Hoping some video game journalists follow this up and we can get updates from Insomniac and this just isn't forgotten about. Have really enjoyed Insomniac games. Can't imagine Sony will be happy about this either.
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"I left Insomniac Games because of how they treat women" Ex-Employee speaks out
- Thread starter XaviConcept
- Start date
Saying they are a family and will continue to do what they are doing is implying everything is fine and nothing needs to be changed, so dismissing at the end the accusations of the victim no matter what their first tweet said.
For me, that's fucking pathetic of them, yeah.
I didn't read yours correctly, I thought you were asking about what happened. Sorry, I'll edit mine.
Well said.
I would like Jim Ryan to come out with a statement outlining what he expects from their studios in this regard and making it clear that Sony will be looking into the culture of all their studios. It would also be a good move to have a level of reporting and investigation of complaints out with the studios. Hearing many of these stories makes it clear a studios own HR department is often the problem, or at the very least does nothing to help.
I love seeing the development diaries and studio tours from MM, they seem like a studio that embraces a diverse workforce with many woman and minorities in senior roles, but looking around the rest of the industry it does seem to come across as a white boys club.
The innuendo's have been in the franchise since the very first game, with a weapon called RYNO (Rip Ya' a New One). Third game had a squat counter under stat (tea bagging, essentially, though it was not named that) for the online component.
It's sad to hear of such workplace abuse. What's concerning is there's a protective culture at Insomniac with more silenced victims. I never could have imagined that from Insomniac as a long time fan.
A more substantial response is needed.
I don't get it. You can still like the games. I've just finished Platinuming Spiderman. I'm still playing through it's final DLC and I don't plan on stopping. I still support this ex-employee and hope Insomniac does something more to change the culture of its space (Even though I doubt we'll ever actually see any of such changes).
Blindly defending these companies just because they made something you enjoyed is just mind boggling.
Lol yeah and as if it wasn't enough that it was known she wasn't single, her partner even worked at the same place! And the detailed and repeated sex talk. It's all incredibly creepy behaviour.
Folks, the accusations just came out like three hours ago. Expecting Insomniac to have a detailed response and a full plan of action for dealing with the situation within hours of the expose going live is a bit unrealistic, ESPECIALLY if there are any legal proceedings or investigations going on within the company as pertaining to the behavior in question that they might be prohibited by law from disclosing or discussing on a public forum.
Like I get it, y'all want results, and I agree with you, but you're expecting a whole lot out of a Twitter response. If you want to take issue with the second half of the tweet that's entirely fair, but I don't know what else you expected to come out of them the same day. Would you have preferred they just stay completely silent for a day or two until they had a whole essay worth of bullet points to hand out?
Like I get it, y'all want results, and I agree with you, but you're expecting a whole lot out of a Twitter response. If you want to take issue with the second half of the tweet that's entirely fair, but I don't know what else you expected to come out of them the same day. Would you have preferred they just stay completely silent for a day or two until they had a whole essay worth of bullet points to hand out?
Weak response. Sol's point was that they knew and didn't take appropriate steps to remove these people. Coming back and saying "yeh we knew about this" is like, that's the point. All of their talk is in the past tense, what's being done now to address the problems raised that have persisted?
Absolutely agree. And this is an industry-wide issue
There was a thread on here when the BLM protests were at their height, talking about the serious lack of black employees at these companies and the culture of mostly all-white male teams that died a quick death, why? becasue companies that people on here love were going to be uncomfortable. So people avoided it like the plague.
The same will happen here. Insomniac will release some new Spiderman or R&C footage and all will be forgotten.
People hoping for Sony to come in to 'clean house' are naive. This looks like a culture rot throughout the company. Wrists will be slapped and HR will setup workplace bullying training and consider it job done.
Until next time.
it's sad that this kinda toxic harassment has been happening in the gaming industry too and hurts to say that I'm not surprised. However, there needs to a rude awakening, a light must be shed on all this vile and creepy behavior, none who engage in this sort of behavior should walk unscathed. what makes it even more disappointing is the fact that it had to come from Insomniac.
I understand the company not wanting to say anything super concrete so soon in Twitter of all places.
But the self-congratulatory tone is not a good look at all.
Responding with the boilerplate "we're inclusive!!" line after being outed that they're absolutely not sure is something.
The problem is that when it comes to gaming there is just not enough desire to change. We have seen that if enough people push for something and are passionate about it, things can change for the better. BLM for example is different this time compared to before because of all the people coming out in support from all over the world, and things are starting to change even just a little bit. Gaming is a long long way off because most gamers just don't care.
Yeah. The second half of the tweet was a stupid, unforced error for sure. I just feel like people are expecting a bit much out of them as far as ACTION goes on the same day as the accusation went public.
Legal and privacy reasons....to me anyway....suggests theres another angle maybe?
I dont know maybe I've stopped jumping to conclusions over twitter allegations.
This was known by HR for some time, it's not an one shot situation according to the victim. No one expects actions on Twitter but no one expects that kind of response either.
Too many fanboys care more about their favorite games than standing up for the right thing. They see allegations like these as an inconvenience between them and their games instead of the gross situation it is
So many horrible stories from this industry lately. No matter if it's about crunch, racism or sexual harassment and abuse. Things need to change.
Also we as consumers need to remember and call out these things rather than forgetting about them once that great game releases.
EDIT: Ugh, that response from Insomniac is terrible. Outright terrible.
Also we as consumers need to remember and call out these things rather than forgetting about them once that great game releases.
EDIT: Ugh, that response from Insomniac is terrible. Outright terrible.
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Honestly though not having such a bad tweet in response is a very low bar? I'm not expecting them to take actions to remedy in 3 hrs, but I expect them not to claim to be inclusive and praise themselves as it and diverse when there's been former employees coming forward with allegations of sexual abuse and women being passed over for positions. Like I said that's a very low bar.
OP
OP
They are trying to say something along the lines of "we know what happened and were gonna fix it because we are not assholes" which is mostly in line with what Sol refers to when they say "theres so many amazing people at Insomniac" but it came out very fake corporate which is not very surprising cause they responded very quickly
Laws, societial change and actually regulating capitalistic interests . And even then, I can't find the tweet but there's a whole tweet thread of judges just handling rape cases poorly. The world in general treats women in a lot of cases in 2nd class citizens. So how do you fix this, you make actual reasonable change in your buisness and there are consequences, you put women, lgbtq folks people of color in positions of power. And you try to change laws and vote forofficials where ever you are, if you can that might take people who violate people like this to task. pass legislation. But the issue is , its bigger than games. Its just the world is shit
If an employer actually says they are a family then that is a huge warning sign for me. Heard to many bad stories about just that.
Damn IG.
Damn IG.
Did you mean we're? If so that's part of the issue since they reference nothing in the present tense. "We were aware of the allegations made in a former employee's tweets today and had taken numerous steps to address them" is all about past action, like they consider the matters resolved.
Awful awful awful.
For someone with more experience, aren't glassdoor reviews anonymous? Why don't more stories of sexual assault appear there? Can companies decide what appears in their profile? Can they track down who posted what? I would hope Glassdoor would be a good avenue for people that don't want to endanger themselves to bring forth the problems that happen inside these companies.
It pains me that these people are holding this things inside for so long and suffering from it. We need to be SO MUCH BETTER.
For someone with more experience, aren't glassdoor reviews anonymous? Why don't more stories of sexual assault appear there? Can companies decide what appears in their profile? Can they track down who posted what? I would hope Glassdoor would be a good avenue for people that don't want to endanger themselves to bring forth the problems that happen inside these companies.
It pains me that these people are holding this things inside for so long and suffering from it. We need to be SO MUCH BETTER.
Expecting a company with a Japanese corporate parent to clean house for sexual harassment is laughable. The pressure for women to stay quiet is even tougher outside the US and EU.
It's a hopeless feeling.
Sorry for the off-topic post and rambling post.
EDIT: don't want to clutter the thread or make it seem I'm inserting myself into this conversation.
My sisters all study in STEM (Mechanical engineering and Mathematics) fields. Knowing as a man how the culture at a workplace can be in STEM sometimes really worries me for them and this experience was just from the few internships and work experience I have. Let alone what I observe while studying. Knowing that these guys end up working at (high-tech) companies going up the ladder with great benefits just frustrates me, especially when I know that women whom I study with excel my own skills and intelligence, and that's not a rare thing to see.
I often listen to their experience of my sisters and while they're still students, of course, I have already heard much shit. It's not something where I can always just insert myself and say yeah I'll be there for you. I can put myself in their shoes, but I'm not in their shoes. I will never experience what they feel and they are left by themselves and I can only listen to the aftermath. Especially when your gender is always outnumbered.
I can say yeah they're strong, but you don't throw your self-worth under the bus just to continue working and get by. They don't have to be one-of-the guys and not be themselves. That's not living. It's either change that has to come from us men or having a union/HR that actually backs you up when you are a victim. More than often they get away with shit and you're left alone and neglected.
Speaking up about racism, harassment or anything is more than often punished. You're practically putting your neck on a guillotine ready to cut your head off by the public especially in industries of entertainment (gaming, movies, comics).
I'm a brown guy so there are things that get thrown in my face too, but when it comes to my sisters it gets amplified by 1000x. Moreover, the pressure for change within the industry I work is not something that can be demanded by society as it may not be something we all consume like movies, gaming, comics, or books for example. I know such things are not only at work.
I know no company is ever perfect and there are some great people out there, I know there are in my own field, but it's not common or the "normal". It's an issue that's faced daily in society and I'm in the EU.
I often listen to their experience of my sisters and while they're still students, of course, I have already heard much shit. It's not something where I can always just insert myself and say yeah I'll be there for you. I can put myself in their shoes, but I'm not in their shoes. I will never experience what they feel and they are left by themselves and I can only listen to the aftermath. Especially when your gender is always outnumbered.
I can say yeah they're strong, but you don't throw your self-worth under the bus just to continue working and get by. They don't have to be one-of-the guys and not be themselves. That's not living. It's either change that has to come from us men or having a union/HR that actually backs you up when you are a victim. More than often they get away with shit and you're left alone and neglected.
Speaking up about racism, harassment or anything is more than often punished. You're practically putting your neck on a guillotine ready to cut your head off by the public especially in industries of entertainment (gaming, movies, comics).
I'm a brown guy so there are things that get thrown in my face too, but when it comes to my sisters it gets amplified by 1000x. Moreover, the pressure for change within the industry I work is not something that can be demanded by society as it may not be something we all consume like movies, gaming, comics, or books for example. I know such things are not only at work.
I know no company is ever perfect and there are some great people out there, I know there are in my own field, but it's not common or the "normal". It's an issue that's faced daily in society and I'm in the EU.
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Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. If there's actual legal activity happening at the company surrounding this situation they may be barred by law from talking about it publicly until a resolution has been reached.
Yeah compared to the other mentioned topics and the people that are involved, gamers sure sound like that they care the least about change. (Excuse me if the sentence sounds strange, I am not a native speaker and at the moment I have no idea how to word it better. Sometimes I wish my native language would be the universal language. That would make participating in complex topics much easier.)
Do they have to forget about ethics, morality, empathy or just being human ?
Gonna have to pick that up and give it a read.
Brotopia - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
In ‘Brotopia,’ Silicon Valley Disrupts Everything but the Boys’ Club (Published 2018)
Emily Chang’s book looks at the way male cliques in the tech world use their newfound wealth and power to get whatever it is they had previously been denied — mainly stuff, status and sex.www.nytimes.com
No need to apoligize at all. Non native speaker myself, and often have trouble in expressing myself.
And you seem to do it far better than me.
worst part about all this is the fear that Sol mentioned on how she might get blacklisted within the industry because of this. that's utterly pathetic, it takes a heck tonne of bravery to do what she did and getting blacklisted for speaking out is just put simply unacceptable.
They don't have to. Only when they feel like they might lead to a lawsuit or lack of income. I can't tell you the number of times I've heard bad behavior justified because of "irreplaceable talent."
HR's job is 100% to protect the company.
They should protect the company by enforcing policies and holding people accountable for their actions, thus protecting the company from bad PR and lawsuits. However, a lot of the time they sweep things under the rug and hope they go away.
It's hard. My wife works in HR for a massive corporation and is only one or two female leadership position employees in a location with over 30 leadership position employees. And the other isn't part of their leadership team and is a much lower position. She doesn't let things fly, but this is because she has people higher up backing her up. Can you imagine being HR for a company that doesn't have your back?
This isn't to excuse any people in their positions, but the system is broken to the core. Tippy top leadership needs to be the ones who make changes and take stances, or else it's all for nothing. It goes all the way to the top, and it's really shitty that Insomniac has this problem and reflects poorly on their leadership. Same with Riot, and so on that has these problems.
They should protect the company by enforcing policies and holding people accountable for their actions, thus protecting the company from bad PR and lawsuits. However, a lot of the time they sweep things under the rug and hope they go away.
It's hard. My wife works in HR for a massive corporation and is only one or two female leadership position employees in a location with over 30 leadership position employees. And the other isn't part of their leadership team and is a much lower position. She doesn't let things fly, but this is because she has people higher up backing her up. Can you imagine being HR for a company that doesn't have your back?
This isn't to excuse any people in their positions, but the system is broken to the core. Tippy top leadership needs to be the ones who make changes and take stances, or else it's all for nothing. It goes all the way to the top, and it's really shitty that Insomniac has this problem and reflects poorly on their leadership. Same with Riot, and so on that has these problems.
HR's job at the end of the day is to manage employee compensation and protect the company from legal action. That's the long and short of it. They don't exist to be friendly or empathetic.
You are not wrong but given the fact that perhaps what was once perceived as outliers to many, esp. outsiders, can now be seen for what it is: a pervasive pattern of behaviour within an industry where the under-reporting and the threat of potential reprisals pulled the wool over our eyes. People can cancel outliers but systemic issues need to change. After all, more women and PoC are entering an industry that has a global reach comprising diverse audiences.
And yes, this thread maybe dead in 3 days and it could be due to news cycle overload but that does not mean that these issues should or will be forgotten- the reminder of 8chan + THQ Nordic, Warhorse Studios + Vavra and Quantic Dream + Racism have always shown up whenever there is a thread about products from these companies if not about the companies themselves are created For the longest time, topics pertaining to CDPR would invoke their terrible use of twitter that mingled with GamerGate topics until the operator of the handle was eventually fired. Later on Gender and trans gender representation became a huge part when discussing C2077 until the CDPR addressed the issue w/o much BS. Heck, I still give them shit for not using female V on box cover to this day.
Point is, it ought not to be forgotten and simultaneously people also have to realize that typing that we want things to change in a forum thread means very little (if anything at all), if it is not followed up by actions from a position of power. Ideally, this is where unions would alleviate the power discrepancy between the parties and hold those in power, by virtue of designation, accountable for their abuse of authority. But we do not live in an ideal world and so we see mass protests being another route of taking power back from the abusers.
I can only hope that these growing number of exposés gather enough people both out and especially inside the industry to force long term changes for the better.
wrestling is going through one right now and I wanna quit being a fan just because of how deep and widespread it is, it's fucking horrendous
Great post. Thank you for sharing yours and your sisters experiences, and that can't have been easy to do. I hope that you and other men like you continue to listen and try putting yourselves in the shoes of women, and continue to push against injustice in fields like these.
