I hate the Perfect Dark Zero redesign of Joanna Dark so much.

[Gundam]

Joanna Dark's N64 design I don't find particularly amazing - It's definitely some late 90's stink, but I think it's servicable enough, and distinct as Joanna Dark

I think what I like the most about her design here is her shorter hair, something that wasn't so common back then, I feel.

But then Perfect Dark Zero happens.
And, man, outside of being a garbage-to-mediocre video game, I hate hate hate Joanna's design.

Like... What? That's not even the same person. Why does she look like she wants to sell me the latest flavor of Mountain Dew? Why is her hair longer and more cartoonishly red? She looks straight out of Max Steel or Action Man, somehow moreso than the original. Why is she a shitty Black Widow?

Joanna Dark has pretty much always been a sort of "Sexy Skintight Suit Spy Woman" trope, which is certainly a product of Rare's, and gaming-at-large's sensibility at that time, and yet I still find the Perfect Dark Zero design so much trashier? I abhor it and seriously hope it doesn't erase the original and become the defacto design.

But that's okay, right? In Perfect Dark, Joanna is sort of known to wear different outfits, remember?

For some reason, I can't find her Chinese dress from the first game online, but it was generally... Alright? Questionable appropriation aside, I guess the idea is that it's a sort of formal dress for her. In PDZ, we get... A Sim With Guns?

I'm a fan of a good chunk of Rare games, but I feel they've never been super known for great art design. But this is offensively bad.

Maybe with a slight change in art style, a new Joanna Dark with the PDZ design could look alright? But it's so extremely dated in an awful way, to a degree that the original isn't. For me the big thing is the super red, longer hair. I already loathe Scarlett Johannsen and I'd really rather we try not to stick to the idea of bootleg Black Widow.

 

[Deleted member 2254]

Both designs feel children of their respective eras. I don't mind either, but neither would work today. For the new game we need something truly different again.

 

[APZonerunner]

I've never been a fan of the design, but at the end of the day it also is supposed to depict her as just out of her teens and a general theme of Zero's (pretty poor) plot is her growing up because of the death of her father and all that. In this sense the design fits the concept of leading to her as a well-rounded and professional agent years later in the original PD.

The new game will no doubt redesign her again, and tbh I wouldn't be surprised if it was a full series reboot.

 

[JamRock7]

A higher res model and more detailed version of the first model would do nice

 

[Lynd]

Yeah, it's bad. Any reboot better take more cues from the original.

 

[Max|Payne]

I'm willing to bet a new redesign would be based on the likeness of a real actress/model, maybe even straight up photoscanned, like in the RE remakes.

 

[skeezx]

for the mid 00s it wasn't so bad. nobody was particularly crazy about the re-design but it was like okay whatever

but hindsight and all that

 

[Jawmuncher]

Red Hair tho
That's the hair color of a hero.

 

[Gundam]

Both designs feel children of their respective eras. I don't mind either, but neither would work today. For the new game we need something truly different again.

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I generally agree. Where my biggest concern lies is her hair, honestly. Something about the PDZ style just screams generic to me. Like, sometimes it feels like every other western woman protag has red hair for some reason despite that being generally pretty uncommon? I don't know if it's like some fetish thing, but between Mass Effect, Cyberpunk, Horizon Zero Dawn, it's kind of, uninteresting and unusually common? Idk, that's probably a "hot take".

Red Hair tho

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Exactly my problem! Been there, done that!

 

[TheDinoman]

Dude that's not even the worse redesign from that game

Here's Daniel Carrington in Perfect Dark (or at least the HD remaster)

...and here he is in Perfect Dark Zero

what even IS this game

 

[sir_crocodile]

Rare hired Will Overton from Super Play who loves his anime (just check out the Super Play covers). I guess they asked him to redesign her and he went with what he knows.

 

[Gundam]

Dude that's not even the worse redesign from that game

Here's Daniel Carrington in Perfect Dark (or at least the HD remaster)

...and here he is in Perfect Dark Zero

what even IS this game

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Bad

Genuinely I can think of nothing worth salvaging from it for a potential new game

 

[Lyre]

Yep, back to the original pls.

 

[Bony Manifesto]

Reason #562 why there's nothing of value in the Perfect Dark IP.

When even the people who want a new Perfect Dark game want literally every single thing changed and rebooted from the main character up, what's the point? Just make a new game without any of the baggage.

 

[Deleted member 2254]

I mean, Lara Croft looked like this those days:

There was certainly a clear style going on.

 

[Gundam]

Reason #562 why there's nothing of value in the Perfect Dark IP.

When even the people who want a new Perfect Dark game want literally every single thing changed and rebooted from the main character up, what's the point? Just make a new game without any of the baggage.

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Perfect Dark should be the Splinter Cell we deserve (Or need?)

I enjoy the first game a lot, and think it had value for the market of the time. In 2020, I don't think we need Perfect Dark to be a FPS, but the setting and fanbase are established - If you want to make a game with a woman protag, set in a cyberpunk world, where she's a spy, and you own the Perfect Dark IP, the question kind of becomes... Why isn't it Perfect Dark?

I like Joanna's personality in the OG, and I don't want to throw out her entire character history, I just want to avoid using the PDZ design whatsoever.

 

[Bjones]

She's supposed to be younger. I think it works.

 

[Deleted member 51248]

Dude that's not even the worse redesign from that game

Here's Daniel Carrington in Perfect Dark (or at least the HD remaster)

...and here he is in Perfect Dark Zero

what even IS this game

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Its like it came from a promo image for Fortnite or the Sims

 

[Gundam]

I mean, Lara Croft looked like this those days:

There was certainly a clear style going on.

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If you're talking about the OG design:
It's definitely in the neighborhood, but I think it's generally distinct enough - The actual outfit and colors are pretty completely different, and Lara's long ponytail sets her apart 100%.

They're definitely both "Sexy Hollywood Actress" though, if that makes sense.

There is perhaps more, but the only real character that has a similar feel to me is Halo 1 era Cortana. It's all about the hair for me.

 

[Ashlette]

I am curious to see what a hybrid of old and new Joannas would look like.

 

[Samiya]

I remember the promotional material they released back in the day for Zero (was it for men's magazines or something?)

They were really trying to make her happen

 

[Pop-O-Matic]

As someone who has no attachment to this franchise, I'd take Scene Girl Joanna over Generic Spy Lady Joanna any day of the week.

 

[Reinhardt Schneider]

I remember being hyped for Perfect Dark Zero and ready to buy a Xbox until i saw Joanna's design. It was so vulgar, so... Microsoft'd (Can't find a better term, sorry) it made me feel disgusted.

 

[Max|Payne]

I remember the promotional material they released back in the day for Zero (was it for men's magazines or something?)

They were really trying to make her happen

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Definitely trying to channel young Lucy Lawless there. Particularly the first pic.

 

[RROCKMAN]

I don't remember see any of the Ads showing skin, but I had the biggest crush on PDZ Joanna cause of her hair eye combo. Like punk in a cute way

Made me want to get an Xbox, even though that never happened.

If she must be redesigned then I really want them to keep the hairstyle shape, it's very distinctive and shots like below are very striking because of it

 

[TheXbox]

TIL MS is apparently rebooting Perfect Dark

 

[Axe]

I hate the PDZ character redesigns so much. I actually like Joanna with longer hair but everything else is just...ugh.

The funny thing is even in the original game her face looks completely different to her artwork. And in the Japanese version they made her Asian, so at this point I just pretend she's one of the Faceless Men.

 

[Nacery]

I really dislike all her designs so far. Too sexualized and childish. Maybe the image that appears in The Initiative logo is a tease of a new design (if the reboot news end up to be true)

 

[Nocturnowl]

I'm dying at new Carrington, how the heck have I never seen that?!

Finding out that Will overton had something to do with Zero Jo helps explain a few things, his perfect dark covers for N64 magazine were slick but that more casual Jo attire for zero ain't great, game has a distinctly more cartoony vibe and that doesn't work for me coming off the original.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

They both look 90s as fuck.

We need a modern redesign like RE3 Remake Jill

 

[Gundam]

I really dislike all her designs so far. Too sexualized and childish. Maybe the image that appears in The Initiative logo teases her new design (if the reboot news are true)

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Wait, is this an official image, not a fan-edit? That's almost straight-up just Akira.

 

[Nacery]

Wait, is this an official image, not a fan-edit? That's almost straight-up just Akira.

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I'm not actually sure but I've seen this a couple of times over internet

 

[Anthony Hopkins]

The character models are different

 

[CalamityPixel]

I really dislike all her designs so far. Too sexualized and childish. Maybe the image that appears in The Initiative logo is a tease of a new design (if the reboot news end up to be true)

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That's Akira lmao, just a fan edit

 

[theosmeo]

wow those old designs are jarring haha

i would love to see a new design but i dont want just a tanktop and jeans, even if i love jills new look in re3

everyones doing tanktop with jeans recently lol

 

[Nacery]

That's Akira lmao, just a fan edit

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Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com

Yes and no, its an official logo made by Eric Persson (Lead Concept artist at The Initiative) but it's based on an old concept art for kaneda. Now, I wouldn't dislike a more tomboyish approach for Johanna

 

[thepenguin55]

Honestly, her design was the one thing about that terrible game that I didn't hate. lol

 

[Billy Awesomo]

I hate how they kept trying to make it more "realistic" I personally liked the scraped design they had for her before they changed the art style I guess?

I liked the cartoonyer aspect more so than the "realism".

 

[CalamityPixel]

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com

Yes and no, its an official logo made by Eric Persson (Lead Concept artist at The Initiative) but it's based on an old concept art for kaneda.

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Ah cool, I always thought it was just a fan mock up made by an employees artstation piece.

 

[DanteSparda504]

Both designs are pretty bad.

 

[Bony Manifesto]

Perfect Dark should be the Splinter Cell we deserve (Or need?)

I enjoy the first game a lot, and think it had value for the market of the time. In 2020, I don't think we need Perfect Dark to be a FPS, but the setting and fanbase are established - If you want to make a game with a woman protag, set in a cyberpunk world, where she's a spy, and you own the Perfect Dark IP, the question kind of becomes... Why isn't it Perfect Dark?

I like Joanna's personality in the OG, and I don't want to throw out her entire character history, I just want to avoid using the PDZ design whatsoever.

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You seem to want such a small sliver of what Perfect Dark is though! The personality of Jo Dark (by which I presume you mean a suave Emma Peel or Modesty Blaise insouciance), but not her appearance. The concept of part of the game (the first few Blade Runner-ish levels), but not its gameplay.

The original Perfect Dark was one hell of a bumpy ride (refresh your memory by reading the synopsis on Wikipedia). The developers were clearly just throwing everything they saw in films that they thought was cool, and I think people forget about all the corny stuff because the first few levels were so good and they got to shoot the Robocop gun, the Terminator gun, and... uh, the gun from Eraser.

Plus I don't think the Perfect Dark fanbase is established at all! There was a grand total of three games released, with the most recent one releasing 15 years ago (to a very poor response from both fans and new players). A large part of the prospective audience for a new game wouldn't have been born when Perfect Dark Zero released, let alone the original game!

 

[Windu]

Both are very dated.

 

[Gundam]

You seem to want such a small sliver of what Perfect Dark is though! The personality of Jo Dark (by which I presume you mean a suave Emma Peel or Modesty Blaise insouciance), but not her appearance. The concept of part of the game (the first few Blade Runner-ish levels), but not its gameplay.

The original Perfect Dark was one hell of a bumpy ride (refresh your memory by reading the synopsis on Wikipedia). The developers were clearly just throwing everything they saw in films that they thought was cool, and I think people forget about all the corny stuff because the first few levels were so good and they got to shoot the Robocop gun, the Terminator gun, and the gun from Eraser.

Plus I don't think the Perfect Dark fanbase is established at all! There was a grand total of three games released, with the most recent one releasing 15 years ago (to a very poor response from both fans and new players). A large part of the prospective audience for a new game wouldn't have been born when Perfect Dark Zero released, let alone the original game!

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I played the game like last month (Rare Replay version) - It's good fun and rivals TimeSplitters 2 in it's sub-genre for the crown of that style of shooter.

PDZ and PD64 really only share that they are FPS - In terms of actual gameplay, they feel completely different. What I think PErfect Dark can offer a new game in 2020 is the style of mission design - A series of main objectives, supplemented by optional side-objectives. Combine that with something like a Hitman level structure, and I think you can have a proper nuPD that game-play wise occupies something there is more of a demand for, but calls back to the original.

I know some people don't like the X-Files aspect of Perfect Dark, but you can even keep that and I think it'd be alright. I think you underestimate the audience for Perfect Dark - While I don't think it's as anywhere near as hungry or active as Killer Instinct was pre-2013, I think it's an easy way to get a lot of eyes on the game that wouldn't have been there before. I don't think the whole-"an audience for a new game wouldn't have been born when PDZ came out" is as strong or relevant as a point as you play it up to be.

IIRC, I think PD64 sold a few million on the N64 and is often cited as one of the best games on the system. It has a history and a nostalgic fanbase can sort of hype up a new entry for new fans. I also think it benefits from some nostalgia-by-proxy thanks to Goldeneye 007, on account of them playing extremely similarly.

Like, to be 100% clear I am in no way trying to put Perfect Dark's fanbase on the level of say, Final Fantasy VII, but I'd wager a large portion of the Remake's audience did not play the original PS1 game. I just think it's more of a boon than not.

 

[verygooster]

Damn this outfit is 2005 as hell.

 

[Chromie]

The character models are different

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Man, this is a very 90's ass character.

 

[Gundam]

Damn this outfit is 2005 as hell.

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It's ok, I give you permission to say "Fuck"

Honestly, I forget that this is a 360 game.

 

[daTRUballin]

Rare's human character designs have generally been pretty bad in PDZ, Kinect Sports Rivals and Sea of Thieves. I can't believe they literally reused that ugly PDZ style for the humans in TWO other games. At least the ugly style suits the pirates in SoT, but still.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I kinda dig the red hair tbh

 

[Man Called Aerodynamics]

I don't necessarily hate it, but the PDZ design reads as "elf" more than "spy."

 

[Gundam]

Rare's human character designs have generally been pretty bad in PDZ, Kinect Sports Rivals and Sea of Thieves. I can't believe they literally reused that ugly PDZ style for the humans in TWO other games. At least the ugly style suits the pirates in SoT, but still.

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IDK about Kinect Sports but Sea of Thieves has a pretty distinctly different art style from PDZ. Both are still very "Rare", but I would not have ever thought that they looked the same, or even compatible.