I want to play Lunar, but Working Designs translations keep stopping me.

[Valcrist]

I grew up on JRPGs. My parents would never buy me games though, I had to rent them. I never once saw either of the Lunar games in a rental store, so I didn't grow up on Working Designs translations. Fast forward to now, when I finally have some of the games... Lunar, Lunar 2, Albert Odyssey.. I really can't play them because the translations annoy me severely. At the time, Working Designs was proud of spicing up that dry dialogue... but all I see is pop culture references thrown in haphazardly. Does directly quoting a tootsie roll pop commercial instead of putting in what the NPC actually said help build the lore of the world of Lunar? Naw, not really. It's not funny, it's not interesting. It's less interesting than dry dialogue to me. Albert Odyssey is another example of just... pure suffering trying to read. Dear god.

 

[Siman shinsafe]

Nothing worse than translator's humour.

Ace Attorney is filled with this trash aswell.

 

[MrWindUpBird]

Shame. You're missing out on some of the best games out there. Your loss.

 

[Geode]

My god, that homeboy picture is horrible. I hate when dialogue is localized like this. These games need a new translation.

 

[Toth]

I have some good news for you!

Lunar: Eternal Blue Unworked patch (Sega CD, version 2.0) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

This is the 2.0 release of the unworked enhancement patch for Lunar: Eternal Blue for the Sega CD which was originally released in 1995 by Working...

archive.org

 

[Laxoon]

I feel you. Like I think I prefer when the dialogue to a big rpg is interesting to read but WD usually went too far. Hard to be picky with big, pretty 2D jrpgs of this era tho.
Haven't played Arc the Lad 1-3 or Alundra in an actual decade but I know they were responsible for those too. Don't remember if they were as bad as Albert Odyssey/Lunar but don't feel like they were.

 

[Robin64]

Yeeeah, some old fan translations are really cringey and just plain awful.

 

[Mivey]

My god, that homeboy picture is horrible. I hate when dialogue is localized like this. These games need a new translation.

Click to shrink...

Maybe it's just staying true to the source material? If the Japanese original was equally annoying and full with puns, then I don't see any issue.

 

[spman2099]

Working Designs was known for their "colorful" translations. Some people really dig them, others hate them. Most of us begrudgingly ignore the extremely flaccid humor and generally appreciate the majority of the translation (even if there are WAY too many corny, immersion breaking "jokes"). When it comes to Working Designs, this has always been the way...

Maybe it's just staying true to the source material? If the Japanese original was equally annoying and full with puns, then I don't see any issue.

Click to shrink...

Working Designs is famous for taking MASSIVE liberties with their translations.

 

[Jonathan Lanza]

That Ebonics one was no doubt written by the whitest boy to ever white.

 

[RoyalJL]

I recommend checking the un-Working Designs patches:

Un-Worked Designs - stargood

stargood.org

There are patches for the Lunar games and others.

 

[oni-link]

Out of interest, what's the best way to play the Lunar games in 2021?

 

[Valkerion]

I don't mind them, I played them as a kid and enjoyed them and even as an adult where I notice them more, doesn't actually stand as what I remember about these titles. I know some can't unsee them though.

 

[werezompire]

Working Designs at its worse was still better than the vast majority of JRPG localizations at the time.

 

[Layla]

I grew up on JRPGs. My parents would never buy me games though, I had to rent them. I never once saw either of the Lunar games in a rental store, so I didn't grow up on Working Designs translations. Fast forward to now, when I finally have some of the games... Lunar, Lunar 2, Albert Odyssey.. I really can't play them because the translations annoy me severely. At the time, Working Designs was proud of spicing up that dry dialogue... but all I see is pop culture references thrown in haphazardly. Does directly quoting a tootsie roll pop commercial instead of putting in what the NPC actually said help build the lore of the world of Lunar? Naw, not really. It's not funny, it's not interesting. It's less interesting than dry dialogue to me. Albert Odyssey is another example of just... pure suffering trying to read. Dear god.

Click to shrink...

There's a lot of translators working in the VN industry at the moment who are doing similar things, putting in current memes and references that will age as well as milk. e.g. I wonder what people in 20 years time will make of people being referred to as "chads".

 

[MrWindUpBird]

Out of interest, what's the best way to play the Lunar games in 2021?

Click to shrink...

I find the original Sega CD versions to be the best ones to play as the remakes on Saturn/PS1 lost a bit of the charm in the transition. That being said, it's a lot easier to find copies of the PS1 versions for decent prices compared to the Sega CD ones.

 

[Musubi]

Yeah can't blame you OP. Shit is straight up embarrassing.

 

[oni-link]

I find the original Sega CD versions to be the best ones to play as the remakes on Saturn/PS1 lost a bit of the charm in the transition. That being said, it's a lot easier to find copies of the PS1 versions for decent prices compared to the Sega CD ones.

Click to shrink...

Have they never been released digitally? I'm surprised they're not on PS3 PSN or something

 

[DPB]

Working Designs at its worse was still better than the vast majority of JRPG localizations at the time.

Click to shrink...

I'll take them over the barely comprehensible dialogue in Breath of Fire 2 and Wild Arms 2.

 

[Nall]

I never really minded it. It's all just pointless NPC dialogue. If it was in important, story-relevant cut scenes or something, I'd be annoyed, but it's fairly harmless the way it is.

 

[Valcrist]

Working Designs at its worse was still better than the vast majority of JRPG localizations at the time.

Click to shrink...

I really don't even see how directly quoting a bunch of pop culture stuff counts as a translation.

 

[sir_crocodile]

There's this for the first game on the saturn:

Lunar SSS & SSSC MPEG Releases

Staring a new thread to better keep track of patches for lunar. This first post will link to the latest patches. I'll try to fix bugs as they are found, no promises as to timeframe as ive been rather busy lately. Lunar SSSC MPEG Dub Patch v0.75...

segaxtreme.net

I think they were using WD as a base but had a translator to change anything that was inaccurate. Haven't tried it myself since it's still in beta though, so I don't know if the changes address the stuff in the OP.

I have some good news for you!

Lunar: Eternal Blue Unworked patch (Sega CD, version 2.0) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

This is the 2.0 release of the unworked enhancement patch for Lunar: Eternal Blue for the Sega CD which was originally released in 1995 by Working...

archive.org

Click to shrink...

OP was complaining about the translation, not the gameplay changes though, afaik the unworked stuff is gameplay-only.

 

[Outrun]

It was a different time when these were translated.

 

[Aska]

I never minded before, but now that you brought it up, yeah that's quite cringey.

 

[Valkerion]

Also now that I think about it, this kind of translation is still done in a ton of games, just not to this level maybe. There's a ton of references in games still that will go over peoples heads even in 5 years haha.

 

[MrWindUpBird]

Have they never been released digitally? I'm surprised they're not on PS3 PSN or something

Click to shrink...

I don't believe so. There is a PSP remake of the first game that can be found for pretty cheap physically but I'm not sure if it's been released digitally and it's honestly not a very good game.

 

[Xater]

Working Designs at its worse was still better than the vast majority of JRPG localizations at the time.

Click to shrink...

Probably, but the pop culture stuff is just super cringe. Now even mor than back then.

 

[bombermouse]

I agree it's cringey but I think it's silly to expect games to be timeless. They reflect the times they were created in and that's way more interesting.

Still, cringe jokes and sad if they took too many liberties.

 

[werezompire]

I really don't even see how directly quoting a bunch of pop culture stuff counts as a translation.

Click to shrink...

Because the pop culture references are only a small part of the total dialogue (and much of it is used to spruce up boring optional NPC dialogue in towns). Also, in many cases where you see a silly pop culture joke, there was something similar in tone in Japanese that wouldn't have been funny or made any sense if it was directly translated (I don't know if this is specifically the case with WD's games but it's common in game localizations).

When I played Lunar: Eternal Blue on the Sega CD the first time it was a revelation. Here was a JRPG with fun & interesting dialogue. Here was a game where characters had actual personalities. Ronfar, Lemina, Jean, Ruby, and Leo all feel like very different characters because of the way they express themselves. In comparison to games of the time like Breath of Fire 2, Wild Arms 2, and Robotrek where the dialogue was frequently wrong and barely intelligible.

With something like Chrono Trigger, the characters' visual designs & musical themes do most of the heavy lifting for characterization. The dialogue isn't bad, but there aren't strong voices for each character & the amount of dialogue per character is low. Whereas in Lunar:EB, your party members are constantly talking in towns & responding to every major story beat. And Chrono Trigger's localization was one of the better ones of the era.

 

[Wereroku]

I don't believe so. There is a PSP remake of the first game that can be found for pretty cheap physically but I'm not sure if it's been released digitally and it's honestly not a very good game.

Click to shrink...

The psp version isn't very good. Though it does have a brand new translation if OP is interested.

 

[My Blue Heaven]

victor ireland loved putting like bill clinton and MTV jokes in his games or whatever. he's a hack with a weird, sometimes vocal following.

 

[sir_crocodile]

When I played Lunar: Eternal Blue on the Sega CD the first time it was a revelation. Here was a JRPG with fun & interesting dialogue. Here was a game where characters had actual personalities. Ronfar, Lemina, Jean, Ruby, and Leo all feel like very different characters because of the way they express themselves. In comparison to games of the time like Breath of Fire 2, Wild Arms 2, and Robotrek where the dialogue was frequently wrong and barely intelligible.

Click to shrink...

You'll fish with your lod and like it

 

[arcadepc]

If someone could patch the translations into the Korean Windows version with the higher fmv ,song and artwork quality.

 

[werezompire]

I haven't played it myself, but I hear the mobile version of the first Lunar game is decent. It's basically a modified version of the PS1 game but with the cutscenes & voice acting from the PSP game. Unless you want to play the PSP version (which is brutally easy & also has an issue with music where the songs go out when you switch rooms), that's your main way of getting it digitally now.

Unfortunately, there's no digital version of Lunar: Eternal Blue and you just have to track down the Sega CD, Playstation, or Saturn (Japan-only) physical copy, along with something that can play it. It's a shame since I think that's by far the best game in the series.

 

[Valcrist]

Because the pop culture references are only a small part of the total dialogue (and much of it is used to spruce up boring optional NPC dialogue in towns). Also, in many cases where you see a silly pop culture joke, there was something similar in tone in Japanese that wouldn't have been funny or made any sense if it was directly translated (I don't know if this is specifically the case with WD's games but it's common in game localizations).

When I played Lunar: Eternal Blue on the Sega CD the first time it was a revelation. Here was a JRPG with fun & interesting dialogue. Here was a game where characters had actual personalities. Ronfar, Lemina, Jean, Ruby, and Leo all feel like very different characters because of the way they express themselves. In comparison to games of the time like Breath of Fire 2, Wild Arms 2, and Robotrek where the dialogue was frequently wrong and barely intelligible.

With something like Chrono Trigger, the characters' visual designs & musical themes do most of the heavy lifting for characterization. The dialogue isn't bad, but there aren't strong voices for each character & the amount of dialogue per character is low. Whereas in Lunar:EB, your party members are constantly talking in towns & responding to every major story beat. And Chrono Trigger's localization was one of the better ones of the era.

Click to shrink...

Maybe that's why I had to be there. I'd take CT's localization style over this. Ted Woolsey could have easily made the Lunar games a banger for me. But like, one of the characters being the butt of a ton of harsh fat jokes that weren't even funny for instance doesn't appeal to me. Is it like that in the original? It just reaches the point of being consistently mean-spirited.

I wasn't able to get that far because of stuff like this. It's just hard for me to read. It's really unfortunate because a lot of my friends love the games, and I love Grandia for instance. If that were a WD translation, I probably wouldn't have liked Grandia as much.

 

[My Blue Heaven]

working designs raised the standard for localization but also brought it down at the same time because victor ireland thought using beavis and butthead jokes to fill in the margins of the localization was a great idea. it wasn't and immediately ages any game they ever localized

 

[MrWindUpBird]

The psp version isn't very good. Though it does have a brand new translation if OP is interested.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, it was honestly a big disappointment. I played it back on release because, well, I'll buy anything and everything that is Lunar but I was so let down by it I never finished it. Hell, I finished the GBA game and that was an even worse "remake."

 

[BasilZero]

This thread reminds me that there is no actual modern platform that has any Lunar games and that makes me sad....


When Grandia has a modern port and not Lunar, you know the owners of Lunar screwed up.

 

[Keym]

You're blowing this way out of proportion OP. Most of the pop culture references in Lunar are limited to optional NPC dialogue. You can play the whole game without running into most of them. The rest of the translation is a complete stand out for what the standard was back then.

 

[My Blue Heaven]

if yall want working designs at their 90s cringe worst play albert odyssey, i'm pretty sure 50% of that localization is basically 90s references and invented kneeslapper jokey bullshit

 

[Begaria]

It's been a long time since I've played Lunar and Lunar 2 but I honestly don't remember much, if any, cultural pop references in those games. It's played pretty straight for the most part within the lore of the games.

 

[sredgrin]

I love that so many people are focusing on the pop culture jokes and not the uh, blatant racism.

 

[werezompire]

I tried to talk the current rights holders into letting us make a new Lunar game (either 3 or a spin-off), but it never went very far. We also tried recreating Lunar:EB scenes in 2.5D graphics - I think that's a style that looks really nice & wouldn't be horribly difficult for a small indie team like ours to pull off.

I wasn't able to get that far because of stuff like this. It's just hard for me to read. It's really unfortunate because a lot of my friends love the games, and I love Grandia for instance. If that were a WD translation, I probably wouldn't have liked Grandia as much.

Click to shrink...

The Grandia that we got wasn't terrible (other than the voice acting which is laughably bad), but if Working Designs had done it, we might have gotten the superior Saturn version which was technically a lot better than the PS1 port that did come over.

Oh and something worth knowing about Working Designs is that their pop culture references really die down with time. They're not really a thing in the later Working Designs games. By Arc the Lad Collection & Growlanser, it's not really a thing.

Albert Odyssey is probably the worst for pop culture references (which is probably for the best to be fair - the game is pretty bland otherwise).

 

[Deleted member 3010]

Tbh the WD translations are part of what made these games so good.

 

[My Blue Heaven]

Tbh the WD translations are part of what made these games so good.

Click to shrink...

oh man the npc made a monty python joke, epic reference my good sir

 

[Lothars]

I think the translations that Working Designs did kind of took what the original translation and in the areas that wouldn't make sense to directly translate made it their own thing. I don't see anything wrong with it and I don't get how it can turn you off the whole game.

 

[MrWindUpBird]

I tried to talk the current rights holders into letting us make a new Lunar game (either 3 or a spin-off), but it never went very far. We also tried recreating Lunar:EB scenes in 2.5D graphics - I think that's a style that looks really nice & wouldn't be horribly difficult for a small indie team like ours to pull off.





The Grandia that we got wasn't terrible (other than the voice acting which is laughably bad), but if Working Designs had done it, we might have gotten the superior Saturn version which was technically a lot better than the PS1 port that did come over.

Oh and something worth knowing about Working Designs is that their pop culture references really die down with time. They're not really a thing in the later Working Designs games. By Arc the Lad Collection & Growlanser, it's not really a thing.

Albert Odyssey is probably the worst for pop culture references (which is probably for the best to be fair - the game is pretty bland otherwise).

Click to shrink...

Did you guys ever send this as a proof of concept to the rights holders? It looks great.

 

[My Blue Heaven]

I think the translations that Working Designs did kind of took what the original translation and in the areas that wouldn't make sense to directly translate made it their own thing. I don't see anything wrong with it and I don't get how it can turn you off the whole game.

Click to shrink...

the working designs style of inserting their own overbearing nerd personalities and love of pop culture references has been pushed out of the industry and rightfully so. there is a reason victor ireland is now basically unknown and translates garbage JP games where the license probably costs less than a bag of dog food.

yall can buy summon night 6 or whatever it is now, i'm sure gaijinworks desperately needs the money lol

 

[gnexus]

I loved the Lunar games and didn't mind the translations as a kid back in the early 00's... but looking at them now. Wow, why so racist? Wtf? I guess I missed the "homeboy" and "ebonics" ones back then..

Pop culture references and dated references like that I don't mind, but come on now.

 

[Lothars]

the working designs style of inserting their own overbearing nerd personalities and love of pop culture references has been pushed out of the industry and rightfully so. there is a reason victor ireland is now basically unknown and translates garbage JP games where the license probably costs less than a bag of dog food.

Click to shrink...

Working Designs worked on some incredible games and their translations are still good. It's fine not to like then but It doesn't mean they are bad.