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Do you think the huge installation files and updates are justified?

  • Yeah, I think it's a natural evolution. It's inevitable (Explain why)

    Votes: 62 62.0%
  • Developers exaggerate with the large installations. Far better compression is possible (Explain why)

    Votes: 38 38.0%

  • Total voters
    100
Mar 31, 2018
616
I'm noticing an evolution I don't like.

The installation files of games are getting bigger and bigger - Call of Duty Modern Warfare/Warzone already seems to be around 200 GB. This is ridiculous. Some people I know have to wait days to install those games. I have a 200GB Wi-Fi datacap for a month, and the only reason I need so much is because of those uncompressed games. I'm getting less and less inclined to buy games because of this.

The next generation, what to expect? Games of 300GB-400GB due to those 8K textures? This is not normal. In addition, some games require regular updates of many gigabytes.

Moreover, more and more games are GaaS. I have scarce time and play very irregularly. I don't follow those updates and if I can make time for gaming once every few weeks or months, I'm unpleasantly surprised with a time consuming update.

Do any of the AAA developers think about the many people with limited data caps, or even the people who don't have an internet connection (I didn't have one until 2014)? People without the Internet can't play most of the games, because nowadays there are almost no games with all the necessary files on a physical disc. Others already required an update to fix hundreds of bugs on the day of release or need some kind of account.

Is it really necessary to continuously force the best graphics, while this only results in bigger installation files, more development time needed and worse working conditions "crunching"?

Some sixth generation games look good enough if upscaled, if the artstyle is good. I could just play them without fuss, without forced updates and others. Nowadays, just about all my free time I have is swallowed up by updates. All that spent data for installation also comes at a high price.

We have to go back, this is one of the many consumer unfriendly practices that games now use.
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
21,466
Sweden
there should be some potential next generation where the SSDs make it so that you no longer need to have redundancy for frequently used assets on the disk to make loading them on slow-ass HDDs sufficiently fast

but, on the other hand, asset quality and asset diversity will likely go up as well, so overall install sizes will probably keep increasing anyway
 

Jarrod38

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,680
Was going to make a post about CoD download size. Will CoD be the first game for this gen to break 200GB?
 

HylianSeven

Shin Megami TC - Community Resetter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,073
I'm not going to answer either way, mainly because I'm not an expert on how the compression works or will pretend to be. But I think from purely a consumer perspective, the file sizes are getting pretty absurd and I think at the very least more compression techniques should be looked into. Given that many ISPs have data caps these days, only having the games you want to play at the moment installed becomes less and less of a viable option. I'm fortunate enough to have an ISP that does not have data caps. ARK Survival Evolved on PC grew to around 150GB for me last time I played it, and I took a break from it, so I uninstalled it. I might get back into it some day, and redownload it when I do that.
 

Deleted member 22750

Oct 28, 2017
13,267
I hate when they "copy"

sometimes games just download updates other times it downloads and copy for like 30 minutes instead of 5 min
 

Jsee80

Member
Nov 18, 2017
161
Yeah every couple weeks when I launch Uplay there goes some 10 gigs or whatever for Division 2 I haven't played in months.

It would be friendly if they didnt make me download expansion shit I'm not gonna buy. Whatever though, I'll keep this in mind with games I get from companies that do this.
 

Com_Raven

Brand Manager
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
1,103
Europa
Is it really necessary to continuously force the best graphics, while this only results in bigger installation files, more development time needed and worse working conditions "crunching"?

I think you can to a degree answer that question yourself by looking at reactions to even the smallest, least important visual glitches in any AAA game. It is what a lot of people in the gaming community definitely want.
 

DJwest

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,153
I'm not a dev so I'm not going to pretend that I know anything about programming and file sizes. There are two things however that greatly irritated me this gen:

1-Games like Street Fighter 5 that make you download the whole game all over again when they add a new DLC character or a stage. WTF?

2-Games like Doom 2016 for which I have zero interest whatsoever in the MP but with regular huge updates for the said MP. I really hope that the PS5 will allow for select downloads so that people can ignore the MP if they want to and download only the SP content.
 

Deleted member 12129

User requested account closure
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,021
I've made the switch to digital only for this gen and I have had to change my data plan on my home connection to accommodate that. The last couple of years I was running 120mbps down and unlimited bandwidth, nowadays I've moved up to gigabit since it became available in my area. I want to play COD with my buddies and the idea of not being able to play becasue a 30GB update hit in the middle of the day is so unappealing. I've been able to work around that with the infrastructure available to me but I'm sure I'm in the minority, most people just dont have that kind of speed or data cap available to them and it's odd that game companies don't take that into account.
 

Dorfdad

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
731
People will hate but this is why stadia and Psnow and project XCloud will continue to grow and are the future IMHO.
 
OP
OP
OrdinaryUsername
Mar 31, 2018
616
The thread is posed as a question, but really it's a declaration: you're upset because you have a data cap and are being left behind. So the framing of the discussion is misguided. It doesn't matter whether developers could use "better compression" or if it's a "natural evolution". Would a developer admitting they could make the file size smaller but they didn't to spite you make you feel better?



You're making this thread because in a reductive way, they don't care about these things. In a less reductive way, AAA game developers get more value out of being able to make games with large assets and update them like services with large patches or allow for the delay between going gold and physical release to get bugfixes or improvements in. Most purchases are now digital, most income is now digital, and publishers correctly see both of those numbers ticking up. Most publisher marketing is also via YouTubers and streamers now, another avenue not open to you if you have internet limitations. But that's where we are, whether you personally benefit from it or not. It's not "necessary" to "force" "the best graphics". It's what publishers and developers have chosen to do. This also isn't really all that different than liking genres of games that aren't being made anymore. It happens, and it sucks when the market and you don't see eye to eye.

Since this is not likely to change, only accelerate, and people have been complaining about file and patch sizes for 10 years now, the only real question is whether you will stop gaming, choose different games that are smaller, or upgrade your internet connection (maybe not an option depending on your geography or financial situation).
It's not that I'm angry because I have data caps. Not at all, I understand the benefits of updates - but nowadays almost all games do need them. Some online games have very little content at release and only get enough content after years. Why release incomplete games when you can postpone it. Battlefield V, for example, really had a lack of content at the launch and would benefit from a delay in release. Fixing updates is also a good thing - but if you need a day one patch to fix hundreds of bugs, I just have the impression that it was produced in a rushed way. Those updates are just so big, and I just think they could be better.

I know this is the workings of limitless capitalism. There are just a lot of people who suffer from it. I have fast internet, by my standards, and I pay around a hundred euros a month for it. A 200 GB data cap is plenty for most things, except gaming. Relatives have a much slower internet, as well as people who don't have it that broad. They are left behind.

I've been phasing out my gaming activities for years. I've spent less than ten hours on games during this year. It is no longer worthwhile to buy consoles and the many costs associated with it, such as increased electricity consumption, games, subscriptions to play online. If I will play games, nowadays it is via PC.
 

XSX

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,166
They need to allow us to "rip out" stuff we don't want. Single player/multiplayer modes, language packs etc...
 

RM8

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,906
JP
SSDs are basically what next gen is about. SSDs are very expensive. Games are getting ridiculously massive. Fun times ahead 😬
 

maximumzero

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,927
New Orleans, LA
I don't really have to deal with much of this as I only have a Switch of the current crop of hardware, but it'd certainly be nice to be given the options about what data I want installed. If I'm playing videogames at 720p I don't need the game to download 8k textures.
 

vatstep

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,498
I have Modern Warfare and Destiny 2 installed on an external SSD connected to my PS4. It helps a little with the "copying" phase but not as much as I was hoping it would (although that's not the reason I got it – the benefit is that it massively improves Destiny loading times). A new title update for either still takes about 20-25 minutes to complete after downloading, whereas on the internal drive it takes about 45 minutes.
 

SnakeXs

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,111
How hilariously fitting that a thread about large downloads also has posts about hating copying, ie a part of delta-updates, which reduce download sizes.
 

RM8

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,906
JP
I don't really have to deal with much of this as I only have a Switch of the current crop of hardware, but it'd certainly be nice to be given the options about what data I want installed. If I'm playing videogames at 720p I don't need the game to download 8k textures.
I have no idea how people can go all digital on Switch. Some games are just massive.
 

toy_brain

Member
Nov 1, 2017
2,207
People will hate but this is why stadia and Psnow and project XCloud will continue to grow and are the future IMHO.
Amen tho that!
Doesn't help if you have a data-cap, but for those of us that don't, it's amazing to have no installs or updates or storage space to worry about.
As games get bigger and bigger, and subscription services become more prevalent, streaming will only make more and more sense.
 

-Le Monde-

Avenger
Dec 8, 2017
12,613
I'm much more annoyed by games needing constant online connection.
I can put up with 15-20 minutes installations.
 

Starlatine

533.489 paid youtubers cant be wrong
Member
Oct 28, 2017
30,440
gamers: i want graphics with the fidelity of high budget cgi movies, 8k resolution, with few if none asset reuse and unique textures
also gamers: wtf why is this download size so big
 

lazygecko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,628
It's not just something you can chalk down to stuff like compression rates or fidelity. A lot of it plain just comes down to developers no longer being forced to optimize the workflow and systems in which they create, distribute and manage assets in efficient ways since there's no physical hard ceiling on storage to abide by. This has basically led to development practices that would have been considered comically inefficient in the era of physical media.

For instance I often come across identical assets that have been duplicated at several instances when I'm rummaging around inside data archives of modern games. I've asked around as to why this is being done, and the only explanation I've gotten is that this method can help cut down on loading times when stuff like models and sounds are baked into the archives of each individual level they appear in, rather than having them be loaded from a global library. Doom 2016 did this, for instance. And I think I've noted at points that those gigabyte-sized patches people complain about also have a tendency to contain more duplicate assets for whatever reason.
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
53,141
I'm fine with large updates as long as they aren't constantly happening with a game. as long as the games keep getting bigger and better it's going to happen and that's just the way that it is. There is no way that game companies are just going to stop innovating and making things bigger and better.


This.


I couldn't care less about the size of the updates themselves but the constant copying every single time I update a game is infuriating.
 

Undrey

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,648
Definitely agreed. Been a huge problem for me this gen. I've had my internet die because I'd forgotten to space out a game download over weeks.
 

mrmoose

Member
Nov 13, 2017
21,201
I have no idea how people can go all digital on Switch. Some games are just massive.
Nintendo is pretty great about file sizes for their games. 3rd party AAA, not so much. NBA 2k, the Witcher, it's almost an added bonus to just get the physical version.

Honestly this is one of the reasons I'm most excited for next gen lmao. No more long waits for copying when there's a new Destiny update (hopefully).

Aren't SSDs like not good for rewriting data over and over? Or is that no longer a limitation? Obviously speeds are premium but I thought that's usually why you install the OS (which hopefully won't change as much) on an SSD and files on another drive?
 

low-G

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,144
Assets getting larger and larger is completely inevitable for many, many years to come. Next gen 150GB won't even be that huge. More detailed and more numerous assets need bigger space. Compression can't magically crunch information, and we will constantly ride compression by how fast we can realistically decompress in real-timeish.

However, a very very long time from now we might actually get sophistical procedural assets, but we're talking 30 years + from now, if not 100+...

Plus there are always smaller scope games.
 

Cup O' Tea?

Member
Nov 2, 2017
3,603
Soon we'll be using consoles with nvme drives so long installation times will no longer be a thing. I guess updates are still dependent on the speed of your internet, so that will always be annoying for me.
 

grosvenor92

Member
Dec 2, 2017
1,886
It is annoying but games will only get bigger has time goes on. After getting the Division 2 I gave my brother my ps4 so he could download all the updates for me at his place. He has unlimited internet where as we don't.
 

wars

Member
Apr 26, 2020
1,208
Lisbon,Portugal
The space that Modern Warfare uses is ridiculous at this point , if the game is already almost 200GB in Season 3 will be what around Season 4/5? 300GB? As a player in a PS4 with only 500GB I'm shaking.
 

night814

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 29, 2017
15,040
Pennsylvania
The space that Modern Warfare uses is ridiculous at this point , if the game is already almost 200GB in Season 3 will be what around Season 4/5? 300GB? As a player in a PS4 with only 500GB I'm shaking.
It will likely cap at 2XX GB since the PS4 needs double the space to install the game after downloading. If it's more then 220-230 gbs a lot of PS4s wouldn't even be able to install a digital copy without plugging in an external HDD.

It's still crazy big though, I feel sorry for people with data caps
 

skeezx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,178
the only reason i won't buy modern warfare or re-install older CODs i quite enjoyed

but first world problems and such. i dunno how much i can really be pissed about it