I need help - my son made purchases on discord through google play and PayPal

Deleted member 41178 · Jan 15, 2021

Reckheim said:
umm ... maybe I'm wrong, but when I was 13, $2000 was a monumental amount of money for me. 13 year olds are not that young.

Thinking it's a monumental amount of money isn't having an understanding though, at that age I'd imagine the kid has no idea how much his parents earn, what the bills are etc. that's when you start to have an understanding on money.

I think financial planning should be taught to children as young as possible to give them a firmer understanding. I know when I was 13(I remember this as my dad had bought a fishing boat just after I turned 13) I thought my parents were hugely wealthy, looking back now though I understand that they were doing very well but no where near the sort of money I imagined they had.

Grenchel · Jan 15, 2021

I inadvertently used my parents credit card to pick up some halo 2 maps and I felts horrible for six months. I paid them back, but I just hated how I used their money without asking. It felts like a betrayal.

Can't imagine doing this.

cw_sasuke · Jan 15, 2021

RolandOfGilead said:
Thinking it's a monumental amount of money isn't having an understanding though, at that age I'd imagine the kid has no idea how much his parents earn, what the bills are etc. that's when you start to have an understanding on money.

I think financial planning should be taught to children as young as possible to give them a firmer understanding. I know when I was 13(I remember this as my dad had bought a fishing boat just after I turned 13) I thought my parents were hugely wealthy, looking back now though I understand that they were doing very well but no where near the sort of money I imagined they had.

I dont know man...you would have to be really rich to not know at 13 that spending 2000 USD/€ secretly from your parents account could become an issue down the line. I get your overall point but...at some point, you just gotta the the responsibility and own up to your wrongdoings.

Kids in that age know the worth of money from their allowance, they know what consoles and smartphones etc. and how long you have to save for that shit if you wanna buy it on your own. 2k is too much to just brush it off as....boys gonna be boys.

Reckheim · Jan 15, 2021

RolandOfGilead said:
Thinking it's a monumental amount of money isn't having an understanding though, at that age I'd imagine the kid has no idea how much his parents earn, what the bills are etc. that's when you start to have an understanding on money.

I think financial planning should be taught to children as young as possible to give them a firmer understanding. I know when I was 13(I remember this as my dad had bought a fishing boat just after I turned 13) I thought my parents were hugely wealthy, looking back now though I understand that they were doing very well but no where near the sort of money I imagined they had.

Maybe we are looking at it from different perspectives. I grew up fairly poor (one game a year type of poor).

I learned the importance of money at a very early age; but its probably because we grew up in different environments.

I still say 13year olds should know better regardless of their upbringing. Aren't you basically starting high school at that age?

Peebs · Jan 15, 2021

JoeNut said:
At 13 I had a job after school and on weekends, my parents made me get a job to save money so I could buy a pc. It taught me the value of money.

Your kid needs a job, imo. I washed dishes.

Child labour is illegal.

"I had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night half an hour before I went to bed"

Kyuuji · Jan 15, 2021

Peebs said:
"I had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night half an hour before I went to bed"

This sentence is making my brain short circuit.

rrc1594 · Jan 15, 2021

Where do you guys live where your okay sending your kids outside with no phone?

8bit · Jan 15, 2021

Kyuuji said:
This sentence is making my brain short circuit.

When we got home, our Dad and our mother would kill us and dance about on our graves singing Hallelujah.

big_z · Jan 15, 2021

Rosebud said:
"Actions have consequences" exactly, these $2000 were easily available to him through a phone he was given. This is a consequence.

He needs to learn the value of money, but saying he should pay with monthly interest or be shamed online is crazy. Hopefully he really goes to a child therapist, because they study for that unlike forum users.

Interest is annual. 18% is pretty standard rate for credit cards and on the lower side. The kid needs incentive to pay off his debt faster and not prolong his punishment. If there is no incentive he will won't follow through working it off.

Peebs said:
Child labour is illegal.

You can start work at 13 here. Not sure what the law is where the op is located as it varies. Kid will likely be washing dishes or fast food but should be able to pay it back in 2-4 months depending on his motivation.

rrc1594 said:
Where do you guys live where your okay sending your kids outside with no phone?

WTF. where do you live that a phone is required survival gear?

TitanicFall · Jan 15, 2021

rrc1594 said:
Where do you guys live where your okay sending your kids outside with no phone?

Hmm, different times I guess. Didn't have a phone until I was 20.

rrc1594 · Jan 15, 2021

big_z said:
Interest is annual. 18% is pretty standard rate for credit cards and on the lower side. The kid needs incentive to pay off his debt faster and not prolong his punishment. If there is no incentive he will won't follow through working it off.

You can start work at 13 here. Not sure what the law is where the op is located as it varies. Kid will likely be washing dishes or fast food but should be able to pay it back in 2-4 months depending on his motivation.

WTF. where do you live that a phone is required survival gear?

TitanicFall said:
Hmm, different times I guess. Didn't have a phone until I was 20.

At 13 I was going home by myself and staying home by myself. So yeah my mom got me a phone. I grew up in NYC and wouldn't feel comfortable with my kid going home by themselves without a phone.

MrNelson · Jan 15, 2021

darz1 said:
Yeah he is definitely banned from phones and gaming devices, I don't think he can work until he is 15 though

If I were you, I'd be selling whatever games and consoles he has until you either hit the amount he spent, or it's all gone and have him work off the rest doing stuff around the house. He's obviously not going to be using them at any point in the near future, and you and your partner bought it all for him anyway, so I say it's time to collect. Were they younger, or the amount much smaller, I'd say just revoke their gaming/hanging out priveleges for whatever period of weeks or months, but at 13 years old you damn well know better than to just take 2 grand from your parents.

Puroresu_kid said:
Humans ain't perfect. Kids especially. Yeah the kid fucked up but damn some ya'll need to calm down.

Having to eat $2k can be financially crippling for most people, especially in a time like this. 38% of people here in the US wouldn't be able to come up with $500 in an emergency without selling something.

Deleted member 16876 · Jan 15, 2021

RolandOfGilead said:
How long do you think it would take a 13 year old to earn 2k? Being brutally honest this is on the parent, it's on us to do the research and make sure whatever tech etc. we make available to our children especially at that age is appropriate and secure.

Most 13 year olds have no real concept of how much money 2k is or how long that'd take to earn.

This is going to be a great teaching moment for both parent and child if handled correctly, I think the worst thing the OP could do though is hand this off for the mum to deal with.

Well they don't need to fully commit to it. OP can always say this is enough when he feels the kid understand.

The point is so the kid learns that money is really hard to earn and they can't throw it away on contests and useless stuff.

Kyuuji · Jan 15, 2021

8bit said:
When we got home, our Dad and our mother would kill us and dance about on our graves singing Hallelujah.

Appreciate the grounding of that quote lol (and the laughs!).

Sirhc · Jan 15, 2021

ChoklitCow said:
if you have super dad powers go ahead and use them and your kid will never once think about calling a 1-900 porn line during his blossoming adolescence.

Um...wtf kinda "dog" were you calling???

MechaMarmaset · Jan 15, 2021

cw_sasuke said:
I dont know man...you would have to be really rich to not know at 13 that spending 2000 USD/€ secretly from your parents account could become an issue down the line. I get your overall point but...at some point, you just gotta the the responsibility and own up to your wrongdoings.

I feel like this is a class thing maybe. All the more well off parents I've met never tell their kids about their money. My parents were bad with money and low income, so I was always aware of the money. Sorry I can't give you lunch money today cause we ran out. We had to file for bankruptcy when I was 10 and we were told why we probably weren't going to be getting anything for Christmas. Money was always talked about. I knew how much the house payment was, how much we spent on electricity, etc.

I dunno. Kids should be taught about money even younger these days. All these companies are allowed to peddle gambling to them, so they need to understand the risks and be able to conceptualize it more than kids of previous generations.

Deleted member 41178 · Jan 15, 2021

cw_sasuke said:
I dont know man...you would have to be really rich to not know at 13 that spending 2000 USD/€ secretly from your parents account could become an issue down the line. I get your overall point but...at some point, you just gotta the the responsibility and own up to your wrongdoings.

Kids in that age know the worth of money from their allowance, they know what consoles and smartphones etc. and how long you have to save for that shit if you wanna buy it on your own. 2k is too much to just brush it off as....boys gonna be boys.

I definitely think there should be some consequences for the child, but making him go out to work at 13 seems a bit much, in the UK you can work at 13 but only for a limited number of hours and there is no minimum wage, Say someone is feeling generous and offers £4 an hour, which is above minimum wage for a 16 year old, it'd take 500 hours to earn that. Now taking into account you can only work 5 hours on a Saturday and 2 on a Sunday that would take just over 70 weekends to pay off. They can work in the week a maximum of 2 hours per day, but ignore in this example. Also do you really want your kid out of the house in the current pandemic.

I think this probably comes down in part by the fact they were spending the money in little bits here and there and not getting caught, yeah 2k might sound like a lot to him but if he has not been caught when spending 10, 20, 30 etc. he might just be thinking great this isn't that big a deal.

The problem is though I think "boys will be boys" unless we teach them not to be.

I'm going to be honest and say that financially myself and my family do very well for ourselves, but I can't think of a situation where I wouldn't notice 2k being taken from our accounts even over a long period of time, that's what alerts, notifications and just manually checking are for.

I_love_potatoes · Jan 15, 2021

darz1 said:
ok I had a talk with my son and he said that he was gifting Nitro subscriptions through Discord but to give people Gems in the Brawlstars game they were sharing accounts and passwords

If your son was signing into their accounts and putting in your payment information, there's a possibility he didn't remove the payment information from their accounts either.

If I were you, I would ban him from any gaming for AT LEAST a year so he can learn a lesson. Also, if those friends are friends he knows in real life, I would contact their parents and let them know what happened, so they can check if their kids haven't done the same thing.

Relix · Jan 15, 2021

Never, under any circumstance, link PayPal to your bank account. It's impossible to deal with. Credit card? Yep. Chargeback and deal with the mess. The bank will do it.

Encephalon · Jan 15, 2021

Contact google immediately. However, the number and nature of the purchases might make it difficult to undo. If google refuses, which they may or may not, you might be able to work something out with the developer, even partially. The latter will probably have the accounts permanently banned.

Sharing accounts? You might need to decouple that PayPal account asap.

Goldenroad · Jan 15, 2021

Don't commit bank fraud. No games or non-school related internet for a year.

I don't know about sending him out into the workforce at 13, but I'm sure there are ways you can get him to help out around the house that will try to instill a sense of responsibility. Like, he's going to be responsible for doing all the dishes and yardwork over the next 12 months, and you'll "pay" him for it, but that money will be used to pay off his $2000 debt. So like every time he does the dishes that's $5 towards paying down the $2000. Same with mowing the lawn and so forth.

Reckheim · Jan 15, 2021

if it was an honest mistake, don't punish him for an entire year like many people are saying here.

if he knew what he was doing however ...

MrNelson · Jan 15, 2021

Reckheim said:
if it was an honest mistake, don't punish him for an entire year like many people are saying here.

if he knew what he was doing however ...

I don't know about Brawl Stars, but Discord doesn't obfuscate how much a Nitro sub costs. It tells you right up-front that this gift sub is going to cost you $X.xx

piratepwnsninja · Jan 15, 2021

Puroresu_kid said:
The bank should have recognised this as well. I know with my account if repeat transactions are made they put a stop on the card and they text me asking me to confirm I made them.

If they were done via PayPal, since they have authentication, most banks won't flag anything done through that.

smisk · Jan 15, 2021

Better hope we get that next stimulus check soon.

Closest thing I did to this was running over the data cap on my flip phone ~2007 from looking at too much porn (this was before 3g so it was some really shitty slow web browser). I think there was a time limit for how long you could use the mobile web for and then it charged you like $20 to refill it, I did this maybe half a dozen times before my dad noticed and told me to stop. They never knew what I was looking at though.

I think if I ever have kids I'll get them their own debit card from an early age so I don't have to worry about this stuff.

Puroresu_kid · Jan 15, 2021

piratepwnsninja said:
If they were done via PayPal, since they have authentication, most banks won't flag anything done through that.

I see. Yeah that PayPal app really helps then as that does sent notifications whenever a payment has been made.

Thwomp · Jan 15, 2021

i think your son needs a time out

Sixfortyfive · Jan 15, 2021

Confiscate his stuff and sell it off to cover whatever debt can't be refunded. Let him keep some things that he really values, but then withhold some future gifts until the difference is made up.

Or until he gets the point and understands the gravity of what he's done, rather. I don't think that should take that long.

People in this thread saying that 13 year olds don't understand how much money is really worth are nuts. At 13yo $100 was a big deal for me. $2000 was a fuckin' high-end computer.

rrc1594 said:
Where do you guys live where your okay sending your kids outside with no phone?

Generational divide. Many posters on this forum wouldn't have had a cell phone until they graduated high school.

super-famicom · Jan 15, 2021

Reckheim said:
if it was an honest mistake, don't punish him for an entire year like many people are saying here.

if he knew what he was doing however ...

One of OP's later posts stated that the son was sharing account login details with friends, so multiple people bought Brawlstar's in game currency.

I need help - my son made purchases on discord through google play and PayPal

At 13 I had a job after school and on weekends, my parents made me get a job to save money so I could buy a pc. It taught me the value of money. Your kid needs a job, imo. I washed dishes.

www.resetera.com

ElNino · Jan 15, 2021

Sixfortyfive said:
Generational divide. Many posters on this forum wouldn't have had a cell phone until they graduated high school.

Indeed. I bought my first phone when I was 20, and we bought our son his first iPhone when he was 10 and was taking the bus to school.

I know my kids don't appreciate money and having a job the same way I did when I was their age, but we also have a much higher incomes than my parents ever did (and two less children). There is a balance to instilling work ethic in a child and also providing them with things which you feel will help them succeed.

lambdaupsilon · Jan 15, 2021

"no internet for a year"
y'all know that you kind of can't socialize in person right now, right? do you really think it's a good idea to make the only interpersonal contact a kid has be with parents and teachers for a year? clown shoes

Star Parodier · Jan 15, 2021

Peebs said:
Child labour is illegal.

There's a big difference between some sort of stop going to school and spending all day in a sweatshop and doing some chores and jobs around the neighborhood like mowing lawns or shoveling snow. There's no reason why the kid shouldn't pay back the money by doing some extra work around the house or neighborhood.

Deleted member 10629 · Jan 15, 2021

darz1 said:
I'm trying to figure all this out. I went into his Discord and read some messages. It looks like he made a whole lot of purchases for himself in the Brawlstars game but then he started buying Nitro subscriptions for discord and basically handing them out to people. Then it looks like he has been arranging competitions in Brawlstars with people on his Discord and somehow he has been awarding the best player or player with the highest score with Brawlstars Gems, which is the in game currency.

this shit is no accident

Something tells me he's trying to do the streamer angle and give away stuff without realizing that streamers or whatever don't pay for those things personally.

Also, people telling the kid to get a job, lmao. Um, there's a pandemic going on?

Fliesen · Jan 15, 2021

I personally don't think you should put your son 2.000 into debt.

he can learn his lesson some other way than by being indebted to his own father for ... years?

AerialAir · Jan 15, 2021

big_z said:
WTF. where do you live that a phone is required survival gear?

IKR. that's my perspective as well, though I understand that in some places, especially big cities, they kind of need it in case they get lost/in trouble.

Maturin · Jan 15, 2021

I knew what £2000 was at 13 that's for sure.

In this same situation - I have 13 year old twins - I'd sell all his gaming stuff to recoup some of the money. And then make a plan for how he was going to pay back the rest.

AerialAir · Jan 15, 2021

Fliesen said:
I personally don't think you should put your son 2.000 into debt.

he can learn his lesson some other way than by being indebted to his own father for ... years?

Yeah, that's no good. As some have said, I'd sell some of the stuff he doesn't really need, have him doing more chores around the house, take away his gaming devices, and password-protect his phone/PC so he can't game on that.

t26 · Jan 15, 2021

When I was 10 I felt bad my dad spent $100 on a gift as that was a lot of money.

GrimGrinningGuy · Jan 15, 2021

The 8-Bit Raider · Jan 15, 2021

Yeah, I learned this the hard way over 13 years ago with my oldest. My mother would allow my daughter to use her PC every so often to play a game called "Planet Hollywood" or something like that.

As a nice gesture, my mother purchased some kind of in game currency for my daughter to buy some in game items. After about a month, my mother reached out to me to help her find out why she had a number of charges on her credit card which totaled a little over two hundred dollars. After several calls on her behalf (My mother does not speak English), it was determined the charges originated from my daughters account on said website.

My daughter (being around 8 at the time), claimed innocence and stated that she thought all the items she claimed were free. Long story short, I paid my mother back (with interests) and deleted my daughters profile. She would never create an account in a similar website until she was 18.

Moral of the story, never let your kids use any kind of application or website with stored payment information in it. Not related but a personal lesson, stay clear of any game that offers in game currency of any kind.

Edit: I'm sorry you're going though this OP...it's an expensive lesson but it could always be worse.

JoeNut · Jan 15, 2021

Maturin said:
I knew what £2000 was at 13 that's for sure.

In this same situation - I have 13 year old twins - I'd sell all his gaming stuff to recoup some of the money. And then make a plan for how he was going to pay back the rest.

Agreed here, he needs to know he's done wrong so selling some stuff he likes(even if OP paid for it originally) is a good way to feel that.

astro · Jan 15, 2021

RolandOfGilead said:
Thinking it's a monumental amount of money isn't having an understanding though, at that age I'd imagine the kid has no idea how much his parents earn, what the bills are etc. that's when you start to have an understanding on money.

I think financial planning should be taught to children as young as possible to give them a firmer understanding. I know when I was 13(I remember this as my dad had bought a fishing boat just after I turned 13) I thought my parents were hugely wealthy, looking back now though I understand that they were doing very well but no where near the sort of money I imagined they had.

"monumental" is relative.

To a kid who has never held anywhere near that much, it will always be that regardless of how well you teach them perspective.

UltraMagnanimous · Jan 15, 2021

I would tell the boy I was very disappointed in him for spending the money and that he should never do it again.

Then perhaps a relatively short, 1 month?, punishment of some sorts.

Then leave it at that.

Stringing it out for a year or until the debt is paid is cruel and potentially emotional damaging to the kid and their relationship. IMO.

Akita One · Jan 15, 2021

People in this thread saying that he might not have known better even though he is 13...

People saying that doing chores in the home and for neighbors, as well as other favors, is child "labor"...

And you wonder how the Donald Trumps of the world are created. If he did this so easily then what else is going on? If I found a penny on the floor of my mom's house I would be afraid to spend it without asking.

Especially if he is buying stuff for friends?? I have a job and I'm not just spending $2K in a month even on someone I am dating...in fact, they would probably feel uncomfortable if I did. Hell, even on family!

Certain people here claim to be so liberal, but these threads and similar ones on Etcetera show that many people here don't have respect for people, their time or their money and property. (Like the "Oh my mom sold thousands of dollars of games I had in storage...I mean her basement which I am not paying for")

Funky_Monkey · Jan 15, 2021

lambdaupsilon said:
"no internet for a year"
y'all know that you kind of can't socialize in person right now, right? do you really think it's a good idea to make the only interpersonal contact a kid has be with parents and teachers for a year? clown shoes

This is a big issue my wife and I have right now. Not that we have had to deal with anything with this scale, but our typical consequences of banning technology for a period of time become significantly worse as it forces a significant level of isolation on them as it limits there ability to socialize with their friends.

Maturin · Jan 15, 2021

I agree that the current situation can lead to isolation so I would still leave them a method of communication.

But I also agree with the last few posters who believe a child of 13 should be learning very strongly about consequences of their actions. Stealing £2000 from a parent is a massive thing. And there has to be a big lesson learned here - for the sack of their future and people they deal with later in life.

Deleted member 11008 · Jan 15, 2021

Akita One said:
People saying that doing chores in the home and for neighbors, as well as other favors, is child "labor"...

Do chores is good, but outside that? You can't force to a 13 year old kid do that. I would agree if he was 17.

Some kind of punishment should be involved, like limit online gaming, sell old stuff he don't need, do more chores at home, exchange gaming time to other activities (reading, for example). If he has a allowance, cut it, but not remove it all.

I'm sorry for the situation OP, hope you can recover your money.

ElNino · Jan 15, 2021

asagami_ said:
Do chores is good, but outside that? You can't force to a 13 year old kid do that. I would agree if he was 17.

A parent can force their teenage child to do whatever they feel is best, it is literally in our job description. :-)

I would advise against sending them off to work per se, although I had my first job at that age, but having them do work in neighborhood (once safe to do so) sounds perfectly reasonable as a way to pay off the "debt".

dabri · Jan 15, 2021

1: grounded for a length of time you think is appropriate (including any non school related internet)
2: I would absolutely sell any electronics or valuables (luxury items) the kid has to help repay the debt. Anything related to the deed would be top of my list.
3: ban from discord and any of the games that were part of the deal.

PayPal linked to a checking account , you are out of luck with options.
you should definitely alter that PayPal account so that it isn't set up that way. Also wipe that phone so none of the login stuff is still attached.

Cordy · Jan 15, 2021

He's 13 yall. Remember what things you knew how to do at 13? He isn't dumb.

He's doing the streamer giveaway thing most streamers do. The problem is that he probably thinks it comes outta their pockets without realizing streamers make a living off their content. Like, image a 24 year old doing what he's doing.

I feel bad for the OP. If you live in the US then shit, we're getting those checks soon. At worst case that'll help but I really hope you can get a refund.

I need help - my son made purchases on discord through google play and PayPal

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