Still my favorite, and the only one that truly felt fresh for me since the original. Glad you liked it OP.
Yep. So annoyed they skipped adding mons from it to smash bros…
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I just beat Pokémon White for the first time, and I enjoyed it WAY more than I was expecting!
- Thread starter Shiny Man
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Gen V is amazing. I love BW. The characterization, the music, the art and framing: it's all top-notch.
B2W2 is sublime and has my favorite soundfont for the series. The guitar has a bit more of an edge and in general, the music is a step up. Each gym has unique music, and the end tournament has a wealth of remixes. It continues the amazing characterization of BW, although in a much more standard adventure. Still, the last third is a blast and the resolution to Hugh's story is one of my favorite in the series.
I have a different interpretation of the Gen V story that I wrote a while ago, but it's a bit long so I'll spoiler tag it.
Seconded. The original SuMo gives BW a run for its money with narrative and worldbuilding. I think BW has better pacing and feels more like a classic Pokemon game, but SuMo feels like a vacation and its smaller crafted world allows for one of the most realized regions. USUM flesh out the islands and some of the overlooked characters, but the overall narrative takes a hit that still rubs me the wrong way. It's otherwise the best version of Alola, but the narrative hit really hurts the overall package for me.
B2W2 is sublime and has my favorite soundfont for the series. The guitar has a bit more of an edge and in general, the music is a step up. Each gym has unique music, and the end tournament has a wealth of remixes. It continues the amazing characterization of BW, although in a much more standard adventure. Still, the last third is a blast and the resolution to Hugh's story is one of my favorite in the series.
I have a different interpretation of the Gen V story that I wrote a while ago, but it's a bit long so I'll spoiler tag it.
Gen 5 really wasn't about the morality of owning Pokemon. One of the first things that happens is Team Plasma attacking a Munna, before Ghetsis appears and threatens them. Of course, this isn't Ghetsis, but a Musharna who has created an illusion, but one that notably can talk. This establishes early on Plasma's deception and Pokemon's sentience. Their ability to think for themselves.
The truth and ideals theme revolves around N, who can communicate with Pokemon but believes in the fake ideals of Ghetsis to the point that he ignores the truth of what the Pokemon he talks to want. They constantly tell him he misunderstands the relationship between Pokemon and trainers, but until the end, he ignores them due to his own mistreatment from Ghetsis. It's a complex story, but it's mostly a character-driven one rather than a moralistic one, although the two can overlap. This is why characters go through their own smaller-scale versions, like Bianca realizing she'd be suited to being the professor's assistant and Cheren's desire to be strong leading him to confuse power for strength.
I do think there are arguments to be made about Pokemon, but it would need to revolve around the player. The player seems to be the only one breeding Pokemon for perfect stats and natures. They'd have to make you the villain or change the society to make them reflect your choices to be the best. There's a reason you as a kid always beat the champion and it's your relentless search for the strongest Pokemon. Hop actually came closest to this after Bede beat him, with his Pokemon constantly shifting. It's a good arc in a game that had strong ideas with some really weird and often unsatisfying execution.
The truth and ideals theme revolves around N, who can communicate with Pokemon but believes in the fake ideals of Ghetsis to the point that he ignores the truth of what the Pokemon he talks to want. They constantly tell him he misunderstands the relationship between Pokemon and trainers, but until the end, he ignores them due to his own mistreatment from Ghetsis. It's a complex story, but it's mostly a character-driven one rather than a moralistic one, although the two can overlap. This is why characters go through their own smaller-scale versions, like Bianca realizing she'd be suited to being the professor's assistant and Cheren's desire to be strong leading him to confuse power for strength.
It bleeds into B2W2 with Hugh spending the whole game angry and chasing after his sister's stolen Purrloin. When he eventually gets it back it doesn't remember him since it's been 5 years and he just freezes, not knowing what to do. His ideals were just, but the truth is more complex and not so simple.
I do think there are arguments to be made about Pokemon, but it would need to revolve around the player. The player seems to be the only one breeding Pokemon for perfect stats and natures. They'd have to make you the villain or change the society to make them reflect your choices to be the best. There's a reason you as a kid always beat the champion and it's your relentless search for the strongest Pokemon. Hop actually came closest to this after Bede beat him, with his Pokemon constantly shifting. It's a good arc in a game that had strong ideas with some really weird and often unsatisfying execution.
Seconded. The original SuMo gives BW a run for its money with narrative and worldbuilding. I think BW has better pacing and feels more like a classic Pokemon game, but SuMo feels like a vacation and its smaller crafted world allows for one of the most realized regions. USUM flesh out the islands and some of the overlooked characters, but the overall narrative takes a hit that still rubs me the wrong way. It's otherwise the best version of Alola, but the narrative hit really hurts the overall package for me.
Best story and gameplay for me by far. I hate most of the designs but Sw/Sh prove that great designs don't make a great game. I honestly feel like as the creature designs got better, the games got worse for me.
Black and White were so goddamn good.
Maybe I should have played B&W2?
Black and White were so goddamn good.
Maybe I should have played B&W2?
I don't think it's a hot take, S/M immediately felt like it had the sauce B/W had when I played it.
It's never too late. B2W2 is like a fully realized version of what Gen 2 did with Kanto, minus the new region. Except instead of removed locations, they've expanded what's there. It's real good.
I think this is a problem with the narrative that it never overcomes.
The story is constantly going on about how important it is to listen to others' perspectives, yet it has an extremely simplistic black-and-white presentation of the issues the characters talk about. "We should listen to others" but in the same game have the main villain be a cartoonishly evil orator whose plan relies on people being willing to listen to him instead of just following the status quo. "We should listen to the Pokemon" but the Pokemon just say the same thing that everyone already believes in all the games outside Black and White.
Not to mention the awkward dichotomy of "truth vs ideals" that reads incredibly clunky every time the characters talk about those things. When N summons Reshiram in Pokemon White, the embodiment of truth, and talks about how important the truth is and how it's better than ideals, there's a bit of a problem. Because the entire point of N is that he doesn't represent the truth. But "Truth" and "Ideals" are just buzzwords that are made interchangeable between the two games.
The only part of Black and White's story I think really works thematically is the small scale rivalry between the protagonist, Bianca, and Cheren. I might be biased here because I played White as a kid and that's the version where the narrative cracks are most obvious.
That said, the presentation of the story is good enough to forgive these issues. Like Ghetsis might be a silly mustache-twirling obviously evil advisor, but that also makes him a lot of fun.
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Gen 5 has the best storytelling, or at minimum the best story. Wonderful games. The climax of BW1 is unparalleled.
I want to write a longer post, but I'm heading to bed. I'll just say while it's views are a bit basic, I do think they're trying to say something with Truth and Ideals, but you have to take what the game defines as each and work from that.
Truth: Make your wonderful dream a reality, and it will become your truth!
Ideals: Wonderful dreams and ideals give you the power to change the world! If anyone can, it's you!
In this light, N calling for Reshiram and Truth isn't too much of a stretch. Dreams are at the core of all of this, and Gen V as a whole.
I just beat it this week. Highlight of the game is definitely the whole Pokemon League/Ending sequence. It was pretty hype when the gym leaders came in to fight the sages.
TBH though, the game does seem kind of rushed in some places. Like, you never fight any of the sages besides Ghetsis. You never fight the Shadow Triad (what even was the point of them). N's Castle was cool, but it's just a straight walk to N instead of being a cool dungeon like the Rocket Hideout or Silph Co. The region seems like the smallest since Johto, and everything kind of feels squished together really closely.
Overall though, I really liked the game and I hope B2W2 is just as good if not better.
TBH though, the game does seem kind of rushed in some places. Like, you never fight any of the sages besides Ghetsis. You never fight the Shadow Triad (what even was the point of them). N's Castle was cool, but it's just a straight walk to N instead of being a cool dungeon like the Rocket Hideout or Silph Co. The region seems like the smallest since Johto, and everything kind of feels squished together really closely.
Overall though, I really liked the game and I hope B2W2 is just as good if not better.
No worries, I like your point about the focus on dreams. It's something I unfortunately missed both as a kid (I never engaged with the Dream World) and as an adult (The Dream World is now defunct).
N is the best rival. Don't @ me.
I especially agree with the bolded. This region has the best Bugs.
It's surreal how badly things have fallen off compared to BW/BW2, and I'm someone who really likes SM and enjoyed SwSh.
Gamefreak were on FIRE the whole DS run. BW1 was good but BW2 is the absolute peak of PKMN games. Packed with content, fixed the linearity and the variety of mons.
3DS titles are awful. They don't want me to play. Where is the skip dialogue button????
3DS titles are awful. They don't want me to play. Where is the skip dialogue button????
BW1 was the peak of the series - BW2 is still good, but it's all downhill from here on.
In addition, I wish that the dex cut in Sword and Shield was handled like the Pokedex in BW1 (i.e. no old Pokemon until postgame - in fact, I think Sword and Shield should have gone further and had no old Pokemon period) - but Gamefreak needs their Gen 1 pandering.
In addition, I wish that the dex cut in Sword and Shield was handled like the Pokedex in BW1 (i.e. no old Pokemon until postgame - in fact, I think Sword and Shield should have gone further and had no old Pokemon period) - but Gamefreak needs their Gen 1 pandering.
My favorite gen for sure. Man Unova was so damn good to explore.
Really kind of wish the games stayed 2D.
Really kind of wish the games stayed 2D.
B/W is still my favorite Pokemon Version. They had the courage to release a Game where only new Pokemon are available (until you beat it). It was a really fresh, reboot like experience. Paired with the best Story ever told in a Pokemon Mainline Game. Great Characters not only N, your Friends have Character development and are not only annoying idiots (I'm looking at you X/Y Cast).
And then came B2/W2. I like B/W a bit more but how cool is it that they brought a Sequel Version instead of a Third Version. Not the first time for Pokemon (G/S was a sequel to R/B), but it was the first and sadly last time they did it in one generation. I still hate me for buying Ultramoon... I just should have played Monster Hunter Stories instead...
Gen. 5 is peak. Probably for ever.
But I have to say that I really enjoyed the DLC from Sw/Sh. Best "Third Version" since B2/W2. But of course the worst Third Version ever (US/UM) is admittedly not a real competitor... they made the Story worse... how is that even possible...
And then came B2/W2. I like B/W a bit more but how cool is it that they brought a Sequel Version instead of a Third Version. Not the first time for Pokemon (G/S was a sequel to R/B), but it was the first and sadly last time they did it in one generation. I still hate me for buying Ultramoon... I just should have played Monster Hunter Stories instead...
Gen. 5 is peak. Probably for ever.
But I have to say that I really enjoyed the DLC from Sw/Sh. Best "Third Version" since B2/W2. But of course the worst Third Version ever (US/UM) is admittedly not a real competitor... they made the Story worse... how is that even possible...
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I've noticed a lot of people who grew up on X/Y and beyond are going back and seeing how much better Pokémon used to be
Gamefreak made a pair of games that should of been the standard going forward. Closest feeling toward Gen 2 and the past connections (going back to Kanto)
Sun and Moon is like they took the story focus of the DS games and cranked it up to the point where you can't play the game for hours because you're stuck reading dialogue and being told where to go.
I do clearly remember the apprehension towards B/W at the time of release, but as years have passed they have definitely found their place as one of the better games. I kinda feel S/M may find similar love as time passes, the storytelling was honestly pretty good (even though there was a lot of it) and the characters pretty well developed in those games too.
Funny how the latter games of a system seem to find more appreciation. Gen 9 on Switch peak performance confirmed (or wishful thinking).
Funny how the latter games of a system seem to find more appreciation. Gen 9 on Switch peak performance confirmed (or wishful thinking).
Yeah, they're incredibly good and really impressive to come back to considering what we've got now. Everything is so high quality and polished. The music, the animations, the speed of everything, story beats and characters. Lots of the new moms are great too
I bought into the "they're shit" talk when they released so never played them at the time. But man, I'm actually glad because coming back to them like 5 year later was just an awesome experience.
I bought into the "they're shit" talk when they released so never played them at the time. But man, I'm actually glad because coming back to them like 5 year later was just an awesome experience.
It should have been unlocked from the start instead of being essentially new game+. Its unlikely anyone is buying the DS carts to play this so that's probably not an issue any more.
Yeah I agree, they locked the mode in a typical unnecessary Game Freak way of doing things. 🙄
I just used a Game Shark to unlock the mode.
I still don't know why Easy Mode also has this extra hoop to go through and unlock, the key system locking difficulty was weird man, should have just kept it to Black City/White Forest and the Regis.
White was my first Pokemon game since Gen 2, and my lasting memory of playing it is just how shocked and disappointed I was by how little had changed in the 12/13 years between those games. I will say I loved only having new Pokemon though, and it had the best Legendary Pokemon of any gen, easily.
I don't get how people can say it was the last time they did something 'different' when Gen 7 changed up so much. Gen 7 feels like the game that switched everything up and got me back into Pokemon in a big way, but generally seems to be disliked by a lot of people.
It's interesting how since the DS the series has followed a pattern of a disappointing first gen, followed by a well loved remake, and then finally a much improved gen. It's partly why BDSP is so disappointing as I feel like GF used those remakes to learn and improve on so much, and it give us better generations to follow. Maybe Arceus now does that job, but I'm not sure based on the trailer we've seen. It looks more like the super basic first gen on a new hardware, but perhaps even more extreme than previous games.
I don't get how people can say it was the last time they did something 'different' when Gen 7 changed up so much. Gen 7 feels like the game that switched everything up and got me back into Pokemon in a big way, but generally seems to be disliked by a lot of people.
It's interesting how since the DS the series has followed a pattern of a disappointing first gen, followed by a well loved remake, and then finally a much improved gen. It's partly why BDSP is so disappointing as I feel like GF used those remakes to learn and improve on so much, and it give us better generations to follow. Maybe Arceus now does that job, but I'm not sure based on the trailer we've seen. It looks more like the super basic first gen on a new hardware, but perhaps even more extreme than previous games.
Gen V was the first time I felt the games truly evolved, there were so many new systems and QoL improvements. The series was stagnant before and since imo.
I mean I love pokemon like I was 10 but the series is very stale when you sit down and actually play the games. B&W where different, they felt modern, advanced, they felt like well thought and designed games. The rest of the series feel like pokemon games (some better some worse), gen V feels like a good game, period.
And the story was actually fun too.
I mean I love pokemon like I was 10 but the series is very stale when you sit down and actually play the games. B&W where different, they felt modern, advanced, they felt like well thought and designed games. The rest of the series feel like pokemon games (some better some worse), gen V feels like a good game, period.
And the story was actually fun too.
Black and White was Game Freak mastering the DS hardware, beautiful sprite work, absolute confidence in the games by not shoehorning old Pokémon, trying to tell a story comparable to other JRPGs, remixing old Pokémon without gimmick battle mechanics, incredible soundtrack that dynamically changes, just the peak of the franchise.