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Silky

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,522
Georgia
It's competition being Streets of Rage 4, from SEGA and River City Girls, from Arc System Works.

Let's get the obvious out of the way: All three games are both visually striking, sporting some of the strongest break-offs of art direction seen in the genre since Castle Crashers, Dragon's Crown and Guardian Heroes. Streets of Rage continuing with what developer Lizardcube has accomplished with it's hand-drawn styles melding with classic-styled gameplay, River City Girls featuring IMPECCABLE and expressive spritework not seen since Scott Pilgrim Vs. The World, and Battletoads also featuring a hand-drawn aesthetic -- though it's very 'sticky' and hyper-exaggerated in comparison to SoR. These are some purty ass games that'll probably be seen in visual discussions for the genre for the forseeable future.

But like, we get to the actual gameplay and...Battletoads kind of struggles in that department when put next to it's competition.





I guess one of the bigger grievances I have with Battletoads and the look of it's gameplay loop is the obvious lack of speed in comparison to what SoR and RCG has on offer. I guess it's better to compare it with SoR4 because both it and Battletoads don't seem to have a run option as a default. The walkspeed for the kind of game that Battletoads is looks really, really slow. Not only when put next to it's competition, but to other Battletoads games too. The 2019 title is obviuously using the Arcade release of Battletoads and Battlemaniacs as a reference on how the game is gonna be played instead of the varied NES Battletoads and both of those games had a better sense of speed than what the 2019 title is doing.

Not only that, but I feel that this is the rare, unfortunate instance where Battletoads 'gross-out and gooey' stylization works against it. Yes the transformation attacks look REALLY cool in motion but they seem to cover up where exactly your strikes are hitting in relation to your opponent's hurtbox, and they overstay their welcome too long which can block out your teammates visibility. In MP games like this, ensuring that your CO-OP buddy isn't obstructed during gameplay is super crucial to beat-em-up game feel. No one likes to guess and punch, hoping that your blows are actually hitting.

There's also the issue with lane-transitioning, or shifting up and down different planes of the level to deal with enemies scattered across the map. It's another issue of the gamespeed getting in the way more than anything, which I suppose falls in the general idea of what I said above.

I get that it's all early footage and I'm sure Rare/Dlala are probably going through feedback from Gamescom goers to improve the game, and the combat in Battletoads at least has a very good sense of weight and feedback when it comes to hitting enemies. I'd like to have faith that the game will improve by the time of if it's release...even if it releases this year in the first place.

Hell at least the music sounds good! David Wise, man. :P
 

Zed

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,544
I don't think many people are going to be calling Gamestop or that one pawn shop about this version of Battletoads.
 

Ryuelli

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,209
I'm not interested in this genre at all, but based on those 3 links I think Streets of Rage looks the most interesting, Battletoads is in 2nd place, and River City Girls is way, way, way behind both of them.
 

Jawmuncher

Crisis Dino
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
38,388
Ibis Island
I personally like the "style" of the new Battletoads graphically. It definitely stands out compared to the other beat 'em ups listed.
I do agree that the hit feedback seems to be lacking on Battletoads though. Sort of reminds me of the Power Ranger beat 'em up this gen which had the same problem. They played fine, but the lane hitting always felt "off".
 

FUNKNOWN iXi

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,581
That footage of Battletoads didn't show any dashes or grabs attacks. There still seems to be some depth we're not seeing yet.

That being said, the walk speed does look a bit slow.
 

Android Sophia

The Absolute Sword
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,095
I personally like the "style" of the new Battletoads graphically. It definitely stands out compared to the other beat 'em ups listed.
I do agree that the hit feedback seems to be lacking on Battletoads though. Sort of reminds me of the Power Ranger beat 'em up this gen which had the same problem. They played fine, but the lane hitting always felt "off".

I think it's honestly kind of hard to tell what's going on with the Battletoads videos. Whoever's playing it is just attacking constantly, even when they're obviously not going to connect. I checked out a video from IGN of the same content, and the hit feedback looks MUCH better.
 

Deleted member 19533

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,873
River City Girls looks far ahead of either of them in the gameplay department.

Unrelated, but the walking animations in SoR4 really bother me. They're so rigid, walking totally upright with their shoulders back and chest pushed out... like they're about to perform a bench press. It's really strange for them to keep dropping their arms as well. They should maintain a fighting posture throughout. Game looks okay though.

I agree that Battletoads looks mediocre at best. The speed is so slow, it appears the most simply, and the art style looks less than stellar... like a cheap flash game. It seems to lack charm.
 
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Respawn

Member
Dec 5, 2017
780
I'm not interested in this genre at all, but based on those 3 links I think Streets of Rage looks the most interesting, Battletoads is in 2nd place, and River City Girls is way, way, way behind both of them.
I respectfully disagree. Battletoads just crawls and seems way too stiff to how they should really be interacting with the ai on screen.
 

VeePs

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,357
River City Girls looks fantastic tbh. The best in the list. How much will it cost, $30?

SoR4 looks solid so far. The art style has changed so much but it looks very fluid.

Battletoads visually (like you said) looks good, but man... that WALK speed. The speed of the whole game needs to be faster imo. The animations look fantastic tho.
 
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Silky

Silky

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,522
Georgia
The speed is so slow, it appears the most simply, and the art style looks less than stellar... like a cheap flash game.

2D animation discussion has been absolutely ruined on the internet thanks to nihilistic image board culture

Everything that doesn't look like Vanillaware or CPS3 sprites = "F L A S H G A M E"
 

NippleViking

Member
May 2, 2018
4,481
I love the art of the new Battletoads, but yikes that movement and attack speed. They seriously need to up everything by 75%
 
Oct 27, 2017
9,792
Peru
If only the new Battletoads' style was in the same vein as SoR4's there wouldn't have been any problem.

I don't understand who thought this look was a good idea.
 

Deleted member 19533

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,873
2D animation discussion has been absolutely ruined on the internet thanks to nihilistic image board culture

Everything that doesn't look like Vanillaware or CPS3 sprites = "F L A S H G A M E"
Apparently you didn't make this thread for discussion, but to be a clown. Good to know.

HOW DARE YOU FEEL DIFFERENTLY THAN ME ABOUT SOMETHING! <---That's you. Ridiculous.
 

Lant_War

Classic Anus Game
The Fallen
Jul 14, 2018
23,539
Artstyle and animation-wise, SOR4 looks so goddamn better than their competitors. Everything's so alive, it feels like the world reacts to your actions.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,141
How come no one told me that SOR4 had a black girl with a semi hollow and terry's power dunk? That's fucking sick.

SoR4 looks great but man the sound is poorly mixed.
 
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Silky

Silky

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,522
Georgia
Apparently you didn't make this thread for discussion, but to be a clown. Good to know.

HOW DARE YOU FEEL DIFFERENTLY THAN ME ABOUT SOMETHING! <---That's you. Ridiculous.

I really couldn't care less about whatever bullshit you're considering pushing. The fact that you took my offhand comment as a slight on your behalf instead of reconsidering stating your idea on why you think Battletoads has a flash art aesthetic speaks wonders on your character.

If only the new Battletoads' style was in the same vein as SoR4's there wouldn't have been any problem.

I don't understand who thought this look was a good idea.

Gritty Eastmann-style anthropormorphic character designs don't sell anymore. It's not the 80s anymore.
 

VeePs

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,357
How come no one told me that SOR4 had a black girl with a semi hollow and terry's power dunk? That's fucking sick.

Cherry Hunter? We just had a whole thread about her announcement lol.

She's the daughter of Adam Hunter, a protagonist in SoR1.
 

D.Lo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,348
Sydney
It's much more true to the originals that SOR4.

River City looks the best of the three, pixel art instead of the flash game look.
 

9-Volt

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,868
They went for that Nickelodeon look and I can't really blame them. That artstyle is pretty popular among todays kids. Even TMNT adopted it.
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
I'm not interested in this genre at all, but based on those 3 links I think Streets of Rage looks the most interesting, Battletoads is in 2nd place, and River City Girls is way, way, way behind both of them.
As someone who's only interested in RCG I'm inclined to ask why.

I have no strong feeling on Streets of Rage(though I like the graphics) but Battletoads artstyle is hideous to me.
 

Lethologica

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,178
That IGN video looks pretty good. I don't think RCG looks good at all because I don't like the modern Pixel/Faux-retro art look, but that's me. I like the "Saturday morning cartoon" look of Battletoads.

I haven't seen too much of SOR4 to really form a cohesive opinion, but from what I can see from that video, it looks fine.
 

GrrImAFridge

ONE THOUSAND DOLLARYDOOS
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,665
Western Australia
Incidentally, SoR4 and RCG are both releasing on PC while Battletoads is seemingly not. Has MS commented on this? It hasn't released an X1 exclusive since Halo 5.
 
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Silky

Silky

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,522
Georgia
I'm not pushing anything. Just calling you out on your behavior. Accept it and move on. You're going to derail your own thread.

I don't think the discussion on what defines 'flash art' in a thread where the art direction between three different beat-em-ups are among the highlights is really thread derailing.

I'd rather you own up to your headassery instead of trying to tell me what I can and can't say

in my thread, the one that I made
 

Papertoonz

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,256
battletoads artstyle looks fine, i may not like it as much as the other 2 game but it looks good

the main issue is how slow it is and how bad the hit detection is on enemies above and below you are, fix those two things and the game should be alot better
 

Ryuelli

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,209
As someone who's only interested in RCG I'm inclined to ask why.

I have no strong feeling on Streets of Rage(though I like the graphics) but Battletoads artstyle is hideous to me.

I like the Battletoads artstyle (although I think the wacky stuff going on during combat is a bit much), River City Girls looks completely unremarkable to me, absolutely generic in every possible way (outside of the menus, which look alright).
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
I like the Battletoads artstyle (although I think the wacky stuff going on during combat is a bit much), River City Girls looks completely unremarkable to me, absolutely generic in every possible way (outside of the menus, which look good).
.....I honestly have no idea how any of it looks generic but you do you.
 
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Silky

Silky

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,522
Georgia
I like the Battletoads artstyle (although I think the wacky stuff going on during combat is a bit much), River City Girls looks completely unremarkable to me, absolutely generic in every possible way (outside of the menus, which look alright).

I wish people would actually take the time out to explain why something looks 'GENERIC' or 'UNMARKETABLE' or 'LOOKS LIKE A FLASH GAME' instead of just, throwing it out there.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,141
I like the Battletoads artstyle (although I think the wacky stuff going on during combat is a bit much), River City Girls looks completely unremarkable to me, absolutely generic in every possible way (outside of the menus, which look alright).
I mean.... to be "generic" you have to have other games in your genre... I can't think of any game that looks like it. Even wayforwards own stuff isn't in that pixel style.
The setting is a generic school, the character designs are generic school girls, the combat doesn't look like it's particularly innovative or remarkable either. I'm not sure how it doesn't look generic.
Oh yeah, we're just drowning in all these high school delinquent girl beatemups.
 

Deleted member 19533

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,873
I don't think the discussion on what defines 'flash art' in a thread where the art direction between three different beat-em-ups are among the highlights is really thread derailing.

I'd rather you own up to your headassery instead of trying to tell me what I can and can't say

in my thread, the one that I made
What discussion on art? lol.

I said I didn't like the art, and then you copped a holier than thou attitude because you disagreed.
2D animation discussion has been absolutely ruined on the internet thanks to nihilistic image board culture

Everything that doesn't look like Vanillaware or CPS3 sprites = "F L A S H G A M E"
Yep. That's exactly what happened. You shut down all discussion instantly because you felt like being a clown was the way to go. Talk about head-assery.

I don't know what it is with folks like you. Do you get off on starting arguments over the most trivial of things? You started a thread, one would assume, for discussion. However, you don't get an echo chamber of your own thoughts and you become like a toddler mashing keys.

Anyway, I've given you too much time already. Later.
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
Yeah like someone please tell me another game that looks like this because I want to play it.
JealousUnawareBaldeagle-max-1mb.gif

rivercitygirls-800x400.jpg




(I already played Scott Pilgrim.)
The setting is a generic school, the character designs are generic school girls, the combat doesn't look like it's particularly innovative or remarkable either. I'm not sure how it doesn't look generic.
Oh yeah totally your typical school girls.

ElasticOldfashionedGreendarnerdragonfly-size_restricted.gif


I also don't see how the school is generic. It's a setting what do you expect them to do? The series has always been about school delinquents.
 

Ryuelli

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,209
Yeah like someone please tell me another game that looks like this because I want to play it.
JealousUnawareBaldeagle-max-1mb.gif

rivercitygirls-800x400.jpg




(I already played Scott Pilgrim.)

Oh yeah totally your typical school girls.

ElasticOldfashionedGreendarnerdragonfly-size_restricted.gif


I also don't see how the school is generic. It's a setting what do you expect them to do? The series has always been about school delinquents.

School girls fighting things isn't exactly a new concept.




I guess I'm sorry that I have a different opinion than you?
 

Soj

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,687
The time stamp for the Battletoads video was hilarious. Holy shit, it looks terrible.

River City Girls looks amazing though. Day 1 for that game.
 

Ryuelli

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,209
Talking about the art. Art has genres too. I mean the conceit of the thread is battletoads looks generic compared to the other two. If you think River City is the generic one well idk

Okay, but a game is more than just the art. I listed other reasons why I thought it looked generic aside from that.

The thread isn't "Battletoads looks bad compared to the other two" as in that's a fact, the thread is "I think Battletoads looks bad compared to the other two", as in - it's an opinion. Obviously not everyone is going to agree with them, and that's what leads to a discussion.
 

Burrman

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,633
I think it looks the best out of those three. Don't like the style of RCG. Just needs to be faster which I'll assume will be added through dashing and abilities. The art style is great
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
School girls fighting things isn't exactly a new concept.




I guess I'm sorry that I have a different opinion than you? Not really sure what the point of this thread was if you're just going get offended if someone doesn't necessarily agree with you.
I'm just not a fan of using "generic" as a descriptor because it doesn't feel it at all to me. LIke even by "school girls fighting" genre MIsako and Kyoko being genuine punks feels pretty different to me.

Ultimately yes it's your opinion I was just trying to understand how it could be viewed as "generic" and honestly I still don't see it. When I think generic school anime I picture moe bait not a girl who brings knuckle dusters to detention.

Not trying to be rude I just find just brushing it off as a "generic school" without actually seeing how it's being executed was just off to me.
 

Adder7806

Member
Dec 16, 2018
4,120
This is a game I don't understand why it exists. Is there really a giant, silent Battletoads fan club that has to be satisfied? Who is this for?
 

HStallion

Member
Oct 25, 2017
62,255
The bigger issue for me is just how plain and straight forward the new Battle Toads looks. The original games were really creative, funky and willing to try all kinds of things. Even the level design looks really uninspired compared to its predecessors.
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
On Battletoads I hate that they seem to be over emphasizing the gross out stuff. Even if I thought the game looked good that foot animation alone would stop me from buying it. Just UGH.

I'm also not a fan of the weird adams apples they gave two of them.
 
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Silky

Silky

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,522
Georgia
This is a game I don't understand why it exists. Is there really a giant, silent Battletoads fan club that has to be satisfied? Who is this for?

Rash was incredibly well received in Killer instinct amongst fans and there has always been a vocal audience for a Battletoads revisit. If you didn't hear people ask for Banjo, they asked for Battletoads -- mostly because it is still fresh in the mind of a lot of people.

The brand was in Shovel Knight in one of the greatest levels designed for that game. This is the product of years of buildup for a fucking Battletoads sequel lol