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I Have to be Honest. Seeing How Well Biden is Doing Against Trump Kinda Makes Me Happy He Got the Nom
- Thread starter Gaf Zombie
- Start date
Exactly. Thought your other post was more about not wanting to hear about criticisms. My bad.
I'm pretty much in line with what Chomsky said. I agree that the strategy of not voting for Biden is meaningless, and so it makes more sense to reduce Trump's damage. However, I can't find myself blaming those not voting for him because there are many people who aren't purists who also don't vote. I would rather blame the candidate for failing to drive those people out in a general election tbh.
Bring up one specific topic and lets talk. I'm not going to engage in a shotgun style post.
You're free to pick one, but I'm sure that poster is soon to be banned knowing this place.
ctrl+f "siren song of lesser evil" and read the block quote there. Let me know your thoughts.
The one that opens with an inflammatory generalization of people in this thread?
ah yes "this place". this is surely someone posting in good faith
Go check the leftist OT and see how many people are banned. That's evidence enough.
Really dude?
It's clearly an analogy, but if you want to find a way to make it sound like I don't care about mass incarceration when you know nothing about me, go ahead.
meaningfully engage what? That post is one of those gigantic traps to get you on one small point because no single argument is strong on its own. Not to mention, it opens in a fashion that assumes Biden spearheaded every single crime bill when most of the time he was a single vote and was not the one responsible for proposing the bill. Like the 1994 crime bill was mostly pushed by the White house and black community leaders at the time. It's missing so much context it's laughable.
I don't like Joe Biden and I would have preferred practically anyone else that was running for nomination but it is what it is. We need to be united in unseating Trump and then we can work it out from there. Democrats arguing amongst themselves would take focus away from the true goal.
Analogy
noun
- a comparison between two things, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification.
Would have preferred Warren/Sanders/Harris/Inslee but I will vote pragmatically for Biden this November.
Maybe there was good reason why those users were banned?
Sigh...I'll bite with regards to some of the stuff like the crime bill and war on drugs.
The Crime-Bill Debate Shows How Short Americans’ Memories Are
In hindsight, complicated policy conversations get flattened into stark shades of right and wrong.
www.theatlantic.com
A lot of black leaders at the time supported the bill and being harsh on drugs even though the bill wasn't great or even good because things really were that fucking bad. New Jack City wasn't entirely fictional, that shit was legit based on an era and place. Hindsight, the bill was fucking garbage and victimized black people disproportionately, but it did have support at the time amongst their communities and representatives even if it didn't address everything they wanted(not more policing, but better policing).
I welcome you to address what you view as the weakest argument in my post and ignore everything else.
Please name some names. Which black leaders, specifically? Politicians? Powerful people of wealth? Or low-income members of the affected communities?
You clearly are baiting people and have no interest in a conversation that actually wants to dialogue. You're assuming the worst about every poster and being combative with everyone. Why would anyone want to post in response to you?
No one owes you an argument or even is required to take you seriously.
Yeah I guess if SA victims saying they won't vote for Biden is a bannable offense, I'm so proud of this community.
Biden has his issues. But he's got Trump so shook that he openly committed treason to try and hurt his chances.
I didn't take the time to construct that post to not have dialogue here. I honestly don't know what would make you think that. Me disagreeing with you or pointing out that an analogy is in fact a type of comparison, is not the same as me being combative.
Because posters to the right of me won't, I'll engage this post.
This is Joe Biden's record. He argued that Ronald Reagan, literal "Southern Strategy" Ronald Reagan, was too soft on crime.
Democratic politicians are TERRIFIED of being seen as "soft on crime" (read: not sentencing black teenagers to death). This informs Democratic policies to date. The left call today is for police to be defunded and for those tax dollars to be put into prevention and mental health treatment/etc. Presidential candidate Joe Biden opposes this and is calling for INCREASES in police funding!
Like, this party sucks shit. At this point what can you say?
This is Joe Biden's record. He argued that Ronald Reagan, literal "Southern Strategy" Ronald Reagan, was too soft on crime.
Also:
Why we as leftists shouldn't fall for the the "lesser evil" argument:
And as for democrats more generally:
Sources:
Facing Reality: The Socialist Left, the Sanders Campaign and Our Future - New Politics
[PDF][Print]A little over a month ago, many on the new socialist left expected Bernie Sanders to win the Democratic Party nomination, defeat Donald Trump in the general election, and enact a program of social democratic reform . . . Read more ›newpol.org
The controversial 1994 crime law that Joe Biden helped write, explained
Biden has taken credit for the 1994 crime law. But critics say the law contributed to mass incarceration.www.vox.com
Joe Biden didn’t just support the war on drugs. He wrote much of the legislation behind it.
Biden was a major Democratic leader in spearheading America’s war on drugs during the 1980s and ’90s.
If You Thought Obama Was Giving Less Military Gear to Local Police Departments, You Were Wrong
Despite the President's executive order, police are receiving as much hardware from the Pentagon as ever.inthesetimes.com
Joe Biden Was Talking Up War With Iraq Five Years Before Invasion
At a 1998 Senate hearing, Biden argued that “taking Saddam down” was the only way to guarantee Iraq’s disarmament.theintercept.com
Leaked 2015 Memo Told Dems: 'Don't Offer Support' For Black Lives Matter Policy Positions
The memo lists several suggestions for how Democratic congressional candidates should handle an encounter with a Black Lives Matter activist.www.huffpost.com
Biden proposed ‘Police Officer’s Bill of Rights’ two months after Rodney King beating - Washington Examiner
Nearly 30 years before a bystander with a cellphone caught a Minneapolis Police Department officer restraining George Floyd with his knee on Floyd's neck, police in Los Angeles were covertly taped beating a criminal suspect. And Sen. Joe Biden, chairman of the Judiciary Committee, proposed...www.washingtonexaminer.com
Biden campaign opposes calls to ‘defund the police’
Democratic presidential contender Joe Biden’s campaign said on Monday that the former vice president does not support calls to defund the police amid growing calls to do so by activists …thehill.com
Democratic politicians are TERRIFIED of being seen as "soft on crime" (read: not sentencing black teenagers to death). This informs Democratic policies to date. The left call today is for police to be defunded and for those tax dollars to be put into prevention and mental health treatment/etc. Presidential candidate Joe Biden opposes this and is calling for INCREASES in police funding!
Like, this party sucks shit. At this point what can you say?
No one has been banned for saying they won't vote for Biden, you are being exceptionally disingenuous.
I was Bernie or bust for a second but tbh it didn't last very long, Biden has shown he is willing to change and move leftward, and it's clear as day electability is the #1 priority now. Bernie was always going to have a rougher time and I never really doubted that.
He really isn't willing to move leftward, though. Follow the money.
Thanks for at least letting everyone know you aren't posting in good faith.
What?
Lol Hilary was leading all throughout the summer/election season
It's not over until it's over so I wouldn't be to happy just yet
Hope Biden pulls it off though
It's not over until it's over so I wouldn't be to happy just yet
Hope Biden pulls it off though
This hasn't happened.
Anyway, there was sizable exodus of users from this site after a handful "true progressives" used the now uncredible allegation as a weapon against members of a communtiy.
There was some serious bullying going on
When? I must have missed Biden moving leftward. Because we've got hundreds of thousands of people in the streets right now and Biden is talking about shooting people in the legs and opposes defunding the police.
Look at Biden's major donors. Look at Biden's policy priorities.
I mean sure it may look that way if you ignore [checks notes] most of his major policy issues that have moved more left
At this point with everything that's come out, I can't take the Reade accusations seriously as being credible in any capacity.
What's good faith when leftists aren't offered it in these types of threads. If I say I'm not voting for Biden because I don't feel comfortable voting for him I'll be branded as a Trump supporter. When it literally doesn't work that way.
That's totally fine, but will likely kill any sort of "believe women" discussions in the future. Also, there's more than one reason to not want to vote Biden.
I just don't think people seem to grasp how many other people that are good policy makes Biden will bring in with him. The president is one figure, but the appointments matter too. The EPA, finance, foreign policy, etc. I mean you can hate the guy, but I'm voting to protect my DACA friends, my Trans friends, my Black friends. I recognize there will be more to do and Biden isn't going to solve it all. But just unplugging and throwing up my hands is something I promised I would never do again as a white man who coasted most my life.
yeah probably not to the extent that is truly needed
I think whatever issues I have with him though just pales in comparison to 4 more years of Trump, so I don't bother wasting energy getting distraught over his problems anymore. Another 4 years of Trump will destroy the country
Biden is willing to listen and be pulled in the right direction when the party pulls him. That is what is important. At the same time we have a very legitimate chance of taking the Senate with Biden which will allow actual Progressive Policies to happen.
Biden as President without the Senate is just hoping we can stop the bleeding and start to reverse Trumpism. If Biden can deliver us the Senate we can do a lot more. Just need to keep our politicians feet on the fire and them knowing we demand progress. In the end Bien as President will do far more good than harm. Its so much more than just Biden. Its the EPA, and all of those other organizations that need to be rebuilt and saved from Trump and the GOP
Biden as President without the Senate is just hoping we can stop the bleeding and start to reverse Trumpism. If Biden can deliver us the Senate we can do a lot more. Just need to keep our politicians feet on the fire and them knowing we demand progress. In the end Bien as President will do far more good than harm. Its so much more than just Biden. Its the EPA, and all of those other organizations that need to be rebuilt and saved from Trump and the GOP
He definitely is. Just look at who he's drafted to help with policy.
Sorry, but I'll take AOC & Bernie's word on this one.
You'll forgive me for ignoring the promises of a politician after 8 years of Obama/Biden's "change we can believe in".
I'm not.
Biden is uhh.. problematic.. to say the least. *cocks posting shotgun*
For starters, Joe Biden is the father of our mass incarceration state:
And why? For what purpose did Biden decide to pass this awful legislation? For political gain, of course.
Also:
Why we as leftists shouldn't fall for the the "lesser evil" argument:
And as for democrats more generally:
Sources:
Facing Reality: The Socialist Left, the Sanders Campaign and Our Future - New Politics
[PDF][Print]A little over a month ago, many on the new socialist left expected Bernie Sanders to win the Democratic Party nomination, defeat Donald Trump in the general election, and enact a program of social democratic reform . . . Read more ›The controversial 1994 crime law that Joe Biden helped write, explained
Biden has taken credit for the 1994 crime law. But critics say the law contributed to mass incarceration.Joe Biden didn’t just support the war on drugs. He wrote much of the legislation behind it.
Biden was a major Democratic leader in spearheading America’s war on drugs during the 1980s and ’90s.If You Thought Obama Was Giving Less Military Gear to Local Police Departments, You Were Wrong
Despite the President's executive order, police are receiving as much hardware from the Pentagon as ever.Joe Biden Was Talking Up War With Iraq Five Years Before Invasion
At a 1998 Senate hearing, Biden argued that “taking Saddam down” was the only way to guarantee Iraq’s disarmament.Leaked 2015 Memo Told Dems: 'Don't Offer Support' For Black Lives Matter Policy Positions
The memo lists several suggestions for how Democratic congressional candidates should handle an encounter with a Black Lives Matter activist.Biden proposed ‘Police Officer’s Bill of Rights’ two months after Rodney King beating - Washington Examiner
Nearly 30 years before a bystander with a cellphone caught a Minneapolis Police Department officer restraining George Floyd with his knee on Floyd's neck, police in Los Angeles were covertly taped beating a criminal suspect. And Sen. Joe Biden, chairman of the Judiciary Committee, proposed...Biden campaign opposes calls to ‘defund the police’
Democratic presidential contender Joe Biden’s campaign said on Monday that the former vice president does not support calls to defund the police amid growing calls to do so by activists …
I dunno, this post acts like the leftists don't have a virulent racist problem either considering your bingo cards seems based around it.
There's ABSOLUTELY blind spots with the dems, but the current US leftist movement fails also with race. Which is why Bernie couldn't pull the black vote and immediately 'low information voter' became a dogwhistle.
Even that young woman of color that got quoted isn't exactly a paragon of being anti-racist; her big recent move was quitting her job at the Wing a week or two ago after what, the third nytimes expose at the racism there?
Gonna be hard to point to a bunch of white people and be like 'They have the solution!', until the US left movement is able to have a heavy minority presence it makes it a hard sell that they know how to fix that problem.
I live next to a very liberal part of BK that would consider themselves quite leftist, but the racial tinged NIMBY is in full swing there (Park Slope)
Lol at the virtue bath.
When the next BLM protests start, does anyone honestly see Biden tweeting: when the looting starts the shooting starts?
When the next BLM protests start, does anyone honestly see Biden tweeting: when the looting starts the shooting starts?
If you actually believed this was why people were banned and were, yourself, a decent person trying to stand up for what's right you'd have the quality of character to leave. What kind of monster hangs out in that kind of place?
Believe it or not, most of the people in this thread are probably leftists.
Hell I copped a ban for getting too heated in an argument in favor of Sanders during the primary.
You must have missed the second part of what you quoted, electability. I know it still stings, but Bernie lost, quite decisively I might add. Perhaps learn from that, America isn't where progressives want it to be.
Shall we look at polling on it?
That is a losing issue and Biden knows it, so push for major reform without the perceived toxicity that comes with 'Defund the Police'.
So again, I ask you, what am I to do in November?
Reminder to remain on topic
Official Staff Communication
Please keep it on topic. Other posters' bans are not what the thread is about, nor are assumptions you've made about other posters in this thread. There's plenty to discuss without derailing into metacommentary and hostility. If you don't want to engage with a post, just don't engage with it.
Agree with you there. There is a problem in the left regarding race, but it pales in comparison when held up to the Biden standard.
Ah yes, I'm totally a bad person for staying on the one video game that harbors a small portion of actual leftists. Besides, I've stopped posting as much. This sounds more like you want me to leave though.