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XaviConcept

Art Director for Videogames
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
4,909
I think it would be pretty fair if the World Tendency feature (in the OG the server would switch difficulty of a region every few hours/days. If its light, then its easier, if dark, much harder. It was always dark in Halloween, for instance) was something you could set at the beginning of your playthrough. Not quite an easy mode but def something helpful for players that would like the experience to be less grueling.
 

Zelas

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,020
You are being purposefully obtuse. So ridiculous.
It's obtuse to continually to express frustration game after game with a series that was envisioned from the start to be the way it currently is.

Folks don't campaign for MMOs to allow them to complete 100% of all content in a week because that's not what those games are envisioned to be.
 

Fadewise

Member
Nov 5, 2017
3,210
3. Add checkpoints in front of Boss arenas

This one right here is the crux of it for me. I've played most of the Souls games, and largely enjoyed them, including the difficulty and challenge of overcoming it, but what I just cannot abide is the TEDIUM of, once i've learned the patterns of the the level to get to a boss, having to re-grind that run each time I want to take on a boss. I have absolutely no problem with dying a million times and getting incrementally better until i achieve success, but at some point the level themselves become trivial, but I still have to spend ten minutes running through a level that has no real danger to me just to get back and try my next attempt at the boss. I appreciate challenge in games, but the punishment for failure should never be tedium.

I think a good compromise for the Souls games would be something like "if you die during a boss fight, you can respawn outside the fog door, but at the cost of all of your souls (and maybe even some farmable consumable)"
 
Oct 26, 2017
12,548
UK
I really hope they dont add any difficulty options personally, I kind of love how well balanced these games are in terms of combat. I'm also worried when I inevitably get stuck on a boss for hours ill break and lower the difficulty myself.
 

Banana Aeon

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,260
I love how people bring up the lore as a selling point when the lore is nothing but disjointed nonsense that doesn't make sense.

The Souls series is one of the few games that has an overwhelming oppressive atmosphere to them and an option to make the game easier would contradict the precious lore that these people want. Also, the games are easy anyway. There is legitimately no mechanic skill in the game.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,298
new jersey
I feel like some people are allergic to just sitting down and trying to learn the game for a bit... it won't hurt. It's quite fun to learn and execute what you learned in the game.
I'm with you OP. I've stopped arguing with people who defend lack of difficulty options in games. The more options, the better. Love the latest trends of games having a "story" mode, where the difficulty is nearly non existent.
Most From games barely have stories in them. If you want a 'story' mode Demon's Souls you're going to be really, really disappointed.
I love how people bring up the lore as a selling point when the lore is nothing but disjointed nonsense that doesn't make sense.

The Souls series is one of the few games that has an overwhelming oppressive atmosphere to them and an option to make the game easier would contradict the precious lore that these people want. Also, the games are easy anyway. There is legitimately no mechanic skill in the game.

Yeah, if you play only to see the lore and the main story in Dark Souls.. you're playing the wrong series LOL.
 
Oct 29, 2017
4,515
UK
Games are allowed to not be for you. There's plenty of genres I wish had ways for me to like them, but I have accepted they aren't for me. But there's plenty of ways to make the game easier for yourself. Use a broken build (magic was super strong in Demon's). Overlevel and brute force. Use co-op. Eat a ton of grass because healing is super easy in Demon's Souls (and I imagine that'll be one of the few things actually changed because the grass stuff was stupid). There's ways to make games harder for yourself, and ways to make it easier. Just because a menu doesn't give you the option to steamroll the game by default doesn't mean there isn't stuff in the game to make it easier to get through if you're having a hard time.

Easy modes just tend to reward people for not engaging with mechanics. I just don't understand why someone would want to ignore game they're playing because they think seeing the story is what matters.
 

Zeal543

Next Level Seer
Member
May 15, 2020
5,795
Co-op IS easy mode in souls games, summoning breaks every single enemy AI, not to mention you can have 2 summons. Also magic, especially in demon's.
 

Ænima

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,513
Portugal
Oh, that's actually really cool! I've never played Demon's Souls.

Well idk then lol
Its great fun, because you can be summoned to be you controlling the boss and trying to kill the other players. Especially fun when you see the player enters the fight with co-op allies and u still put up a good fight. One of the most memorable experiences i had with any souls game.
 

Slaythe

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,854
yeah there is when it's basically the fans trying to gatekeep the games. It's embarrassing

Alright I'm gonna repeat myself then.

The creators, are on the record, stating the challenge and failure are a direct part of the game's design and philosophy.

While things for future titles could potentially change, in no way will that retroactively be forced onto an existing project.

There is not much else to add. This is not gatekeeping. This is you refusing to accept not every game has to be molded for you or what you want.
 

Spehornoob

Member
Nov 15, 2017
8,945
Is every game that isn't necessarily trying to appeal to every potential audience engaging in gatekeeping?
 

Pendas

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,652
As someone who played Dark Souls with co-op to get past bosses... it absolutely is not. Co-op lets you avoid playing the game by relying on a better player or an AI to tank hits. That's not an easy mode. A proper easy mode would let players actually engage with the game and take down bosses themselves instead of watching someone do most of the work. Or even just kill it for you.

As someone who has played every single Souls, with and without Co-op, it absolutely is easy mode. Most of the time I can ignore boss mechanics and just wail away. This is even easier if you summon an NPC.
 
why not?. Would be ok if a mode with more checkpoints would be hided and only accessible by a combination of 7 buttons?. You only had to ignore it.
Well, to be honest, if we're talking about a different game that wasn't Demon's Souls, I would most certainly see Sony adding an easier difficulty or too. But for this game specifically, I just can't picture them adding it. Maybe it's because of the perception of Demon's Souls' difficulty playing a significant role in shaping the design philosophy for the genre.
 

DarkChronic

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,037
Most From games barely have stories in them. If you want a 'story' mode Demon's Souls you're going to be really, really disappointed.

It lacks in an actual plot but the lore in Bloodborne is some of the best I've ever seen in a video game, honestly. Easy modes really let me soak in the atmosphere and world of a story much more than a hard mode. If I'm constantly grinding and replaying boss battles 20+ times, it makes it super difficult to enjoy the world that was built. Often times I get "sucked out" of the experience because I'm raging over a difficult boss. It's not what I'm looking for in a game - I don't need to prove anything. I just want to get lost in that fictional world because it's so damn cool and interesting to experience.
 

Ether

Member
Oct 28, 2017
235
I only beat one of these games and it was Demon Souls and it was only accomplished through Youtube videos.

OP is right and there are a lot of man babies in here that get offended just from a simple ask of someone wanting an easier game just so they can enjoy it. Ok we get it you are a tough very gud gamer, how the fuck is someone getting a chance to play it on easy mode gonna effect your play through on normal difficulty and why don't you want them to have their own experience with the game. You fuckers have like 10 of these games just released this generation only, let the casuals have just 1 game with the casual mode.

I am with the OP on this one, I have limited time to play games, and I don't want to spend 3 hours on a game where I barely progress in the game cuz I am in the process of getting gud. The games have an interesting game settings, combat and enemies, and they look extremely cool so us casuals wanna play them.

At least the casual mode could a save point right before a boss, why the fuck should I have to replay the whole level again cuz I died from the boss.

rant over.

I couldn't agree more with everything in this post. The "git good" crowd is so elitist and exclusive that they recoil at someone else playing the game in a more relaxed capacity, as if the core game is diminished and unplayable as a result.

As a gamer that'll officially be in his 40s in the middle of next gen, I increasingly have less time and tolerance to invest in head banging with my games. If something is unforgiving and intentionally stupid-hard, that's a game that's not getting my dollars.

For everyone that loves FROM and want them to thrive and survive for years to come as game dev costs continue to rise, they should be in favor of considerations to expand the audience of their games. There are some very straightforward tweaks they can make that wouldn't compromise the unforgiving nature of their games with the normal play experiences.
 

N.47H.4N

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,096
I think the original Demons Souls was already easy,I am not against a casual mode,more people would enjoy the game,and options is always good,I don't understand why an easy mode bothers so much some "hardcore" players,when they still get their hard mode,I guess they would lost that weight when say "I beat Demons Souls" if a lot of noobs beat it too on easy mode,but you can bet some fans would riot,well you can already see by the responses here.
 
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smash_robot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
994
Demon's isn't actually that hard. Start with the royal or whatever class has the magic attack from a distance, take your time and grind your way to victory.

Edit: the bigger question is will bluepoint have fixed the boss fight cheese's - there are quite a few in the game. You can beat the hard end boss without even fighting him lol.
 

2shd

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,573
You don't see threads about "make Tekken easier for me" but Souls continues to have this problem after 10 years. I wonder why.

A head-to-head competitive game is a different case. This is not an apt comparisons. Fwiw, there have been broken modes in CvS2 version or the 3DS SFIV where Guile didn't have to charge which break the game, but they were separate modes and didn't hurt the core experience.

Having tried souls games multiple times, I don't understand why this dead horse constantly gets beaten. It doesn't seem that the devs are interested and simply asking for a casual mode in general and leaving it at that seems like a poor request since that could mean almost anything depending on who you ask.

This is a remake/re-envisioning, so they're not necessary beholden to that.

How would an easy mode function online? Do you have more health and deal more damage than your invader? Are your invader's stats bought up to your playthroughs "easy mode" stats? Can you even play multiplayer at all? 🤔 If you invade someone on hard mode, are your stats brought down?

If an easy mode is just about stat numbers, can't you just grind anyway?

People wanting an easy mode seem not to be interested in co-op as the so-called easy mode, so making it offline only is fine, and if they turn off trophies, it's essentially sandboxed and effects no one else, so it really doesn't matter.
 

Voke

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,336
When will people with no patience to learn a video game's basic systems in gameplay realize that without the difficultly, Souls games would not have anywhere near the impact it currently has on players. In a hypothetical easy mode, you are missing out on 70% of what makes a Souls game engaging. You are simply replacing reward with shallowness. If you don't want to learn the game (which is nowhere near as hard as it's made out to be) find something else to play.
 
Lmao even Sony's PR using the difficulty as a selling point

From JAPAN Studio and Bluepoint Games comes a remake of the PlayStation classic, Demon's Souls. This remake invites players to experience the original brutal challenge, completely rebuilt from the ground up and masterfully enhanced with a new "Fractured Mode." In addition to beautiful shadow effects and ray tracing, players can choose between two graphics modes while playing: one focused on fidelity, and one focused on frame rate. Coming to PlayStation 5.
 

ScoobsJoestar

Member
May 30, 2019
4,071
i don't think that choices are necessarily always a good thing. For example, I think that adding a choice for Last of Us' ending would've been terrible and made the game's plot very bland as opposed to what it was. Even if I never picked the "other" option knowing that it was just an option would've made me care less about the ending. Likewise, even if I never pick the easier difficulty, the fact that the game would frame struggling with a both as a choice as opposed to a necessity would take away much of what I personally like about the games. I think forcing the player to
approach the game a certain way is one important way of making the game have a certain atmosphere or tone to it, and choices can take away what the game wants the player to feel like in order to turn it into more of a sandbox - which is perfectly fine depending on the game, mind.

That and to be real I don't really think that Souls games are actually hard. Like, real talk, I have nerve damage on one hand and it makes for certain games like shooters to be almost unplayable for me. Souls games are honestly really slow paced and easy to learn, so I don't think they are exclusionary based on reflex speed or anything. I could see that argument being made for Sekiro, but souls games are REALLY slow paced and not at all reflex based.

That said, if it does get an easy mode not like I'll complain, I'll just slowly lose interest in the series over time probably, since the framing of "do it this way or you don't get to see the rest of the game" is what made me fall in love with the series. It probably would sell more though to be honest lol
 

Garlador

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
14,131
Alright I'm gonna repeat myself then.

The creators, are on the record, stating the challenge and failure are a direct part of the game's design and philosophy.

While things for future titles could potentially change, in no way will that retroactively be forced onto an existing project.

There is not much else to add. This is not gatekeeping. This is you refusing to accept not every game has to be molded for you or what you want.
While the intent is true, it belies the fact that "challenge" and "failure" are not the same for every type of player. I may be able to breeze through a challenge in a game that is a roadblock to another player, while they could beat a difficult challenge with ease that I lack the skill to surpass. That's why flexible difficulty options exist.

As I stated earlier, I modded my Demon's Souls file to give my character a boost - not to make the game a cakewalk, but to get to the challenge level that my time and ability would allow so I could enjoy the game to the fullest. I had a blast. I love Demon's Souls. I still had some challenging fights and some tragic deaths, but at a level that was reasonable for my lifestyle and skills.

Does that make my experience lesser than another's? I'd argue the opposite. I probably had a BETTER time than if I'd played it the "right way", and I know this because I have played the games the right way before.

Everyone likes to say that a "casual" mode would ruin the Souls games by removing the challenge, when the statement is more that many players want a challenge, but just a lesser one that is more accessible to take on.

I will continue to say that I've never played a Souls game that I made easier that was ruined by doing so. I love the franchises as much as any Souls fan out there, despite playing them that way.
 

Banana Aeon

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,260
I'm going back to this because people have a strange mysticism that souls games have some deep or compelling narrative. These games legitimately have no story. Every single one of these games takes place after real shit happened, and you're just some random dude that just stumbles into the mess. The greatest moment in all of the games is pretty much what the game is all about; two people, fighting over nothing, in the middle of nowhere.

The world-building is not good. It's just, "Hey, shit happened a long time ago, but don't worry. You won't be seeing it."
 

sora87

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,866
Demon's souls was a lot easier than the others because of grass farming and magic, but adding in a casual option certainly wouldn't do any harm and give lots of people the chance to experience it. Win win in my book, options are always good.
 

c0Zm1c

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,206
That's a strike against easy mode in my eyes, splitting the community in two isn't a good thing, specially when the Souls community is so united
How would it split the community when the current one is fine with the games the way they are? Any easy mode would be for people who aren't a part of the current community. Unless you're saying that many current players would ditch you and go to the easy side, and therefore aren't really as "gud" as they make out hehe!
 
Oct 28, 2017
16,780
When will people with no patience to learn a video game's basic systems in gameplay realize that without the difficultly, Souls games would not have anywhere near the impact it currently has on players. In a hypothetical easy mode, you are missing out on 70% of what makes a Souls game engaging. You are simply replacing reward with shallowness. If you don't want to learn the game (which is nowhere near as hard as it's made out to be) find something else to play.
Yes we wouldn't want people to experience a hollow victory.
 

smash_robot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
994
But seriously, newcomers should try the game first before asking for an easy mode.
I agree. I was put off by how hard everyone made it out to be and didn't buy it. I got it on PS+ and gave it a go - had to read a few guides to get started, but once you are past the first boss fight it's not that bad. I find games like DMC and the original GoW's a lot harder.
 
Oct 31, 2017
14,991
No one will be affected by there being more difficulty modes/accessibility options, and From makes more than enough money now to be able to afford putting in some resources towards that, and no one will think that the games aren't difficult if more options are provided. Period. I have nothing else to add.

Edit: actually, I do. If I was a From employee and read these threads I would feel horrible because all the fans of the series are basically saying the games are only worth a damn because they make you die 374738282 times per playthrough
 

Deleted member 20471

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,109
I'm a huge Souls fan and I don't see any downsides regarding the inclusion of an easy/casual/story mode. Some replies in this thread are super weird.
 

Shiranui93

One Winged Slayer
Member
Mar 7, 2018
429
Demon's Souls isn't as hard as any of the Dark Souls games. Still demanding, but not balls to the wall hard. You're good OP
 

Wein Cruz

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,772
You can buy one billion healing items in demon's, grind yer ass off, and play co-op.

Buy a bow and shit loads of arrows and be extra cheesy...
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,298
new jersey
It lacks in an actual plot but the lore in Bloodborne is some of the best I've ever seen in a video game, honestly. Easy modes really let me soak in the atmosphere and world of a story much more than a hard mode. If I'm constantly grinding and replaying boss battles 20+ times, it makes it super difficult to enjoy the world that was built. Often times I get "sucked out" of the experience because I'm raging over a difficult boss. It's not what I'm looking for in a game - I don't need to prove anything. I just want to get lost in that fictional world because it's so damn cool and interesting to experience.
Lore and story are different things. The story of Bloodborne is straight forward and barebones, the actual lore on item descriptions, etc. are fantastic. I personally feel like half of the atmosphere comes from the challenging dangerous world that FROM creates. It really helps enforce it. Also if you want to make it easy.. just cheese the bosses. The electric mace thing in Bloodborne is a boss killer.
 

TheRuralJuror

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,504
A head-to-head competitive game is a different case. This is not an apt comparisons. Fwiw, there have been broken modes in CvS2 version or the 3DS SFIV where Guile didn't have to charge which break the game, but they were separate modes and didn't hurt the core experience.



This is a remake/re-envisioning, so they're not necessary beholden to that.



People wanting an easy mode seem not to be interested in co-op as the so-called easy mode, so making it offline only is fine, and if they turn off trophies, it's essentially sandboxed and effects no one else, so it really doesn't matter.
I think you'd have to be purposely obtuse to think it was going to translate into something that they've made clear they've got little interest in, but others are free to feel how they like of course.
 

Seesaw15

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,819
At this point you just have to hope From adds difficulty modes going forward. Seems very unlikely to expect that they'll do it for Demon Souls remake or the Bloodborne remaster if that exist.
 

ScoobsJoestar

Member
May 30, 2019
4,071
I'm going back to this because people have a strange mysticism that souls games have some deep or compelling narrative. These games legitimately have no story. Every single one of these games takes place after real shit happened, and you're just some random dude that just stumbles into the mess. The greatest moment in all of the games is pretty much what the game is all about; two people, fighting over nothing, in the middle of nowhere.

The world-building is not good. It's just, "Hey, shit happened a long time ago, but don't worry. You won't be seeing it."

Eh, I really like blooborne's worldbuilding, though I'd agree on the other games being serviceable at best. I think that would games don't have the greatest plot, but being able to piece together the plot through the environment and item descriptions is a pretty fun and unique experience as far as games go.
 

2shd

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,573
When will people with no patience to learn a video game's basic systems in gameplay realize that without the difficultly, Souls games would not have anywhere near the impact it currently has on players. In a hypothetical easy mode, you are missing out on 70% of what makes a Souls game engaging. You are simply replacing reward with shallowness. If you don't want to learn the game (which is nowhere near as hard as it's made out to be) find something else to play.

To counter that argument, if there's a mode that's completely separate, doesn't give trophies and is offline, who cares if they didn't "learn" the game? If it supports the developers, makes that player happy, and gives them enjoyment, how does that realistically hurt you? Do you really think the developers aren't aware of the "vision" of these games for the core experience at this point?

The only legit argument I could see against Bluepoint putting in a sandboxed "easy" mode is the harrassment they would likely receive from the unreasonable members of the series' fan base.
 

TooBusyLookinGud

Graphics Engineer
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
7,964
California
So what about those with limited time like you but make want to make time for ND games so have less time for Souls games? Why should they be denided what you have been given?

I say give souls games easy mode, give it hard mode and give it soul crushingly diffcult mode for people who are up to the challange.
ND games aren't built around a difficultly mechanic. Difficultly is not the basis of their gameplay experience.
 
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