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I think Microsoft should do benchmarks on the Xbox Series S vs Xbox One X

RobotVM

RobotVM

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Oct 27, 2017
1,415
I have noticed a lot of people on the site that think because Microsoft said the Series S will do 1440p that this means older Xbox One games won't run at 4K. They also think that the Xbox One X is more powerful than the Series S. I think Microsoft should do benchmarks or something in the same vein to show how much more powerful the Series S is than the One X.
 

Deleted member 5491

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Oct 25, 2017
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DF will do this anyway, so why should Microsoft? Why should I even trust a company trying to sell me something, that they are not lying or just using games to make their new hardware look good?
 
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RobotVM

RobotVM

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Oct 27, 2017
1,415
Not all regular gamers even know what DF is. If Microsoft at least said the Series S is 30% more powerful than the One X it would help.
 
Eoin

Eoin

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Oct 27, 2017
7,103
If you mean something like side-by--side video comparisons, then sure, that'd be a reasonably good way for people to see the difference between the machines before deciding which (if any) of them they're doing to buy.

If you mean actual numerical benchmarks, though, then they're of very limited value. They'll just confirm what we already know - that the XSX is much stronger than the XSS in several areas.
 
chrominance

chrominance

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Oct 25, 2017
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It's not clear to me that Microsoft wants One X owners to upgrade to an S, or at least that they would go out of their way to convince them to do so. If I were Microsoft I'd probably think that anyone who bought a One X has the money to spend on an XSX, and that muddying the message around the XSS (it's the 1080p version of the XSX!) isn't worth whatever additional sales they'd get from One X owners who don't want to pay for an XSX but would buy an XSS. I'd want to convert those users directly to an XSX.
 
fracas

fracas

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,648
idk if benches are the way to go but i have seen a surprising number of people on this forum point to flops and claim that the series s is outperformed by the one x

i wonder what it's like in less enthusiast-populated circles
 

infinityBCRT

Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,132
You're gonna get benchmarks all day generation long from DF. The differences between Series S, PS5, Series X & 30XX series cards have ensured that DF has a ton of content lined up for them for a long time.
 
Mcfrank

Mcfrank

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Oct 28, 2017
15,219
chrominance said:
It's not clear to me that Microsoft wants One X owners to upgrade to an S, or at least that they would go out of their way to do so. If I were Microsoft I'd probably think that anyone who bought a One X has the money to spend on an XSX, and that muddying the message around the S (it's the 1080p version of the XSX!) isn't worth whatever additional sales they'd get from One X owners who don't want to pay for an XSX but would buy an XSS.
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Was just typically basically this. Anyone who cared enough to get a xb1x is not the market for the xss but rather MS wants getting the xsx
 
Prine

Prine

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justiceiro said:
Why pay someone to do work that digital foundry will do for free?
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They pay DF sometimes to do their videos. DF make this abundantly clear though.

But given they're quite bullish about Series S, they should hand over cash to them and be confident in their product, more investment into DF the better.
 
Reckheim

Reckheim

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Oct 25, 2017
9,379
those are going to be some interesting comparisons for sure.

MS wont do it them selfs, no need to open them selfs up for scrutiny.
 
Protome

Protome

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Oct 27, 2017
15,687
I agree, or hire DF to do one.
Hell, even just tweet "Xbox One Games on the Series S will run with One X enhancements" that's all that's needed!
 
raketenrolf

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Oct 28, 2017
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There are things that the X1X is better at and like I said in another thread, I don't think the XSS could run RDR in 4K/30 for example.

I think the XSS will become "old" (performance wise) really quick but that's just what you get with a cheap system. And it will still be enough for most people (just like PS4/X1S).

But if you expect the XSS to play AAA games two years from now on at 1440p/60, you are potentially setting yourself up for disappointment. Early gen games will look and run good, no doubt about that.
 

VG Aficionado

Member
Nov 6, 2017
1,385
If the S can display 4K content (such as digital media), will it be able to play Red Dead Redemption 2 (Xbox One X version, runs at native 4K) at native 4K? How will backwards compatibility work in those cases?
 
cakely

cakely

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Oct 27, 2017
13,149
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They'll do what they did with the Xbox One S and pretty much pretend it doesn't exist when it comes to talking about performance and resolution.
 
TooBusyLookinGud

TooBusyLookinGud

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Oct 27, 2017
7,964
California
Internal benchmarking is always taken with a grain of salt. Manufacturers pick tests and tools that favor the numbers they are looking for, or they manipulate their hardware to produce amazing numbers depending on the benchmarking tool.

Let third parties handle it. DF and NXGamer will show us what all next gen consoles can do in a neutral environment.
 
Bedameister

Bedameister

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Oct 26, 2017
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I wish they would do that and also get into detail how BC is handled for the XSS but I guess we'll have to wait for DF to give us the infos we need.
 
Alek

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Oct 28, 2017
8,471
I don't think Microsoft will want to emphasize one system is weaker than another. If anything they'll show their games on the Series X and not talk about the series S outside of its pricepoint.

They'll emphasize the highest end graphics, will emphasising the lowest end price point. At least that's my take.
 
raketenrolf

raketenrolf

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Oct 28, 2017
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snipe_25 said:
Really? Aren't the GPUs comparable? And the CPU is a massive upgrade.
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The X1X GPU is still more powerful when it comes to pushing resolutions I think and while the XSS CPU is way faster, it can't do much for pushing higher resolutions but it does higher framerates. It's more like the design of the new consoles is much better balanced than the current gen, where we had good GPUs but abysmal CPUs that could sometimes barely run games at 30fps.

So a native RDR2 XSS port for example should be able to run at 60fps but not 4k. But that's ok since it's not designed for 4k.
 
aevanhoe

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Aug 28, 2018
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My guess is they don't want benchmarks, until we get games that actually utilize the S. Like, the SSD, the memory, the cpu, everything - I can imagine them just running some last-gen game on it and seeing a similar performance to One X - but that would not be the whole story. There is a reason Apple doesn't mention RAM on iOS devices - because that one number may be misleading when it comes to actual performance.

I could be wrong, but that's why I doubt Microsoft will push for benchmarks. They will go for "the experience" more, like - look how fast these games load, or how we can achieve 60fps in this game or something like that.
 
LavaBadger

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Nov 14, 2017
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I don't think it would do MS any great service to demonstrate the power disparity. The point is the price, and if they can get you to buy one of them, they'll be achieving their goal.
 
Mass Effect

Mass Effect

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Oct 31, 2017
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CliveLH said:
You think Microsoft is paying Digital Foundry ?
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Just to be clear here, Microsoft isn't the only one potentially paying DF, nor does it make them shills.

Nvidia has paid sponsorships several times in the past to DF, but that doesn't mean that we can't trust their reviews of Nvidia products necessarily.

Though if MS (or Sony or Nintendo or whoever) is paying DF for a promotional video, it has to be explicitly stated, so it's not like we wouldn't know.
 
Vintage

Vintage

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Oct 27, 2017
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Do you think casual consumers care about some small percentage of performance increase over a higher-level console they didn't buy?
 
meenseen84

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Feb 15, 2018
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snipe_25 said:
Really? Aren't the GPUs comparable? And the CPU is a massive upgrade.
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CPU is massive upgrade. The box wasn't made to do 4K gaming though.

Last September, Digital Foundry compared RDNA vs GCN and saw 1.35-1.58x performance improvements. So at 4TF not every title will perform greater than 6 TF. (e.g. 1.35 x 4 = 5.4). Now that is RDNA 1, so there could be some real improvements there, but that is what we have. Won't know what kind of resources running in back compat uses either.
Also, the RAM could be a problem running 4K games compared to One X.
 
Mukrab

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Apr 19, 2020
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justiceiro said:
Why pay someone to do work that digital foundry will do for free?
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Also no one ever believes the claims of the company who produces a product. There is always skepticiam with nvidia and amd's claims. Which is good because their claims are indeed always a little exaggerated. Or only best case scenarios.
 
Tagg

Tagg

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K.Jack said:
Stop. Yes it could.
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I don't see how this is a controversial viewpoint? The GPU tech is newer but the raw teraflop level is higher in the One X compared to the Series S thanks to double the CUs. Plus the available RAM differential.
 
klauskpm

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Oct 26, 2017
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I misread it as Series X instead of One X. But yeah, they should do comparisons and show the overall increase. They took care of last gens bottlenecks and presented new APIs.

They already showed the difference between XOS and XSS on loading speed, but it was strange to me to not see a direct comparison to XOX.
 
IronicSonic

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raketenrolf said:
I don't think it will hit 1440p in AAA next gen games for a long time after launch. Smaller scale games (or cross gen) I am not really worried about.
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I mean, Series S intended design and goal is to run same Series X games at 1440p. Do you really think Microsoft will miss the mark? In other words, do you think Series X (or PS5 for that matter) will receive a lot demanding 1080p games or variable resolutions games?
 

slothrop

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I do not think benchmarks are smart marketing for a mainstream attempt to sell a product. People do not care and will just be confused. People who care are the ones deeply following the details anyway, and will probably still buy something
 
Fisty

Fisty

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Oct 25, 2017
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I would imagine XSS can hit the same res targets on games as 1X, i think the memory/bandwidth revealed yesterday adds a few questions but i think 4TF RDNA 2 vs 6TF GCN should at least be close enough to have reasonable dynamic 4K on XB1 games
 
snipe_25

snipe_25

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Oct 27, 2017
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meenseen84 said:
CPU is massive upgrade. The box wasn't made to do 4K gaming though.

Last September, Digital Foundry compared RDNA vs GCN and saw 1.35-1.58x performance improvements. So at 4TF not every title will perform greater than 6 TF. (e.g. 1.35 x 4 = 5.4). Now that is RDNA 1, so there could be some real improvements there, but that is what we have. Won't know what kind of resources running in back compat uses either.
Also, the RAM could be a problem running 4K games compared to One X.
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It'll be interesting to see the data on RDNA2 vs GCN. Even if it's just on the high end of the range you/DF gave for RDNA1, that's
1.58*4TF= 6.32TF

We don't know 100% that they're comparable, but it seems like they should be.
 

4Tran

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Nov 4, 2017
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It seems like a terrible idea marketing wise. If the Series S performs great then Microsoft is undermining the reasons for buying a Series X and if it doesn't perform very well then they're making the Series S look like a bad purchase. Add to that the potential backlash when or if users can't replicate the same results. There's a reason why manufacturers don't tend to do this kind of thing.
 
raketenrolf

raketenrolf

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IronicSonic said:
I mean, Series S intended design and goal is to run same Series X games at 1440p. Do you really think Microsoft will miss the mark? In other words, do you think Series X (or PS5 for that matter) will receive a lot demanding 1080p games or variable resolutions games?
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I don't think PS5/XSX will go as low as 1080p but believing they will always hit native 4k is naive. 4k is still demanding and there's so many solutions for this nowadays like dynamic resolutions and stuff that it doesn't make sense to trying to push for native 4k at all times. And raytracing will make them go lower even quicker.

It depends on what framerate you would want to play. 4k30 is probably fine for a long time but 60 may not be for obvious reasons.

Also it's not as easy as dropping the res to 1440p on XSS. Games will look better in other ways too on XSX. 4tf is really not that much and like I said, while I think it's enough to play current/cross gen games at 1440p, I doubt that this will be the case for future AAA titles.
 
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