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Tater

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,585
I'm so torn on Looper - I loved the world they built, the first 15 - 20 minutes were amazing. The bikes, the drugs in the eyes, I was super excited to see how it was all going to play out. Willis and Levitt are great actors, I wanted to like the movie, I just couldn't.

I just can't get past how bad the time travel is, it makes no sense. The scar on the arm, the amputation, it makes no sense. The body horror of limbs falling off had no impact since it just seemed arbitrary. If the dude went back in time again, could that magically fix it? Who knows?

It's a B- for me. I wouldn't call it a disaster, just disappointing given how much good stuff was in it.
 

Bio

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,370
Denver, Colorado
I am not even talking about inconsistent "time travel rules". I just can't understand why the mob would need loopers? I feel like I am missing something:

Why can't the mob send a guy back to 2044 not to start this looper business but to build a giant incinerator, and send people directly in that from the future? This way the mob doesn't have to deal with coked-out assassins and closing the loop stuff. Just have one dude who cleans up afterward and send their payment directly after. Mob has a time travel machine in an abandoned warehouse, I think they can spare the resources to spool that thing twice for each "hit". Besides they wouldn't be paying thousands of dollars worth of bars to the loopers.

Am I missing something or is this movie ass?

Why do people do this? Are these perceived 'plot holes' really that big an obstacle to enjoying a science-fiction movie? Real life doesn't always, or even often, make sense. Movies don't always have to make perfect sense to your specific worldview to enjoy, either.

Try to let yourself enjoy things, maybe.
 
Oct 25, 2017
23,208
The reason the movie comes out right and tells you not to think about the time travel is because the point of the movie is the story it's telling and not to make some rock solid logical time travel rules. It's just a plot device in a character driven movie. It doesn't actually matter
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,962
The reason the movie comes out right and tells you not to think about the time travel is because the point of the movie is the story it's telling and not to make some rock solid logical time travel rules. It's just a plot device in a character driven movie. It doesn't actually matter

Great if that works for you, but for me the characters and story are too intertwined with the time travel stuff to just dismiss it.

RJ made a lot of effort to come up with a unique time travel concept. Hell, the first 20 minutes are just a giant infodump on how the world works. At the start the whole hook of the film is "What if the mob used time-travel and hit-men from the past".
You can't just build your whole film on such a concept and expect people not to pay attention to it because you couldn't be bothered to make the storyline consistent.
 
Oct 25, 2017
23,208
Great if that works for you, but for me the characters and story are too intertwined with the time travel stuff to just dismiss it.

RJ made a lot of effort to come up with a unique time travel concept. Hell, the first 20 minutes are just a giant infodump on how the world works. At the start the whole hook of the film is "What if the mob used time-travel and hit-men from the past".
You can't just build your whole film on such a concept and expect people not to pay attention to it because you couldn't be bothered to make the storyline consistent.

You can absolutely dismiss it because the story isn't about that. It's a story about a character going from a person who is trying to kill his actual self so he can live out the rest of his life until his number gets pulled to a character that will sacrifice himself for others.
 

Pyramid Head

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,838
I hated it when I saw it at the cinema. I was originally pretty hyped for it when I heard the guy behind Primer was involved, because that movie plays with the idea of time travel pretty smart ways. But Looper turned out to be the opposite. Stupid from start to finish.
'You can't get away with murdering people in the future!' But you show that exact thing taking place and it didn't seem to be much of an issue!
If you have to literally request that the audience pay no attention to the story you are telling, then maybe you should either write a better story, or save up your 'cool' but nonsensical set pieces like a person gradually losing his limbs one by one for a dark edgy music video or something where it doesn't matter that it doesn't make sense.
 

Alice

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
5,867
THIS, 10000%.

As someone who often writes highly-flawed characters who often do the right thing for the wrong reasons and through less-than-optimal methods, it's extremely discouraging to see people throw invective at entire storylines just because the characters' actions do not line up with what they personally expected of them, or what they would have done in their shoes. The sense of sheer entitlement is unreal, and it makes me glad I just write as a side hobby.

Thank. You. It drives me up a wall whenever I see someone trying to call a well written, well rounded flawed character bad, just because they don't robotically fulfill their expectations. It's so maddening and it feels like movie "criticism" is full of that junk now.
 

kurahador

Member
Oct 28, 2017
17,536
It's a decent movie if you don't think about its logic. Rian Johnson is a troll like that.
THIS, 10000%.

As someone who often writes highly-flawed characters who often do the right thing for the wrong reasons and through less-than-optimal methods, it's extremely discouraging to see people throw invective at entire storylines just because the characters' actions do not line up with what they personally expected of them, or what they would have done in their shoes. The sense of sheer entitlement is unreal, and it makes me glad I just write as a side hobby.
By that logic, Game Of Throne season 8 must be good then.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,635
The rules of time travel in the film were super dumb. Why would you need to catch the old looper if you can just kill the younger one? It's not some separate time lines shit since anything you do to the younger one clearly affects the older one. Once it was clear that there wasn't any point thinking too hard about it I was able to enjoy it.

OP do yourself a favor and go watch Time Crimes. The title says it all but its one of the most well done time travel films I've seen in a long time and makes stuff like Looper look absolutely convoluted and sloppy. Wonderful film that does so much with so little. I even prefer it to the fan favorites like Primer. Just an all around great film and even the way the time travel works is really clever in a very understated manner.

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The way it handled time travel was great but the characters behaved so stupidly that it really spoiled the film for me.
 
May 7, 2020
170
User Banned (Permanent): Misogyny; Account in Junior Phase
I feel bad for people that can't suspend disbelief (relatively) easily. I rarely get taken out of films because of plot holes etc.

The MCU films are a bit of an exception though, I'll buy the talking raccoon, faster than light travel and magic gems but why Iron Man would settle for Chris Martin's sloppy seconds never made any sense to me.
 

VeryHighlander

The Fallen
May 9, 2018
6,376
Movie had a dope premise, but JGL slowly morphing into Willis was never even close to believable and his prosthetics looked bad. The rainmaker storyline is probably one of the shittiest checkov guns ever written. The only redeemable quality of this movie is its premise and Emily Blunt. Rest of it is straight up SyFy network garbage.
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,560
Looper was my favorite movie the year it released.

Time logistics just hits different depending on how it's presented and the world around so for this and say the Happy Death Day movies, they're undeniably messy, but I'm along for the ride. Avengers Endgame which kept lecturing you about it's logistics and shit talked other time travel movies in the process I was more critical of.

But I'll admit, I don't think the line "don't worry about it" gives you an automatic out if logistics matter to your movie. It's a fair criticism. Everyone has their individuals limits for that kind of stuff.
 

Penny Royal

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,158
QLD, Australia
THIS, 10000%.

As someone who often writes highly-flawed characters who often do the right thing for the wrong reasons and through less-than-optimal methods, it's extremely discouraging to see people throw invective at entire storylines just because the characters' actions do not line up with what they personally expected of them, or what they would have done in their shoes. The sense of sheer entitlement is unreal, and it makes me glad I just write as a side hobby.

Because we're consumers of product, rather than observers of art, and if that product doesn't meet our what we imagine the product to be by e.g., doing something we don't expect/like, we may reject the product.

I preferred Primer to Looper, but it's a decent enough film.
 

The Nightsky

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,543
Why can't the mob send a guy back to 2044 not to start this looper business but to build a giant incinerator, and send people directly in that from the future?
This sounds really dumb and like a really bad movie. Actual premise of Looper is much more interesting (although I personally just think the movie is good, not a masterpiece or anything).
 

Kernel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,865
No wonder CinemaSins is a thing.

People looking for every little gotcha in a movie must be real fun at parties.
 
May 7, 2020
170
No wonder CinemaSins is a thing.

People looking for every little gotcha in a movie must be real fun at parties.
Cynical movie reviews/teardown channels are the single worst thing about YT these days, can't fucking stand them. You watch one scifi trailer and the algorithm suggest about 20 vids about how The Last Jedi is a cinematic failure.
 

Protome

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,677
I thought it was pretty fun, but dragged a bit by the end.
I don't think "why didn't they build an incinerator or something" is that big a deal really. I haven't watched it in a while but don't they change where people are sent back to, to make it harder to track? Like not every dude they send back in time shows up in that field that Bruce Willis did. You can't move an incinerator around.

I already know what his fans think of Knives Out. I'm curious about the opinions of those who don't feel strongly about him either way.
I wouldn't really classify myself as a Rian Johnson "fan", like I said about I liked Looper but felt it dragged at points, TLJ is probably my favourite of the sequel trilogy but the humour sucks ass and the casino planet stuff was a complete miss for me.

Knives Out was the best movie I saw last year (although admittedly I didn't see Parasite, which everyone seems to love more.)
 

Deleted member 2779

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,045
Love Rian Johnson but this is one of the few movies I stopped watching midway because I got bored. I'm rarely as uninvested in a protagonist as I was with JGL's character.
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,312
The sci-fi stuff didn't hold up on initial viewing. And the movie itself was pretty boring, so it failed to distract from how stupid it was. Probably the worst sci-fi film from the decade for me.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,962
You can absolutely dismiss it because the story isn't about that. It's a story about a character going from a person who is trying to kill his actual self so he can live out the rest of his life until his number gets pulled to a character that will sacrifice himself for others.

Sure, that's the heart of the story. I'm not saying it's not about that. There's great stuff in the movie, that's why wish I could like it. But I can't just separate it from the stuff that bothers me, because the flaws are right there in that central story.

The conversation between Bruce and JGL is fantastic, and the way his younger self gradually realizes the callousness of the person he'll become, and through that his own callousness, and starts to question his actions... that's all great.
It's a thought-provoking story. Which means I want to think about it. Which unfortunately in this case means that the whole thing falls apart when I do.

The ending is supposed to be poignant, when JGL's character chooses to sacrifice himself to break the loop his own selfish behaviour created. But wait... it didn't.
Bruce's character is stuck in a closed loop (The Rainmaker's goons kill his wife -> he goes back in time to kill kid rainmaker -> kills kid's mom -> kid becomes rainmaker --> the Rainmaker's goons kill his wife ). But there's no way for JGL's character to enter that loop, because the rainmaker doesn't exist outside of it. Without the rainmaker closing all loops he has no reason to go back in time and set the events in motion that created the rainmaker.

So maybe the Rainmaker already existed in the original timeline, regardless of the protagonist's actions? But that would mean that the kid becomes the rainmaker anyway, and the sacrifice at the end was for nothing.

The story could work with just a few tweaks. What's missing is the creation of the loop. Insert a timeline withouth the rainmaker, where Bruce's character tries to run away from his past self killing him (maybe because his wife gave him a new will to live), escapes to the farm, (accidentally?) shoots Emily Blunt's character, the orphaned kid becomes the rainmaker, creating the loop shown in the film. Boom, suddenly it works a lot better.

That's what bothers me. The story would be better with just a few changes, if RJ actually tried to figure out the logic instead of handwaving it away with a stupid "don't pay attention to the time travel, nerds" joke
As it is the sacrifice at the end that's supposed to be the great emotional catharsis of the story just fell flat for me.
 

Yonafunu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,261
The movie is fine, all things considered, but it feels like Rian Johnson tried to make two different movies at the same time. That said, I've only seen it once a while ago, so it might hold up better on rewatch.
 

Camwi

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,375
I hate to break it to you guys, but time travel isn't real and doesn't actually have hard rules that need to be followed.

Whatever rules it is given are for the sole purpose of driving the story.

So who gives a shit?
Thank you.

This is as bad as the people who whine about fast zombies in films.
 

P-MAC

Member
Nov 15, 2017
4,455
It's fun entertainment, it's the last film where you should be wondering about what's plausible and what isn't
 

Biske

Member
Nov 11, 2017
8,255
The reason the movie comes out right and tells you not to think about the time travel is because the point of the movie is the story it's telling and not to make some rock solid logical time travel rules. It's just a plot device in a character driven movie. It doesn't actually matter

Yup. Solid movie, will always stop and watch it when its on. Just flat out enjoyable.
 

Betty

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,604
Movie is incredible, Bruce Willis actually acting like he cares was so refreshing.
 

TheLastYoshi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
877
Looper is one of the best sci-fi movies of the last 10 years, if you didn't buy the premise, which I don't think is that big of a leap for time-travel, then there is a world of great movies that are weirder and wilder than Looper that you are missing out.
 

kiguel182

Member
Oct 31, 2017
9,440
I wasn't a fan.

First, I couldn't get over the dumb makeup. I know how Bruce Willis looked like when he was 30 years old, it wasn't like that. It wasn't needed and distracted me the entire time.

Second, the farm stuff was just boring as hell. Just not a fan.