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Fj0823

Legendary Duelist
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,653
Costa Rica
CheeryAliveGodwit-size_restricted.gif


Maaaaaaan I remember loving this game and thinking it was a great entry in the Bioshock franchise...But this thing does NOT hold up on replay without the hype.

Gameplay.

The gameplay was so brain dead, aim at target and unload the clip until they're dead, I had to crank difficulty to hard to get a slightest hint of challenge, mostly because the enemies become bullet sponges.

Vigors are basically glorified grenades or something to make enemies stay still while you aim and unload your seemingly infinite ammo on the mobs, at no points do vigors become a weapon like Plasmids were in the first games, they're just there to make shooty shooty bang bang easier.

The sky rails suck. They bring absolutely nothing.

And the "Big Daddy" enemies in this game are just awful, Motorized patriots are just slow moving bullet sponges while the 3 "Handyman" you ever get to fight just immediately close any gap you try to put between them and you. while also no selling each of your shots.

I missed laying tripwires, electrifying water, and the overall persistence test that was facing a Big Daddy with little ammo.

I will say that the guns feel good tho.

Story

"Neo Nazis and BLM, both sides are equally as bad, because when the oppressed fight they become a bunch of violent irrational animals " -> Ken Levine, probably.

The city of Columbia is beautiful and a perfect design of how I imagine MAGA idiots think America should look like, but the story just does lip service to that setting and instead goes all in into a multiverse plot that completely makes no sense. Multiverse stuff happens because of course it does, characters jump in and out of timelines for no reason and these Lutece guys just jump in, say cryptic shit and bail.

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Like I get it Elizabeth is a temporal anomaly that creates infinite possibilities, yet all those possibilities end by altering exactly one timeline...But shouldn't that simply create even more timelines?

This is the dumbest most confusing story I've played AND I UNDERSTAND THE PLOT OF KINGDOM HEARTS FOR FUCK'S SAKE. 7 years ago I thought I understood, but I just nodded along. This time I actually engaged with what the narrative gave me and all I got was a jumbled mess.

With that awful AWFUL messaging aside, I really enjoyed Booker and Elizabeth as characters again, they have this great "reluctant allies that grow into actual friends" plot that I am a sucker for. Elizabeth was my absolute favorite character
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Until Booker literally flips a switch that turns her cosmic awareness on and she decides she's now a godlike figure that is above all, starts spouting cryptic shit, guilt trips booker through a series of mindfucks and then has the nerve to ask him "Is this what you want?" fully knowing what's going to happen and that she set the stage for it to happen....Oh god why....she was so cool and likeable.

I gave this game a 9/10 when it came out...Now I feel it's a 6.5/10 at best.

Now onto the actual new stuff I played

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Burial at sea addresses pretty much every single complaint I had with the gameplay it introduces stealthy elements, limited ammo, laying traps and hiding is an actual viable strategy...It felt great!

But my god...The plot...JFC.

So Cosmic Awareness Asshole Elizabeth decides that no Comstock ever gets to live so despite the fact that she KNOWS this Comstock's entire life and BY HER OWN ADMISSION, knows this specific Comstock would be a decent guy if left alone....She decides to be blinded by revenge and go to the Bioshock 1 reality, just to kill the guy, even if it means BURNING A LITTLE GIRL ALIVE.

The character assassination of Elizabeth at this point is hilarious. I don't know if the fact that we live in a post "The Last Of Us Part II" world where I know how a game can correctly portray a character slowly go deeper and deeper doing the most awful irrational shit for the sake of revenge. But this game's did not land at all. Elizabeth simply goes to lengths that feel too twisted for her just because she hates Comstock, but none of it feels earned, hell looking at Commstock try his damndest to save the Little Sister actually made me hate Elizabeth for backstabbing him for things he doesn't even remember.

Then we get on part 2....and ooooooh boy now it's time to punish Elizabeth for being a dick! Let's depower her, make her go crazy, have a man slowly torture her, use her and then violently kill her. While she learns...nothing really? Turns out subjecting herself to all that was the right thing to do to atone for being an asshole and save the one girl she tried to cook alive, but she cares for her now after all those great moment they spent together....like
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It all just felt so mean spirited towards their first major female character...It's infuriating.

Then, they try to save face from their both sides shit by making it so the black leader of the Vox Populi didn't actually want to kill a child for no reason...no no, she was following orders from a couple of time travelling white dudes that promised her this would make things better for her people because they're like from the future, she was a self sacrificing hero you see!
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And now let's talk about the lore. I LOVED the idea of Suchong and Fink collaborating via interdimensional communication to get their respectives cities all the crazy Sci-Fi shit they got. it was clever and the audio logs where really cool...even if it did create some issues (Plasmids where injectables, but then they turned them into soft drinks...But by Bioshock 1 all the drinkable ones stop existing and only needles remain)

But then they go way too far with it. I lost it at fucking Andrew Ryan talking about parallel worlds which is exactly the moment I checked out. There is no reason for this characters to be talking about this shit. It just diminishes them and their original goals and world.

And then they decide that everything Elizabeth, their first female character suffers in this game is to set up the stage for Jack to actually do the job she was trying to do this whole time...fucking WOW.

Not only does this complicates and devalues Bioshock 1's plot a lot, by making it so that Atlas received help from a dimension hopping time travelling lady to get all the info on how to do the "Would you kindly stuff" it also manages to be sexist AF.

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Thank you for reading my rant.

I don't want ANYONE involved with this shit to touch BS4.
 
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SunBroDave

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,154
I said it back at release and I'll say it again now: Burial at Sea retroactively ruins anything good that was going on with both Bioshock 1's and Bioshock Infinite's stories. It's almost impressive just how much it ruins everything.
 

Kyari

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,848
Burial At Sea is just pointlessly miserable and I don't understand why they decided to do that to the story at all. Its such a shitty way to wrap that up and I'd rather they had just left it open ended after Infinite instead of scrambling to try and make some more DLC to cash in on.
 

cabelhigh

Member
Nov 2, 2017
1,723
yea, I thought it then and I think it now: BSI is a 5/10 game at best. Its super clear that the ambition of the original vision - Bioshock gameplay, but in the sky - was just way way too much for the OG consoles. What they did salvage is mediocre in every respect (except art direction, maybe) and is an incredible disappointment considering the original games
 

Jegriva

Banned
Sep 23, 2019
5,519
Yeah, Ken Levine lost his marbles with Infinite. Too bad, because the visuals are so good.

Also, the game took 6 years to make.
 

Strangiato

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,420
Go watch the Matthewmatosis critique to really see the game get the absolute drubbing it deserves. He says it all better than anyone else ever could and the last 2 minutes of the video are brilliant. But yeah, the game is terrible.

youtu.be

Bioshock Infinite Critique

An in-depth critique of Bioshock Infinite, this video will contain spoilers for the entire game.
 
Jan 11, 2018
9,653
Bioshock Infinite was one of the biggest disappointments I've ever suffered in gaming. It's weird how well the game reviewed. Like, it definitely was an interesting game and had a lot of good things going for it... But man did they fail on a lot of the execution of it (The game barely even resembled the amazing original demos, the concept of the heavy hitters, etc). I liked the story of BI well enough, but yeah, Burial at Sea completely ruined it and I was like WTF at nearly every turn. I really, REALLY hope the new Bioshock ignores everything Levine did with the story.
 

Serpens007

Well, Tosca isn't for everyone
Moderator
Oct 31, 2017
8,128
Chile
Yeah I also loved and defended the game to death when it released (well I still do like it) but it's just not possible to hold its ground. Game has way too many issues from every perspective. I like the cosmic shit though
 

Bedameister

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,944
Germany
Replayed it recently and it's still one of my favorite games of all times. And BaS2 is still peak Bioshock for me, I just love it.
 

cakely

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,149
Chicago
Funny. I just finished the main campaign last week after starting it ... seven years ago.

I completely agree with you about the gameplay, it wasn't great: toss your "grenades" and then empty your clip into the bad guys. It was also needlessly gory and violent.

But, I did really enjoy the ending, and the story. It turned out to be a time-travel / alternate universe story that reminded me of Netflix's "Dark" in a good way.

Judging by this thread I shouldn't bother with the expansions. :)
 
OP
OP
Fj0823

Fj0823

Legendary Duelist
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,653
Costa Rica
Funny. I just finished the main campaign last week after starting it ... seven years ago.

I completely agree with you about the gameplay, it wasn't great: toss your "grenades" and then empty your clip into the bad guys. It was also needlessly gory and violent.

But, I did really enjoy the ending, and the story. It turned out to be a time-travel / alternate universe story that reminded me of Netflix's "Dark" in a good way.

Judging by this thread I shouldn't bother with the expansions. :)

I don't mind the ending, I like it.

I dislike how Elizabeth just suddenly does a 180 to achieve it

Then the expansions turn her more and more into a fucking asshole
 

Devil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,660
Yeah, I feel you. Even back then when I was still blinded a little by Irrational fandom (heh) due to Bioshock 1 I was already getting that empty feeling of it not living up to my expectations.

I intentionally never replayed it. I'm pretty sure I'd gain nothing from it.
 

Tawpgun

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,861
I remember really liking infinites gameplay. It felt super fast paced. Almost doom esque in the way where "cover = go fast"
 

Gamer @ Heart

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,575
Story wise, I know WHY they made burial at sea. The assets and tools were a there, it made sense thematically with the fucking ridiculous wall of story they threw at us in the final hours. But still, I couldn't shake the feeling that the story of BaS didn't feel earned. It felt like an ending to something much bigger than it was and Not the second entry in the Man.City.Lighthouse series. Like, they just had to go super bittersweet twice in a row.

(2 is my favorite but story wise it doesn't fit here)

Replaying infinite after a drill and plasmid playthrough of 2 that was so fun is a huge disappointment. Going from a tank to constantly hiding behind cover and waiting for a shield Regen was not nearly as fun
 
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cabelhigh

Member
Nov 2, 2017
1,723
Bioshock Infinite was one of the biggest disappointments I've ever suffered in gaming. It's weird how well the game reviewed.

One of the weirdest things was when Gamespot reviewed it at launch and gave it a 9...and then rereviewed it a few months later and gave it like a 4? I dont think ive ever seen that happen again for a single player game.
 
Jan 11, 2018
9,653
Funny. I just finished the main campaign last week after starting it ... seven years ago.

I completely agree with you about the gameplay, it wasn't great: toss your "grenades" and then empty your clip into the bad guys. It was also needlessly gory and violent.

But, I did really enjoy the ending, and the story. It turned out to be a time-travel / alternate universe story that reminded me of Netflix's "Dark" in a good way.

Judging by this thread I shouldn't bother with the expansions. :)

Eh, they're worth playing through still I think if you're invested in the universe. At the very least it's a fun ride, even if it's ridiculously dumb.
 

HockeyBird

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,587
Story wise, I know WHY they made burial at sea. The assets and tools were a there, it made sense thematically with the fucking ridiculous wall of story they threw at us in the final hours. But still, I couldn't shake the feeling that the story of Bass didn't feel earned. It felt like an ending to something much bigger Ethan it was and Not the second entry in the Man.City.Lighthouse series. Like, they just had to go super bittersweet twice in a row.

(2 is my favorite but story wise it doesn't fit here)

Replaying infinite after a drill and plasmid playthrough of 2 that was so fun is a huge disappointment. Going from a tank to constantly hiding behind cover and waiting for a shield Regen was not nearly as fun

I've never played Burial at Sea but I didn't know it was canon until a few years ago. I always just assumed it was its own side thing. Just re-imagining some of the characters in Infinite and playing them in Rapture. I didn't think it would actually tie into the main game.
 

CorpseLight

Member
Nov 3, 2018
7,666
I feel as if Bioshock really needs just a "walking simulator" type of game entry. As the worlds they build are absolutely immersive and interesting, but the gameplay sort of gets in the way.
 

Fonst

Member
Nov 16, 2017
7,064
I enjoyed the gameplay when it came out but always thought the story was awful. "oh we can't move this so we will just time shift it and problem solved." The game was the pinnacle of lazy writing.

I didn't care much about BioShock either but at least they didn't do as many unbelievable things.
 

ProtomanNeo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,190
Started it years ago on the 360 and was not enjoying it. My 360 subsequently RROD'd and didn't think of it. A couple months ago I bought it digitally on the PS4 and played through at as part of quarantine -athon. I didn't hate it as much as I did way back when but I found it pretty forgettable.
 

Radd Redd

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,004
I could kind of give a pass Bioshock Infinite but BaS was so bad it almost made me retroactively hate Bioshock Infinite. It's sooo bad.

If you've never played the dlc of Infinite, just go as far as seeing Sander Cohen in his weird area and just stop. It goes downhill fast from there.
 

Dr. Ludwig

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,521
I disagree with one thing in your OP. Sky rails bring somewhat of an interesting movement options to this bland shooter. They do bring excitement and visual flair to Infinite's mediocre combat.

Infinite is one of those game where the more that I think about it, the much fucking worse my impression of it goes. How its awful writing did not get far more scrutiny on release is mind-blowing.
 

Cass_Se

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,124
Usually when people hate on a sequel/prequel I am in the camp that you can just ignore such work, the original is still there. But Burial at Sea is such an idiotic tale that it does indeed manage to retroactively ruin the plot of Infinite, it's that bad, partially because it is that intent on ruining whatever good was there in the original game and reducing Infinite's plot to nothing more but a stepping stone to original Bioshock, which was so so so completely unnecessary.
 

Hugare

Banned
Aug 31, 2018
1,853
Welp, I loved them both

Infinite's gameplays was reaaally bad, and thus replaying it feels like a chore

But the art, worldbuilding, characters and soundtrack were pretty incredible, specially for the time

Sometimes I want to replay it just to be in Columbia once more

Burial at Sea was cool. Like, dont think it as canon, but as something else. Embrace the nonsense and enjoy it for what it is.

I loved seeing Rapture with better tech. Loved the expanded lore and etc.

And there are some really heartfelt moments in there.

The game and the expansions werent flawless or anything, but they still managed to be something really unique in the industry

I miss Ken Levine and his games
 

TheClaw7667

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,704
I've been replaying all the Bioshock games for the last month and last week after finishing Bioshock 2 I moved onto Infinite. I agree completely OP, Infinite is so boring without the hype and knowing what to expect. Coming directly from the others makes the differences all the more apparent. the first 2 have a gameplay loop where I can just lose myself to whereas Infinite just feels like any other linear shooter I've played, expect with exceptional art direction. The enemies in Infinite just run at Booker without any care for their lives. Even the Splicers in the first 2 run away to heal or if they're on fire will run to water to put it out. I ended up dropping my replay about 3 hours into it as I was just bored which I never felt while replaying the other games.

While replaying Infinite I kept wondering if this was the game Irrational set out to make. Did they want to move even more away from System Shock 2/Bioshock and make a more linear shooter without any of the immersive sim systems that those games had or did the scope just get away from them and eventually the game had to ship and it was just easier to turn what they had into a linear shooter with encounters just being waves of enemies?

I wish we were able to read more about game development than we currently do. I still remember reading Soren Johnson's thoughts on Spore's development and finding it fascinating what a designer who worked on the game thought of its development and the troubles they were encountering. There are so many games where I would love to read about what happened during development (the latest being BFV, my god what the hell was happening inside DICE before and after release) that will probably never come to light.
 

zoabs

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
May 7, 2018
1,672
I remember really liking infinites gameplay. It felt super fast paced. Almost doom esque in the way where "cover = go fast"


Yeah. I remember loving it on Hard difficulty (other than the stupid ghost boss). The railways were a necessity on the higher difficulties.



Burial at Sea sucked though. ESPECIALLY the story. Killed any interest I had in replaying the base game.
 

sam777

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,661
I played Infinite again last month and I love it. One of my favourite ever games each to their own I guess
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,600
I also recently replayed Infinite and played Burial at Sea for the first time.

I also though the game was amazing when I played it in 2013.

I still think Infinite is the most "fun" of the games, but maaaaaaaaan the plot doesn't hold up at all. Especially the whole "the Vox Populi are just as bad as the racists" angle it starts pulling when the dimension hoping starts.

Honestly, the dimension hopping becomes the worst part of the game because of how much contrivances it allows the narrative to have. Like the Booker ghost talking to Elizabeth in Burial Part 2.

Basically it's "I have this idea"

and when asked ok, how to execute it the game does "Dimension hopping!"
 

MDSVeritas

Gameplay Programmer, Sony Santa Monica
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,026
I remember Burial At Sea's plot getting a lot of positive reception on its release and I simply could not for the life of me understand it. For the various things in Infinite's story I didn't especially love, the ending opens up the universe in this grandiose way, with Elizabeth at its center. She understands it, she can traverse it, and she now carries with her the lessons of all the things she's done in the game's story. The possibilities are limitless, the game ends on a fittingly 'infinite' note.

But then Burial At Sea happens and it... doesn't. Turns out Elizabeth's life doesn't actually go that much further. This ultra powerful, nearly omnipotent being in this newly-expanded multiverse dies after a series of needlessly grotesque and depressing plot beats, and dies so that one specific story in one specific universe can come to pass. The ending tried to play it off as this huge thing that she sets in motion Jack's actions in Bioshock, but Bioshock's story is tiny by the time Infinite's main storyline ended, so for everything to just fold back into "actually the only important thing was the story of this one universe in Bioshock, forget the whole multiverse thing we just spent a full game playing up"... it just felt like such a strange and needless move. It's the kind of thing that seems to exist because people liked the original Bioshock and this is Infinite saying "Y'know, you're right, our story isn't as important as the original Bioshock, let's retcon that."

I dunno, it just felt like a lot of violence and depressing plot leading to the conclusion that Infinite's story doesn't matter nearly as much as the game that came out six years prior.
 

cakely

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,149
Chicago
Related: As I said, I just finished Bioshock Infinite last week and this week, it looks like both Burial at Sea DLC is 50% off on Steam.

Edit: I just looked up and saw the spoiler of what happens in those DLCs. I don't think I should bother buying them.
 

Cruxist

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,817
Counterpoint: Bioshock Infinite gave us that great "God Only Knows" a capella moment and that's really what stuck with me from Infinite and thus was worth it.
 

Linus815

Member
Oct 29, 2017
19,766
i despise the dlc. Silly, unneeded retcon for bioshock 1 and infinites plot and characters just kinda got erased.
 

XaosWolf

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,946
Infinite has one of the dumbest endings I've even played in any video game. The gameplay was also a huge step back from the prior entries with boring shooting galleries and homogenised plasmids. Gorgeous aesthetics, horrible everything else.

I never played the DLC because it was for Bioshock Infinite.

Go watch the Matthewmatosis critique to really see the game get the absolute drubbing it deserves. He says it all better than anyone else ever could and the last 2 minutes of the video are brilliant. But yeah, the game is terrible.

youtu.be

Bioshock Infinite Critique

An in-depth critique of Bioshock Infinite, this video will contain spoilers for the entire game.
I was glad this came out way back when because the amount of people claiming "you just didn't understand it" was honestly infuriating.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,302
To be honest I've struggled with the whole BioShock series recently. BioShock 1 was my favourite thing in the world for a couple of years and I was always a fan and defender of 2. Enjoyed Infinite a lot too.

I go back to a lot of the 360 era heavy hitters quite often but find none of them hold up especially well now.
 

theBmZ

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
2,128
While I still think Infinite is a fantastic game. I remember playing Burial at Sea with my brother, and being horribly disappointed with the story direction. So you mean to tell me, the entire point of Infinite was to set up and kiss the ass of the original game? Fuck off. I liked how Infinite expanded the lore of the universe, but its world and characters still stood on their own. But thanks to Burial at Sea, it's been downgraded into an extended prologue for the "real" Bioshock story. I hate Burial at Sea and actively ignore it. It's not part of the canon as far as I'm concerned.
 
Nov 1, 2017
1,111
Maybe I need to play Infinite again, because my memory is that it wasn't saying the Vox Populi were just as bad as Comstock and co., but that they -- and by extension anyone -- could be with the right set of variables that change between universes.

It didn't read to me, at least in 2013, as "Both sides are equally bad!"
 

Azubah

Member
Dec 30, 2017
1,336
I remember thinking the ending of Infinite was cool because there were a lot of neat dimension hopping possibilities of where the franchise could go Then Burial at Sea came out and just shit all over it with a "nah, lets be miserable and somehow this is okay because it sets up the first game".

I am fine with that being the capstone of the franchise, I didn't want anything to do with it after BaS.
 

Deleted member 56752

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
May 15, 2019
8,699
Infinite is still my favorite game of all time. I've beaten it like 7 times and have a save at the end so I can hear the final quotes over and over with the credits sequence with Troy Baker and Ken Levine.
 
OP
OP
Fj0823

Fj0823

Legendary Duelist
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,653
Costa Rica
Counterpoint: Bioshock Infinite gave us that great "God Only Knows" a capella moment and that's really what stuck with me from Infinite and thus was worth it.

Not even the best cover in that game


While I still think Infinite is a fantastic game. I remember playing Burial at Sea with my brother, and being horribly disappointed with the story direction. So you mean to tell me, the entire point of Infinite was to set up and kiss the ass of the original game? Fuck off. I liked how Infinite expanded the lore of the universe, but its world and characters still stood on their own. But thanks to Burial at Sea, it's been downgraded into an extended prologue for the "real" Bioshock story. I hate Burial at Sea and actively ignore it. It's not part of the canon as far as I'm concerned.

Facts.

Now on the BS1 ass kissing angle, again, I really liked the whole idea of Suchong and Fink SECRETLY collaborating as a way to explain their creepy tech.

Suchong and Fink as a character certainly works with this deep dark secret that explains how he can create this monstrosities.

But the moment Andrew Ryan reveals he knows about multiverses and parallel realities. No. Fuck off. That doesn't fit Ryan IN ANY WAY. His bit is talking about parasites and being one big hypocrite.

He should not be talking about this shit.
 
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Altazor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,147
Chile
fuck Burial at Sea, fuck it. Never happened in my headcanon. Loved Infinite's ending and this DLC somehow ruined both it and the original Bioshock. Fuck it.