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SofNascimento

cursed
Member
Oct 28, 2017
21,321
São Paulo - Brazil
Do I go straight for the objective, or do I explore the entire map?

Yes, I know, it's an awful existential problem. But I'm trying to manage.

Needlessly as it may be, let me explore the problem further: I believe both Dishonored games can be called an Immersive sim, with a focus on stealth. Which means most levels are open enough to give the player many avenues of approach, but with clear objectives that in their most simplified involve going from one place to the other, dealing with the enemies along the way, who can be killed, knocked out or simply ignored.

The problem is: if we got direct for the objectives, which would be the most "in character" thing to do, we would miss out a lot of content. Which can be in form of lore pieces, hidden objectives, characters or other. And I don't want that, I want to explore the game fully. So situations like this will come up: in the first level of Dishonored 2 I was being hunted down by the city guard and needed to escape asap (or am I confusing it with the fire game?), but when I got just 5 meters from freedom, I turned back and fought a bunch of guards that I had successfully avoided because I wanted to see what was inside a particular house (which turned out to be a meaningful NPC).

Deus Ex: Human Revolution positeively punishes you for playing the game as a game. I believe many here might be aware that in the first mission if you take too long exploring the hostages will be killed. Alien Isolation is another game that I could mention. In short, I feel like in these games with have sort of two pulls: one that asks you to explore eveything, while other that says to you the most sensible thing is to complete the mission. Searching for ID Tags with the Alien was after you wasn't a smart decision for Ripley!

This feels very different in a game like System Shock 2 or Prey which I felt exploration made much more sense. And this has nothing to do with quality, but is simply a result of the different types of immersive sim they are.

Surely I'm not alone is this.
 

Deleted member 17210

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,569
I don't worry about doing everything as I like replaying those kind of games and taking different paths each time (if I can remember them).
 

SJRB

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
4,861
Exploring is extremely rewarding; go for it.

And it absolutely is a stealth game, if you want it to be. Sneaking around in this game feels super rewarding.
 

NediarPT88

Member
Oct 29, 2017
15,125
I love exploration in Dishonored games so I never go to the objective first. Also while exploring you can find new ways (usually non-lethal) to deal with your target.

It always felt very rewarding and the level design is awesome.
 

Deleted member 46948

Account closed at user request
Banned
Aug 22, 2018
8,852
If you don't explore everything, you'll miss a lot of world- and story lore (and also miss a lot of upgrades, in more gamey terms).
 

FelipeMGM

#Skate4
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
3,012
I think it depends on the specific moment of the game and what makes sense in that context. Like you mentioned, in the beginning of the game, I didnt really explore because I felt this urgency to flee, but in a bunch of other missions I explored a whole lot before even really starting the main objective, because it made sense for me.

Either way you'll have a great time, its built to be fun and satisfying whatever approach you take
 

zoltek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,917
OP I am actually exactly like you when it comes to these types of games. It's a "you" problem though, not a fault in game design. I suppose one way to tackle the problem is to play the way you think the game is guiding you the first time then replay the mission to explore. Not ideal, but again, I feel the same angst you do about this stuff and haven't found a better solution.
 

skeezx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,164
hehe yeah i got this recently playing RE7 (in VR, so "immersion" goes doubly). plenty of situations i need to get the hell out of dodge but i know i could just stroll around on my leisure and explore with no real consequence. kind of bizarre, like a lucid dream where you don't really care you're in public in your underwear or something
 

Potterson

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,415
For me it was great cause levels aren't THAT big after playing some open world games, heh. Prey felt bigger cause it's all interconnected. I'd say explore, take your time. You can explore everything & be stealthy.
 

oni-link

tag reference no one gets
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,032
UK
You could turn the waypoints off, then you're forced to explore. It's not like levels have a point of no return
 
OP
OP
SofNascimento

SofNascimento

cursed
Member
Oct 28, 2017
21,321
São Paulo - Brazil
Exploring is extremely rewarding; go for it.

And it absolutely is a stealth game, if you want it to be. Sneaking around in this game feels super rewarding.

But that's the "problem".

Both are very rewarding ways to the play the game, but I feel they are incompatible. You can try to be stealth while exploring, of course, that's what I do, but you'll take way more risks and will, more likely than not, have to incapacitate some guards, leathally or not.

With the first Dishonored I want for full exploration mode in the first playthorugh and my second was pure stealth (non lethal/no powers/never detected). And I enjoy both playthroughs immensely. I'm thinking of doing the same for the second game but I'm having doubts.
 

Nessus

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,919
I always explore as much as I safely can in immersive sims. I love the environmental storytelling, the diaries or emails, it makes these worlds all the more believable. One of my favourite sensations in all of gaming.
 

Deleted member 28461

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 31, 2017
4,830
I feel you. After the boat, I tried to take the stealth route for that mission. By the time I finished the level, almost every single guard was dead. I didn't want to murder everyone, but I explored every inch of the map and would get spotted regularly. I eventually changed my goal from being sneaky to just being a sneaky murderer. I knew that most of the enemies in my path would spot me eventually, so I started killing them before they had the chance. If you buy the skill that makes enemies turn to ash when you kill them, it makes it way easier.

I'm sure the game is more fun to play without killing people, but I don't have the patience to do all that. Too much to play, not enough time.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,348
That's my problem with these games as well. There is hidden stuff to find, but most of the time it's just another way to get ot the objective.
 

Mudo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,115
Tennessee
OP I understand your dilemma. I loooove these immersive sims and played D2 earlier this year. After getting through the first level and becoming more comfortable with the gameplay systems,
I spent a lot of time scouting levels for lore and loot and it was GLORIOUS!

my advice is to do all you can as the levels are not timed and there Is a ton to discover off the beaten
 

Zukuu

Member
Oct 30, 2017
6,809
I hate Deus Ex and this for punishing you if you don't go stealthy.

You have all that cool power and can literally never use it. It's utterly dumb game design imo.
 

Jakke_Koala

Member
Sep 28, 2018
1,173
First playthrough is mostly main story for me. Second playhtrough is for 100%
I do start my first playthrough trying to 100%, but after a few hours i'm too invested in the main story.

Dishonored 2 is definetly worth multiple playthroughs, so i wouldn't sweat it
 

Zealuu

Member
Feb 13, 2018
1,185
You should absolutely consider it a stealth game, it's much better like that.

But more importantly, the Dishonored games actively invite exploration, they don't toy with your expectations and well-worn mechanical conventions the way DXHR did. Ultimately you want to be more powerful to complete your overarching objective, and for that you need bone charms and talismans. Which you find by exploring and doing side tasks.
 

Rat King

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,021
Portugal
I'm just happy people are still playing Dishonored, Arkane deserves it.

I explore every corner of the map, awesome lore, upgrades, new quests, npcs and so on. It's worthy.
 

TheBaldwin

Member
Feb 25, 2018
8,285
Its stealth exploration

Theres so many great little side quests and environmental story telling that really makes these small play areas feel lived in. Grab every bone charm and treasure you can find and do it as stealthily as possible. Going from rooftop to rooftop.
 

RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,059
You should explore.

The Dishonored games are trying to look like the successors to Thief, but really they're designed much more closely to Deus Ex 1. It's almost a wide-linear RPG really. There are NPCs to meet and side objectives with secrets to find. It's just that there are big portions of each map where you need to be stealthy.

You don't really need to explore the first level that much though.

And...
If you haven't gotten there yet, there's a whole level you can actually skip by solving a puzzle.
 

Timeaisis

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,139
Austin, TX
Once I started playing Dishonored 2 as an "off and on" stealth game it quickly became one of my favorite games of all time. Worry about stealth up until you get caught, and then worry about surviving.
 
OP
OP
SofNascimento

SofNascimento

cursed
Member
Oct 28, 2017
21,321
São Paulo - Brazil
Once I started playing Dishonored 2 as an "off and on" stealth game it quickly became one of my favorite games of all time. Worry about stealth up until you get caught, and then worry about surviving.

This is more or less my approach. I believe if we look back to early 2010s it was when stealth games realize they can have great combat as well. We also had Far Cry 3 in 2012 (even though it's more a FPS with stealth elements) and in 2013 we got Blacklist, which is one of my favorite games ever.

Of course, No One Lives Forever 2 was doing that in 2002, but that games is beyond special.
 
Aug 25, 2019
380
Well after reading this thread, looks like I should not just run for the boat in first open ended area. I'll go back and redo it with full exploration in mind!