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Magnus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,396
I'm super skeptical about overall input lag in particular. What % of the population has the ideal network setup like the OP? We have a pretty damn fast consumer grade internet connection and it still doesn't cut it for action games on PS Now. Maybe this service is better though.
 

Andrew Lucas

Banned
Nov 27, 2017
1,309
1080p on ultra settings >>>>> 4k on whatever settings the consoles run at with that horrible view distance and pop in.

Whats the point of 4k when the details that you would get to see are removed from the game?

The game shines on ultra at whatever resolution. I played it at 3440x1440 ultra wide and it was amazing.

I don't think anyone entirely grasped what he meant.
 

Rizific

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,971
Huh? Streaming is all and good but you will still lose detail. Just because it says you're getting a 1080p output does not mean the bitrate is as good as a local machine. Also, consoles are bottom of the barrel experience? What a silly remark. The bottom of the barrel gets GOTY nominations year in and out.
Yep, there's great games on consoles no doubt about that. Maybe I should have said "game performance" instead of "game experience" (one in the same, to me". But bottom of the barrel when it comes to performance. Op talks about running Witcher 3 at twice the framerate as a console without even having a physical pc. I think that's pretty impressive.
 

Alastor3

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
8,297
Do i just need an Nvidia Shield + good internet connection to try it?
 

Alastor3

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
8,297
I can't imagine how anyone could draw this conclusion on W3, a game with already, quite unresponsive gameplay. I wouldn't be able to tell how the latency was affecting the gameplay in a game where it already feels as though you're wading through mud when moving your character.
Lol seriously? This post just seems like a rant for W3 instead of the actual subject of this topic
 

Alek

Games User Researcher
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
8,492
Lol seriously? This post just seems like a rant for W3 instead of the actual subject of this topic

Yes, seriously.

When I have tried streaming services in the past they've worked fairly well with less responsive games. You hardly notice an input delay when the game already has one. What's 160ms of input lag when the game already has 120, for instance.

But when I've played more responsive games, that's where problems have become apparent. While the game looked fine, executing combos and reacting to on-screen feedback became much harder in games like WRC and Street Fighter, when playing on PS Now, than they would be if the game were played locally. Specifically, while WRC looked the part, countersteering a drift around a turn would almost always result in understeer/oversteer, as the visual feedback is provided too slowly to make accurate fine tuned adjustments to how the car performs.

Input latency is absolutely more noticeable and ultimately, detrimental, in more responsive games.
 
OP
OP
finalflame

finalflame

Product Management
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,538
Yes, seriously.

When I have tried streaming services in the past they've worked fairly well with less responsive games. You hardly notice an input delay when the game already has one. What's 160ms of input lag when the game already has 120, for instance.

But when I've played more responsive games, that's where problems have become apparent. While the game looked fine, executing combos and reacting to on-screen feedback became much harder in games like WRC and Street Fighter, when playing on PS Now, than they would be if the game were played locally. Specifically, while WRC looked the part, countersteering a drift around a turn would almost always result in understeer/oversteer, as the visual feedback is provided too slowly to make accurate fine tuned adjustments to how the car performs.

Input latency is absolutely more noticeable and ultimately, detrimental, in more responsive games.
Once again, the network latency is roughly 1ms in my case (maybe 2ms RTT). There's no 160ms of input lag. After 15 hours with the game this way and some of the more challenging early game fights (botchling), I can assure you it's no detriment in this game's case. Controls feel perfectly responsive and in line with what I expect out of W3 from muscle memory of past playthroughs. But believe whatever you want.
 

Zeroneo

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
666
Yeah, I'm currently playing Overwatch using Parsec to stream my home PC and it works really well. I expect streaming to become more and more popular, even if there'll be whole cities that won't be able to use it.
 

impact

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,380
Tampa
Stopped reading at 1080p. I just can't fuck with that low a res for a beautiful world like Witcher 3. So much lost detail.
 

CozMick

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,242
Tried to play Post Scriptum, 30fps and 720p experience for me on a 300mb/15mb connection.

Not something I will subscribe to in the future.
 
OP
OP
finalflame

finalflame

Product Management
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,538
Stopped reading at 1080p. I just can't fuck with that low a res for a beautiful world like Witcher 3. So much lost detail.
This kind of resolution elitism is really silly IMO, the game looks fantastic at 1080p60 Ultra on the 40" TV I happen to be playing on at ~6ft away. I've played plenty of games at 4K and Witcher 3 in particular at 1440p and yah it's nice, but this isn't "stopped reading" material.

ERA can be weird at times.
 

TheZynster

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,291
The only experience I've had with game streaming is using Remote Play with my PS4, and the experience has been really blurry compared to using the console.


interesting note on playstations service

PSNow DEFINITELY has added input latency on the console compared to the PC.

I played the same game on my console with much hate.........I'm wired on a gigabit connection with like a 5-6ms ping to the city. It still had a massive clear delay/response time. Go to use the PSNow app on the pc and the difference is insane. i can play FPS's on my PC using PSNow without too much complaint.

I should probably give GeforceNow a go and see how it feels.
 

thomasmahler

Game Director at Moon Studios
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
1,097
Vienna / Austria
I played a bunch of Dark Souls 3 through Geforce Now and yeah, it's pretty bitchin. It's incredible that we can play games of that kinda caliber on a dinky Macbook with an intel GPU. I wish there'd be an Android / iOS version of Geforce Now.
 
OP
OP
finalflame

finalflame

Product Management
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,538
I played a bunch of Dark Souls 3 through Geforce Now and yeah, it's pretty bitchin. It's incredible that we can play games of that kinda caliber on a dinky Macbook with an intel GPU. I wish there'd be an Android / iOS version of Geforce Now.
Right? Essentially the Shield version is an Android app, and I believe modern phones have SoCs as powerful or maybe more powerful than the Tegra X1, but I think nVidia locks the nVidia Games app it runs on to their own hardware.

And now that I've read your comment, I really wish Ori was a supported title ... :)
 

tuxfool

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,858
This kind of resolution elitism is really silly IMO, the game looks fantastic at 1080p60 Ultra on the 40" TV I happen to be playing on at ~6ft away. I've played plenty of games at 4K and Witcher 3 in particular at 1440p and yah it's nice, but this isn't "stopped reading" material.
Eh, for some games maybe.

But the witcher with its high frequency details and fairly weak AA, it really needs a higher resolution. 1440p is the minimum I'd use, along with some lod tweaks.

GameStream is way better than Steam link

It can do 1440p/4K
I get better latency with steam link. Also, it can do those resolutions too.
 
OP
OP
finalflame

finalflame

Product Management
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,538
Eh, for some games maybe.

But the witcher with its high frequency details and fairly weak AA, it really needs a higher resolution. 1440p is the minumum I'd use, along with some lod tweaks.
And that's entirely subjective. I've plyed the entire base game at 1440p on an XB271HU and miss nothing from that experience, personally. To each their own.
 

tuxfool

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,858
And that's entirely subjective. I've plyed the entire base game at 1440p on an XB271HU and miss nothing from that experience, personally. To each their own.
I had to temporarily go down to 1080p and I couldn't hack it. This is especially true at their default settings after a few patches, where they futzed with the mipmap biases, so that they had much more detail at distance (too much for 1080p)

I have an Nvidia Shield TV that I mostly use as a Plex server. Will this also work the same way? I might try this so I don't need to drag out the Steam Link.
Why would you need to drag out a steam link if you have a Shield? You could just install the steam link app, it is far more capable than the device.
 

ADS

Member
Oct 27, 2017
872
Once again, the network latency is roughly 1ms in my case (maybe 2ms RTT). There's no 160ms of input lag. After 15 hours with the game this way and some of the more challenging early game fights (botchling), I can assure you it's no detriment in this game's case. Controls feel perfectly responsive and in line with what I expect out of W3 from muscle memory of past playthroughs. But believe whatever you want.

Witcher 3 has glacially slow combat (and a huge input buffer) so latency doesn't seem it'd matter unless it was seriously high.

Have you tried any fighting games/platformers? If they can get over the latency issues I agree that streaming is the future, but for anything other than RPGs I've found Steam Link (all wired, <1ms ping) far too latency inducing. I've not tried Geforce Now so it's possible that it has solved the latency inherent in Steam Link.
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,992
So this is 1080p right? What happens if you set it to 4K? Ever since I went 65 inch for a 4K TV I rather not play games like Witcher 3 in 1080p anymore. Give me the crisp picture that 4K (or close) gives.

If it's really as good as you say I only need a Shield and the GeForce Now service? It does sound a bit too good to be true.
 

impact

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,380
Tampa
This kind of resolution elitism is really silly IMO, the game looks fantastic at 1080p60 Ultra on the 40" TV I happen to be playing on at ~6ft away. I've played plenty of games at 4K and Witcher 3 in particular at 1440p and yah it's nice, but this isn't "stopped reading" material.

ERA can be weird at times.
I admit I am weird, I just love a clean native res IQ. Will take 4K/30 for a game like TW3 all day. It's not a gameplay game.

Dark Souls, Nioh, etc... different story.
 

Alastor3

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
8,297
My computeris old (10yo) so i don't typicaly buy new game on it, so im kind of biased to try it.

For exemple, let see, i buy the nvidiaNOW and a game on steam let say, gta5 which I know my computer can't handle it since I have poor RAM. The Shield will be able to stream it with my internet connection? How does that work since my computer can't run the game? What if it's not streaming well and i need to get a refund on steam?
 

Magicpork

Member
Oct 28, 2017
230
I still have the OG shield from almost 3 years ago and it has since received all three major Android version updates and numerous fixes and security patches.. Not only it can stream almost any game in my steam library (not locally but all through Nvdia's Geforce Now cloud service) at 1080p/60 without much hiccups, as a Plex server it also transcodes anything on my local NAS like a champ, even when it's asleep, on top of all that it's a chromecast ultra device and supports both Netflix/Amazon Prime at 4k+HDR.

It's honestly one of the most impressive pieces of gadgets I've ever owned... and the level of support from Nvidia is second to none..
 
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Carn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,991
The Netherlands
I still have the OG shield from almost 3 years ago and it has since received all three major Android version updates and numerous fixes and security patches.. Not only it can stream almost any game in my steam library (not locally but all through Nvdia's Geforce Now cloud service) at 1080p/60 without much hiccups, as a Plex server it also transcodes anything on my local NAS like a champ, even when it's asleep, on top of all that it's also a chromecast ultra device and supports both Netflix/Amazon Prime at 4k+HDR.

It's honestly one of the most impressive pieces of gadgets I've ever owned... and the level of support from Nvidia is second to none..

Yeah, this is why I aim to buy one soon (massive Plex user). I kinda keep delaying it because I suspect a refresh soon, but I've read nothing but praise regarding the actual box; regarding Android-boxes it's truly the best in class. Also, don't want to invest in a gaming PC anymore (mine died few years back) but still have a decent Steam library, I wont mind forking out a few bucks a month to have access to that again; compared to investiging in a new €1000+ PC.
 

Kwigo

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
8,118
Will this stay free in the future or will it become a paid service once the beta is done?
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,780
This kind of resolution elitism is really silly IMO, the game looks fantastic at 1080p60 Ultra on the 40" TV I happen to be playing on at ~6ft away. I've played plenty of games at 4K and Witcher 3 in particular at 1440p and yah it's nice, but this isn't "stopped reading" material.

ERA can be weird at times.

Uhh... are you complaining of resolution elitism when your original post was about graphic elitism too?

The title says the OP is about how you think the pc version is BETTER than the console version (which it is), and so much than even the cloud version it's still superior.
The entire thread is about graphical quality, and one of the factors to that is resolution of the image.
 

deadfolk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,578
Given that it doesn't look like they're going to ever fix the wacky lighting issue on X1X, I might end up going this route myself.
 
Oct 13, 2018
130
Game streaming seems to me like something where the quality scales inversely with its popularity. Would it work as well if it had as many concurrent users as, say, concurrent Steam users? I'm no expert on broadband networks, but can our network infrastructure support it while maintaining parity with other platforms in terms of the visual quality of the games?
 

GTAce

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,180
Bonn, Germany
I have a hard time believing you but ok.
7911378598.png

That's my connection, to a server 50 miles away. When you live close to a data center with a ping below 5 and a downstream like this, or more, you can receive data so fast that a slow HDD becomes a huge bottleneck. So, I believe them.

EDIT:
I played the same game on my console with much hate.........I'm wired on a gigabit connection with like a 5-6ms ping to the city. It still had a massive clear delay/response time. Go to use the PSNow app on the pc and the difference is insane. i can play FPS's on my PC using PSNow without too much complaint.
Might be the harddrive speed.
 
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Aftermath

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,756
Right OP? I'm always shouting out how good this is people either don't believe me or just don't understand it, one day one of those popular streamers will discover it and suddenly hundreds more will buy a shield and claim it's the best thing since sliced bread and they were there from the beginning or they will hail the google service as the thing thats cool new and the best thing ever, even though it already exists and has existed in some form or another for years.

Folks this is not as bad as onlive or PSNOW, it is a better service, but it does help if you have a good intenet conection, via Ethernet or 5ghz band wifi


Will this stay free in the future or will it become a paid service once the beta is done?

We don't know yet, maybe they will charge for the geforce now thing again in the future, previously it was ÂŁ7.99 per month and the game selection was poor and the service was worse and they didn't have Steam Available, nor a small amount Uplay games access, nor battle.net

Now they have improved it and added all these functions I could see them charging the same price again, but this time it feels like you would be getting a access to Desktop computers in the cloud, plus the small selection of free to stream games that they previously had and a way better service, true you have to own the steam/uplay/battle.net games but for streaming without owning a P.C it may just be worth it especially if they throw in a selection of rotating newer games in the future too.
 

Fastidioso

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
3,101
Good for you OP. Streaming game is out of the question on my country but in any case neither I like play in stream service. I prefer to own the game and the hardware specs.
 

Aniki

"This guy are sick"
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,809
I'm pretty interested in this. When it leaves beta and we know how much the service will cost then i think i will buy me a Shield TV. Hoping they will add smartphones to the devices that will be able to use this service.
 

Prophet Steve

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,178
Although I've heard great impressions for some reason there seems to be package loss while playing on my Nvidia Shield. The test goes well and I have a wired connection with plenty of speed, but when playing I just get drops.

I'll may need to experiment with it a bit more since the service does seem great.
 

etta

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,512
7911378598.png

That's my connection, to a server 50 miles away. When you live close to a data center with a ping below 5 and a downstream like this, or more, you can receive data so fast that a slow HDD becomes...
I have gigabit connection, 950/50, and I still find it hard to believe that the game is more responsive than on console.