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Inuhanyou

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,214
New Jersey
Rather than PS5 losing ground, the other two seem prime in a position to be successful themelves. Nintendo is in a position of strength and MS seems to have gained back tons of good will even if they still dont appeal to my taste. A market where everyone succceeds at what they do individually is good
 

Sylmaron

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,506
My gut feelings says demand will explode on release and there will be a long frustrating time of shortages.
 

Yuntu

Prophet of Regret
Member
Nov 7, 2019
10,691
Germany
I think all 3 consoles will be super sucessful in their own right. Exactly because of them learning of mistakes.

Also I dont think exclusives sell a system at launch. Otherwise the PS4 wouldnt have sold that well until Bloodborne was out which really started their strong train of exclusives. The way people view your messaging and marketing is just as important for the launch.
 
Oct 26, 2017
9,859
Also I dont think exclusives sell a system at launch

Of course exclusives don't sell consoles at launch.

PS4 best selling exclusives came out in 2016, 2017 and 2018, 3 years after launch.

At launch it's all about the bundles with FIFAs, CODs and "insert huge game here" and who is better at marketing his consoles and the better price.
 

Yuntu

Prophet of Regret
Member
Nov 7, 2019
10,691
Germany
Of course exclusives don't sell consoles at launch.

PS4 best selling exclusives came out in 2016, 2017 and 2018, 3 years after launch.

At launch it's all about the bundles with FIFAs, CODs and "insert huge game here" and who is better at marketing his consoles and the better price.

Yup basically what I meant. Only Nintendo is the exception to this. Well atleast it was with the Switch, dont actually remember their other launch lineups clearly.
 

DrDeckard

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,109
UK
Mmmm... yes? You just have to compare the revenue of the two companies. Intel can charge so much for their processors because of their dominant position in the business.

It's like saying PS4 didn't dominate vs Xbox One because when the X came out it sold decently for a few months.

Yes intel as a company completely dwarves amd, but if we are going down that route then ms dominates Sony every quarter..never mind a generation.

Amd has been the winner amongst the hardware crowd in the recent year to two and if intel do not step up they will continue losing market share at a drastic rate. Some may say that amd have dominated intel in recent years but I think I'd just say they came with a great product and are pulling back decent market share.

Something that I believe ms has set themselves up for next gen, but as I said we currently do not have a clue how it will go until we get more official communication from each company.

Ms could pull another xbox one. Sony could pull worse than a ps3. Nobody knows for certain just yet. It's very exciting though and I want them all to do well.
 

hussien-11

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,315
Jordan
My point is that Sony hasn't relied much on third parties for the success of the PS4 as they have made their first party games the main attraction with being huge, blockbuster productions. Of course third party games sell consoles too, but they have spent this entire gen strengthening their studios and increasing the scope of the projects they make. They learned during the PS3 days that the games they make are their best shot at winning the market and they have only doubled down on that during the PS4 era.

It is still not true at all, Sony was always trying to have a strong first party but their efforts needed time to materialize and translate to the mainstream, but they have been actively trying to be a strong first party from the start. still they are more aggressive with third parties than they've ever been, but maybe you are not really watching:

The marketing deal with Destiny 2 was huge for Playstation and key for their success, and Call of Duty Black Ops bundle did play its rule too. those 2 were key and gave them an edge over the competition.

They funded Street Fighter V which gave them the edge in fighting genre, last gen a lot more people used to to play SF4 and other games on Xbox 360.

They funded Bloodborne and signed exclusivity deal for Ni-Oh and win over Souls lovers.

They made a 1-year exclusivity deal with Activision about Crash Bandicoot Trilogy.

Final Fantasy VII is a timed-exclusive.

Resident Evil VII VR is exclusive for PSVR to this day.

Looking how DQ11 was late 2 years in Japan i think it was probably timed console-exclusive.

Man, they are even doing those kind of deals even with small titles that don't sell too well like KoF XIV which was PS exclusive for a year. I'd argue that Xbox not doing the same is really hurting them and making them lose mind and market share.
 

Lyng

Editor at Popaco.dk
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
2,206
Hmmm. For sure I'm a bit biased and am a fan of Sony, but I think we're still to see Microsoft do anything amazing and Sony to do anything terribly bad to see your prediction come true. Gamepass is cool for Microsoft but Sony has something similar in PS Now and PS+. They could copy the Gamepass completely with a few adjustments to their games lineup on PS Now should they feel threatened by Gamepass.

Furthermore Sony are in a ridiculously strong position with their first party devs and the output we expect to come thick and fast in the first year or two. Microsoft have a few gems but nothing, and I mean nothing that I'm aware of that competes toe to toe. If Sony have a similarly priced console but they have games like Spider-Man 2 or Horizon on the.. horizon, then I see that being a huge draw yet again and will drive sales to the benefit of Sony. Microsoft may be investing more in studios but their output will still take time, and creatively I just don't have the same faith in MS than I do in Sony to guarantee the hits.

Lastly I think there's still scope for a Microsoft blunder. Lockhart feels like a weird strategy, if it happens, and they're commitment to keeping most games cross gen including Halo is commendable on a consumer level but will undoubtedly hamper some of their key titles compared to what Sony first parties will have the scope to do when focusing purely on the powerful next gen baseline. This could mean a visible gulf between Sony first parties and Microsoft's that drives sales even further towards Sony.

Lastly (again) Sony are the worldwide gaming brand and Microsoft only really operate at parity in a handful of markets. I don't see that changing at all either.

Edit: Oh and retention from the current gen. with vast digital libraries it makes people sticking with Sony, the dominant brand this gen even more likely, a state of play that wasn't really much in action last time around.

psNow and ps+ are terrible compared to game pass.
Sony will probably sell more hardware than ms but unless they drastically change their lineup on psNow, MS will own the subscription market.
Also cross saves between pc and Xbox combined with the value of game pass will sell more Xbox consoles then Era in general wants to admit.
I also feel that the developers Microsoft has brought in house lately are, for a large part, PC darlings. It seems instead of trying to gain ground on the console exclusive market, they are targeting the pc players, which might prove a smart move. Personally I am going PC, Xbox and Switch at home next gen.
 
Jan 20, 2019
10,681
psNow and ps+ are terrible compared to game pass.
Sony will probably sell more hardware than ms but unless they drastically change their lineup on psNow, MS will own the subscription market.
Also cross saves between pc and Xbox combined with the value of game pass will sell more Xbox consoles then Era in general wants to admit.
I also feel that the developers Microsoft has brought in house lately are, for a large part, PC darlings. It seems instead of trying to gain ground on the console exclusive market, they are targeting the pc players, which might prove a smart move. Personally I am going PC, Xbox and Switch at home next gen.

Why are you comparing the gamepass to the ps +?
 

JershJopstin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,332
😂 I was thinking that earlier.

Are you Phantom Thief's new account The One Who Knocks?
Nice to see I'm not the only one who's thought that at 1 point or another.
While he has similar views and posting habits, PT wouldn't have been able to make that legendary ALttP thread because PT has been caught up on the Zelda games for years.
What happen to that guy?
Deleted his account, I believe in part because nearly every thread he made got instantly derailed by people claiming he made too many threads and that most of them were pointless. Edit: nevermind, see below reply

I don't believe he's made an alt, no one else quite fits his style.
Phantom Thief got banned?!
Account deletion. He used to self-request bans to force himself to take a break; I guess he decided he didn't want to come back anymore.
 
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Nanashrew

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,328
While he has similar views and posting habits, PT wouldn't have been able to make that legendary ALttP thread because PT has been caught up on the Zelda games for years.

Deleted his account, I believe in part because nearly every thread he made got instantly derailed by people claiming he made too many threads and that most of them were pointless. I don't believe he's made an alt, no one else quite fits his style.

Account deletion. He used to self-request bans to force himself to take a break; I guess he decided he didn't want to come back anymore.
Phantom Thief was doxxed by some people at GAF and Kiwifarms, so Phantom Thief asked for account closure.
 

DrDeckard

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,109
UK
I mean, let's say hypothetically Sony sells 100 mill next gen and ms sell 85 to 90 mill. Surely, everyone would be happy with that right?

I'd love to see a world where ps5 sells 150 to 160 mill and ms sell something like 110 mill. Then it would mean console gaming tam has grown. I'm sure everyone would be happy with that.

Kind of would cover European markets etc where Sony dominates.

That would be my dream scenario but realistically it's probably not feasible.
 

Hate

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,730
It kinda feels like they still have the means to dominate.

Digital library being able to be transferred will be a big thing. It'll be hard to leave the ecosystem.
 

z0m3le

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,418
OK so just going to estimate where I believe each console will be at in 2025 holiday.

PS5: ~70 Million, they will be hurt by the $500 price tag that u am expecting, if they launch at $400, ~80 Million consoles by this point. For reference PS4 sold ~90 Million consoles by its 5th anniversary. The PS5 will also continue the downwards trend of sales for the brand in Japan with 6 Million sales at 5 years, a little over a million drop from PS4.

XBFIVE: ~60 Million, they will outsell PS5 in America but be behind in every other market.

Switch V2: ~25 Million units, it will have launched Holiday 2023, following the Switch's success, the brand will still be Switch and some new games will work across both devices, they will adopt a phone like platform for the switch family of systems, but this model will have many exclusives that just wouldn't run on the current Switch.

I do think Switch is running in a parallel market and will continue to have 15 Million+ unit sales every year until something disrupts it. PS5 will remain the market leader but most publishers will be looking at multiplat releases for all 3 consoles, hardware won't really be an iisue either because PS5 and XB5 require 4x as much performance for 4K than Switch V2 needs for 1080p.
 

Saint-14

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
14,477
OK so just going to estimate where I believe each console will be at in 2025 holiday.

PS5: ~70 Million, they will be hurt by the $500 price tag that u am expecting, if they launch at $400, ~80 Million consoles by this point. For reference PS4 sold ~90 Million consoles by its 5th anniversary. The PS5 will also continue the downwards trend of sales for the brand in Japan with 6 Million sales at 5 years, a little over a million drop from PS4.

XBFIVE: ~60 Million, they will outsell PS5 in America but be behind in every other market.
This is a weird math, if next Xbox only outsells the PS5 in the US then how will the difference be 10 million only? Are you thinking they will somehow close the gap a lot WW? There are markets which don't care about Xbox whatsoever anymore.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,205
This is a weird math, if next Xbox only outsells the PS5 in the US then how will the difference be 10 million only? Are you thinking they will somehow close the gap a lot WW? There are markets which don't care about Xbox whatsoever anymore.

Yeah PS4 only leads in U.S. by about 3 million. It would take Xbox 360 levels of U.S. dominance for any kind of sales parity.
 

Necron

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,292
Switzerland
All three are in a position to succeed next year. Google and Amazon might also challenge them.

It's going to be a lot more competitive and interesting.
 
Jan 10, 2018
7,207
Tokyo
OK so just going to estimate where I believe each console will be at in 2025 holiday.

PS5: ~70 Million, they will be hurt by the $500 price tag that u am expecting, if they launch at $400, ~80 Million consoles by this point. For reference PS4 sold ~90 Million consoles by its 5th anniversary. The PS5 will also continue the downwards trend of sales for the brand in Japan with 6 Million sales at 5 years, a little over a million drop from PS4.

XBFIVE: ~60 Million, they will outsell PS5 in America but be behind in every other market.

Switch V2: ~25 Million units, it will have launched Holiday 2023, following the Switch's success, the brand will still be Switch and some new games will work across both devices, they will adopt a phone like platform for the switch family of systems, but this model will have many exclusives that just wouldn't run on the current Switch.

I do think Switch is running in a parallel market and will continue to have 15 Million+ unit sales every year until something disrupts it. PS5 will remain the market leader but most publishers will be looking at multiplat releases for all 3 consoles, hardware won't really be an iisue either because PS5 and XB5 require 4x as much performance for 4K than Switch V2 needs for 1080p.

Have you given up on the idea of incremental upgrades of the switch hardware with backward and a limited forward compatibility between devices? I know that I haven't, but we're few on that team.
 

jsnepo

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,648
PS5 will be the most sold console.
Xbox Two will have the most profitable services.
Nintendo will dominate the handheld gaming market.
 

Omnistalgic

self-requested temp ban
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,973
NJ
OK so just going to estimate where I believe each console will be at in 2025 holiday.

PS5: ~70 Million, they will be hurt by the $500 price tag that u am expecting, if they launch at $400, ~80 Million consoles by this point. For reference PS4 sold ~90 Million consoles by its 5th anniversary. The PS5 will also continue the downwards trend of sales for the brand in Japan with 6 Million sales at 5 years, a little over a million drop from PS4.

XBFIVE: ~60 Million, they will outsell PS5 in America but be behind in every other market.

Switch V2: ~25 Million units, it will have launched Holiday 2023, following the Switch's success, the brand will still be Switch and some new games will work across both devices, they will adopt a phone like platform for the switch family of systems, but this model will have many exclusives that just wouldn't run on the current Switch.

I do think Switch is running in a parallel market and will continue to have 15 Million+ unit sales every year until something disrupts it. PS5 will remain the market leader but most publishers will be looking at multiplat releases for all 3 consoles, hardware won't really be an iisue either because PS5 and XB5 require 4x as much performance for 4K than Switch V2 needs for 1080p.
Xbox is completely taking over NOA market and UK, and selling better everywhere else for those numbers.

wishful thinking IMO. Won't look like that if these machines are coming out with similar specs.
 
Oct 31, 2017
3,287
If Sony doesn't pull another $599 fiasco like they did with PS3 I see them dominating again. This gen feels like the PS1 to PS2 gen all over again for me. I don't know why people are bringing up the PS2 to PS3 transition. Sony fucked up big time with the PS3 and that stumble looks like a fluke to me when compared to all their successes in the market. It doesn't look like they will be repeating any of that shit next gen and they are coming from a remarkably strong gen with the PS4 now. I'd argue short of any spectacular mishaps the PS5 will dominate again.

That's not to say Nintendo and MS won't be competitive, they will but I feel the PS5 is an unstoppable freight train at this point. It has sequels to too many games people want to play and this time a lot of them are Sony first party exclusive games. Couple that with transferable digital libraries and backwards compatibility and I think Sony is a very enviable position.
 

AmFreak

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,506
Yep. Looking at the top ten best selling titles for the PS4 (using wiki, I know) a full 7 of them are Sony first parties:
Uncharted 4: 16 million
Spider Man: 13.2 million
TLOU: Remastered: 10 million
God of War: 10 million
Horizon: Zero Dawn: 10 million
Gran Turismo Sport: 8 million
Detroit: Become Human (second party?): 3.2 million.

Only Witcher 3 (4.8 million at #7), Monster Hunter World (4.67m) and the crash bandicoot N-sane trilogy (2.5m) crack the top 10 at #7,8, and 10 respectively.

First party titles are heavily driving the PS4.
Or maybe don't use a list which is obviously missing stuff and not uptodate.
The only 1st party games that have a (incredibly slim) chance to remain in a real Top10 with the sales shown here would be Uncharted 4 and Spider-Man.
Everything else would fall behind one or more of the FIFA/CoD/Rockstar games, Minecraft, Destiny, etc ...
 

Mubrik_

Member
Dec 7, 2017
2,725
Ps3 was considered bad and look how much it sold.
Sony is entering next generation with new established ip's (HZD, Bloodborne, Spiderman).
The minimum bar here is the PS4 really.

The take should be in the competition doing better not Sony doing less
 

degauss

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,631
I expect it to lose some of the low end to the Switch/Switch 2, and take some of the high end from PC.

Don't expect a big shift from PS4's dominance, maybe slightly less since PS4 was so dominant, but not enough to matter.
 

Hoo-doo

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,292
The Netherlands
It won't be a repeat of 2013 for sure. MS has had positive word of mouth lately.

All this word of mouth hasn't done much for sales though. And at the tail end of the PS3/360 era people literally expected Sony to be out of the console race by now. The expectations couldn't be lower.

So yeah, I think word of mouth pre-launch means very little. What matters is how you deliver.
 

Deleted member 12352

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,203
Eh, I don't see any real reason they couldn't at present. Things could change of course but as of right now I don't see next gen being terribly different from the current one on this score.

Man, they are even doing those kind of deals even with small titles that don't sell too well like KoF XIV which was PS exclusive for a year. I'd argue that Xbox not doing the same is really hurting them and making them lose mind and market share.

Except they have been doing the same all along. Sony has simply been better at cutting those deals with bigger name brands is the sole difference.
 

jroc74

Member
Oct 27, 2017
28,996
Services and platforms are going to dominate next gen. I'm sure of it.
Some of y'all do realize it can be both hardware and services, right?

Why not both?

I remember when MS stopped sharing console sales and switched to MAU.

"This is what matters" "engagement"

Sony started sharing MAU numbers,

....crickets.....

Now it's how many subscribers, amirite?

It can be both.
Don't the Sony subscriptions services bring in more $$$ than Microsoft's?
Correct me if I'm wrong.
In some alternate universe selling less hardware equals more users subscribing to your services. Or less users subscribing because you sell more consoles. I don't know... Unless the PC crowd makes up the difference for game pass numbers.

I get the smaller platform can mean more users spending. Something sales folks can probably explain better.

Anything's possible tho. I get that. In hindsight no one expected the PS4 to dominate, regardless of what the competition was doing. Looking back you can see how the pieces fell in place, and it wasn't solely the Wii U and XBO stumbling, falling hard out the gate. It was how each ended last gen. 1-3 years before the Wii U, PS4 and XBO launched set the tone for this gen.

What's crazy is it looks like a repeat of how last gen ended. Only real difference is Nintendo and MS. MS were humbled this gen and Nintendo fixed things before this gen ended.

In that sense I think it will be more competitive, but that doesn't mean Sony won't dominate. It will just mean everyone else will do better.
 
Last edited:

Logan Hardy

Member
Dec 26, 2018
1,801
I am excited to see how the ps5 will perform facing nextbox and nintendo. If the competition is alive then they will have to kick ass to keep floating ,and that i win because only gonna buy ps5.
 

Burrman

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,633
All this word of mouth hasn't done much for sales though. And at the tail end of the PS3/360 era people literally expected Sony to be out of the console race by now. The expectations couldn't be lower.

So yeah, I think word of mouth pre-launch means very little. What matters is how you deliver.
I don't think sales are a big factor in this last year of the gen. Everyone's waiting for the new consoles. Then we'll see how word of mouth turns to sales. MS has been delivering the goods lately, or at least making great moves. Halo is also showing everyone it's still a huge IP. I feel a next gen release with infinite at launch will do numbers.
 

MickZan

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,404
Maybe worldwide it will be a bit closer, but here in Europe Xbox has not chance (aside from UK). Microsoft needs to change their messaging from us centric to a more global course. Many of my friends (anekdotal I know) were laughing at the xo19 presentation about how cringy it was. The sad thing is the content they have is actually pretty good. Fix the messaging first.
 

Alex840

Member
Oct 31, 2017
5,120
I might be closer, but not by much. The 360 was Microsoft's most successful console, and even then they ended the gen in last place (though only just). They can be competitive in the US/UK, but the rest of the world jut isn't interested in the Xbox brand. I don't think their new studio aquisitions are going to change things much for them next gen (though I expect Obsidian to continue to make great games).
 

Smokey_Run

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,631
The push to digital is gonna keep a lot of people locked into PlayStation. Who is going to be willing to give up their catalog of digital purchases?

Sony kinda dominated the right generation because digital libraries are gonna help with retention.

At least that's my read on the situation and talking to my more casual friends who transitioned to more digital games in the last few years.
 

Surface

Member
Nov 6, 2017
650
Xbox one x stronger than PS4 Pro
Xbox one S cheaper than PS4

MS already have superior Hardware in both performance and price amd still losing

How is next gen going to change that by just coming out with a new console?

Clearly the software is the determining factor and Sony def. Seems to continue winning that from what we know now

Xbox 360 first half of the gen had stronger software and services around

So many hardware oriented in this forum almost believe Im at some hardcore PC elite forum at times ^_^
 

SilverX

Member
Jan 21, 2018
13,016
It is still not true at all, Sony was always trying to have a strong first party but their efforts needed time to materialize and translate to the mainstream, but they have been actively trying to be a strong first party from the start. still they are more aggressive with third parties than they've ever been, but maybe you are not really watching:

The marketing deal with Destiny 2 was huge for Playstation and key for their success, and Call of Duty Black Ops bundle did play its rule too. those 2 were key and gave them an edge over the competition.

They funded Street Fighter V which gave them the edge in fighting genre, last gen a lot more people used to to play SF4 and other games on Xbox 360.

They funded Bloodborne and signed exclusivity deal for Ni-Oh and win over Souls lovers.

They made a 1-year exclusivity deal with Activision about Crash Bandicoot Trilogy.

Final Fantasy VII is a timed-exclusive.

Resident Evil VII VR is exclusive for PSVR to this day.

Looking how DQ11 was late 2 years in Japan i think it was probably timed console-exclusive.

Man, they are even doing those kind of deals even with small titles that don't sell too well like KoF XIV which was PS exclusive for a year. I'd argue that Xbox not doing the same is really hurting them and making them lose mind and market share.

Are you purposefully ignoring the Xbox One and what Microsoft did this gen? They paid for complete Dead Rising 3 exclusivity as well as Titanfall and those were both out within the first few months of the platform. That alone gave them a big line-up advantage at the start. They also paid for timed exclusivity of Rise of the Tomb Raider, Dead Rising 4, PUBG, Black Desert, Ashen, Inside, and those are just the top of my head.

I also clearly remember them having BOTH marketing deals for Battlefield and Call of Duty when the Xbox One launched. Now they just have only been able to hold onto their EA game marketing deals which they always get whether it is a new IP like Anthem or just the typical Madden. I think the only EA marketing deal they lost was FIFA and that was a few years into this gen.

The deals and exclusives for the PS4 are aggressive but recognize the Xbox One has been very aggressive as well. It is just business and it is part of the industry. And nothing you listed is why the PS4 became the market leader as it had stronger selling power since day one of this gen's launches. Xbox had to do a LOT to win back some mindshare which they are responsible themselves for losing to begin with.

Hell Sony could have been way worse to Microsoft this gen as they allowed the Xbox One to be consistently cheaper than the PS4 starting since Fall 2014 and never tried to fight back by matching the price.
 

hussien-11

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,315
Jordan
Are you purposefully ignoring the Xbox One and what Microsoft did this gen? They paid for complete Dead Rising 3 exclusivity as well as Titanfall and those were both out within the first few months of the platform. That alone gave them a big line-up advantage at the start. They also paid for timed exclusivity of Rise of the Tomb Raider, Dead Rising 4, PUBG, Black Desert, Ashen, Inside, and those are just the top of my head.

I also clearly remember them having BOTH marketing deals for Battlefield and Call of Duty when the Xbox One launched. Now they just have only been able to hold onto their EA game marketing deals which they always get whether it is a new IP like Anthem or just the typical Madden. I think the only EA marketing deal they lost was FIFA and that was a few years into this gen.

The deals and exclusives for the PS4 are aggressive but recognize the Xbox One has been very aggressive as well. It is just business and it is part of the industry. And nothing you listed is why the PS4 became the market leader as it had stronger selling power since day one of this gen's launches. Xbox had to do a LOT to win back some mindshare which they are responsible themselves for losing to begin with.

Hell Sony could have been way worse to Microsoft this gen as they allowed the Xbox One to be consistently cheaper than the PS4 starting since Fall 2014 and never tried to fight back by matching the price.

I'm not ignoring but I remember Phil Spencer saying a few years ago that they think this kind of deals is not good and they won't do them in the same extent of what they did before. this is what he said and that was long after Xbox One was released:

Xbox head Phil Spencer has once again come out and stated that he does not like the idea of paying for exclusive content.

"People always knock me on this; I've been on record… I don't love the idea or practice of us paying so other platforms can't play or use a certain gun in a game or do a certain level," Spencer told GameSpot at the Brazil Game Show. "I know I say that and, Xbox history–DLC exclusivity windows with Call of Duty–I understand the fingers are pointing right back to Xbox. I can only be who I am. It's not the best PR answer. But I don't like that."
 
Jan 20, 2019
10,681
I'm not ignoring but I remember Phil Spencer saying a few years ago that they think this kind of deals is not good and they won't do them in the same extent of what they did before. this is what he said and that was long after Xbox One was released:

BS
Those deals make perfect since from a bussiness perspective and have zero doubt that phil whould say no.