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Jan 10, 2018
7,207
Tokyo
I read a lot of people saying that the game is too expensive. It really isn't. There's more enjoyment and value in it than in most if not all AAA games released last year (yeah I'm referring to RDR2). Hollow Knight is the outlier, but Monster Boy is correctly priced.
 

Deleted member 8593

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
27,176
Desperately needs a physical release in Europe but if people can find an easy way import it they definitely should.
 

eXistor

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,274
I'm for whatever reason still playing this game, maybe because it pisses me off so much. I'm convinced the game only has decent reviews is because most reviewers did not make it through the majority of the game. The Volcano, Haunted Manor, and final bosses are all literally game breaking. The puzzles are so obtuse and abstract it isn't even logical and the enemy battles are downright cheap. Can someone possibly explain to me how the fuck anyone would think it's good game design to hide a boss mechanic within the system settings? What idiot made the call on that?

Let me restate: fuck this game. Don't be fooled by the appealing first half and visuals. The second half is absolute dog shit. I would never recommend this title to someone when you have games like Dead Cells, Celeste, and Hollow Knight in the library.
I think there's enough evidence to the contrary in this thread and the OT alone. I loved every minute of it. I love that there are still modern games that dares to let players figure things out for themselves. It shows great respect to their audience and I for one applaud them for it.
 

Lunchbox

ƃuoɹʍ ʇᴉ ƃuᴉop ǝɹ,noʎ 'ʇɥƃᴉɹ sᴉɥʇ pɐǝɹ noʎ ɟI
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,548
Rip City
Just bought this, I learned about Adventure Island which I vaguely remembered renting in the past, huge rabbit hole that was.
 

tiesto

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,865
Long Island, NY
Still playing this, made it to the final area and am now backtracking to 100% the game. There's some great level design but a lot of the puzzles I find a bit obtuse and/or frustrating. Full thoughts to come once I beat it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
15,070
I'm for whatever reason still playing this game, maybe because it pisses me off so much. I'm convinced the game only has decent reviews is because most reviewers did not make it through the majority of the game. The Volcano, Haunted Manor, and final bosses are all literally game breaking. The puzzles are so obtuse and abstract it isn't even logical and the enemy battles are downright cheap. Can someone possibly explain to me how the fuck anyone would think it's good game design to hide a boss mechanic within the system settings? What idiot made the call on that?
Biggest meltdown of hyperbole I've seen in years, thanks for the laugh.

Your little helper dude basically tells you to look in the settings, how is that "hidden"???

Anyway, very good game and quite long.

I'm not quite done but I'd give it a high 8.
 

Dr. Feel Good

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,996
That would be me. I was involved (and approved) the entire game from start to finish so it was in my responsibility. I'm sorry that you dislike the 2nd half of Monster Boy! We put a lot of work and love into the game and our mission was to keep it interesting from start to finish. It really isn't the typical Metroidvania game with large simple hallways and maybe combat focus - we created a game that cherishes exploration and fresh ideas + giving the player an unrestricted chance to combine *all* abilities in an evolving game design over the 20-25 hours journey. The 2nd half requires to keep in mind a lot of things but I don't see any elements that are obtuse or cheap. You can always outsmart the game but admittedly, it's not easy. Monster Boy isn't a game that you play while watching a movie, it demands full attention of the player in the 2nd half. The Volcano and Haunted Manor require to concentrate and not rush through them. I can explain every single room and we tested them with players of all skill levels. I'm very proud of the team at Game Atelier and the game, as it's something unique and completely different compared to other games. The system menu idea that you mentioned is just a very short 4th wall break element that's part of our constant thrive to keep the game fresh. Maybe we don't hit the taste of each player every time but the overall game offers so many things and mechanics, I think it's very exciting to explore and the feedback we received from players (who finished the game) and press members (who finished the game) was thankfully very good. I hope we can transport this idea to even more to players the next time and make even more players happy with it. It's always our mission to provide a highest quality, meaty and exciting game for your hard earned money.

I appreciate the response and by no means was not trying to attack anyone. Didn't really expect the person who made the design call to chime in. So apologies for that. I still don't agree with a number of your comments and still stand by the game being heavily broken in the back half of the game. I posted earlier in this thread when I was playing through the beginning and was glowing at how good it was so I'm not some bitter gamer who just wants to bitch and moan, I was just severely disappointed at how a game could achieve such highs and slump to such lows as the game progresses.

First off in regards to reviews/feedback: I'm not alone in this sentiment, multiple people in this thread alone stated that the game is a chore and a slog to get through once you hit the Volcano. Additionally some of your most glowing reviews often don't even address the gameplay mechanics past the Snake form. While I don't want to sound like some conspiracy lunatic here, as someone who has had my own reviews posted to Metacritic, the benchmark to review is incredibly low, and most writers are often submitting review after only a few hours played. It should be no shock that this game has amazing reviews because the first half of the game is very well done, and the charm of the visuals and music makes the package seem incredible.

However, it falls apart around or right before the Volcano level as stated due to inconsistent puzzles, obtuse design, and extremely frustrating combat. I'll list out my grievances:
  • Combat and Hitboxes: This should be no surprise and is probably the major criticism of the game. Two design problems, 1) limited attack mobility that emphasizes horizontal or downward attacking but lacks of diagonal and vertical attacks. This made all flying based enemies absolute trash to combat against. The freeze mosquitos and scythe throwing ghosts are the best example of "simple" but cheap enemies that can drown your health out basically because you can't position yourself easily to attack them. 2) No projectile attacks until you hit the dragon form (no the Snake spit does not count, the homing staff is unreliable, and the Pig form doesn't work because of lack of item drops) means you have to rely on an extremely small attacking device such as the pigs fist, snakes tail, or the horizontal blade against inconsistent hitboxes that leaves you constantly vulnerable to touch hits that do far too much damage. Additionally at times attacks are not even registered, if you want to even test this IN GAME go to a fire waterfall and attack while jumping towards it and it never registers your ice sword. You have to stand next to it, then jump up stationary, and swing and then it will freeze the waterfall. I understand you're trying to make a difficult game but the combat is not advanced enough to warrant the difficult at times. I beat Dead Cells 100% which is by far much more difficult game than this, but I was never angry or frustrated with the game because it punishes you fairly. This game does not.

  • Defenses: Your defenses within 80% of the game are far too low compared to the enemies of where you're at meaning you'll frequently take 2 full hearts of damage from relatively easy enemies This wouldn't be a problem if you had solid combat (see Dead Cells) but as noted above we don't and are left in awkward combat situations where you'll be berated by low level mushrooms or bats that can take out half of your life in a blink of an eye.

  • Lack of Item Drops: The two issues above could have been band-aid fixed through more regular item drops. But nope. 95% of all item drops are… single currency coins. Which does jack shit. Countless, countless times I am stuck deep in a dungeon, locked at a save point, with ~25% of my health only to have to either reset and warp back to an item shop or just trial and error my way through on basically no health because no fucking enemies ever drop hearts or pig ammo. This is extremely pronounced in the Volcano, Cloud, and Haunted Manor (despite their central heal portals) because you have long winded sections that have dozens of enemies that you have to force your way through with shitty combat and low defenses. Combine this with how long it takes to accumulate wealth in the game and item drops become nearly worthless. I constantly found myself broke and debating whether I should buy a backup potion because I felt like I was wasting money as I wanted to buy new armor and items but they were too costly relative to the frequency of currency obtained within the game. Thank god for the infinite fireball guy in the southwest section of the Volcano as I literally just spent an hour attacking it over and over to get 20 coin drops and just buy everything out. That was annoying as hell too.

  • Saving: the game actually does a pretty decent job at having regular save points to prevent having to retread lots of gained ground. The problem is the game consistently falls into frustrating trial and error bullshit. There were so many times that I hit a check point ahead of a difficult spot with full life and a potion only to get royally pummeled by a long string of overpowered enemies and either ended up finding some "secret" (say a Music sheet or Pig upgrade) that gave me a new save but then I die and get sent back to the original save however now with the reduced life I had when I hit the secret. Making the progression through this area now to be repeated over and over again with little to no life, or I would have to back track/warp to an item shop to heal and get a potion.

  • Abstract and non-intuitive puzzles: I get it, you probably consumer play tested this thing and people of all ages came in and were able to progress but confined, forced "section" research is often biased as it forces users to look within the confounds of the immediate area or what they just played through. The demon language setting is a perfect example of how a normal player would see this as broken, bullshit gameplay. If I play the entire game that is built around item collection and it tells me I need to look for a way to translate the bosses gibberish, I'm automatically going to assume there's an item that does this for me. So I back track through the game thinking I missed something only to have wasted hours and hours of my time because someone along the line thought it would be funny to break the 4th wall (not at the beginning of the game mind you, but almost at the end of the game!) and trigger a menu setting that no one would ever think of doing. If you want to break the 4th wall, do it at the beginning of the game like Conker's Bad Fur Day and make it a recurring puzzle throughout. Other instances of this include having to use fire against a jumping fireball enemy to make it bigger to then jump on and access a hidden music sheet. No where within the game have we ever been able to manipulate enemies through weapons, and now in some hidden room I'm expected to assume I can increase the size of this enemy by throwing my fire on him? The entire Haunted Manor expects you to manipulate light that "carries" over to other rooms when up until this point no other dungeon has had puzzles impact other rooms. Do you see how broken that is? Nintendo is an ace platformer designer because they anticipate confusion or unexpected assumptions from players by easing players into new mechanics in the game that force you to try them. Monster Boy does not do that and repeatedly I was left frustrated not knowing what the hell I was supposed to be doing.

  • Weapon/Item Progression: This was more of just a let down. Early on the game gives you a bit of a Zelda vibe with the pig items but it actually follows a lot of the same problems that players have with the early Zelda titles that you get a new, cool item, that is used extensively for a one dungeon and never used again. This is 100% the case with this game but is actually worse as the use time is even less (see Iron Boots) or the weapon variety is pretty shallow (there's really not much difference between any of the swords). Or the items just don't really provide much variety at all such as the bracelets and shields, which felt like a wasted opportunity.
There's more I could go on and on about but every single one of these is magnified exponentially in the Volcano and Haunted Manor sections as the enemy count increases, combat becomes more important, levels become more narrow or allow for less movement/safety, and puzzles become more contrived and logic is thrown out the window. Am I being overdramatic when I say "fuck this game"? Probably. But as mentioned before, when games like Dead Cells and Hollow Knight exist on the same systems at a fraction of the cost I would never recommend this game over them. That's just reality.
 
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Thomas Kern

Executive Producer at FDG Entertainment
Verified
Nov 7, 2017
224
Germany
I appreciate the response and by no means was not trying to attack anyone. Didn't really expect the person who made the design call to chime in. So apologies for that. I still don't agree with a number of your comments and still stand by the game being heavily broken in the back half of the game. I posted earlier in this thread when I was playing through the beginning and was glowing at how good it was so I'm not some bitter gamer who just wants to bitch and moan, I was just severely disappointed at how a game could achieve such highs and slump to such lows as the game progresses.

First off in regards to reviews/feedback: I'm not alone in this sentiment, multiple people in this thread alone stated that the game is a chore and a slog to get through once you hit the Volcano. Additionally some of your most glowing reviews often don't even address the gameplay mechanics past the Snake form. While I don't want to sound like some conspiracy lunatic here, as someone who has had my own reviews posted to Metacritic, the benchmark to review is incredibly low, and most writers are often submitting review after only a few hours played. It should be no shock that this game has amazing reviews because the first half of the game is very well done, and the charm of the visuals and music makes the package seem incredible.

However, it falls apart around or right before the Volcano level as stated due to inconsistent puzzles, obtuse design, and extremely frustrating combat. I'll list out my grievances:
  • Combat and Hitboxes: This should be no surprise and is probably the major criticism of the game. Two design problems, 1) limited attack mobility that emphasizes horizontal or downward attacking but lacks of diagonal and vertical attacks. This made all flying based enemies absolute trash to combat against. The freeze mosquitos and scythe throwing ghosts are the best example of "simple" but cheap enemies that can drown your health out basically because you can't position yourself easily to attack them. 2) No projectile attacks until you hit the dragon form (no the Snake spit does not count, the homing staff is unreliable, and the Pig form doesn't work because of lack of item drops) means you have to rely on an extremely small attacking device such as the pigs fist, snakes tail, or the horizontal blade against inconsistent hitboxes that leaves you constantly vulnerable to touch hits that do far too much damage. Additionally at times attacks are not even registered, if you want to even test this IN GAME go to a fire waterfall and attack while jumping towards it and it never registers your ice sword. You have to stand next to it, then jump up stationary, and swing and then it will freeze the waterfall. I understand you're trying to make a difficult game but the combat is not advanced enough to warrant the difficult at times. I beat Dead Cells 100% which is by far much more difficult game than this, but I was never angry or frustrated with the game because it punishes you fairly. This game does not.

  • Defenses: Your defenses within 80% of the game are far too low compared to the enemies of where you're at meaning you'll frequently take 2 full hearts of damage from relatively easy enemies This wouldn't be a problem if you had solid combat (see Dead Cells) but as noted above we don't and are left in awkward combat situations where you'll be berated by low level mushrooms or bats that can take out half of your life in a blink of an eye.

  • Lack of Item Drops: The two issues above could have been band-aid fixed through more regular item drops. But nope. 95% of all item drops are… single currency coins. Which does jack shit. Countless, countless times I am stuck deep in a dungeon, locked at a save point, with ~25% of my health only to have to either reset and warp back to an item shop or just trial and error my way through on basically no health because no fucking enemies ever drop hearts or pig ammo. This is extremely pronounced in the Volcano, Cloud, and Haunted Manor (despite their central heal portals) because you have long winded sections that have dozens of enemies that you have to force your way through with shitty combat and low defenses. Combine this with how long it takes to accumulate wealth in the game and item drops become nearly worthless. I constantly found myself broke and debating whether I should buy a backup potion because I felt like I was wasting money as I wanted to buy new armor and items but they were too costly relative to the frequency of currency obtained within the game. Thank god for the infinite fireball guy in the southwest section of the Volcano as I literally just spent an hour attacking it over and over to get 20 coin drops and just buy everything out. That was annoying as hell too.

  • Saving: the game actually does a pretty decent job at having regular save points to prevent having to retread lots of gained ground. The problem is the game consistently falls into frustrating trial and error bullshit. There were so many times that I hit a check point ahead of a difficult spot with full life and a potion only to get royally pummeled by a long string of overpowered enemies and either ended up finding some "secret" (say a Music sheet or Pig upgrade) that gave me a new save but then I die and get sent back to the original save however now with the reduced life I had when I hit the secret. Making the progression through this area now to be repeated over and over again with little to no life, or I would have to back track/warp to an item shop to heal and get a potion.

  • Abstract and non-intuitive puzzles: I get it, you probably consumer play tested this thing and people of all ages came in and were able to progress but confined, forced "section" research is often biased as it forces users to look within the confounds of the immediate area or what they just played through. The demon language setting is a perfect example of how a normal player would see this as broken, bullshit gameplay. If I play the entire game that is built around item collection and it tells me I need to look for a way to translate the bosses gibberish, I'm automatically going to assume there's an item that does this for me. So I back track through the game thinking I missed something only to have wasted hours and hours of my time because someone along the line thought it would be funny to break the 4th wall (not at the beginning of the game mind you, but almost at the end of the game!) and trigger a menu setting that no one would ever think of doing. If you want to break the 4th wall, do it at the beginning of the game like Conker's Bad Fur Day and make it a recurring puzzle throughout. Other instances of this include having to use fire against a jumping fireball enemy to make it bigger to then jump on and access a hidden music sheet. No where within the game have we ever been able to manipulate enemies through weapons, and now in some hidden room I'm expected to assume I can increase the size of this enemy by throwing my fire on him? The entire Haunted Manor expects you to manipulate light that "carries" over to other rooms when up until this point no other dungeon has had puzzles impact other rooms. Do you see how broken that is? Nintendo is an ace platformer designer because they anticipate confusion or unexpected assumptions from players by easing players into new mechanics in the game that force you to try them. Monster Boy does not do that and repeatedly I was left frustrated not knowing what the hell I was supposed to be doing.

  • Weapon/Item Progression: This was more of just a let down. Early on the game gives you a bit of a Zelda vibe with the pig items but it actually follows a lot of the same problems that players have with the early Zelda titles that you get a new, cool item, that is used extensively for a one dungeon and never used again. This is 100% the case with this game but is actually worse as the use time is even less (see Iron Boots) or the weapon variety is pretty shallow (there's really not much difference between any of the swords). Or the items just don't really provide much variety at all such as the bracelets and shields, which felt like a wasted opportunity.
There's more I could go on and on about but every single one of these is magnified exponentially in the Volcano and Haunted Manor sections as the enemy count increases, combat becomes more important, levels become more narrow or allow for less movement/safety, and puzzles become more contrived and logic is thrown out the window. Am I being overdramatic when I say "fuck this game"? Probably. But as mentioned before, when games like Dead Cells and Hollow Knight exist on the same systems at a fraction of the cost I would never recommend this game over them. That's just reality.

First of all, I can take any criticism without hard feelings so It's no problem. I understand that emotions can take over quickly and therefore the wording isn't necessarily 'classy' in your post. However, your post clearly shows that you think in Hollow Knight/Dead Cells combat and progress logic, which doesn't work here because it's a different game with a different strategy for success. It's an explorative game through and through that rewards thorough observation, use of elements, equipment/form choice and smart combination of *all* abilities.

You could reflect the scythes for example with a shield, you can upgrade the fire sword to shoot fireballs early in the game, there's an ice armor to reduce fire damage. There's long range and short range weapons. the heavy boots prevent you from getting blown away by wind, you'd be surprised how many places the game has where you can make good use of each equipment. A bracelet can give back health when you counter strike an enemy immediately, another item nullifies negative effects. Not even mentioning set bonus which is very rewarding.

You say it's obtuse to grow a fire enemy bigger when attacking with fire. Well, fire on fire can have that effect and the game shows it to you in 2 volcano sections where that enemy jumps down a ramp and gets touched by dropping fire with resize effect, or the blob in the sewers that grows when merging with another one. This specific puzzle is still optional though. By observing the game and enemies careful you can learn a lot.

You criticize that the light beam in the haunted mansion stretches through multiple rooms but that's very logical as the windows through which the light ray goes are visible in both rooms and visually connect them with a very visible hint.

The 4th wall puzzle solution is hinted very specifically in text form.

I'm surprised that it's taken as a negative that you can warp back to town and refill energy, I don't know many games that do it so gracefully. You can warp back to the exact spot in the volcano where you opened the portal. The mobile portal stays open until you return through it.

Hit Boxes are very forgiving eg the lions big hair part doesn't count and when you switch forms fast you need to keep in mind that the hit box changes.

I'm not saying the game is perfect but I cannot accept the expression that it's broken. It's not easy, it demands a lot of attention but it gives you the tools and hints to solve and win the game gracefully.
 

Thomas Kern

Executive Producer at FDG Entertainment
Verified
Nov 7, 2017
224
Germany
I got it off www.videoganmesplus.ca as I do most of my imports. Never had an issue with them (okay once, but it's still a really good trackrecord).

/edit: sorry for the doublepost.
I'd recommend them too, we hear good things from videogamesplus.ca as an import game source - unfortunately there's no EU physical release planned. Please be quick though - we sold out all of our inventory of the Launch Edition with manual and stickers- the reprint doesn't have the stickers (but still comes with manual)
 

Ruffy666

Member
Oct 27, 2017
259
I was really looking forward to this game and it really is polished to a high degree but it's just too hard for me. Git gud, hyuk hyuk, but I had to abandon it about 1/3 of the way through because it was becoming more frustrating than fun. I have generally positive feelings towards this game and happy to support the developers but personally I couldn't hack it.
 

Thomas Kern

Executive Producer at FDG Entertainment
Verified
Nov 7, 2017
224
Germany
I was really looking forward to this game and it really is polished to a high degree but it's just too hard for me. Git gud, hyuk hyuk, but I had to abandon it about 1/3 of the way through because it was becoming more frustrating than fun. I have generally positive feelings towards this game and happy to support the developers but personally I couldn't hack it.

I remember your post from January - I think it was about the quick respawning (perhaps even early in the game in pig form?). We updated the early section in 1.0.4 and it'll be easier to find the first life-heart so maybe you want to give it a go once again ;) That particular early section with a very fast respawning cloud was indeed a bit frustrating for some players because the game didn't offer much defense options here (except the green potion against status changes).
 
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Soul Lab

Member
Nov 17, 2017
2,718
I finished this game back in February and I'm still in awe with it. It's so freaking good!
I know it's still early in this year but it will probably end up as my favorite game this year
 

Thomas Kern

Executive Producer at FDG Entertainment
Verified
Nov 7, 2017
224
Germany
I finished this game back in February and I'm still in awe with it. It's so freaking good!
I know it's still early in this year but it will probably end up as my favorite game this year
Very happy to hear that! Congratulations and thank you very much for playing! ^_^ Also big thanks to everyone for the amazing support and (mostly) love! This community is one of the big reasons why the game is a success and it started very early during development process and all the feedback. Have a great week end! (Off & recharging the battery ;))
 
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SOLDIER

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
11,339
Waiting on a digital sale.

So is this game a remake or a spiritual successor? Never played Alex Kidd or whatever series this is supposed to be based on.
 

Alienhated

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,527
It may certainly be the most FUN metroidvania out there, thanks especially to its great pacing, variety, and level design.

But i have to agree with the people that say that it definitely loses its aura of perfection around the Volcano area, even though it's nowhere as bad as some people make it out to be, it's just where it starts to feel a tad less polished and well thought out in my opinion.
I also concur with the sentiment that the Haunted Manor may be so obnoxious that it can singlehandedly manage to make players drop the game altogether.

My second and only other criticism is that the artstyle is a bit too unconsistently japanese looking, i just wish that every npc and enemy actually looked like they did in the animated intro and ending.
But i'm sure that very few people care about that at all.

Overall i think it's still a pretty amazing game, and while there may surely be some kind of quality drop during its second part, it's still an extremely enjoyable adventure in its entirety.
 

Soul Lab

Member
Nov 17, 2017
2,718
It's really interesting to how many think the later part of the game is worse than the first half. Didn't know this was a thing. For me the haunted mansion was the best dungeon by far! I absolutely loved it.
 

grmlin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,285
Germany
I loved Ori but didn't enjoy Hollow Knight. Should I consider playing this?
I'm not really into Metroidvanians, I think Ori was the first I ever finished
 

eXistor

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,274
It may certainly be the most FUN metroidvania out there, thanks especially to its great pacing, variety, and level design.

But i have to agree with the people that say that it definitely loses its aura of perfection around the Volcano area, even though it's nowhere as bad as some people make it out to be, it's just where it starts to feel a tad less polished and well thought out in my opinion.
I also concur with the sentiment that the Haunted Manor may be so obnoxious that it can singlehandedly manage to make players drop the game altogether.
Two of my favorite areas in the game and it's where the game really took off for me. It was a fun little romp up until that point, but the puzzles and challenges starting with the Volcano is where the game started to become something truly special imo.
 

Thomas Kern

Executive Producer at FDG Entertainment
Verified
Nov 7, 2017
224
Germany
I loved Ori but didn't enjoy Hollow Knight. Should I consider playing this?
I'm not really into Metroidvanians, I think Ori was the first I ever finished
I think you'll love Monster Boy because - just like Ori, it goes the extra mile to present very different environments and lots of gameplay variety. You have auto-map available from start and you can use all abilities/unlocked forms anytime once you got them (no need to decide on 2), backtracking is minimal.
 

grmlin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,285
Germany
I think you'll love Monster Boy because - just like Ori, it goes the extra mile to present very different environments and lots of gameplay variety. You have auto-map available from start and you can use all abilities/unlocked forms anytime once you got them (no need to decide on 2), backtracking is minimal.
Sounds great, thanks!
 

Phife Dawg

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,049
Awesome, awesome game, recently came back to it to 100%. For me the game became infinitely better beginning with the volcano, beforehand it was a tad too easy. Only thing I had to look up was the corked well and even then I didn't "get" it. Haunted Manor was a delight to figure out. One design choice I didn't like was Zeke dropping hearts when you lost to a boss a couple of times, at least make it optional. I want to figure out stuff on my own.
 

Thomas Kern

Executive Producer at FDG Entertainment
Verified
Nov 7, 2017
224
Germany
Two of my favorite areas in the game and it's where the game really took off for me. It was a fun little romp up until that point, but the puzzles and challenges starting with the Volcano is where the game started to become something truly special imo.
Thank you & I agree to this 100% - even though I'm the producer I'm also a longtime Metroidvania player and think that these areas are a peak in the genre overall. Often in games I feel like the potential of my character and items never comes to full use but here it really demands full attention and utilization in a very different way. It forces you to really think different than in other games and all character transformations come to good use. As for the Haunted House: It was a bit overwhelming in prior versions of the game but we added a couple hints and 3 map targets in 1.0.4 which helped a lot of players. We didn't have a perfect 1.0 Version but we always listen to player feedback - sometimes very small changes can have big effect and I think the game has become even better over time. It has our full support in the longterm too.
 

FreddeGredde

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,904
This community is one of the big reasons why the game is a success and it started very early during development process and all the feedback.
It's cool to see one of the game developers answer in detail here on resetera! Open communication is great.

I've held off on my criticism towards this game, but since you're here, I'm curious to hear your thoughts on some details that ruined the game for me, and ask whether your team was aware of them but couldn't fix them, or if you don't see them as problems in the first place.

First of all, the bug-like animations that you can trigger all over the place, which I rarely encounter in more polished games:

(Unfortunately these gifs don't have high enough framerate to show the frame-by-frame glitchiness all that clearly, but you probably know what I'm talking about.)

Continuing in the next post...
 

FreddeGredde

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,904
Then we have the more or less glitchy collision detection, and unfortunately I didn't capture some of the actually annoying ones:


Was I REALLY supposed to roll up this spikeball at 0.001 km/h, or was there a different intended solution? I really don't know and it was not fun, and that was a recurring problem with the game design:


This is the main problem I had with the game; the physics are wack as soon as you try something that isn't the intended solution. I unfortunately didn't capture video of this moving box (and many other situations), but it's another example of wonky "let's just patch this up with duct tape and hope no one notices" physics:
zCeaEuo.jpg

All in all, I'm impressed by a lot of things with this game, and it's clear that a lot of love went into it. I just don't understand what happened with the physics/gameplay, because it reminds me of stuff I made in The Games Factory 20 years ago. Maybe for some people, this stuff doesn't matter, but I do hope the next game can be built on a more solid foundation.
 
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Thomas Kern

Executive Producer at FDG Entertainment
Verified
Nov 7, 2017
224
Germany
Then we have the more or less glitchy collision detection, and unfortunately I didn't capture some of the actually annoying ones:


Was I REALLY supposed to roll up this spikeball at 0.001 km/h, or was there a different intended solution? I really don't know and it was not fun, and that was a recurring problem with the game design:


This is the main problem I had with the game; the physics are wack as soon as you try something that isn't the intended solution. I unfortunately didn't capture video of this moving box (and many other situations), but it's another example of wonky "let's just patch this up with duct tape and hope no one notices" physics:
zCeaEuo.jpg

All in all, I'm impressed by a lot of things with this game, and it's clear that a lot of love went into it. I just don't understand what happened with the physics/gameplay, because it reminds me of stuff I made in The Games Factory 20 years ago. Maybe for some people, this stuff doesn't matter, but I do hope the next game can be built on a more solid foundation.
Hi Fredde! The first thought when seeing these animated gifs aligned is, man this game is so beautiful! :) I still love the look of it even after so many years on the project.

I'll respond to a couple of them (I'm at a mobile phone right now so my typing isn't the best)

The solution for the spike ball in haunted house is different. When you roll the ball you'll notice that it's very heavy but it gets momentum the longer you roll it. The table need to be placed in a way that they don't get in the way of the movement. In your sample you misjudge your own setup as ramp but it isn't.

The frog diving: Initially we had the sprite unable to rotate, so you could only attack left or right with your sword while swimming upwards / downwards. This looked more polished but during our gameplay tests we noticed that it plays better when the controls are more direct and when it's possible to diagonally move the sprite and diagonally attack. Also, the sprite reacts directly to the controls. So while the game tries to find the best alignment of the 2D sprite you can force some strange looking results by randomly giving opposite control input. It's not a 3D game so there are limitations on making the sprite look realistic all the time and that's why other games don't do it and reduce control options. We went for the gameplay.

Having in mind that freedom of control/transformations etc, you can sometimes force yourself in a wall collision state that i think is very well handled by the code in most places. It takes an insane amount of coding skill to make the game and the huge amount of mechanics with different characters work like it does. I don't see anything game ruining here.

The block/collision on the frozen dragon snake in the volcano reminds me of Zelda Breath of the Wild where your dash adds up to the physical force while it's stuck. As soon as it got unfrozen it smashed against the wall beautifully :) I think the game handles it nicely, no crash and it works in the end with a nice powerful and surprising fun moment. The game just allows so many things that it's hard to predict all player actions.

Pirate ship shaking left/right plus slipping boxes: There's a mechanic in the game that prevents you from slipping easily from the box on spikes, that (invisible) helping mechanic overrides the physics (like some other things) but we had to do them to avoid unwanted deaths. If you'd put real physics on all things the game wouldn't be very fun to play - Physics can be very unforgiving. So because of our 'hack' it can cause some unwanted effects and maybe we can improve it in future updates.

That's all for now. Enjoy the week-end ^_^
 
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