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Deleted member 58846

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I don't like the word "consumer." Words have power, and even when two words mean the same thing, the history and implications attached can have a subtle effect on how we process them. In today's video, I explain some of the baggage carried by the word "consumer," and why I've phased out my own usage of the word in favor of others when describing the game-buying public. While some may consider this to be splitting hairs, I had a lot of fun explaining my stance in today's video, and I hope you find it interesting!

I have been critical of Sterling's recent works, but this one I think is an interesting take. I haven't seen the full thing yet, but discussing the connotations of the word "consumer" and how they tie into and subtly reinforce the very worse excesses of capitalism is definitely an intriguing idea for a new video.
 
May 9, 2018
3,600
Consumer is more of an economic term, not a term with inherent racist/classist origins which have been phased out recently (e.g. master/slave system architectures; now typically just called replicas)

I'm not sure his consumer entomology is correct.
 

Jegriva

Banned
Sep 23, 2019
5,519
at least watch the video before shitposting
I totally admit I haven't watched the video, but I haven't got the will.

Lately his videos sound more and more tweets from Hard Drive or Abe Lincoln and the cloud.

Keeping the same level of "indignation" from serious matters (Activision Hong Kong) to trivial shit cheapens whatever message he tries to communicate.
 
Feb 24, 2018
5,226
Very fascinating video, finished watching it off his Twitter, didn't know the history of the words and it made me think I should use customer more.

I really hope the word consumer doesn't become more popular with politicians like that, seeing how manipulative UK politicians are nowadays, them becoming more manipulative and subtlety trying to reduce our agency is something we don't need.

Really hope this time most people actually WATCH the video before posting but I doubt it.
 

Aranjah

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,185
I haven't watched the video yet (will after posting this), but I'm glad someone said it and I'd like to quote myself from a couple of weeks ago:

Only tangentially related, but I'm reminded of how I want to make a thread about how weird it is to me that it's become so commonplace in the last ~3 years (or, more likely, I've only started noticing it then) for normal people (for "consumers") to talk about enjoying various forms of entertainment as "consuming" "content" rather than "playing a game" or "watching a movie" or "listening to a song" or whatever.

For me, at least -- particularly in situations where it's clear we're talking about one specific category, i.e. specifically games, rather than needing a shorthand for multiple forms of media at once -- just referring to it as "content" seems a bit cold and clinical and referring to "consuming" it highlights the disposable "get through it and move on to the next thing" side of entertainment rather than the entertaining side. Being an eating metaphor, it evokes a mental image somewhat like Gluttony from FMA just mindlessly stuffing his face with as much as possible. "I MUST CONSUME. MOAR, MOAR!"

Not being an unfeeling marketing executive driven by the almighty dollar, I find it incredibly off-putting to talk about art in such a cold and distancing way, and it weirds me out that seemingly no one else is bothered.
 

Deepwater

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,349
A lot of people in the online gaming space considers themselves consumers, the same way I consider myself black. And I wish we could go back to a time when it wasn't popular in online lexicon
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,714
I guess Jim. Semantically dissecting words that are readily understood and make discussion easier is such a weak endeavor. Yeah it's an interesting mental exercise but idk what it truly accomplishes.
 

saenima

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,892
I've been using customer for a long time myself. Consumer equates to a willing part of the corporation/consumer dichotomy in my mind.

As a sidenote, i wonder if it's even possible to ever have a Sterling thread without the same collection of sad trolls coming in to shitpost endlessly.
 

Yunyo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,824
I've actually intentionally avoided using the word consumer due to the issues Jim talked about. I've always just said "player" instead. It does feel weird to see other people use the word "consumer" though, like they're part of a statistical mass of some kind.
 
Oct 26, 2017
7,961
South Carolina
I haven't watched the video yet (will after posting this), but I'm glad someone said it and I'd like to quote myself from a couple of weeks ago:

Jargon frim marketing trickling down is a thing lately (logistics == trucking company for example).

Its annoying there, existential when it comes to psy ops abusing framing and terminology to break opposition and avoid detection.
 
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Deleted member 58846

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Jul 28, 2019
5,086
This. Anybody that's taken an ounce of business-related classes in high school or college looks at the freakouts over the word "consumer" with a shrug.
Meanings of words change over time. "Mentally retarded" was a medical term used to denote cognitive impairment, now it is an extremely offensive word.
"Consumer" might be an economics term, but there are absolutely connotations associated with it that are worth discussing.
 

Lobster Roll

signature-less, now and forever
Member
Sep 24, 2019
34,325
Meanings of words change over time. "Mentally retarded" was a medical term used to denote cognitive impairment, now it is an extremely offensive word.
"Consumer" might be an economics term, but there are absolutely connotations associated with it that are worth discussing.
Well that quite that the metaphorical leap.
 

oni-link

tag reference no one gets
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,015
UK
Consumer, or at least the term "anti-consumer", are worth dropping in so far as they seem to upset people who quite like games that favour predatory practices

The real problem is people get tired of hearing about how things are shitty and so it becomes normalised and people then lash out at the people who speak against these huge companies

It's just a term at the end of the day, but I can see why someone would want to use another term
 

MilkBeard

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,780
haven't watched yet (and will later), but I also don't like the word for my own reasons. Hearing people casually use it, when the word itself defines a person by the products they use just sounds odd. I understand its use in business, but often times people who have nothing to do with market analysis use it.

"as a consumer, I"... If someone says this, I will immediately imagine them as a large mouth with no body.
 

CobaltBlu

Member
Nov 29, 2017
813
I don't think arguing over the use of a word like consumer is useful. It's an economic term that does a good job describing the relationship between between a person and business when they engage in a certain behavior. Trying to use a different word isn't going to change that relationship or the behavior it is describing.
 
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Deleted member 58846

User requested account closure
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Jul 28, 2019
5,086
I don't think arguing over the use of a word like consumer is useful. It's an economic term that does a good job describing the relationship between between a person and business when they engage in a certain behavior. Trying to use a different word isn't going to change that relationship or the behavior it is describing.
I mean, it's definitely a symptom rather than the root problem, but it's a relatively easy symptom to address.
 

Deleted member 18400

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Oct 27, 2017
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Man Jim just gets on my nerves lately. He must be in a terrible mood all the time with all these rant pieces he posts on the reg hahaha.

Also, we should get a Jim OT or something, I feel like we get a new Jim thread every 4 days at this point, it's like we are running ads for his Youtube channel.
 

oni-link

tag reference no one gets
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,015
UK
haven't watched yet (and will later), but I also don't like the word for my own reasons. Hearing people casually use it, when the word itself defines a person by the products they use just sounds odd. I understand its use in business, but often times people who have nothing to do with market analysis use it.

"as a consumer, I"... If someone says this, I will immediately imagine them as a large mouth with no body.

So when a developer talks about something as a developer and then from the perspective as a consumer I guess you just don't listen to them?
 

Thardin

Member
Jan 7, 2018
926
lol people starting this thread off by being dismissive of criticism of consumerism

I don't think anyone has been dismissive of criticisms of consumerism, but rather they are dismissing the notion that the word 'consumer' itself is an issue.

Consumerism is a problem. Using the word consumer (where appropriate) isn't really any issue.
 

Com_Raven

Brand Manager
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
1,103
Europa
I am to be honest baffled that people still care about his stuff after he recently admitted to randomly making up conspiracies to rile up people agains developers ("install sizes are artificially inflated to prevent you from installing other games").
 

Aranjah

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,185
This. Anybody that's taken an ounce of business-related classes in high school or college looks at the freakouts over the word "consumer" with a shrug.
I don't think arguing over the use of a word like consumer is useful. It's an economic term that does a good job describing the relationship between between a person and business when they engage in a certain behavior. Trying to use a different word isn't going to change that relationship or the behavior it is describing.

I think that's kind-of his main point in the video, is that the word "consumer" is so favorable and positive from the perspective of the business while being dehumanizing towards the person on the other end of the business transaction, relative to other words that might describe such a person, such as customer, which implies any agency and power in the transaction at all. Naturally a business doesn't want you to think you have any agency or power in the transaction. They just want you to mindlessly "consume" and they are thrilled that you are fine with this.

Edit: It's pointing out another Overton Window type shift between what "consumer" used to mean and how it's used today, being totally fine and normalized, but with the underlying original connotations subtly still there.
 
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Deleted member 58846

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I am to be honest baffled that people still care about his stuff after he recently admitted to randomly making up conspiracies to rile up people agains developers ("install sizes are artificially inflated to prevent you from installing other games").
I don't think he ever admitted to randomly making things up?
 

MilkBeard

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,780
So when a developer talks about something as a developer and then from the perspective as a consumer I guess you just don't listen to them?
No, just the word itself I don't like. I still might listen to their perspective. I know what people mean, and I don't take someone's words on the surface level too literally. I just think it's like putting yourself into the conscious identification with the products you consume. It's somewhat pedantic, which is why I usually don't fuss about it. But I still don't like the idea of using the term to describe yourself.

The word developer is different, since it's your occupation.
 

TheModestGun

Banned
Dec 5, 2017
3,781
I totally relate to what he is saying here. I absolutely HATE the word. It feels very dehumanizing. Like we are just trash compactors, meant to shove endless amounts of garbage down our gullets. Whatever the big corporations give us. Is it a nitpick? Sure. I so relate to his sentiments here though.
 

oni-link

tag reference no one gets
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,015
UK
I am to be honest baffled that people still care about his stuff after he recently admitted to randomly making up conspiracies to rile up people agains developers ("install sizes are artificially inflated to prevent you from installing other games").

It was a stupid assumption which he apologized for and admitted to being wrong about, but yeah that means everything he has said before or will say after that has no merit whatsoever
 

Lobster Roll

signature-less, now and forever
Member
Sep 24, 2019
34,325
I think that's kind-of his main point in the video, is that the word "consumer" is so favorable and positive from the perspective of the business while being dehumanizing towards the person on the other end of the business transaction, relative to other words that might describe such a person, such as customer, which implies any agency and power in the transaction at all. Naturally a business doesn't want you to think you have any agency or power in the transaction. They just want you to mindlessly "consume" and they are thrilled that you are fine with this.
We can both play this game. I like feeling like I have power over my transactions and that I choose what I want to consume. Customers are individuals that are sold products and I am not just a mark for these businesses to sell me on their items. I control my agency over my media consumption and I will not be sold a thing as a customer. They just want you to mindlessly be sold things, and they are thrilled that you are fine with this.
 

AtomicShroom

Tools & Automation
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
3,075
Now I want to grab any article that's came out featuring big Triple-AYYYY CEO's and replace "consumers" with "ingurgitators of content". Would be very fitting.
 

TheModestGun

Banned
Dec 5, 2017
3,781
I am to be honest baffled that people still care about his stuff after he recently admitted to randomly making up conspiracies to rile up people agains developers ("install sizes are artificially inflated to prevent you from installing other games").
Nah. Jim is great and one of the few people in games media that doesn't regularly just come off as a PR mouthpiece for the publishers.
 

Hailinel

Shamed a mod for a tag
Member
Oct 27, 2017
35,527
Meanings of words change over time. "Mentally retarded" was a medical term used to denote cognitive impairment, now it is an extremely offensive word.
"Consumer" might be an economics term, but there are absolutely connotations associated with it that are worth discussing.
Um.

Equating "consumer" with "mentally retarded" is really dumb, to put it mildly.
 

oni-link

tag reference no one gets
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,015
UK
No, just the word itself I don't like. I still might listen to their perspective. I know what people mean, and I don't take someone's words on the surface level too literally. I just think it's like putting yourself into the conscious identification with the products you consume. It's somewhat pedantic, which is why I usually don't fuss about it. But I still don't like the idea of using the term to describe yourself.

Yeah I get that.

I think if anything it's become overused and so it does get a little tedious, but most people are just expressing their view as someone who wants a fair deal for their money

That's probably why he's tried to move away from using the term
 

Com_Raven

Brand Manager
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
1,103
Europa
It was a stupid assumption which he apologized for and admitted to being wrong about, but yeah that means everything he has said before or will say after that has no merit whatsoever

When somebody makes up shit to rile up gamers and make them angry at developers over nothing, then I have a hard time appreciating their work, yes.

I also find it incredibly hypocritical to do shit like that, and in the other hand bemoan there toxicity of gamers, that he himself is happy to stoke with stunts like that.
 

Thardin

Member
Jan 7, 2018
926
I think that's kind-of his main point in the video, is that the word "consumer" is so favorable and positive from the perspective of the business while being dehumanizing towards the person on the other end of the business transaction, relative to other words that might describe such a person, such as customer, which implies any agency and power in the transaction at all. Naturally a business doesn't want you to think you have any agency or power in the transaction. They just want you to mindlessly "consume" and they are thrilled that you are fine with this.

Which, I would argue the issue is not with the fact that the consumer is consuming, but rather how they are consuming.

Mindless consumption and being a mindless consumer that gives up your agency/power in a transaction is an issue. Just because we call those people a customer doesn't make them magically change their poor spending habits. It isn't a word problem, but the adjective before the word that is the problem.

Rather than attack the word we should look at how we consume and what we can do better.
 
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Deleted member 58846

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Jul 28, 2019
5,086
Um.

Equating "consumer" with "mentally retarded" is really dumb, to put it mildly.
How is it a leap? It's an example using an analog demonstrating a technical term from another field that went on to have negative connotations. Consumer is of course nowhere near as bad, but it does have associations worth discussing.

I'm not "equating" them.
I am saying that just because a term is technical in origin doesn't mean it can't be reappropriated.