Clone Wars AT LEAST.
EDIT:
This isn't a horrible guide all things considered, though I really do believe there are even more skippable episodes than even this guide suggests... but at least it cuts out the truly painful ones:
So with Mando S2 coming up I'm gonna try and fit in Clone Wars S6 and S7 and maybe Rebels too before my 3 month sub expires. Is there a watchlist for Rebels or do I have to watch the whole thing
I was watching the show weekly back then, butDid you watch the rest of clone wars before S6? If you haven't, especially for Mando stuff, I would highly recommend at least watching S5 (apart from the droid arc) as well.
For Rebels I think most of S1 is skippable. As far as Mando-important stuff there isn't anything until S3, but I wouldn't miss out on the season 2 finale... provided you've seen season 5 of Clone Wars AT LEAST.
EDIT:
This isn't a horrible guide all things considered, though I really do believe there are even more skippable episodes than even this guide suggests... but at least it cuts out the truly painful ones:
Did you watch the rest of clone wars before S6? If you haven't, especially for Mando stuff, I would highly recommend at least watching S5 (apart from the droid arc) as well.
For Rebels I think most of S1 is skippable. As far as Mando-important stuff there isn't anything until S3, but I wouldn't miss out on the season 2 finale... provided you've seen season 5 of Clone Wars AT LEAST.
EDIT:
This isn't a horrible guide all things considered, though I really do believe there are even more skippable episodes than even this guide suggests... but at least it cuts out the truly painful ones:
Yep.I always feel like charts like this are basically for people who only care about plot and not character development.
You're obviously going to miss small beats of character moments by skipping any episode, but as you can plainly see even with that guide, not that much is cut out. Rebels especially is basically a saturday morning cartoon in the early goings that HAS NO character development outside of Ezra and Kanan. That's actually one of my biggest complaints with the whole series. Hera runs heavily on her personality but they barely get into developing her. Sabine essentially doesn't exist until season 3, when finally they then turn her into a great character over those final two seasons. Zeb never has development. Chopper is a droid. So really all you're missing, especially in the early goings, are these pre-established character archetypes interacting -- which is not a big loss.I always feel like charts like this are basically for people who only care about plot and not character development.
Oh you are correct I misread it.It isn't saying it's skippable. The way I read the guide, the only "skippable" episodes are the ones greyed out. Ie, episodes like "Idiot's Array" or "Always Two There Are".
Not everyone has infinite time. Like I said earlier, just cutting the 12 episodes that guide recommends would save you over 4 and a half hours. I also don't believe anyone could make a good argument that episodes like "Droids in Distress" are worth the time investment or give you -any- greater character development or inform later "important moments".I don't even get why you'd skip through a series which has 20-25 minute episodes. Some aren't as important no but what you get in character development and world-building is definitely worth the time invested.
There are so many subtle references in Star Wars that lots of emotional/important moments later on would just be robbed of their significance if you skipped past the moments where the seeds were sown.
My guess is of the Rebels characters, she is just the one who hasn't been otherwise earmarked for future use in TV/Film. And considering how Rebels ends, that makes sense. (Staying vague given multiple people in this topic have not yet seen the show)One thing I didn't realize from Rebels is that Hera Syndulla has a bunch of appearances in other media. I'm currently reading the Alphabet Squadron books and playing Squadrons on PC and she is in both.
One thing I didn't realize from Rebels is that Hera Syndulla has a bunch of appearances in other media. I'm currently reading the Alphabet Squadron books and playing Squadrons on PC and she is in both.
It's rather good. But please watch the whole series.who the hell is making these guides lol
this thread is great though, now i might actually give these series a chance
And for everyone who whines about people using guides and how you should just watch it all: this is exactly why the guide exists.I had to bail after a few episodes. It felt too muchh like children's programming. The Jar Jar and Padme episode was the breaking point. If a show is good I shouldn't need a chart to watch it.
Did you watch the rest of clone wars before S6? If you haven't, especially for Mando stuff, I would highly recommend at least watching S5 (apart from the droid arc) as well.
Makes sense! What did you think of season 5? S6 (and 7) still has a lot of great episodes left, but I feel like S5's strength is partially why TCW has left a lot of people with such a strong impression.Yeah, I watched through S5 earlier this year. I always intended to watch the rest of Clone Wars but I wanted to wait until S7 was out but then I decided to just wait for Mando S2 because I didn't want to pay for Disney+ just for 2 seasons of Clone Wars.
I had to bail after a few episodes. It felt too muchh like children's programming. The Jar Jar and Padme episode was the breaking point. If a show is good I shouldn't need a chart to watch it.
This is on my show bucket list. I should get with it, especially with Mandalorian coming out.
If it's any consolation, I don't think Rebels ever touches and of Clone Wars' lows. Especially if you enjoy the OT.Thanks for your input everyone! I think I will follow TDLink's guide because some of those early Clone Wars episodes were rough AF and turned me off the series for several years. I figure if I really like the show I can just go back and watch the 12 episodes that the guide recommends skipping.
Yeah, I watched through S5 earlier this year. I always intended to watch the rest of Clone Wars but I wanted to wait until S7 was out but then I decided to just wait for Mando S2 because I didn't want to pay for Disney+ just for 2 seasons of Clone Wars.
If it's any consolation, I don't think Rebels ever touches and of Clone Wars' lows. Especially if you enjoy the OT.
See untill the final season of Clone Wars, Rebels personally had the highest highs(Twilight of the Apprentice, World Between Worlds, Family Reunion and Farewell)Personally, in terms of the canon cartoons, I'd say Clone Wars is allover the map in terms of quality but it's highs are REALLY high and it gets better and better with each season, Rebels is never as good or as bad but takes way longer to get amazing, and Resistance seems to be incredibly consistent at being 'that was ok' (though I haven't seen Season 2 yet).
Once Season 3 hits in Clone Wars the only episodes that aren't great, if I recall, are ones that tried to do something utterly insane and didn't pull it off. I don't remember Rebels getting good outside of season premiers/ends until the Rogue One crossovers started happening, and even then only the last season got close to the highs of Clone Wars.
See untill the final season of Clone Wars, Rebels personally had the highest highs(Twilight of the Apprentice, World Between Worlds, Family Reunion and Farewell)
But at the same time, the series is a bit hamstrung by its younger target audience, and a lot of things are implied instead of shown, which is annoying compared to Clone Wars, which was just like, fuck it, watch this.
I think that is very debatable. There are some pretty stinky Rebels episodes. And I think the normal 20 min storytelling time (vs variable, up to over a hour when we are talking about 4 episode arcs that Clone Wars has) really holds back the series across the board.If it's any consolation, I don't think Rebels ever touches and of Clone Wars' lows. Especially if you enjoy the OT.
Personally, in terms of the canon cartoons, I'd say Clone Wars is allover the map in terms of quality but it's highs are REALLY high and it gets better and better with each season, Rebels is never as good or as bad but takes way longer to get amazing, and Resistance seems to be incredibly consistent at being 'that was ok' (though I haven't seen Season 2 yet).
Once Season 3 hits in Clone Wars the only episodes that aren't great, if I recall, are ones that tried to do something utterly insane and didn't pull it off. I don't remember Rebels getting good outside of season premiers/ends until the Rogue One crossovers started happening, and even then only the last season got close to the highs of Clone Wars.
Sure I mostly agree with this. I think a further thing that hamstrung Rebels is that a very significant portion of its highs, including its highest highs, are basically coasting off of Clone Wars' highs as well. They had a hard time making the core Rebels cast as compelling as the Clone Wars cameos/recurrences throughout, until towards the very end.Yeah, I kind of agree with both of you. On average, Rebels is better than Clone Wars, but I think its highs are more moments than episodes until late into the series.
Like, for me, just seeing that first lightsaber light up, and it's the thin one from the OT was a huge moment, and that was in the first episode! Or having Darth Vader show up and finally not be some loser jobber was really nice to see, too.
But at the same time, the series is a bit hamstrung by its younger target audience, and a lot of things are implied instead of shown, which is annoying compared to Clone Wars, which was just like, fuck it, watch this.
I think that is very debatable. There are some pretty stinky Rebels episodes. And I think the normal 20 min storytelling time (vs variable, up to over a hour when we are talking about 4 episode arcs that Clone Wars has) really holds back the series across the board.
Sure I mostly agree with this. I think a further thing that hamstrung Rebels is that a very significant portion of its highs, including its highest highs, are basically coasting off of Clone Wars' highs as well. They had a hard time making the core Rebels cast as compelling as the Clone Wars cameos/recurrences throughout, until towards the very end.
Chopper was better than he had a right to be as a non-talking astromech droid character, but he was still a non-talking astromech droid. It could only be taken so far. Zeb had about two episodes total where they came close to actually giving him some development but ultimately he never was more than exactly what you see in episode one. I felt Sabine was treated the EXACT same way until season 3 when they suddenly did do work with her, so she ultimately ended up well. Hera was better by comparison to all of those, but not really because of real development she had (she is effectively the same character throughout the entire series), but more just because she has a really inherently likable personality.It is kind of confounding to me how misused Zeb and Chopper felt for much of the show. Chopper they eventually got working, but Zeb was simultaneously the 'butt monkey' and the tragic 'last of his kind' which never gelled well for me. I just wanted the poor guy to get a break.
Hera/Sabine/Kanan were fantastic though, and I never disliked Ezra as much as I thought I would (especially towards the end).
Makes sense! What did you think of season 5? S6 (and 7) still has a lot of great episodes left, but I feel like S5's strength is partially why TCW has left a lot of people with such a strong impression.
Glad you stuck with it to the end, and did end up liking it! I completely understand your criticisms, and agree with them. Barriss did feel like a major dropped ball, not just for that series, but also since that series. The way her story ended in season 5 makes it clear they had bigger plans for the character... and yet I don't think it is spoiling anything to say they still have yet to follow that up in any way.I finished the series last night~
The show definitely improved as it went on, though not to the degree that I fully understand the rabidity of the fanbase. It goes to some dark places, but it's still very much a kid's show ("the movies are for kids too" blahblah) with character development and plotting nowhere near as strong as I'd have liked.
Like, take the final arc of S5Barriss Offee, who previously shared some screen time with Ahsoka in S2 but hadn't been given anything to do since, frames Ahsoka for the bombing of the Jedi Temple which results in her being hunted, etc. But like, the show had barely invested in Barriss, so her inclusion in this arc and the subsequent betrayal lacked impact. It came across as kind of like "...Oh, she still exists? And she's bad now? Ok." It's clearly supposed to have had a major effect on Ahsoka too, but outside of that one arc 3 years prior (!), we never saw their friendship depicted on screen so it doesn't really come across with the intended gravity. Imagine if Barriss had been a recurring character for a few seasons beforehand - how much greater an impact her betrayal would have made on the audience (and in turn, the characters). Instead, the linchpin to the most important arc in the series came across as an afterthought, which is really just inexcusable.
Anakin's turn in RotS also just doesn't mesh with his portrayal in Clone Wars (even factoring in the Utapau arc where he does some questionable things). In the final arc, Clone Wars Anakin goes off screen for 3 episodes and then he's suddenly Darth Vader at the end. I thought they'd have better merged the two Anakins (show and movies) by the end, but it was still super jarring. And the fact thatthe series ends with Ahsoka just being like "Anakin became a sith lord overnight and all the jedi are dead cool better just fake my own death now" left me a tad baffled. She didn't, like, try to find Anakin to see if it was true? I get that she's in Rebels and maybe that happens there (Rebels ended years ago and S7 was this year, so if that's the case maybe the writers just assumed viewers already knew what happened in Rebels), but it was still an odd way to end the series. Seems like they could have used 1 more episode to delve into the fallout of everything.
Anyway, I don't want to seem too down on the show, as I did enjoy quite a bit of it. My favorite arcs were easily the ones involving the clone troopers - Cadets, Kamino, Umbara, Clone Conspiracy, and Bad Batch. I skipped over a lot of the stuff people said was bad (most of the Jar-Jar and Droid arcs) so I'd say my least favorite arcs were the ones involving Padme. Special shoutout goes to Gungi and Byph - where's their spin off.
7 = 5 > 4 > 6> 2 > 3 > 1