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aevanhoe

Slayer of the Eternal Voidslurper
Member
Aug 28, 2018
7,323
Sorry for not posting this in the OT, but I wanted to share this particular experience. I've played most of Froms Souls games, I killed a few bosses in Dark Souls III, Bloodborne and Sekiro - but there was always a breaking point, a place where I gave up because it was just too hard. I made a thread on this forum where I argued Souls games need difficulty levels - you can find it and see me ranting. I actually never planned on playing another Souls game - but the remake of Demon's Souls and the fact a new generation is here - got me to play it again.

And it was tough playing this game. It's actually not the difficulty itself, it's a psychological thing for me, there is something in that mechanic where you have to reach the boss after dying (and potentially loosing souls) and in every fight I have this fear of dying again and having to do a run all over again (which in my case actually means being more tired, impatient and worse at it). Well, with King Allant - it's even worse than that. It's horrible, actually. I'm sure if you're reading this thread you know he has this mechanic where he de-levels you with an attack, erasing hours of gameplay and leveling. Dying multiple times in this fight may mean loosing hours and hours of gameplay (at least for me).

I knew of this mechanic when I got into the fight. I didn't invest anything in magic, and almost every video I watched used some kind of magic. I went in just with my Dragon Bone Smasher, a lot of grass and courage. You can imagine my heart pounding when I entered the chamber. I could literally feel it beating. After a brief fight - he defeated me and de-leveled me. I feld really bad. I thought no game is worth this.

But here's the thing. Earlier in this game - I was about to quit entirely because of one boss - the Flamelurker. I vented in the OT and people like Sanctuary and Morrigan gave me some good advice. And then there was Finale Fireworker - their help was on a different level. Fireworker gifted me a month of PS+ just to be able to help me - and I refused initially, I just didn't feel like spending anyone's money for this (I can easily afford it but I just didn't want to do it for just one game as I don't need anything else and rarely play multiplayer) - but they insisted - as a gift for pushing on in a hard game. I was honestly moved by this and I accepted. Fireworker gave me advice and helped me gain a lot of souls by letting me kill them in an invasion in order to help. I was really touched by this and the response of this community, that I pressed on. So I killed Flamelurker, then the Dragon God. I killed Maneater and Old Monk. I killed Penetrator. I just kept pushing on - as tough as it was. I meant what I said that I was touched by the help I received and felt I needed to go on.

So this is the reason I tried again with King Allant - even after this fight where I lost a level, even after I got even more frightened to try again. You can't possibly imagine the level of anxiety this gave me. I tried again and he killed me again. Then I tried once more - he de-leveled me again and killed me. Fuck this shit. And then I tried again.

....

And I did it. I killed the old fuck. I fucking did it.

I yelled in excitement - so much that my wife thought I was crazy. I don't think I've ever felt this way about a game.

And yes, I know - there is this NG+ thing and for a lot of you this was probably a simple fight - and I wouldn't be surprised if there is a much greater challenge later in this game. But for someone who gave up after a few bosses in all those games before because of fear and anxiety - this was an insane challenge and I did it. And I did it by staying calm, telling myself that I can do it, by dodging and hitting with a big sword, then staying calm and telling myself I can do it, then hitting again and dodging again and trying to keep calm in what seemed the longest boss fight in any game I played (while in reality, it wasn't that long, of course). And I did it.

Now, I don't know what awaits me further in this game. I don't know if I'll be able to finish Demon's Souls. Even though I've cleared first three worlds, I haven't beaten any of the bosses in worlds 4 and 5. I'm sure someone will say "you think Allant was tough? Cute. Wait until you see the Eternal Voidslurper in 4-4!" or something like that. But still, I have this fight.

And it feels good. It feels really good.

Thanks to everyone who helped. You are true demon slayers.
 
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Aadiboy

Member
Nov 4, 2017
3,640
King Allant is easy if you've played Dark Souls first. He's basically Ornstein without Smough.
 

Elandyll

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
8,806
Congrats man! :)
There's something to be said about tough fights in Souls games and how satisfying it is when you end up wrecking bosses.
 
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aevanhoe

aevanhoe

Slayer of the Eternal Voidslurper
Member
Aug 28, 2018
7,323
King Allant is easy if you've played Dark Souls first. He's basically Ornstein without Smough.

Hah, I knew someone would say "it's easy". Well, nothing in this game is easy for me. And I never played Dark Souls, only DS III - and not much of it. I have no idea who Ornstein is or Smough. I tried to explain why this was so tough for me.
 

Sanctuary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,203
And I did it. I killed the old fuck. I fucking did it.

I yelled in excitement - so much that my wife thought I was crazy. I don't think I've ever felt this way about a game.

And yes, I know - there is this NG+ thing and for a lot of you this was probably a simple fight - and I wouldn't be surprised if there is a much greater challenge later in this game. But for someone who gave up after a few bosses in all those games before because of fear and anxiety - this was an insane challenge and I did it. And I did it by staying calm, telling myself that I can do it, by dodging and hitting with a big sword, then staying calm and telling myself I can do it, then hitting again and dodging again and trying to keep calm in what seemed the longest boss fight in any game I played (while in reality, it wasn't that long, of course). And I did it.

Now, I don't know what awaits me further in this game. I don't know if I'll be able to finish Demon's Souls. Even though I've cleared first three worlds, I haven't beaten any of the bosses in worlds 4 and 5. I'm sure someone will say "you think Allant was tough? Cute. Wait until you see the Eternal Voidslurper in 4-4!" or something like that. But still, I have this fight.

And it feels good. It feels really good.

Thanks to everyone who helped. You are true demon slayers.

Congrats, but don't stop now. You've actually killed all of the difficult bosses. I swear.
 

ScoobsJoestar

Member
May 30, 2019
4,071
Congratulations! That "holy shit why am I doing this to myself and - FUCK YOU THING THAT DOESN'T EVEN EXIST I AM YOUR GOD NOW" feeling is amazing and I cherish it dearly. I'm glad you got to experience it!
 

Deleted member 16908

Oct 27, 2017
9,377
Congratulations! If you can beat Demon's Souls, you can beat any other game in the series. I highly recommend playing Dark Souls 1 next.
 

Aurongel

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
7,065
To be fair, him de-leveling the player is a spectacularly shitty mechanic that I'm glad the series quickly did away with. Playing the remake made me realize just how much superior Dark Souls is in almost every way thanks in large part to the small but significant QoL changes.
 

Francesco

Member
Nov 22, 2017
2,521
this is how I feel about the Souls games

maxresdefault.jpg


with multiple steps.
Hard, frustrating, repetitive. When you finally do it, great job! Now pile up 4 bottles.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,073
Now, I don't know what awaits me further in this game. I don't know if I'll be able to finish Demon's Souls. Even though I've cleared first three worlds, I haven't beaten any of the bosses in worlds 4 and 5. I'm sure someone will say "you think Allant was tough? Cute. Wait until you see the Eternal Voidslurper in 4-4!" or something like that. But still, I have this fight.

Everyone has a different relationship with difficulty in regards to bosses, but with the Flamelurker, the Maneater and King Allant down, there are certainly no boss left to give you more trouble than those. The worst (the best ?) is behind you :)

Also, yeah, I don't think I'm going against Allant ever again without a magic build. That de-leveling mechanic gave me PTSD back in PS3 :p
 

OCD Guy

Member
Nov 2, 2017
985
. Well, with King Allant - it's even worse than that. It's horrible, actually. I'm sure if you're reading this thread you know he has this mechanic where he de-levels you with an attack, erasing hours of gameplay and leveling. Dying multiple times in this fight may mean loosing hours and hours of gameplay (at least for me).

What the fuck?

I don't know if I'll be able to do this knowing that. So in theory after dying I may have to spend hours re-grinding just to get back to the same point?

Throughout my time playing this game I've hit several walls where I think " I can't be bothered to play this game anymore" but I go back to it, get past the wall, feel good, hit another wall and rinse and repeat.

But that mechanic sounds like some real bullshit.

It's the same as the whole the more you die (in human form) the harder the world gets. Did the developers ever comment about the logic in these decisions?
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,038
Great post OP. I feel similarly about the bosses in souls games and you can feel both the tension and relief in your post. I hope you manage to get to the end.
 

Mass One

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,116
I didn't understand demon souls. Even tho I beat DS2&3 and BB. So I overleveled to beat the flame lurker and accidentally made the rest of the game a cake walk. Glad you beat him, think I had the same feeling beating flame lurker.

But I think allant even at power level 9001 is pretty flowchart. Very fun, quite enjoyed it.
 

MonadL

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,888
Cool story OP. Yeah Allant is intimidating as fuck since you're constantly in fear of losing a level. Luckily once you figure out his pattern he's not too bad. Flamelurker still gives me nightmares and Maneater is just bullshit. Still super enjoyable bosses though.
 

Bradford

terminus est
Member
Aug 12, 2018
5,423
I am very glad to read this post. It is very good.

I am proud of you for overcoming the obstacles put in front of you, Slayer of Demons.
 
Dec 8, 2018
1,911
First off congratulations!!!

You have a easy road ahead when it comes to bosses actually so that should definitely not be your concern IMO. The levels however are harder but just take it slow and you will be fine.
 

Musubi

Unshakable Resolve - Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
23,611
If you can beat Allant and Flamelurker you can beat Demon's Souls. Those are two of the top tier bosses for difficulty. You've got this. Keep pressing on.
 

Viale

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,614
Lol king allant and penetrator are legit the toughest bosses in the game ( notably at that).You've basically beaten demon souls, so congrats!
 
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aevanhoe

aevanhoe

Slayer of the Eternal Voidslurper
Member
Aug 28, 2018
7,323
I had no idea he deleveled you?! Just beat him last night. Hated the run to him every time I lost

Oh yeah, the run was brutal. Even after killing the dragon (and spending 600 arrows) - the Red Eye Knights and the Officials were really tiring. And yeah, he de-levels you if he grabs you. It's not that hard to avoid, but again - nothing is that hard on it's own, it was just the psychological effect it had on me that made the fight so much harder.
 

Ramirez

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,228
I felt this way about Maneater, my heart was pounding when I finally killed them, lol.

The game's should still have difficulty settings. My kid has been enjoying Spider-Man so much on the setting that doesn't allow you to get downed in combat. It's gate keeping bullshit, TBH.

I over heard a GS employee the other night dissuading a couple from buying DS because of its brutal difficulty and no way to pick easier settings. Perplexing to me that the devs don't want more money from a more accessible game.
 

Biosnake

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,238
Wait I had no idea he could delevel you, that's crazy. Luckily I dont think he ever did that to me.
 

Qurupeke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,275
Fight might feel intimidating, because of the big AoE attack or the deleveling grab, but it's actually not that bad. All his attacks are quite easy to predict and dodge, and the big AoE is actually a great way to either heal or do some extra damage, because it takes too long and he's basically vulnerable when he does it. I think Demon's Souls difficulty is more in the world itself rather than its bosses. In any case, congratulations.
 

julia crawford

Took the red AND the blue pills
Member
Oct 27, 2017
35,146
I no shielded this dude with a hiltless.

Unfortunately i have never done anything as cool as that ever again and it marked the very top of my life which has dwindled deeper and deeper into meaninglessness ever since.
 

Dasik

Member
Nov 29, 2020
12
Congrats, the feeling of beating bosses in souls games make me want to keep going. It's all about learning there movement/attacks. Greats feeling to beat boss that you have played over and over.
 

black070

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
5,583
That story is just *chefs kiss* - nice work OP. That feeling of finally overcoming a hurdle in a Souls game is second to none.
 
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aevanhoe

aevanhoe

Slayer of the Eternal Voidslurper
Member
Aug 28, 2018
7,323
What the fuck?

I don't know if I'll be able to do this knowing that. So in theory after dying I may have to spend hours re-grinding just to get back to the same point?

Throughout my time playing this game I've hit several walls where I think " I can't be bothered to play this game anymore" but I go back to it, get past the wall, feel good, hit another wall and rinse and repeat.

But that mechanic sounds like some real bullshit.

It's the same as the whole the more you die (in human form) the harder the world gets. Did the developers ever comment about the logic in these decisions?

Well, yeah - regrinding. But, I know this sounds lame - I honestly think that if I was able to do it, so can you. It is a bit bullshit - but you can leave him for last, if I understood the system correctly. And the fight is not *that* hard, it just takes staying calm :)

Also - dying in human form makes things more difficult but I got around it by just dropping to death in the Nexus (no negative side-effects) and using the Cling Ring which reduces the health decrease in soul form. You can find it really early on and I haven't taken it off since I found it.
 
Oct 26, 2017
19,736
Congrats, OP. But you aren't prepared for the Eternal Voidslurper.

And WHAT?! King Allant de-levels you?! I beat him 1st try, but never realized. He definitely slapped me around a lot.
 

Spiderman

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,995
Gg my man. Never played Demons Souls but I know the feeling of winning those kind of fights.
 

OCD Guy

Member
Nov 2, 2017
985
Well, yeah - regrinding. But, I know this sounds lame - I honestly think that if I was able to do it, so can you. It is a bit bullshit - but you can leave him for last, if I understood the system correctly.

Also - dying in human form makes things more difficult but I got around it by just dropping to death in the Nexus (no negative side-effects) and using the Cling Ring which reduces the health decrease in soul form. You can find it really early on and I haven't taken it off since I found it.

If there's a way of cheesing him I'll be able to do it. I've had to cheese 3 bosses as I'm so terrible at this game. Tower Knight by hiding where the archers normally are and firing spells, the spider by standing in a space in the tunnel where it's fireballs can't touch me, and flamelurker by summoning help and standing back while they killed him lol.

Oh yeah I suicide every time in the nexus, I found that out after reading about it online. But it's annoying having to do that.

I just wonder why they introduced those mechanics. Can't have been popular as they've not included it in other games right?
 
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aevanhoe

aevanhoe

Slayer of the Eternal Voidslurper
Member
Aug 28, 2018
7,323
That story is just *chefs kiss* - nice work OP. That feeling of finally overcoming a hurdle in a Souls game is second to none.

Thanks :) Yeah, I've experienced the feeling a bit before - but never in this capacity :) Flamelurker was huge for me. A tough fight. And, of course, King Allant.
 

Deleted member 36578

Dec 21, 2017
26,561
Grats!!!!!!!
Don't let anyone tell you this game is easy. It's certainly not. Even when people say "magic is easy mode", it's not. There are things to exploit yes, but Demons Souls is a difficult game to beat and you've been beating it.
 

Abylim

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,023
Australia
King Allant is a monster, i too felt crazy awesome when I finally beat him, all those years ago when it first came out. He's one of the nastiest bosses due to the de level attack.

its great to see you stuck with it, these games are best when you meet a difficult encounter and overcome it, i think.

Awesome story
 

ElephantShell

10,000,000
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,912
I'm a big fan of the King Allant fight. It's pretty fun without being super frustrating. I like the "duel" style fights in the souls series where it's you vs another humanoid enemy one on one with a moveset not dissimilar to what you can do

The de-leveling attack is more stressful to think about than it actually is difficult in practice. I think he only pulled it out one time when I faced him? I don't recall hearing stories of people truly getting fucked over by that attack, but it's a neat and unique mechanic.
 

Bedlam

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,536
I yelled in excitement - so much that my wife thought I was crazy. I don't think I've ever felt this way about a game.
That is the reason why these games don't come with easier difficulty options. They are designed with exactly the experience in mind that you described.

Congrats OP. It was an enjoyable read, too.
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,308
Congratulations OP! Very proud of you :) I love reading stories like these. It's make makes these games so special.

For what it's worth, the hardest bosses are all behind you. You do have some tough levels ahead, but the bosses should not be a problem.

Good luck and keep pressing on!

480451876220043275.png
 
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aevanhoe

aevanhoe

Slayer of the Eternal Voidslurper
Member
Aug 28, 2018
7,323
Congrats OP. It was an enjoyable read, too.

Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it!

Congratulations OP! Very proud of you :) I love reading stories like these. It's make makes these games so special.

For what it's worth, the hardest bosses are all behind you. You do have some tough levels ahead, but the bosses should not be a problem.

Good luck and keep pressing on!

480451876220043275.png

Thanks! And thanks for the equipment burden advice, it really helped. I will press on!
 

BlueManifest

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,317
If you can beat Allant and Flamelurker you can beat Demon's Souls. Those are two of the top tier bosses for difficulty. You've got this. Keep pressing on.
I thought maneater was harder than both of them

Probably depends what lvl you are when you pick which bosses to fight
 
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Scarface

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,076
Canada
Do you just lose one level from a random stat or is it worse than that?

Yeah you lose one stat.

The mechanic itself is total bullshit but it fits into the lore and backstory why he has it. Also, its a pretty telegraphed attack with short range.

Im not defending it whatsoever. Im glad the did away with that.