I Hate The Word 'Consumer' (The Jimquisition) [read staff post]

[oni-link]

So many wrongdoings can be conveniently reduced to mistake, lol.

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It ultimately doesn't matter, it seems like a mistake to me, but I could be wrong. It just seems weird to me that someone who has on dozens of occasions told people not to attack developers, would then decide to lie, about something he 100% knows he'd be called out on within seconds, just to cause people at attack developers, for some reason

It seems more likely to me he thought he had a point and very rapidly realized he fucked up and had to put his hands up and apologize right away for making such a stupid comment

If you have other sources that would shed light on his motives, to explain why saying something dumb and then being hugely embarrassed by it, was what he intended all along, then by all means feel free to share that with me and I'd be happy to admit I'm wrong

To me it sounds like those who think he lied on purpose, for some reason, probably have an agenda and/or dislike him and his videos, and this is an easy mistake to jump on, as opposed to critically discussing his content on it's own merits

 

[Asriel]

I'm not asking you to "forgive" his mistake, that's up to you, I'm asking you to stop misattributing intent without proof.

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Intentt doesn't matter. It's a lazy, stupid mistake that could have entirely avoided if he actually cared about being factual.

 

[Deleted member 58846]

It doesn't matter. It's a lazy, stupid mistake that could have entirely avoided if he actually cared about being factual.

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Sure, and I agree with that entirely and whole heartedly. Especially since it's not even the first time he's fucked up like that.
So taking statements by him with a grain of salt? Sure, I agree with that, he's been known for jumping the gun. None of that has anything to do with a larger analysis/op-ed, which is basically what his current piece is.

 

[Asriel]

Sure, and I agree with that entirely and whole heartedly. Especially since it's not even the first time he's fucked up like that.
So taking statements by him with a grain of salt? Sure, I agree with that, he's been known for jumping the gun. None of that has anything to do with a larger analysis/op-ed, which is basically what his current piece is.

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Glad we can agree. I don't watch many of his videos anymore, so I can't speak to this specific one.

 

[thisismadness]

I like Jim but this is one of the most "its a slow news week"-ass videos I've seen from him.

 

[TheModestGun]

That's not what i said. Maybe read again.

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So is his observation about consumerism invalid or not then?

Intentt doesn't matter. It's a lazy, stupid mistake that could have entirely avoided if he actually cared about being factual.

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And yet you won't even wrestle with the topic at hand. Is it really so hard to understand that identifying yourself as a consumer is odious in nature? Not something that we should aspire to be identified as?

I feel like this thread is the embodiment of that scene from They Live where Roddy Piper has to wrestle Keith David to put the glasses on.

 

[Deleted member 2620]

What does this dude not hate? I don't watch him but he keeps having his videos posted here and they're literally always negative. I think he needs a break from this industry

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disco elysium and socialist readings of dark souls (and these both rule i don't blame him)

really though, it's entirely possible to be Into Videogames and still be critical of all the things he's critical of. Even framing this hobby as "this industry" ties into this video pretty well, to be honest.

 

[saenima]

Where is the lie in what I said? Did he not explicitly say that companies artificially increase install sizes To prevent you from installing other games?

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Whether he said that or what The One Who Knocks is posting upthread, you are missing the point, willfully or not. He admitted he was wrong, and then apologized for it. Are you of the opinion that what he did is completely inexcusable? Or are you of the opinion that people are forbidden from apologizing once they commit a mistake? Because i hope you're a saint who never once in their lives comitted a mistake if so. Which i very much doubt you are.

Those two are not exclusive and his profitable public persona has little to do with whom he may or may not be the rest of the day.

Also, progressive used to imply progress. He is nitpicky and pedantic far more often than he is insightful or impactful. He hunts for low-hanging fruit and feeds it to an narrow, receptive audience.

My point is that I don't think that he has established a reputation or his character so firmly that he is above jabs or criticism. He's just a YouTuber.

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I completely disagree with your entire post. He is a pretty progressive person, something you would know if you knew anything about Jim Sterling beyond him being 'just a youtuber'. He has firmly established his character and reputation by being one of the most honest people in this industry and by having very consistent views on the industry itself, in and outside of Youtube. From his writing, to his videos, to his podcasting, even to his tweeting, there is a pretty consistent ideologically leftist throughline. His current views are controversial only to people who don't want any criticism of this industry.

You know, if you truly want to see Jim Sterling being an absolute ass, look up old Podcasts from the Destructoid era. Especially the Jonathan Holmes ones. Jimquisition is mild by any metric.

 

[TheKeipatzy]

God these topics bring out the corporate boot lickers. I swear this is why off-topic hates this side. Whine and complain about shit in the industry, and some still go along.

You can be Leftist and a gamer.. but these discussions make me sometimes question if I belong.

Lol at the fools who think this "isn't a big deal" you are whales and wallets and nothing more to these companies!

 

[Asriel]

So is his observation about consumerism invalid or not then?

And yet you won't even wrestle with the topic at hand. Is it really so hard to understand that identifying yourself as a consumer is odious in nature? Not something that we should aspire to be identified as?

I feel like this thread is the embodiment of that scene from They Live where Roddy Piper has to wrestle Keith David to put the glasses on.

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I didn't even watch this video, as I had mentioned several times and can't speak to it.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

It ultimately doesn't matter, it seems like a mistake to me, but I could be wrong. It just seems weird to me that someone who has on dozens of occasions told people not to attack developers, would then decide to lie, about something he 100% knows he'd be called out on within seconds, just to cause people at attack developers, for some reason

It seems more likely to me he thought he had a point and very rapidly realized he fucked up and had to put his hands up and apologize right away for making such a stupid comment

If you have other sources that would shed light on his motives, to explain why saying something dumb and then being hugely embarrassed by it, was what he intended all along, then by all means feel free to share that with me and I'd be happy to admit I'm wrong

To me it sounds like those who think he lied on purpose, for some reason, probably have an agenda and/or dislike him and his videos, and this is an easy mistake to jump on, as opposed to critically discussing his content on it's own merits

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[TheModestGun]

I didn't even watch this video, as I had mentioned several times and can't speak to it.

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Well how about you do watch it and actually comment on topic then? Just because he has said something stupid doesn't mean every observation he has is now invalid. Thats not how life works. People we don't like can be correct sometimes.

 

[Nightbird]

(just read a nice article today about how one of the biggest German gaming YouTubers is buddies with right-wing musicians...).

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Which one? Can you link the article?

 

[saenima]

I feel like this thread is the embodiment of that scene from They Live where Roddy Piper has to wrestle Keith David to put the glasses on.

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Damn i was literally thinking of this scene lol

 

[ibyea]

This is something I myself have been thinking about ever since it struck me how in conversations people have referred to engaging with media as consuming media, something that didn't quiet sit right with me. Thought maybe it was a bit of a nitpicky line of questioning I had going, but I am glad there is someone else also thinking along similar lines.

 

[Asriel]

Well how about you do watch it and actually comment on topic then? Just because he has said something stupid doesn't mean every observation he has is now invalid. Thats not how life works. People we don't like can be correct sometimes.

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Because I don't watch Jim Sterling anymore and won't patronize his videos. 🤷 Of course people we don't like can be correct sometimes.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

Well how about you do watch it and actually comment on topic then? Just because he has said something stupid doesn't mean every observation he has is now invalid. Thats not how life works. People we don't like can be correct sometimes.

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Exactly. I can say Death Stranding sucks, and you will disagree, but that doesn't mean we can't agree on other topics. jk.

Spoiler

Kinda

 

[Leviathan]

I completely disagree with your entire post. He is a pretty progressive person, something you would know if you knew anything about Jim Sterling beyond him being 'just a youtuber'. He has firmly established his character and reputation by being one of the most honest people in this industry and by having very consistent views on the industry itself, in and outside of Youtube. From his writing, to his videos, to his podcasting, even to his tweeting, there is a pretty consistent ideologically leftist throughline. His current views are controversial only to people who don't want any criticism of this industry.

You know, if you truly want to see Jim Sterling being an absolute ass, look up old Podcasts from the Destructoid era. Especially the Jonathan Holmes ones. Jimquisition is mild by any metric.

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Just a tip that you are not going to get far with any baseless accusations that the person to whom you're responding doesn't know something that their previous post implied that they do. Even if it hadn't, it is low and pointless to just accuse people of ignorance for disagreeing with you. Bad start.

And nothing you said challenges what I said. I pointed out that the person before me made a suggestion about him that is not automatically precluded by the public image he offers.

And consistency is not the same as contribution. He is just as impeachable as the rest of us, especially at a time when so many previously beloved figures are having their dirty laundry aired.

 

[Deleted member 58846]

Exactly. I can say Death Stranding sucks, and you will disagree, but that doesn't mean we can't agree on other topics. jk.

Spoiler

Kinda

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Death Stranding is great.
It would be the best November release if it weren't for Pokemon Sword/Shield

:)

 

[TheModestGun]

Exactly. I can say Death Stranding sucks, and you will disagree, but that doesn't mean we can't agree on other topics. jk.

Spoiler

Kinda

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Thems are fighting words there! :P

Nah its cool.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

Because I don't watch Jim Sterling anymore and won't patronize his videos. 🤷 Of course people we don't like can be correct sometimes.

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Then why are you in a thread about him and are talking about a topic that doesn't have to do with the video at hand?
And why did you ignore Oni-Links post?

Death Stranding is great.
It would be the best November release if it weren't for Pokemon Sword/Shield

:)

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[TheModestGun]

Because I don't watch Jim Sterling anymore and won't patronize his videos. 🤷 Of course people we don't like can be correct sometimes.

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Well then why come in this thread even if you aren't going to actually address its topic?

 

[Elandyll]

A very good, on point and well researched opinion video, actually quite different from the usual Jim rant.

As an aside, I honestly think that by now those dropping in Jimquisition video threads just to shit on it without having seen the video (which is quite obvious) should probably get warnings, if not outright short bans.

Shit is ridiculous.

 

[maximumzero]

ok, Jim.

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Holy shit, how'd you manage to watch a ninenteen minute video within one minute?

 

[Shelbyville Milhouse]

Okay consoomer

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See, this is a hilarious joke now

 

[Asriel]

Well then why come in this thread even if you aren't going to actually address its topic?

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Because the topic is about Jim Sterling and I was replying to someone talking about this specific incident.

 

[Cyanity]

I am to be honest baffled that people still care about his stuff after he recently admitted to randomly making up conspiracies to rile up people agains developers ("install sizes are artificially inflated to prevent you from installing other games").

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This is nothing compared to all the shit Jim has dredged up about the games industry as a whole over the years.

 

[BlackJace]

Just a tip that you are not going to get far with any baseless accusations that the person to whom you're responding doesn't know something that their previous post implied that they know. Even if it hadn't implied that, it is low and pointless to just accuse people of ignorance. Bad start.

And nothing you said challenges what I said. I pointed out that the person before me made a suggestion about him that is not automatically precluded by the public image he offers.

And consistency is not the same as contribution. He is just as impeachable as the rest of us, especially at a time when so many previously beloved figures are having their dirty laundry aired.

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Huh

 

[Deleted member 58846]

Because the topic is about Jim Sterling?

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Well, it's actually about this specific video, not a denouement on the man's character at large.

 

[Sign My Guestbook!]

I've been using customer for a long time myself. Consumer equates to a willing part of the corporation/consumer dichotomy in my mind.

As a sidenote, i wonder if it's even possible to ever have a Sterling thread without the same collection of sad trolls coming in to shitpost endlessly.

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Yeah, it implies a willing relationship between two parties.

Consumer makes me think of a mindless, biomass-chugging ocean creature.

 

[Com_Raven]

This is nothing compared to all the shit Jim has dredged up about the games industry as a whole over the years.

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Once you have enjoyed a certain amount of abuse from gamers citing Jim as proof of why you are horrible for working for a certain company, you may come to disagree :) If not, more power to you.

 

[Asriel]

Once you have enjoyed a certain amount of abuse from gamers citing Jim as proof of why you are horrible for working for a certain company, you may come to disagree :) If not, more power to you.

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But it was just a mistake and he said sorry. /s

 

[MrWindUpBird]

It was a stupid assumption which he apologized for and admitted to being wrong about, but yeah that means everything he has said before or will say after that has no merit whatsoever

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Not saying that he should be crucified or not forgiven, but come on. Admitting to making shit up when you're such a powerful voice in a community can absolutely destroy your credibility.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

Thems are fighting words there! :P

Nah its cool.

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A very good, on point and well researched opinion video, actually quite different from the usual Jim rant.

As an aside, I honestly think that by now those dropping in Jimquisition video threads just to shit on it without having seen the video (which is quite obvious) should probably get warnings, if not outright short bans.

Shit is ridiculous.

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Yeah I think it's against ToS to go in a thread without engaging with the topic at hand and instead derailing it.

 

[Ghostwalker]

Not saying that he should be crucified or not forgiven, but come on. Admitting to making shit up when you're such a powerful voice in a community can absolutely destroy your credibility.

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So what he did wrong was admitting to it. So he needs to be like an AAA publisher and never admit to to making shit up even when it is obvious that you did.

 

[saenima]

Once you have enjoyed a certain amount of abuse from gamers citing Jim as proof of why you are horrible for working for a certain company, you may come to disagree :) If not, more power to you.

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And then you decide to hijack a Sterling thread that has nothing to do with you to peddle your personal aggrievements, to the detriment of anyone who wants to discuss the topic at hand.

How lofty.

 

[PirateKingERA]

I see it here on ERA that people who use the word think they are so above others and use it more like an insult, actually it's quite funny because those who usually use it think they are some sort of rebels when all they are doing is give armchair commentary.

 

[Cyanity]

Once you have enjoyed a certain amount of abuse from gamers citing Jim as proof of why you are horrible for working for a certain company, you may come to disagree :) If not, more power to you.

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Sorry, I don't mean to invalidate your personal experience with Jim. I know he can be polarizing and is negative more often than not. But I've also watched most of his content over the years, and one of the points Jim brings up repeatedly is that he blames the people running corporations for their shitty practices, not the employees. In fact, he advocates for employee welfare and unionization constantly, which has always suggested to me that he understands the dichotomy of worker -> boss and how lopsided that can be in the gaming industry.

edit - and to go further, the fact that you have seen harassment over something Jim made perfectly sums up how entitled and shitty gamers can be. Jim literally has to ask his viewers not to harass the names he brings up in his videos sometimes because of how shitty people can be. It sucks.

 

[oni-link]

Once you have enjoyed a certain amount of abuse from gamers citing Jim as proof of why you are horrible for working for a certain company, you may come to disagree :) If not, more power to you.

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I don't think you're horrible and I'm sorry you had to deal with abuse from anyone, for any reason, but at the same time we can't not be critical of anything because losers on the internet will take it too far and harass developers

Gaming unfortunately has a big problem with man babies taking things too seriously, and I think there 100% is a conversation worth having about how YouTube, or Reddit, or gaming forums in general contribute to that atmosphere

 

[MrWindUpBird]

So what he did wrong was admitting to it. So he needs to be like an AAA publisher and never admit to to making shit up even when it is obvious that you did.

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No? Admitting that what he did was wrong was the correct outcome. I'm saying that blatantly going on record with some bullshit assumption without any kind of investigation or research at all is pretty shitty, especially when he's someone who prides himself on being that person in the industry that speaks up when others don't. But lying in any field, in any capacity, is a quick way to destroy credibility. And I'm not saying that he DID, just that you can't blame people for being weary after it.

 

[KimonoNoNo]

Put me in the camp who also hates the term.

 

[saenima]

No? Admitting that what he did was wrong was the correct outcome. I'm saying that blatantly going on record with some bullshit assumption without any kind of investigation or research at all is pretty shitty, especially when he's someone who prides himself on being that person in the industry that speaks up when others don't. But lying in any field, in any capacity, is a quick way to destroy credibility. And I'm not saying that he DID, just that you can't blame people for being weary after it.

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The problem in this particular case, is that the people who seem to now have a problem with his credibility are essentially the same people who also had problems with him before, for some other reason. That mistake, or lie, however you choose to see it, hasn't affected his credibility to any degree that i can see. It only gave the people already angry at him a somewhat more credible argument.

 

[Shelbyville Milhouse]

And then you decide to hijack a Sterling thread that has nothing to do with you to peddle your personal aggrievements, to the detriment of anyone who wants to discuss the topic at hand.

How lofty.

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I think that's a fair reaction to someone who is directly responsible for abuse and harassment you received, even if it was not intended.

 

[Thuddert]

I don't hate it on its own, but whenever someone uses "as a consumer" you know whatever follows is gonna be pure bullshit.

 

[Com_Raven]

Sorry, I don't mean to invalidate your personal experience with Jim. I know he can be polarizing and is negative more often than not. But I've also watched most of his content over the years, and one of the points Jim brings up repeatedly is that he blames the people running corporations for their shitty practices, not the employees. In fact, he advocates for employee welfare and unionization constantly, which has always suggested to me that he understands the dichotomy of worker -> boss and how lopsided that can be in the gaming industry.

edit - and to go further, the fact that you have seen harassment over something Jim made perfectly sums up how entitled and shitty gamers can be. Jim literally has to ask his viewers not to harass the names he brings up in his videos sometimes because of how shitty people can be. It sucks.

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I agree with you on that, and I am absolutely convinced that Jim doesn't hold a grudge or wish ill upon any rank and file EA, Konami, Ubi etc. devs.

But the problem (and my entire point is) that someone who holds a lot of sway (as evident from some users in this thread) with a lot of people, needs to be very careful what they say. And they should not, under any circumstances, make shit up about things they clearly have no clue about, and in doing so further feed the rage and anger of a part of their faithful audience. Because Jim should very well know that those angry people (and let's be honest, he is not shy about stoking anger against gaming companies!) are not gonna send a politely worded letter to Bobby Kotick to express their dissatisfaction, but are gonna abuse or threaten some random Infinity Ward CM or Dev because they are intentionally inflating install sizes on their game. After all, their idol Jim said so, so it must be true, right?

 

[dojo32161]

...This thread looks like it nosedived into a trainwreck.

 

[BoxManLocke]

Really wish Sterling threads would be monitored more sternly.

For months now they've been about 40% derail (like that dude who's been going at it since the very first page), 40% personal attacks and maybe the rest is about the actual video.

 

[saenima]

I think that's a fair reaction to someone who is directly responsible for abuse and harassment you received, even if it was not intended.

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I get it. But has the poster been harassed because of Sterling's direct criticisms of them, or of the corporation they work for. Because the latter gives them no moral right, imo, of doing what they're doing. That would shut down any corporate criticism in any area. Every shitty corporation has employees.

 

[Ghostwalker]

No? Admitting that what he did was wrong was the correct outcome. I'm saying that blatantly going on record with some bullshit assumption without any kind of investigation or research at all is pretty shitty, especially when he's someone who prides himself on being that person in the industry that speaks up when others don't. But lying in any field, in any capacity, is a quick way to destroy credibility. And I'm not saying that he DID, just that you can't blame people for being weary after it.

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So what your saying is all the people that are attacking what Jim has said that have clearly not watched the Video have zero credablity?

 

[Lothars]

So all the people that are attacking what Jim has said that have clearly not watched the Video have zero credablity?

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No because I don't need to watch every video of Jim's to know that he's been wrong just as much if not more as he's been right. He has very little credibility even when he has the occasional video that is right.