This is true. On the sneaker market a large percentage are sold via the backdoor. The raffles retailers have no accountability at all. The raffles serve a purpose in directing traffic to the site and getting consumers to follow Instagram pages.
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I hate scalpers. Scum of the earth.
- Thread starter Lightning Count
- Start date
This is true. On the sneaker market a large percentage are sold via the backdoor. The raffles retailers have no accountability at all. The raffles serve a purpose in directing traffic to the site and getting consumers to follow Instagram pages.
It's definitely frustrating. I put in a lot of time and was lucky to score an XSX order from Microsoft's site at midnight on launch day. PS5 was harder, but finally got an order in at Costco.com around 10:30am on launch morning after staying up most of the night with no luck as other stores went live. Both were later shipments and were delivered late November.
I did end up giving up trying to score a Steelseries Arctis 7x headset and paid $50 extra or so on eBay. Just couldn't deal with all the audio dropouts I was getting on XSX with headphones plugged into my Elite V1 controller, especially with XSX getting more use than my PS5.
Anyway, I think scalping is just way worse this time due to the pandemic and most stores not doing any in-person, walk in sales. It's way harder for average folks to beat scalpers online as many of these people have their sole income from flipping things on eBay and are more able to jump on stock alerts instantly, have bots that snag a lot of the stock etc. In normal times people could just bother less with the online stores and just check their local stores at opening as many mornings a week as they are wiling and able until they score one. Demand is also probably higher than usual as people are stuck home and gaming more, those who are working remotely probably have more dispoable income from not traveling, dining out, going to concerts etc. during the pandemic.
I did end up giving up trying to score a Steelseries Arctis 7x headset and paid $50 extra or so on eBay. Just couldn't deal with all the audio dropouts I was getting on XSX with headphones plugged into my Elite V1 controller, especially with XSX getting more use than my PS5.
Anyway, I think scalping is just way worse this time due to the pandemic and most stores not doing any in-person, walk in sales. It's way harder for average folks to beat scalpers online as many of these people have their sole income from flipping things on eBay and are more able to jump on stock alerts instantly, have bots that snag a lot of the stock etc. In normal times people could just bother less with the online stores and just check their local stores at opening as many mornings a week as they are wiling and able until they score one. Demand is also probably higher than usual as people are stuck home and gaming more, those who are working remotely probably have more dispoable income from not traveling, dining out, going to concerts etc. during the pandemic.
Scalpers only exist because items MSRP is too low to calibrate with demand. They are not remotely the source of the problem. They basically aren't even a problem. Theyd completely disappear if retailers raised prices properly, supply was able to kick up, or if people stopped wanting the items.
The only problem I see is if they have differential access to restocks, which they kind of do as they are more sophisticated buyers. Easily solved with a lottery system.
At the end of the day. If an items retails for $1k and can be resold for $1500 in a heartbeat, even joe schmoe consumer is just going to sell it a decent amount of the time. The only fix if you want to cut out middlemen is to raise the price at the initial point of sale.
The only problem I see is if they have differential access to restocks, which they kind of do as they are more sophisticated buyers. Easily solved with a lottery system.
At the end of the day. If an items retails for $1k and can be resold for $1500 in a heartbeat, even joe schmoe consumer is just going to sell it a decent amount of the time. The only fix if you want to cut out middlemen is to raise the price at the initial point of sale.
Who is suggesting you return it to the person you purchased it from. You have a receipt, you call the manufacturer and you go through the warranty process. No one is returning their PS5 to retailers because they don't have stock to replace it. You're acting as if you wouldn't have any recourse and that someone would be stuck with a broken PS5. That's just not the case.
Scum? I'm sure some are yes. It's greed for the most part, not a business to support your family, so I have no time for them, and would never buy anything this way. I'm amazed by the desperation that leads people to pay way over retail prices, for something they could do without. As long as people demand these people will supply unless retailers somehow prevent it... and I guess they don't care either, as long as they're shifting the stock.
I could not disagree more. The issue isn't scalpers, it's people willing to pay over msrp. They are creating and actually demonstrating how much the consoles and video cards should be sold at. MSRP is set way to low for the market demand and supply situation right now. Vendors should just raise the msrp and cut the scalpers out imho.
In the case of this thread for PS5, XSX, GPUs, there is no cost to send to the manufacturer for repair/replacement, and you're probably never going to be able to return to the seller for replacement due to stock.
Ah, yes.
"It's not the abusers who are at fault, it's the abused for accepting the abuse!"
Chase it out of one argument, it just comes right back galloping into the next.
Yeah it's a weird situation atm
Low production, hampered logistics and lots of people sitting at home.
The actual value of a PS5 really is much higher than 500€, for a ton of people.
And I know lots of families are hurting financially atm But for white collar people working from home, income has been steady while they saved a ton of money (gas, travel, dining, events).
I was able to secure both a Series X and PS5 at cost but I have to brutally honest: I would have paid 800€ to scalper without blinking.
I don't need 300€ in my pockets right now, I need a PS5 to have sth to do while sitting at home all day, every day.
Guess that's the case for most people who buy these things off eBay.
It fits though, people who sell people's personal information are exploiting a flaw in the system and a demand of other people who will pay for that info.
You also have no option for a refund either. The loss of your consumer rights re. the responsibility of a retailer when buying through a lone scalper is a difference no matter if your manufacturers warranty remains intact. A scalper is not a retailer obliged to follow local consumer rights, and thus you have lost that protection, and are now reliant on the post. Personally I would always prefer to buy from a physical retailer that isn't going to disappear than some dodgy scalper.
Seriously. We have a thread on Etcetera detailing how Uighur women are currently being raped en masse in Chinese labor camps, and yet somehow scalpers are the "sCuM oF tHe EaRth." Whoever thinks this is living a very, very privileged life.
Not sure how it works where you are from but here (EU) all the rights of the initial buyer carry over to you, if you present a written contract.
So I guess the winning play would be to buy from a small time seller and spend that extra 5mins to fill out a contract form.
Now if the consoles are stolen or "fell off a truck" that's a different story.
I'd prefer buying from a retailer too, but at least with EBay buyers have all the protection. It's much riskier for sellers as eBay sides with the buyer nearly every time when it comes to refunds, shipments that don't show up etc. So if I do choose to buy something at a markup, like I did my 7x headset, I'll only go with eBay and not Craigslist etc. I feel pretty comortable eBay will give my my money back if it shows up broken or doesn't show up and after that I've got the manufacturer warranty when it's a new product.
That said, I think the headset is the only thing I've every paid scalper prices for, other than some slight markups on concert/sporting event tickets for sold out events anyway. My XSX was nigh unplayable with all the audio dropouts I was getting with headphones plugged into the controller and needing to game with headphones to not drive my wife nuts as she's usually working in the next room or sleeping upstairs above me when I game.
Markets are most efficient when they can use price to manage supply and demand. When the suppliers reject that, scalpers step in. They're not scammers; they provide a service that some people take advantage of, and others choose to stay in line, which by the way wastes time and energy when you could be playing games or jacking off. I was in that line so I know.
If you can find a scalper willing to do that, then great. To me the winning play is for retailers to act to stop people buying more than one per customer when they have limited stock of an insanely popular item by letting customers put themselves on a queue to have a chance to buy one. And, if not, for buyers to wait and buy such an expensive item from a legit seller at its actual price, but in that case I can see why people are annoyed at stock being bought up by people inserting themselves into the chain and flipping extra sales. Personally I have zero interest in either console, but I don't get the defence of scalping. The best thing to do about it is to complain to retailers that enable/encourage it, I guess.
Yes, being a scalper may make you somewhat biased in the "are scalpers the scum of the earth.
I have no (non-bannable) words for how fucked up this argument is, but let's start with the notion that "the appropriate price for something is whatever the richest person is willing to pay" is the kind of objectivist far-right bullshit by which millionaire sociopaths justify completely fucking up society and anyone that's not one of them.
Except some of us don't see paying higher prices for a game abuse.
"Abusers".
You can live without a PS5. You'll make it, somehow.
But that 'service' they are offering is while massively restricting the supply for anyone else to buy at a sane price. They aren't making it easier for anyone, they are making it harder for everyone and making sure only the people willing and able to pay an insanely inflated price are able to take advantage of it. That aspect alone means they'll always be scammers to me.
There are many way to get a PS5 or Xbox Series X for MSRP, you just have to join these scalpers.
There are a lot of discord channels where bots will alert users on consoles or PC parts. I have successfully bought two PS5s with it, and have seen Xbox Series X and RTX 3xxx in my cart dozens of times before I say "Nah, I'm good".
There are a lot of discord channels where bots will alert users on consoles or PC parts. I have successfully bought two PS5s with it, and have seen Xbox Series X and RTX 3xxx in my cart dozens of times before I say "Nah, I'm good".
Some of the takes here are a marvel to be hold. People can't even agree scalpers suck without a "Sure, but..."
No one's saying (or should be saying) not being able to get a PS5 is akin to an atrocity. But it certainly sucks, and scalpers exacerbate the issue.
No one's saying (or should be saying) not being able to get a PS5 is akin to an atrocity. But it certainly sucks, and scalpers exacerbate the issue.
Yes, we really should not be discussing literally anything as long as a bigger problems exist. Mods, please close the thread until bigotry is solved.
I will readily admit I didn't wake up this morning expecting to read "well at least they're not slavers and rapists" as an argument to defend scalpers.
That's the way to go IMO. Hell, I got luck enough to get near launch orders in and somewhat regret spending the time and effort it took. I've nearly exclusively played last gen games via BC or cross gen games I could have played on my PS4 pro or aging PC anyway. Got in the hype cycle after finally getting a 4K HDR TV and wanting new consoles to show it off. Money wise, not a regret since I paid MSRP and would want them by late this year at the latest anyway and there won't be any price drops. But I spent a lot of time following twitter alerts etc. hoping to get a late preorder in and then little sleep on launch nights (especially PS5's) trying to get a launch day order in that doesn't really seem worth it in hindsight.
I think it's they hyperbole of the thread title. There are much, much things worst than scalpers and not being able to get a console or Graphics card.
You're putting words in the poster's mouth. It's not what the richest person is willing to pay for it, it's what the MARKET is willing to pay for it. The current MSRP is set as if there is enough supply to get through the demand which isn't the case. And it is NOT that there would be enough for everyone if the scalpers didn't exist, scalpers need a product where demand and supply are nowhere close to equilibrium for this to work.
If tomorrow, some scalpers were fucking people over food or water, i'd be the first to wish them the worst things on Earth.
But for a PS5 or a GeForce ? Lol nah. Good for them if they can make some bucks on people that can't wait a few months.
The matter could be resolved within' hours if the websites / stores and the manufacturers were willing to fix it.
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Think we need to give retailers a break here.
I remember how Switch, X1 and PS4 were available for pre order at least a couple of days before they were sold out.
Think the stores are just as annoyed as consumers with the current situation.
If things stay like this, I'm sure they will adapt like Supreme, Apple or Nike with better systems for selling launch stuff.
We are dealing with a situation where tens of thousands, if not more, people have been willing to pay over msrp. That's not a millionaire overspending for something, that's an entire market willing to pay over msrp. When you start dealing with those level of numbers, that's an underpriced product breaking supply and demand balance and the reseller market comes into existence to fix the market imbalance. The way you fix a market imbalance like that if you are the supplier is by raising prices when supply is constrained like it is now.
Typically console vendors don't do this because the demand and supply balance out in a few months and the msrp is good for years after that. This sn't happening this time because covid is keeping demand sky high and manufacturing pipelines can only make so many products. There are not infinite video cards and consoles, so prices will inevitably go up.
I think it's fair to say the problem is two fold, as long as bots were not used or other shady practices (like those missing amazon orders for example) and it doesn't breach any of the countries laws I personally don't mind a reseller selling the item at whatever price they want, I certainly wouldn't pay more than retail for a console but that's the sellers right unfortunate as it is,
The issue stems in part because demand far outweighs supply, sure those who buy just to sell higher aren't helping but if they are doing so without use of bots or other shady schemes the effect would be minimal,
Better systems to detect and avoid bots should be common place and at that point it's up to the manufacturers of non-essential goods to decide if they should make more product, after all they have the most to lose from not being able to.
At the end of the day the new consoles will become more readily available with time, there's definitely room for improvement on this and I hope action is taken where possible, but a free market can only restrict so much.
The issue stems in part because demand far outweighs supply, sure those who buy just to sell higher aren't helping but if they are doing so without use of bots or other shady schemes the effect would be minimal,
Better systems to detect and avoid bots should be common place and at that point it's up to the manufacturers of non-essential goods to decide if they should make more product, after all they have the most to lose from not being able to.
At the end of the day the new consoles will become more readily available with time, there's definitely room for improvement on this and I hope action is taken where possible, but a free market can only restrict so much.
There's a sickness among people scalping. People with high incomes (based on the location of pick up) and families and busy lives are going out of their way to scalp game systems for 10 to 20% profit.
It's bizzare, a game in itself.
It's bizzare, a game in itself.
Getting more back on topic, IMO the only way the scalping issue around console launches will be alleviated is if Sony, MS and Nintendo take it into their own hands. Consoles don't really make profit for retail stores, so they don't have much incentive beyond earning some customer loyalty to spend time and money thwarting scalpers and bots.
The console makers due as they want people on their consoles, spending money on their services and buying digital games in their stores. Consoles sitting in scalpers houses until they sell for a high mark up delays that. If I were them, the next time around I'd do preorders way (6 months minimum) in advance, do them only through the store on current gen consoles and only two the paid subscribers to their services. That gives their most loyal customers, and the ones most important to their bottom lines, an easy way to upgrade to next gen at launch and will take a decent chunk out of launch demand and hopefully keep scalper prices down a bit so many give up sooner.
GPUs is tougher as Nvidia and AMD aren't selling games or online gaming subuscriptions so they have less reason to care whether they sell to a customer who'll use it or a scalper who'll flip. The console makers should care as they want that subscription cash, 30% cut on third party games bought in their stores etc. ASAP and need to find ways to get consoles in paying gamers' houses as soon as possible each generation to keep the cash rolling.
The console makers due as they want people on their consoles, spending money on their services and buying digital games in their stores. Consoles sitting in scalpers houses until they sell for a high mark up delays that. If I were them, the next time around I'd do preorders way (6 months minimum) in advance, do them only through the store on current gen consoles and only two the paid subscribers to their services. That gives their most loyal customers, and the ones most important to their bottom lines, an easy way to upgrade to next gen at launch and will take a decent chunk out of launch demand and hopefully keep scalper prices down a bit so many give up sooner.
GPUs is tougher as Nvidia and AMD aren't selling games or online gaming subuscriptions so they have less reason to care whether they sell to a customer who'll use it or a scalper who'll flip. The console makers should care as they want that subscription cash, 30% cut on third party games bought in their stores etc. ASAP and need to find ways to get consoles in paying gamers' houses as soon as possible each generation to keep the cash rolling.
Yes. It's beyond frustrating. I'm currently in desperate need of a GPU, a 1650 or 1660 Super, because my current PC is not capable of handling Photoshop properly because I have an APU (Ryzen 3, 2200G) and not a single online store here in Mexico has them available. Fucking scalpers bought them all and they are selling them for double the price in places like Facebook or Mercado Libre. It's ridiculous that a 1660 Super is currently selling for the price of an RTX 3070, sometimes even more.
You say they are making it harder for everyone... but not the people that buy from scalpers. All they have to do is enter in credit card info into ebay and press buy. They didn't have to have Tweetdeck with five different console stock alerts running, or stay up from 3-5am anticipating a late night Target drop, or deal with the Walmart deer after the PS5 that disappeared from their cart, or feel pushed toward buying a GameStop bundle with a bunch of shit you don't want, or waiting for a PSDirect drop one day because it always comes that day but it never comes... only a tiny percentage of people who bought via scalpers would've gotten them as quickly had there been no scalping.
Snoring here.
Your point is the lowest hanging fruit. It has been discussed through and through on previous pages.
Just go back and read perhaps?
You might see yourself as some kind of genius, but maybe don't jump into a 5 pages thread with your very first thought believing "you cracked it, it's done". You're on a discussion forum, chances are other people already said everything you felt relevant pertaining to this discussion.
Best case scenario, you read up and have a decently formulated idea to oppose and we can take it from there.
The above applies to you too.
Incorrect: it's what the richest x% of the market is willing to pay for them. All scalpers do is make sure these consoles go to the highest bidder; at that point, you may as well auction them individually. People that can't afford scalper prices are left out.
Blaming Sony for wanting their console to have a reasonable price for everyone, rather than the scalpers making sure only affluent people can afford them, and justifying it all with "market forces" as if scalpers had no moral responsibility whatsoever, is a ridiculously laissez-faire capitalistic view of the situation.
Never said everything nor would I presume to. Where it is appropriate government should step in and regulate. I just don't think this is one of those instances. For example, the two brothers from NYC scalping face masks were arrested and their stock was confiscated simply by enforcing current laws. The only people being hurt by the current scalping of consoles are wealthy fools willing being parted from their money.
There is a clear shortage of goods that fails to meet demand even without scalpers being present. Let's put it this way, the people currently buying from the scalpers would be competing for the same number of consoles with the people currently left out in the cold. The net result is still the same, just less money exchanging hands, ie the privilege of the rich to cut in line.
The real estate example is not the same scenario, landlords do provide a service. You might not like the exhorbinant rent prices but that typically is a failure of your local government to regulate or do their jobs and allow more housing to be built.
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I mean, I consider something being rarer unless I want to pay several hundred pounds more because someone has inserted themselves into the supply chain, and thus made those available at the regular price even scarcer and out of stock more quickly, as having made it harder to buy at its actual price, yeah. They are only 'providing a service' to specifically wealthy people who can afford the new artificially inflated price. That's not a good thing.
They aren't 'providing a service' to the wider market, they are making a popular item even more scarce at the price it's manufacturer is selling them for by making sure only the wealthy can afford them. It's a racket.
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It's hilarious and telling that you posit "prices will inevitably go up" as an universal truth when the actual situation is "prices will go up because of these very scalpers exacerbating the artificial scarcity and causing prices to go up". That's what scalpers do.
Stop painting scalpers as an inevitable force of physics with no say or moral obligation in the matter; nobody is buying it except other scalpers seeking validation.
Spot on with the ableist language.
So a grandma falling for a scam, in your opinion, is also "a fool being parted with their money " I guess?
How do you define a fool?
You say "actual price," but that's a nebulous concept. PS5 was announced at $499. What if the actual price was $299 or $899? PS5 or some other model will eventually cost less than what it costs now. Does that mean $499 was never the PS5's ACTUAL price and it was Sony who is scalping everyone all along?
There's no price that you're owed to get a scarce resource for. You're either paying higher prices or longer wait times, and I think people should prefer the former.
Just because it is the lowest hanging fruit doesn't make it any less true. When you're talking about re-selling consumer electronics, I can't bring myself to care. Evidently many others feel the same.
I don't see myself as some kind of genius, but clearly you think you've made some kind of breakthrough here- You're also trotting out old tired arguments and pretending you've stumbled onto something profound. You really haven't.
'Decently formulated idea'. When you craft one, come back and talk to me.
That's the way to go indeed. I am not going to spend time looking at Twitter (I don't have a Twitter anyway) the hell with following that shit, any social media. I'll wait until late this year to buy a non-bundled PS5 and Series X, and only the games that I really want.
Everything else is just not worth the money+time/effort.