I want to like Ghost in the Shell (95) but it keeps putting me to sleep.

[Astral]

Tonight I rewatched the original Ghost in the Shell film after about 8 years or so. The first time I watched it, I remember not really understanding certain things and just spacing out. This time I fell asleep, but to be fair I was tired. A lot of the political and bureaucratic stuff was totally lost on me. Lots of names and titles being thrown around that I didn't quite understand. So overall I didn't understand the overarching plot. What I did understand is the Major's character and struggles about her existence. That stuff was super interesting to me and was the best part of the movie besides the gorgeous animation. It's because of that that I can't say it was bad or that I hated it. But man does it make me feel dumb lol.

I'm also trying to give Stand Alone Complex a rewatch. I watched it on and off when it was on Adult Swim but I remember hating it because si never knew what was going on. Lots of talking and exposition that I didn't understand as a kid. I watched the first episode today and was able to follow the first half but then got totally lost in the second when they starts involving political figures and dropping their names and titles like I'm supposed to know what they're saying.

I wanna love it because I think the setting and the Major are cool as hell, but man does it make me feel dumb.

 

[Jason Frost]

Sleep on it, maybe you will like it more tomorrow.

 

[Dreamboum]

It's a short movie that has a lot to say. It's impossible to comprehend the full depth of what it has to say in one sitting. There are things that are said at the beginning that only makes sense in the context of the full movie.

In any case, none of this should prevent you from getting the theme of the movie about identity, the advent of a post-gender society and what really makes someone human.

 

[kurahador]

That's pretty much how good cyberpunk setting go unfortunately in my experience. I get the same feeling the first time I watch Blade Runner as it really wasn't what I expected.

SAC gets better as it goes on, no worries. The 1st episode really just there to overwhelms you. The rest of the series is very much flows normally. Same goes for the first movie. 2nd movie Innocence is the only one in the series that get super heavy on philosophical shit. Just watch that one for the visual.

 

[Dark Ninja]

It's just about a horny program that wants to fuck The Major. Then they do. The End. It's great.

 

[Deleted member 82064]

I found the movie extremely boring. I still love the art and animation of it. Same story with Akira. Wouldn't even bother with them if not for great visuals.
But I feel different about Stand Alone complex, really liked it, except for the art.

 

[iAmPossum]

I loved the atmosphere but whatever they were saying kinda flew over my head 80 percent of the time. Youtube GITS analysis helped fill in the gaps.

 

[coldsagging]

Watched it twice and dont get the hype at all.

 

[pizzabutt]

There's nothing bad about falling asleep to a movie, sometimes it's the best way to enjoy something. If you really wanna understand the plot you should read up on it before watching, that way you can keep up the next time you try to watch it.

 

[Mr.Deadshot]

I am having a bit of a hard time with many anime as well. Took me several tries to push through this and Akira as well. These are very stylish movies, but they are also a bit on the slow side. But I have this problem with Anime in general. Especially with TV shows which almost always seem to be paced poorly. There are exceptions of course (Terror in Tokyo, Devilman Crybaby immediately come to mind).

To be honest as far as I am concerned with Cyberpunk/Sci-Fi-Thriller Anime I always prefered Paprika and the lesser-known Spriggan over Akira and GITS.
You should check those two out:

 

[Hektor]

Uzzy show'em

 

[Deleted member 9932]

Which part didn't you understand? The film is fairly straightforward and concise.

 

[hiredhand]

If you feel like that about the first one, do not under any circumstance watch the second film. It basically ramps up to eleven all those things you were confused about.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

If you really wanna understand the plot you should read up on it before watching, that way you can keep up the next time you try to watch it.

Click to shrink...

This is good advice for the series as well, which constantly gets bogged down in hard to parse sociopolitical technobabble. Even just reading the basic premise of the episode (and not necessarily how it resolves) can help a lot.

 

[Akira86]

watch it as soon as you wake up

 

[Fatoy]

If you feel like that about the first one, do not under any circumstance watch the second film. It basically ramps up to eleven all those things you were confused about.

Click to shrink...

I love the second film as a piece of art, but it's basically impenetrable.

 

[KillLaCam]

Its awesome but sounds like its just not for you

 

[MrChom]

The film is a kind of navel gazing pretentious lens to look at the story through, sadly that's a recurring thing with Oshii's films. He takes far longer to spin out simple concepts than he should do, and from my point of view a lot of people seem to view his awkward pacing and circumlocution of the plot as quality.

GitS is by no means a bad film in my eyes, it just bumbles around the point. It's got amazing animation but in an art style I don't like, and one that robs the world of the colour and grunge of Shirow's original manga. Honestly if you want to get the feel of GitS but the movie is sending you to sleep then go and watch Ghost in the Shell Stand Alone Complex. It has stories form the GitS universe compressed into 25 minute episodes, and is none the worse for it.

 

[Shiloh]

The series, SAC, explores the themes more in depth, and better I think

 

[danmaku]

It's a slow movie. Oshii doesn't like action sequences and he put them in GITS 1 and 2 just because the audience needs them. 2 is even slower than the first one.
From what I remember, SAC is way easier to follow but also feels rushed. The original manga is a clusterfuck of technobabbles and endless side notes that do nothing but increase the confusion.

 

[phaze]

It's an overrated movie with a really disappointing and tedious storyline and plenty of dull exposition. There's worth in Major's arc but IIRC even that has issues.

 

[Chivalry]

It's one of the slowest, most boring anime movies out there, and it's completely up its own ass too. Overrated as hell, but looks and sounds good. It's literally anime Blade Runner, with all the cons.

 

[Luap]

I watched this movie for the first time recently and was somewhat underwhelmed as well.

The animation/art direction was fantastic though.

 

[NullPointerException]

Whatever floats your boat OP. It's a captivating film and tv series (for me) but even if you didn't understand/get what was in the film then or at least it didn't intrigue you to look into the subject further online then it's ok. It just wasn't something you're into and that's ok. Plenty of other anime TV shows and films to get into.

 

[Zoantharia]

It's a slow movie. Oshii doesn't like action sequences and he put them in GITS 1 and 2 just because the audience needs them. 2 is even slower than the first one.
From what I remember, SAC is way easier to follow but also feels rushed. The original manga is a clusterfuck of technobabbles and endless side notes that do nothing but increase the confusion.

Click to shrink...

That makes a lot of sense, actually. Always felt the action scenes were the weakest parts of those movies.

FWIW, OP, I personally preferred Ghost in the Shell 2 to the original movie. Maybe it's worth giving that one a shot.

 

[Messofanego]

I bet you'd hate Blade Runner too 😛

That makes a lot of sense, actually. Always felt the action scenes were the weakest parts of those movies.

FWIW, OP, I personally preferred Ghost in the Shell 2 to the original movie. Maybe it's worth giving that one a shot.

Click to shrink...

If OP can't handle the pacing, philosophy, and dialogue of 1, they'd be in the deep end with 2 lol but I love both films and the series because of the political intrigue, neo-noir atmosphere, existentialism, and stunning visuals that you can just bask in. It's not just "wow cool future" cyberpunk that has infected derivative works like Altered Carbon.

Nightstalker for days


If anyone else isn't turned off by the slow pace and themes, they should check out Serial Experiments Lain. It's haunting and stuck with me for years.

 

[Asklepios]

Damn! I swear I could have made this thread. It's a running joke between me and a friend who is also a sci-fi fan that Ghost in shell series will always remain my blind spot because I simply cannot get through it without dozing off. I have tried 4-5 times now.

It's just too 'anime' for me.

 

[Messofanego]

It's just too 'anime' for me.

Click to shrink...

No, Mamoru Oshii's work is in contrast to anime tropes and even Hollywood. Anime isn't usually slow paced, minimalist, mostly devoid of sexual fanservice, avoiding high school settings, and full of meditative themes and political intrigue.

It's no surprise that he's influenced by European filmmakers and art films like Ingmar Bergman, Fellini, Godard, Kawalerowicz, and Russian master of long takes, existentialism, and humanist themes Andrei Tarkovsky himself.

Mamoru Oshii - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[NullPointerException]

Anime isn't usually slow paced, minimalist, mostly devoid of sexual fanservice, avoiding high school settings, and full of meditative themes and political intrigue.

Click to shrink...

This is kinda the reason why I appreciate it. I personally can't get into typical anime.

 

[Arex]

Second one is even more slower of a movie, but looks really nice lol.

 

[Daniel Westlake]

I mean it's just a boring goddamn movie that's what it is.

 

[Duo VII]

The movie takes its time and if you don't have the patience to appreciate that, then shit. Don't watch a movie when you're tired.

 

[Great Deep Sea]

If you think its boring, don't think the sequel will be any better lol

 

[Uzzy]

That's a shame OP, but don't feel embarrassed. It's a pretty dense film and series. Nothing wrong with watching them in English (if anything I prefer the English dub for SAC) and having Wikipedia open to check up on what's being said alongside the show.

 

[Unaha-Closp]

I watched it for the first time too recently and I enjoyed it enough and my main takeaway was - 'wait don't end the movie there! Let's go see what this means and what happens...' but that might be where the subsequent material goes I don't know. That is an ultra surface non-reading of it I know and I am sure it has layers and metaphors going over my head. Which is fine. I enjoyed it enough as I said.

 

[Deleted member 5865]

Watch the TV show (Stand Alone Complex) and pretend Major isnt running around in a skimpy outfit for no reason

 

[Deleted member 82064]

No, Mamoru Oshii's work is in contrast to anime tropes and even Hollywood. Anime isn't usually slow paced, minimalist, mostly devoid of sexual fanservice, avoiding high school settings, and full of meditative themes and political intrigue.

It's no surprise that he's influenced by European filmmakers and art films like Ingmar Bergman, Fellini, Godard, Kawalerowicz, and Russian master of long takes, existentialism, and humanist themes Andrei Tarkovsky himself.

Mamoru Oshii - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Click to shrink...

It's a shame he is pretty much done with anime. Patlabor 2 is probably my favorite anime movie... Well on another day, I would go with Perfect Blue or Millennium Actress. His run with Urusei Yatsura is also great. He did have some anime project underway, hopefully it pans out good.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

I dislike the movies but consider S.A.C series one of the all time best.

 

[lunarworks]

It's a shame he is pretty much done with anime. Patlabor 2 is probably my favorite anime movie... Well on another day, I would go with Perfect Blue or Millennium Actress. His run with Urusei Yatsura is also great. He did have some anime project underway, hopefully it pans out good.

Click to shrink...

The two (there are only two) Patlabor movies are wonderful with their political intrigue. I loved them.

 

[LiK]

it's a slow burn. I watched it mainly for the animation.

 

[Bing-Bong]

After reading the manga with all the side-notes included (they could be it's own entire book, really), i think it's better to read that before watching the anime and OVAs. At least you can read at your own pace and have more time to think about whats going on on those pages.

 

[Davidion]

I mean, it felt confusing when I watched it too, but that's because I watched it when I was a high school kid oblivious to structure. Watching it now, it's perfectly good and makes sense.

Doesn't really matter though; you're into what you're into, and it's fine. Standard to-each-their-own shit. Part of the appeal of the anime is the aesthetics anyways and it's fine.

 

[FnordChan]

OP, you are not alone. I like the first GitS movie but keep nodding off partway through. I get through the big opening sequence, fall asleep shortly afterward, and then generally wake back up in time for the finale. I've seen the whole thing at different times, admire the film, and have a lot of respect for it, but I obviously don't love it.

It's not that I dislike slower films or Oshii in particular, either; I love the Patlabor movies, for example, and P2 is not what you would call fast paced. I dunno what it is and wish I found GitS to be more captivating than I do.

A quick anecdote: The North American theatrical premiere of Ghost in the Shell took place at AnimeEast '95, with a bunch of folks at the convention, myself included, being bussed over to a nearby theater to see a print of the dub before it had a wider theatrical release. This was incredibly exciting for all concerned - but due to the logistics of getting everyone to the theater the film didn't actually start until close to midnight. I looked up about halfway through the movie and half of the audience had completely passed out.

 

[Astral]

OP, you are not alone. I like the first GitS movie but keep nodding off partway through. I get through the big opening sequence, fall asleep shortly afterward, and then generally wake back up in time for the finale. I've seen the whole thing at different times, admire the film, and have a lot of respect for it, but I obviously don't love it.

It's not that I dislike slower films or Oshii in particular, either; I love the Patlabor movies, for example, and P2 is not what you would call fast paced. I dunno what it is and wish I found GitS to be more captivating than I do.

A quick anecdote: The North American theatrical premiere of Ghost in the Shell took place at AnimeEast '95, with a bunch of folks at the convention, myself included, being bussed over to a nearby theater to see a print of the dub before it had a wider theatrical release. This was incredibly exciting for all concerned - but due to the logistics of getting everyone to the theater the film didn't actually start until close to midnight. I looked up about halfway through the movie and half of the audience had completely passed out.

Click to shrink...

Lol that's exactly my experience. It's always somewhere around after the chase that I start dozing off and by the tank scene I'm back in to enjoy the ending, which I really like. Again the theme of identity and humanity I really enjoyed and that's why I think overall I liked and understood most of the movie. But once they started technobabbling and talking about politician x and government y I was just like

That was my experience with the second half of the first episode of SAC too. As a kid it was worse but I'm hopeful I'll understand it more now.

I should've mentioned that I loved Bladerunner and Bladerunner 2049. The former did take a couple watches to understand though. And 2049 is possibly my favorite movie of all time.

I am having a bit of a hard time with many anime as well. Took me several tries to push through this and Akira as well. These are very stylish movies, but they are also a bit on the slow side. But I have this problem with Anime in general. Especially with TV shows which almost always seem to be paced poorly. There are exceptions of course (Terror in Tokyo, Devilman Crybaby immediately come to mind).

To be honest as far as I am concerned with Cyberpunk/Sci-Fi-Thriller Anime I always prefered Paprika and the lesser-known Spriggan over Akira and GITS.
You should check those two out:

Click to shrink...

I've watched Paprika like 3 times (loved it) but never heard of Spriggan. I feel you a little bit on Akira but it was way easier to sit through because it simply had more action scenes and practically no technobabble.

 

[Tavernade]

I liked it when I watched it for the first time this year but primarily for the animation which I thought was astounding.

The story was fine, but I think for me the themes were presented too low-key to make a big impact? Like, I get it in retrospect but the story itself never clicked for me, especially going in with the knowledge of it being a huge classic (by comparison I watched Evangelion for the first time last year and it hooked me right away, insofar as classic anime stuff goes).

 

[808s & Villainy]

I liked it when I watched it for the first time this year but primarily for the animation which I thought was astounding.

The story was fine, but I think for me the themes were presented too low-key to make a big impact? Like, I get it in retrospect but the story itself never clicked for me, especially going in with the knowledge of it being a huge classic (by comparison I watched Evangelion for the first time last year and it hooked me right away, insofar as classic anime stuff goes).

Click to shrink...

What part of the themes didn't click? I'm always interested when I hear this because there still aren't any other cyberpunk series that tackle the themes GITS does. GITS are one of the few worlds where cyberization is normalized, whereas every other one that talks about it seems from the extent of it being bad.

At it's core GITS is about "what makes a person human when their entire body can be cyberized?" and deals with this through various stories and lenses, and it still seems fairly unique in that regard

 

[Astral]

Ok I freaking loved episode 2 of SAC. Extremely engaging throughout. If the whole show is like this then I'm sold.

 

[Weltall Zero]

The movie is relatively easy to follow. The original manga, on the other hand, had me entirely lost as to what was happening more than once. Granted, I was like 15 and the Spanish translation was not that great, but still.

 

[Dice]

Mamoru Oshii films are very chatty. Maybe that's an aspect.

 

[Blade30]

I need to re-watch the movie and SAC, it's been quite some time since I've watched it.