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I really wish Ganondorf had a moveset that feels more true to him in Smash Bros now more than ever.
- Thread starter Uzumaki Goku
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Incineroar's up+b is high risk, high reward. It gets more verticality than Ganondorf, but all of its horizontal distance is gained when going down. He has no ability to drift after using it and will KO himself if he doesn't get to stage. If he could only do one or the other his recovery would be only slightly better than Mac's if that.
It's not a matter of rules. Different characters are built differently for the sake of game balance.
not that Ganondorf has any massive moveset in the original games
also el o el at the fanbase bitching about sword characters and then wanting another Ike
also el o el at the fanbase bitching about sword characters and then wanting another Ike
I like most of Ganondorf's moveset the way it is and given how absurdly popular he is online it seems a lot of other people do too.
That said, if I had to make one change I'd be to change the neutral B to Dead Man's volley. That is like one of his most iconic moves, it even got referenced in Wind Waker via Phantom Ganon.
Warlock Punch as it stands is a worse version of Falcon Punch without the cool voice line or Fire effect to go along with it. I don't think that move would be missed much (if you want to hit someone real hard with a single attack there's still FSmash and UpTilt).
That said, if I had to make one change I'd be to change the neutral B to Dead Man's volley. That is like one of his most iconic moves, it even got referenced in Wind Waker via Phantom Ganon.
Warlock Punch as it stands is a worse version of Falcon Punch without the cool voice line or Fire effect to go along with it. I don't think that move would be missed much (if you want to hit someone real hard with a single attack there's still FSmash and UpTilt).
Sakurai just doesn't really want to completely change a character's moveset and thus turning them into an entirely different character altogether, like what Capcom did with Jill back in MVC3.
https://nintendoeverything.com/saku...a-plant-character-changes-online-much-more/3/
My guess is that he gives each character their own sort of identity and wants said characters to retain that identity going forward into future installments, as a means of not completely alienating those who liked playing as them in previous games. Ganondorf was born as a Falcon clone, and thus he'll remain a deriative of Falcon at his core, even with all the new changes he's received over the years.
https://nintendoeverything.com/saku...a-plant-character-changes-online-much-more/3/
My guess is that he gives each character their own sort of identity and wants said characters to retain that identity going forward into future installments, as a means of not completely alienating those who liked playing as them in previous games. Ganondorf was born as a Falcon clone, and thus he'll remain a deriative of Falcon at his core, even with all the new changes he's received over the years.
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Yeah, if Black Shadow was to ever be a thing, Brawl was his last chance. I would certainly like A new Zelda character sometime.
I like Ganondorf the way he is, though I can't believe he doesn't have that volley magic attack all these years later. That's *the* signature Ganon/sort move.
I've been maining Ganondorf since 2001 and am more proficient with him than the rest of the cast combined. I would need to rewrite my entire Smash Bros muscle memory if they changed up his moveset
With that in mind, they should absolutely scrap his moveset and redesign him from the ground up to feel like an evil wizard with the same kind of care and detail that new characters get. Ganondorf rules and his moveset should resemble him more than not at all
With that in mind, they should absolutely scrap his moveset and redesign him from the ground up to feel like an evil wizard with the same kind of care and detail that new characters get. Ganondorf rules and his moveset should resemble him more than not at all
Ganondorf without his dead man's volley is no Ganondorf at all #NotMyGanondorf
I actually really like playing him, but yeah it may as well not even be Ganondorf
Real talk though I think this is true of many of the older characters. I'd be fine if they held back on newcomers in the hypothetical next game if it meant overhauling some of the existing roster to closer match the complexity and faithfulness of newer additions. Give DK a roll jump and a barrel throw for the love of god
I actually really like playing him, but yeah it may as well not even be Ganondorf
Real talk though I think this is true of many of the older characters. I'd be fine if they held back on newcomers in the hypothetical next game if it meant overhauling some of the existing roster to closer match the complexity and faithfulness of newer additions. Give DK a roll jump and a barrel throw for the love of god
I'm more bothered by the Triforce Slash. It's not representative of anything the Links do in the Zelda games. Young Link should have Fierce Deity as a Final Smash. He also should have been based on the Majora's Mask design rather than Ocarina of Time. I want justice.
I'll echo the sentiment that I would like Smash 6 to have a pared down roster with returning characters having more faithful movesets
I would very happy with three Zelda characters (Link, Zelda, Ganondorf) if Zelda and Ganondorf felt rooted in the fiction of the games they come from. If you need a fourth character and/or a Sheik replacement, Impa circa Skyward Sword or Age of Calamity would be a good—and canonical!—pick
I would very happy with three Zelda characters (Link, Zelda, Ganondorf) if Zelda and Ganondorf felt rooted in the fiction of the games they come from. If you need a fourth character and/or a Sheik replacement, Impa circa Skyward Sword or Age of Calamity would be a good—and canonical!—pick
like hell I wil have my favourite character being axed just so ganondorf can have a projectile
So which is your favorite character? Link, Link, or Link? And it's not about Ganondorf having a projectile, it's about all legacy characters having movesets that are true to them in the way new character movesets are
none of those 3, but as you talk about "reducing the roster" anyone I care about could be on the chopping block
I mean, yeah. That's sort of the name of the game. I go into this with clear eyes, too: if they reduce the roster, Ganondorf might not be in it at all! He hasn't been really essential to the fiction of the series since, like... 2006? Maybe he'll be big in BOTW2. But even if he is, that might not warrant him a space on a reduced roster!
That's a worthy and healthy trade-off for a uniformly well-crafted roster that feels like the characters they're inspired by
I agree.
Unfortunately, the way he plays is so established in Smash that changing him would probably upset a fair number of people.
Unfortunately, the way he plays is so established in Smash that changing him would probably upset a fair number of people.
Ganondorf and Ganon are the same as far as the story is concerned (especially as the final smash as him trasnforming into the pig so we can really drop the pretense they are separate entities)
So keeping in account that he appeared in almost every Zelda game anyway, Skyward Sword in 2011 was his origin story and BOTW definitely features him, calamity even has his upper body including the gem on the forehead!
He's almost omnipresent in the Zelda series like Bowser is to Mario
And none of that's a guarantee that he would get in!
And that's all right. It would be OK if he wasn't in Smash 6, even if I would be disappointed. Some characters have to be cut from the series going forward! They can't keep having 80+ characters in every entry, carrying every character forward forever. It's not sustainable, just from how much labor it would require.
All fighting games go through this! It's OK! It's healthy. Some old fan-favorites get left by the wayside while others are retooled and new characters are brought in. Smash is overdue for this process, and they can't keep putting it off forever. Sakurai has said, pretty openly, that the "everyone is here" thing can't happen again, right?
I definitely agree. As a matter of fact, most characters like him, Dr. Mario, Daisy, Young Link, Alph, etc. need new movesets, mechanics &/or final smashes to differentiate themselves from other characters or their counterparts.
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Hard agree, OP; it sucks that Ganondorf is still a clone of a character that has nothing to do with Zelda. I mean...no dead man's volley, no spinning boomerang trident, no fire bats, no trident beam, no levitation, none of his cool sword moves from TP or Wind Waker, no nothing! Just Black Shadow wearing a Ganon skin. lol
And what stings even worse is that we all know that he would likely have a more faithful move-set if Sakurai had added him in Brawl or Smash 4.
And what stings even worse is that we all know that he would likely have a more faithful move-set if Sakurai had added him in Brawl or Smash 4.
OP
OP
if anything, keep this game going with DLC. There doesn't need to be a new Smash for a while
Ah well sure, I don't expect a new Smash till like... 2023 or even later
But Ganondorf's not getting a redesign until at least that long
Ganondorf doesn't have any moves directly from his appearances (beside Warlock Punch being a lot like his downward punch in OoT, along with the purple darkness he has at the end of it,) but I do feel like he plays like younger 'dorf would from the start of OoT. Mewtwo has the moveset I think Ganondorf would have if he were given a moveset refresh, to be real
Yeah the choke is easily the one move in his arsenal that feels truly Ganondorf.
Literally none of his moves come from the source material where he has no short supply of moves. If after 4 games they can't bother to give him a unique moveset they should just ditch him altogether and add pig Ganon instead. It would add another heavyweight and a staff user which are both rare traits in Smash.
ironically making him the OOT ganondorf him using a sword makes even less sense, if they kept it the TP ganon the one of the two that used a sword and not a spear(phantom ganon used a spear in OOT normal ganon was unarmed and beast ganon had swords), that smash attack would make sense
OP
OP
They could always give him a unique moveset then add like Black Shadow into the game. Then ganon is unique, his clone move set stays, and f-zero gets a new character because that's not happening otherwise.
You and me both. I've long wondered about how he could be improved, mashing together his various incarnations over the years...
It's fun to pretend.
B: Reflect + Peach-esque drift for a second iff held. Can act with a single A move out of drift in the split second it's active as though grounded.
Side B: Can be angled in a one of two ways:
Down B: Transforms into Ganon for 10 seconds. After he returns to his Ganondorf form, it recharges, gaining 1 second of use every 4 seconds of going unused. Takes a little less than a second to transition either way. Must have a minimum of 5 seconds stored up to use. Ends automatically, and cannot be manually ended.
Then I'd replace his up tilt with something a little less stupid, but yeah...as if.
Side B: Can be angled in a one of two ways:
No Input/Keep Holding Side: Charges up dark energy while doing side grab from Brawl. If this grab does not connect, launches energy 45 degrees down in the form of an energy ball; this ball reflects off surfaces once. Ganondorf is uniquely able to reflect this energy ball with his own melee attacks.
Side-to-Down Motion: Wizard foot. No energy ball, but can be edge canceled.
Up B: Rises up while doing his spinning up-taunt animation; if he connects with anyone in this time, goes into grab explosion, but otherwise emits a shockwave of energy which has strong horizontal knockback. Usable after Wizard foot, but not normal side B.Down B: Transforms into Ganon for 10 seconds. After he returns to his Ganondorf form, it recharges, gaining 1 second of use every 4 seconds of going unused. Takes a little less than a second to transition either way. Must have a minimum of 5 seconds stored up to use. Ends automatically, and cannot be manually ended.
As Ganon:
All A moves which previously used the sword now use the trident for more range, while he has it.
Cannot shield at all, but does not flinch for any attacks doing less than 12% damage.
Moves at 0.8x his already very slow normal speed, with a hitbox closer to 1.5x as large.
B: Unleases a fire keese out in front of him - shoots forward, and can turn once, up to 90 degrees, to track an opponent. Total range is about half of FD. The last 2 meters behind the keese stay on fire for a second; this fire hitbox only deals damage, no knockback
Side B: Throws his trident out in a wide, spinning, slow loop; Ganon uses dual sai dagger, which are identical except for shorter range, with it out; if he contacts the trident hitbox at any point, he regains his normal range and the move ends.
Up B: Rears his arms back and throws himself up, horns first. Exceptionally short range, more like a hop, but can be used twice in the air.
Down B: Spin trident overhead; 3 fireballs form around it. Release to have them spin off in their directions before dissipating after a few meters.
Then I'd replace his up tilt with something a little less stupid, but yeah...as if.
Yeah but at least she was quite good in Smash 4. Don't like the way she plays in Ultimate though.
Also he should have an alt costume with his older OoT look with the long hair. I feel like Nintendo never acknowledges that particular look of Ganondorf. I know he has longer hair but in braids in TP and the wild, luscious hair in Hyrule Warriors, but his older OoT form I think is still the best look of him.
Anyway, Ganondorf has beautiful hair and Nintendo needs to acknowledge it more, is what I'm saying.
Anyway, Ganondorf has beautiful hair and Nintendo needs to acknowledge it more, is what I'm saying.
I agree with OP and I must say that I absolutely hate Toon Link. It's so unimaginative, why they didn't gave some wind wake moves? He show have some wind magic.
They should make Link/Young Link/Toon Link as diferent as Ryu/Ken/Gouki are in Street Fighter V.
They should make Link/Young Link/Toon Link as diferent as Ryu/Ken/Gouki are in Street Fighter V.
I'm among the crowd who's grown to like this manifestation of power just pounding people with his fists, so I'm kinda biased when I'm saying this:
Ganondorf's problem is that, as a human, he doesn't really HAVE iconic moves besides the ground pound and Dead Man's Volley (which would feel weird giving him a projectile with his current up-close playstyle). "I really liked the way he swung his sword that one time"... nah
Not to mention he's never had a consistent fighting style—magic one game, twin swords the next, trident in Hyrule Warriors. He'd either be a hodgepodge or have to have most of his kit made up for Smash, which isn't THAT different from his current state
I think at this point, I'd change a couple of his moves like Neutral Air and Down Special to use the trident, make him do the cape flip for his parry
or just make playable Ganon, that'd be cool too
Ganondorf's problem is that, as a human, he doesn't really HAVE iconic moves besides the ground pound and Dead Man's Volley (which would feel weird giving him a projectile with his current up-close playstyle). "I really liked the way he swung his sword that one time"... nah
Not to mention he's never had a consistent fighting style—magic one game, twin swords the next, trident in Hyrule Warriors. He'd either be a hodgepodge or have to have most of his kit made up for Smash, which isn't THAT different from his current state
I think at this point, I'd change a couple of his moves like Neutral Air and Down Special to use the trident, make him do the cape flip for his parry
or just make playable Ganon, that'd be cool too
Yeah I've always hated him being a slower but more powerful Capt Falcon. I was hoping to see more of his signature moves.
I'd love to have Ganondorf hit me with the warlock punch in a zelda game
Ganondorf is one of my favourite characters to play as in smash, so I'd they wanted to change him up completely I'd 100% a separate Ganon character. But I also want a lot of other Zelda characters before him.
It's still fun to hope for something different, though I do agree he's not super likely to get significant redesigns
It's also OK, I think, to look at some characters—DK, Samus, Ganondorf being easy examples—and say "They should really feel more like they were designed today, rather than being married to character design principles from 20 years ago"
That's not quite true since Smash Ganondorf has never been acknowledged outside of Smash, so it's not like Zelda Ganondorf is somehow overshadowed or replaced by him.