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thomasmahler

Game Director at Moon Studios
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
1,097
Vienna / Austria
It's 2020. It's been 13 years since the introduction of the iPhone and thus the start of the smartphone craze that's still going on and in all that time, we've never seen a well-thought out approach when it comes to one of the big firms making a proper gaming phone.

What I basically want is something like the old Xperia Play, an Android device with a slide-out panel that has some awesome controls built in.

Wouldn't it be time for companies like Microsoft or Sony to tackle something like that? There's tons of kids playing Fortnite, Minecraft and other games on their smartphone, it seems like there ought to be a huge addressable market? The Switch is selling gangbusters, why not give this kinda idea another try?

I mean, I'm a gamer. If I have the choice between buying a regular phone or a phone that's also a great gaming device, I'd probably pick the latter. I'm okay with a phone that's a little thicker if it has some kickass controller built in, wouldn't you?

And let's get back to the Xperia Play for a second. That thing actually wasn't half-bad:

www.youtube.com

The Playstation Phone - The Sony Ericsson Xperia Play | MVG

In 2011 Sony Ericsson released the Xperia Play. An Android smartphone with elements of a Sony handheld game console that is very similar to the design of it...

It just came out too early and Sony supported that thing even worse than they supported the Vita. Yes, those Analog discs were garbage, but the slide-out mechanic is still way, way, way better than any of the current solutions on the market.

And please don't point me to the Frankenstein devices, the cheap clips, the Junglecat, the Kishi, etc. - they're all the equivalent of the shitty third party controllers we bought for cheap in the 8/16bit days in order to play games together. They're just never high quality devices that are fun to game on. The clip solutions are all top-heavy and insanely unergonomic. And yes, I've tried them all, I have an insane amount of plasticky crap devices lying around here and none of them are what I'd consider good enough. Not to mention that schlepping some controller attachments around with me all day is just never gonna happen.

Streaming is coming. 5g is coming. Todays phones pack a shit ton of power - Merging a phone with a first-class portable gaming device seems like such a no brainer, I'm honestly still amazed that nobody has come up with the right solution yet. To me, this seems like such an obvious, huge market gap, I really, really don't get it. Instead we get silly foldable phones with dual-displays that nobody wants or needs.

It is time, Microsoft, Sony or Nintendo. Gaming on phones could be so much better than it is now...
 

WillyFive

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,976
Gaming phones are already a thing. Something with a slide out panel with buttons would feel so dated and gimmicky.
 

Deleted member 63122

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 16, 2020
9,071
They have made quite a few, but it was always received like mobile games aren't real gaming. Now you can get Xcloud.
 

oni-link

tag reference no one gets
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,015
UK
I got you

1024px-Nokia-NGage-LL.jpg

Edit: dammit, Maxey
 

jon bones

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,998
NYC
I love the concept, but unless Apple comes on board I don't think I'll ever make the jump. It's just not worth the trade off to switch to Android.


I will say that League of Legends: Wild Rift at 120 fps on a 6.7" OLED (according to upcoming 12 Pro Max rumors) + AirPods Pro is a truly mind blowing concept for me. If Riot can execute on this, I may finally have my "gaming phone" set up.
 

WillyFive

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,976
Show me one that comes with a great input solution. Calling something a gaming phone without any buttons is ludicrous.

Then you don't really want a gaming phone. The touch screen is the input solution, as the games you play on phones use touch screens. You probably are looking for a Switch that has calling capabilities and can fit in a pocket.
 

BasilZero

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
36,343
Omni
No company is gonna burn money to make a gaming dedicated phone when regular phones can run games and when there are dedicated game consoles specifically one that is selling hot that can be portable like the Switch.
 
OP
OP
thomasmahler

thomasmahler

Game Director at Moon Studios
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
1,097
Vienna / Austria
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Delusibeta

Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,648
Physical controls for phone games is still very niche, and there are plenty of good phone controllers out there that you can add onto any arbitrary phone. I don't see what a specific phone that includes physical controls achieve that a controller accessory bundled into the box can't.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,714
No company is gonna burn money to make a gaming dedicated phone when regular phones can run games and when there are dedicated game consoles specifically one that is selling hot that can be portable like the Switch.

To add to this, no one is going to make a dedicated gaming phone when both android and iOS already pair up with xb1 and ps4 controllers with no hassle.
 
OP
OP
thomasmahler

thomasmahler

Game Director at Moon Studios
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
1,097
Vienna / Austria
Then you don't really want a gaming phone. The touch screen is the input solution, as the games you play on phones use touch screens. You probably are looking for a Switch that has calling capabilities and can fit in a pocket.
The Touch Screen is a bullshit solution for games. Always has been, always will be, so your whole argument is wrong. I want a phone that I can use like any other phone and use its power to also play games when I want to, instead of having to carry multiple devices around.
 
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oni-link

tag reference no one gets
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,015
UK
Then you don't really want a gaming phone. The touch screen is the input solution, as the games you play on phones use touch screens. You probably are looking for a Switch that has calling capabilities and can fit in a pocket.

Yeah I feel like a Switch is probably going to be better. A phone is better without buttons and most phones seem to struggle to hold a charge for more than a day after they're a year old anyway.

It would be pretty cool, but a lot of mobile games are built for touch so it's not that much of an issue. The games that are best with buttons will always be better with buttons

I still lug a Vita around with me in my work bag, and that's fine to be fair. A phone sized system wouldn't be big enough and adding buttons or adding them onto a phone with a peripheral is more of a faff
 

freakybj

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,428
I wouldn't want a phone with a built in controller. I'd rather just pair a controller via bluetooth. Whatever "gaming phone" that comes out won't be as good as the latest iPhone or Samsung Galaxy. I'd rather get a top tier smartphone rather than a phone that's good enough but has a built in controller that I'd rarely use.
 

Huey

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,181
Show me one that comes with a great input solution. Calling something a gaming phone without any buttons is ludicrous.
Don't you feel like broad controller support is the best balanced solution for having a nice form factor when you're not using it for gaming and then having that option when you want to play? I realize it's not ideal when you're on a train but I just can't see any other solution balancing form factor and actually reasonable fidelity controls. That's always been the challenge (and getting people to make exclusive games...)
 
OP
OP
thomasmahler

thomasmahler

Game Director at Moon Studios
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
1,097
Vienna / Austria
No company is gonna burn money to make a gaming dedicated phone when regular phones can run games and when there are dedicated game consoles specifically one that is selling hot that can be portable like the Switch.
That's like saying 'Nobody is gonna make a smartphone cause there's already PDA's around!'. No, convenience should win. There's no reason why a phone couldn't also deliver the kinda gaming experiences that the Switch delivers.
 

BeI

Member
Dec 9, 2017
5,974
Would be nice if there was something out there that could elegantly combine both a phone and controller in one device without needing additional add ons or anything. So two joysticks, a dpad, ABXY, bumpers / triggers, start / select, and a home button; no gimmicky touchpads or touch screens to replace physical buttons. Could something like that be made that would also be small enough to fit in a pocket (but also be more comfortable than a Win GPD)? Maybe something slide out like OP suggested, so the phone is a bit bulkier by default when all the gaming stuff is hidden.
 
OP
OP
thomasmahler

thomasmahler

Game Director at Moon Studios
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
1,097
Vienna / Austria
Don't you feel like broad controller support is the best balanced solution for having a nice form factor when you're not using it for gaming and then having that option when you want to play? I realize it's not ideal when you're on a train but I just can't see any other solution balancing form factor and actually reasonable fidelity controls. That's always been the challenge (and getting people to make exclusive games...)
No, because all the current setups are an ergonomic nightmare. The slide-out thing that the Xperia Play had was the right idea, it'd just need a good revision and proper support.
 

spineduke

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
8,745
That's like saying 'Nobody is gonna make a smartphone cause there's already PDA's around!'. No, convenience should win. There's no reason why a phone couldn't also deliver the kinda gaming experiences that the Switch delivers.

Do you think if ASUS offered a gaming phone with analog inputs, it could sell enough to offset the additional production costs to have it made?

Fuck it, even if Apple did, do you think it would receive enough mass adoption from the gaming audience?
 

giapel

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,593
I mean, define awesome controls. If you expect dual analog on a phone... I don't know where you would put them. Even the switch struggles to put decent ones on
 

Strandr

Member
Oct 12, 2019
540
Is the issue you have with phones and attaching a controller the kind where you use your already owned Xbox One/PS4 controller and clip the phone to the top?

What do you think of controllers like the Razer one that have the format similar to a Switch?
 

Deleted member 46489

User requested account closure
Banned
Aug 7, 2018
1,979
It's 2020. It's been 13 years since the introduction of the iPhone and thus the start of the smartphone craze that's still going on and in all that time, we've never seen a well-thought out approach when it comes to one of the big firms making a proper gaming phone.

What I basically want is something like the old Xperia Play, an Android device with a slide-out panel that has some awesome controls built in.

Wouldn't it be time for companies like Microsoft or Sony to tackle something like that? There's tons of kids playing Fortnite, Minecraft and other games on their smartphone, it seems like there ought to be a huge addressable market? The Switch is selling gangbusters, why not give this kinda idea another try?

I mean, I'm a gamer. If I have the choice between buying a regular phone or a phone that's also a great gaming device, I'd probably pick the latter. I'm okay with a phone that's a little thicker if it has some kickass controller built in, wouldn't you?

And let's get back to the Xperia Play for a second. That thing actually wasn't half-bad:

www.youtube.com

The Playstation Phone - The Sony Ericsson Xperia Play | MVG

In 2011 Sony Ericsson released the Xperia Play. An Android smartphone with elements of a Sony handheld game console that is very similar to the design of it...

It just came out too early and Sony supported that thing even worse than they supported the Vita. Yes, those Analog discs were garbage, but the slide-out mechanic is still way, way, way better than any of the current solutions on the market.

And please don't point me to the Frankenstein devices, the cheap clips, the Junglecat, the Kishi, etc. - they're all the equivalent of the shitty third party controllers we bought for cheap in the 8/16bit days in order to play games together. They're just never high quality devices that are fun to game on. The clip solutions are all top-heavy and insanely unergonomic. And yes, I've tried them all, I have an insane amount of plasticky crap devices lying around here and none of them are what I'd consider good enough. Not to mention that schlepping some controller attachments around with me all day is just never gonna happen.

Streaming is coming. 5g is coming. Todays phones pack a shit ton of power - Merging a phone with a first-class portable gaming device seems like such a no brainer, I'm honestly still amazed that nobody has come up with the right solution yet. To me, this seems like such an obvious, huge market gap, I really, really don't get it. Instead we get silly foldable phones with dual-displays that nobody wants or needs.

It is time, Microsoft, Sony or Nintendo. Gaming on phones could be so much better than it is now...
I feel you OP. Screw the naysayers. Touch gaming is bullshit. What we need is a great input solution. Forget streaming. There are so many games on android/ios that use a virtual joystick, and all of them would be better with physical controls.
 

ChristianM

Member
Mar 21, 2018
478
Sweden
The Touch Screen is a bullshit solutions for games. Always has been, always will be, so your whole argument is wrong. I want a phone that I can

Well, I would like to agree with you but watching my 8 year old niece play roblox with touch controllers made me realise something. I'm old and out of touch. Seriously though, the way she navigated the game was mind blowing.
 

AGoodODST

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,480
Eh I doubt any company will make this as the solutions are already there.

Plus who is this really for? The amount of people looking for a phone for gaming is going to pretty small. People play games on phones because they already want a phone to use as a phone. Not specifically to play games. Any device that as to accommodate full controls plus being a phone is going to be compromised somewhere, specifically ergonomically.
 

WillyFive

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,976
The Touch Screen is a bullshit solutions for games. Always has been, always will be, so your whole argument is wrong. I want a phone that I can use like any other phone and use its power to also play games when I want to, instead of having to carry multiple devices around.

That might make sense to you, but playing phone games with buttons is incredibly niche, which is why gaming phones don't come with them. Some companies make holders to attach Bluetooth controllers to it, or Switch-like devices that attach to the phones; but they are not built in because it is incredibly niche. The gaming phone audience grew up playing touch screen games, and it wont make sense to add that bulk to something thats supposed to be in your pocket.

The "phone that I can use like any other phone and use its power to also play games when I want to, instead of having to carry multiple devices around" already exist (a bunch of them that compete with each other) from big brands like RoG and Legion (that are also gaming PC brands). They wont have buttons though because it would ruin the phone.
 
OP
OP
thomasmahler

thomasmahler

Game Director at Moon Studios
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
1,097
Vienna / Austria
Fuck it, even if Apple did, do you think it would receive enough mass adoption from the gaming audience?
Are you kidding? If Apple would come out with an iPhone with a slide out thing similar to the Xperia Play, OF COURSE that'd be HUGE. That'd be like Apple waging war directly with Nintendo. I'd be soooo in, of course I'd buy that over a normal iPhone. Wouldn't even need to think about it. But that's never gonna happen since Apple hates gaming.

For this to be realistic, it'd need to come from Microsoft, Sony or Nintendo.
 

bionic77

Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,888
The mobile gaming market is already pretty huge. Probably bigger than the conventional market.
 

Parham

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
295
The mobile gaming market is already pretty huge. Probably bigger than the conventional market.
This is a big factor. As long as the mobile games market continues to grow the way it has, there isn't much incentive to expand out and make a "proper" gaming phone. It's pretty clear that most folks who want to play traditional games on a handheld device will just opt for a Switch and the rest will continue to play touch-based games on their phones.
 

Irrotational

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,136
Are you kidding? If Apple would come out with an iPhone with a slide out thing similar to the Xperia Play, OF COURSE that'd be HUGE. That'd be like Apple waging war directly with Nintendo. I'd be soooo in, of course I'd buy that over a normal iPhone. Wouldn't even need to think about it. But that's never gonna happen since Apple hates gaming.

For this to be realistic, it'd need to come from Microsoft, Sony or Nintendo.
Microsoft are going to stream you the game, Nintendo haven't heard of the Internet OR mobile phones and Sony expect you to buy a PS5.

I'm afraid no-ones going to make you what you want :(

I'd like one too though...
 
OP
OP
thomasmahler

thomasmahler

Game Director at Moon Studios
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
1,097
Vienna / Austria
It's pretty clear that most folks who want to play traditional games on a handheld device will just opt for a Switch and the rest will continue to play touch-based games on their phones.

'It's pretty clear that people who want PDA's buy PDA's, the rest will just buy regular phones like they always have. There's no reason to build a smartphone.'

You in 2006.
 

Akauser

Member
Oct 28, 2017
833
London
No company is gonna burn money to make a gaming dedicated phone when regular phones can run games and when there are dedicated game consoles specifically one that is selling hot that can be portable like the Switch.

Wait for this I'll probably end up getting this once its available in my region.



The Lenovo Legion headline specs

16g Ram
Spandragon 865+
512gb Internal Memory
Upto 144hz Amoled display (240hz sample rate)
90w Charge with 2 split 5000mAh battery with dual charging 0-100% in 30 Mins
 

BadAss2961

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,069
I just Bluetooth the DualShock 4 and profit. Have a case with a kickstand to hold the phone up.

Any phone with "good" controls for gaming built-in is gonna look corny and won't function as well as a DS4 anyway.
 

spineduke

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
8,745
There are entire genres of games that could be huge on mobile that you could never play with a touch screen. Why is everybody so stuck on the status quo?

Think of this - you're in an investor meeting and you have pitch your videogame phone concept to them. You need to convince them of the millions of untapped sales that this thing can launch. Past attempts have failed miserably. It's gotta have physical controls as per your pitch. How would you do yours differently enough to succeed?
 

Deleted member 46489

User requested account closure
Banned
Aug 7, 2018
1,979
This is a big factor. As long as the mobile games market continues to grow the way it has, there isn't much incentive to expand out and make a "proper" gaming phone. It's pretty clear that most folks who want to play traditional games on a handheld device will just opt for a Switch and the rest will continue to play touch-based games on their phones.
"This is a big factor. As long as the cell phone market continues to grow the way it has, there isn't much incentive to expand out and make a tablet. It's pretty clear that most folks who want a larger screen will just opt for a laptop and the rest will continue to use cell phones."

IyXXg0y_d.webp
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,324
OP
OP
thomasmahler

thomasmahler

Game Director at Moon Studios
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
1,097
Vienna / Austria
Think of this - you're in an investor meeting and you have pitch your videogame phone concept to them. You need to convince them of the millions of untapped sales that this thing can launch. Past attempts have failed miserably. It's gotta have physical controls as per your pitch. How would you do yours differently enough to succeed?
If I'd be someone at MS pitching this to Phil, here you go:

'The Switch will sell over 100m units. Everyone needs a phone. Everyone who tried to make gaming phones before approached the subject with 0 taste or understanding of the market. Touchscreens are an extremely poor input device for most games. Our goal is to use the Surface Team to create a phone that's also a first class gaming portable that'll directly compete with Nintendo's Switch, but it'll be subsidized and way more powerful. We want gamers to naturally buy this device instead of your old, regular phone when they have to buy a new phone. We want the choice for them to be obvious cause the device is so slick and awesome and it'll do everything your regular phone does anyway. Oh, and it'll also be perfect for XCloud. It's called the xPhone.'

Boom.
 

Parham

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
295
'It's pretty clear that people who want PDA's buy PDA's, the rest will just buy regular phones like they always have. There's no reason to build a smartphone.'

You in 2006.
"This is a big factor. As long as the cell phone market continues to grow the way it has, there isn't much incentive to expand out and make a tablet. It's pretty clear that most folks who want a larger screen will just opt for a laptop and the rest will continue to use cell phones."

IyXXg0y_d.webp

These are both really cute, but not at all comparable.

The original iPhone was a functionally superior phone to any of its contemporaries, in addition to everything else it could do. Take a look at the original Apple reveal and notice how much of the event actually focuses on how good of a phone it is. It surpassed PDAs because it was a great phone that could also do everything a PDA was capable of, without compromising on the quality of the phone. At least with existing technology, you're not going to be able to add sticks and buttons without making some compromises to the phone or the controls themselves.

Tablets are a different product category with pretty different use cases than a phone, whereas here we're just talking about a phone that also plays games. The comparison would be more valid if I was handwaving demand for handheld games entirely, which obviously I'm not.
 
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Kris1977

Member
Nov 25, 2017
975
There is a gaming phone out now you can still buy called a Moqi i7s. It's older technology now compared to the latest flagships but it's still more than good enough for fortnight, cod etc on mid settings.
 

bionic77

Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,888
There are entire genres of games that could be huge on mobile that you could never play with a touch screen. Why is everybody so stuck on the status quo?
You are an enthusiast and want great games and great tech.

The corporations that make these games and systems want what makes the most money. Traditional mobile is a monster and they are probably happy staying in that lane as long as it keeps producing.
 

AndyD

Mambo Number PS5
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,602
Nashville
No one's going to make anything specialized when you already carry a regular phone and have a perfectly good game controller under the TV. The clips/holders is probably the best we'll see aside from the Stadia type on screen controls.
 

Mentalist

Member
Mar 14, 2019
17,976
New BlackBerries are coming. Gonna get a keyboard phone; probably good for metroidvanias/other 2D games.