I hate scalpers. Scum of the earth.

[Deleted member 24097]

Show me one country where the resale of luxury goods is illegal.

Click to shrink...

ダフ屋 - Wikipedia

ja.wikipedia.org

The resale of tickets in Japan isn't solely a felony, it is straight up a crime.
"Luxury goods" to speak about mass-produced items that are targeted at being sold as much as possible is nothing but a ludicrous term only the stupidest of humans would use to justify their theft.

Firstly, whether something is illegal or not doesn't inform my view on whether something is morally permissable or not.

Click to shrink...

The word you're looking for is "permissible". But then again I'm not a native English speaker.
Just a quick question: what does inform you on morals?

Do you believe the lack of laws on hate speech in the USA make it OK to spit out racial slurs?

Secondly, you have to make the argument for why arbitraging a non-essential luxury product that will be available at MSRP down the line is immoral. I reject the notion that society has a moral obligation to distribute a non-essential entertainment product equitably to all social strata via legislation. Especially if by waiting everyone who can afford the $500 MSRP will get it at that price. It's just asinine.

Click to shrink...

Ah, yes. It is on the receiving end of something that is clearly and obviously an abuse to explain "why" and "how", right.

It is immoral because these people are out of the circuit to begin with. They did not participate in producing the goods. They are just leeching off the back of people who would like to buy them when they have time.
It is really, very simple actually.

 

[fade]

It's capitalism working as it's meant to, manufactured scarcity is the core of pretty much every major industry. Consider directing your frustrations towards the system if it really bothers you that much.

Click to shrink...

This. People who are saying this is victim blaming are victim blaming themselves. Every person, the retailer, the scalper, the buyer are all playing the part a capitalistic society are dictating. The retailer is taking advantage of no regulation and has no desire to restrict who and how many to get one as long as they sell their lot, the scalper is taking advantage of their skill/time to get one over the layman which seems to be something worthwhile considering the market value right now, and the buyer with extra money to burn is taking advantage of his wealth to get one before others in his same predicament due to his lack of time/effort/knowledge in getting one at retail.

There are literally thousands of discords filled with thousands of people spending day and night on their computers trying and succeeding at getting PS5s and 3080s. ERA even has one. There are hundreds of success stories from people willing to put in the time. Scalpers have admitted to using them to get the products without the knowledge of procuring and setting up bots. Not everyone has the time or patience to do that right now. No one is forcing anyone to buy it and if they simply stopped the item would not be scalped anymore.

 

[Kyle Cross]

As usual, two-faced fucks in droves defending scalping "because in the end it's the buyers' fault".
Victim blaming 101. Well done, you pieces of shit.

Scalpers perform something that is illegal in most countries and deserve appropriate punishment. Period.
Not the death penalty, but hefty fines.
Not one single of their "justifications" hold.

Click to shrink...

Victim blaming? It's fucking luxury products people are buying at up charged prices because they don't want to wait to play video games.

Some of y'all are losing your damn minds...

 

[Ouroboros]

I sold like 5 Wii's on eBay when they came out. I was in college and having that extra money was great. I have no regrets.
People who are doing it and need the money I'm ok with. People who do it just to reap profit for profit sake. Nah.

 

[wartime]

Even if there were zero scalpers, a lot of people still wouldn't be able to get the console(s) they wanted. The blame for that is with Sony/MS for drumming up demand while not having the supply to back it up.

 

[Zombegoast]

I'd be pretty upset if my government wasted time and resources on such an unimportant non-issue. There is waaaaaay bigger fish to fry than trying to regulate and enforce the 30% markup on luxury goods by scalpers. If this was something like medicine or essential gear like PPE, then I'd 100% agree... but we're talking about PS5s.

Click to shrink...

We have the FTC for this. But they hardly do anything when Amazon does something that harms businesses on their site and having the chairman being a republican by Trump may have something to do with it.

 

[Redcrayon]

What happens when someone buys from a scalper and the product turns out to be faulty and needs replacement /repair? That's another issue I have with the 'it's just supply/demand' argument, that it offers no protection for the consumer that they would have through a legitimate retail business, as they are effectively buying second hand goods with none of the warranty intact. 'I gave Timmy the scalper a grand in the McDonald's car park' generally isn't accepted as proof of a 'new' purchase.

 

[Shodan14]

ダフ屋 - Wikipedia

ja.wikipedia.org

The resale of tickets in Japan isn't solely a felony, it is straight up a crime.
"Luxury goods" to speak about mass-produced items that are targeted at being sold as much as possible is nothing but a ludicrous term only the stupidest of humans would use to justify their theft.

Click to shrink...

The resale of tickets is indeed regulated in a number of countries. I don't see how that's relevant here. But do keep moving the goalposts.

 

[Lightning Count]

What happens when someone buys from a scalper and the product turns out to be faulty and needs replacement /repair? That's another issue I have with the 'it's just supply/demand' argument, that it offers no protection for the consumer that they would have through a legitimate retail business, as they are effectively buying second hand goods with none of the warranty intact. 'I gave Timmy the scalper a grand in the McDonald's car park' generally isn't accepted as proof of a 'new' purchase.

Click to shrink...

Yeah.

Unless you get the original receipt with it, you're pretty much up shit creek if you buy a console from a scalper and it breaks.

Even then there is no guarantee they will honour the warranty.

The cons far outweigh the pros when buying from scalpers.

I'm just going to wait and hopefully get it when stocks are replenished

 

[Cru Jones]

What happens when someone buys from a scalper and the product turns out to be faulty and needs replacement /repair? That's another issue I have with the 'it's just supply/demand' argument, that it offers no protection for the consumer that they would have through a legitimate retail business, as they are effectively buying second hand goods with none of the warranty intact. 'I gave Timmy the scalper a grand in the McDonald's car park' generally isn't accepted as proof of a 'new' purchase.

Click to shrink...

You should always be getting the receipt from the person you purchased it from when you make the purchase.

 

[Classybro]

It's literally shocking and depressing the privilege in here. No you are not entitled to get any luxury item at the time and place and price if your choosing. It sucks sure but it's the price to pay. Nothing is wrong with it it's not immoral there shouldn't be regulation.

what I would say is the platform holders need to find a better distribution because they want consoles in the hands of gamers to make subscription and software sales.

Nvidia however are one and done for the most part scalpers don't effect them at all hell the scarcity may actually be a good marketing ploy for them.

 

[StereoVSN]

Tell me about it. I've been trying to get a physical copy of Atlier Ryza on Switch for months...

Click to shrink...

Clearly you are a luxury buyer and privileged person for wanting to spend $40 on a video game!

/s

 

[Redcrayon]

You should always be getting the receipt from the person you purchased it from when you make the purchase.

Click to shrink...

And when your credit card info and email doesn't match up with the account that is listed as having bought it? Scalpers aren't wholesalers or retailers, it's second hand goods and you have zero rights.

 

[Shodan14]

Clearly you are a luxury buyer and privileged person for wanting to spend $40 on a video game!

/s

Click to shrink...

This, but for real.

 

[EvilBoris]

Every person, the retailer, the scalper, the buyer are all playing the part a capitalistic society are dictating.

Click to shrink...

This.
Most of us will be working in jobs that are generating revenue as part of a capitalist society, our livelihoods are based upon some fairly basic premises of this type of stuff.
Getting angry over a videogame consoles seems so such a small scale and relatively harmless part of this system.
If you want to get angry about supply and demand issues, Why not get angry at property developers buying up housing stock to drive up prices for Normal humans instead?

 

[Cru Jones]

And when your credit card info and email doesn't match up with the account that is listed as having bought it? Scalpers aren't wholesalers or retailers, it's second hand goods and you have zero rights.

Click to shrink...

Are you taking about returning it to a retailer or sending it in for a manufacturer's warranty?

I guess all those people that receive them as Christmas and birthday gifts are just completely out of luck when a warranty issue comes up... /s

 

[Deleted member 24097]

The resale of tickets is indeed regulated in a number of countries. I don't see how that's relevant here. But do keep moving the goalposts.

Click to shrink...

Ticket is just the first one that came up.
Every resale that is aimed at making a straight profit off unused items is illegal in Japan, period.

転売はすべて違法？ 逮捕されるケースや刑罰について弁護士が解説

副業としても人気の「転売」ですが、それ自体は違法行為ではありません。しかし、法律に違反した場合は処罰の対象になるので注意が必要です。この記事では、転売の際に違法行為と見なされるケースや、逮捕された場合の刑罰について弁護士が解説します。

kanazawa.vbest.jp

Just admit you are an asshole and let's be done with it. You are the one moving the goalposts here, not me.

Oh and by the way, replying to this message will cost you USD15.

 

[Lightning Count]

Even if there were zero scalpers, a lot of people still wouldn't be able to get the console(s) they wanted. The blame for that is with Sony/MS for drumming up demand while not having the supply to back it up.

Click to shrink...

No, the blame lies with scalpers because they are artificially creating stock shortages by buying up all the stock in bulk so they can drive up demand.

 

[RPGam3r]

I love the rationalizing scalpers do to make themselves feel better. Blaming people for wanting something, not being patient to wait (oh the irony of this one, considering a good percentage of people waiting are doing so bc of scalpers) etc.

Fuck outta here with that noise. You took advantage of people to make money. If you're cool with that then so be it, but don't try to paint it with any other brush.

 

[Deleted member 13328]

I don't really have it in me to be upset over people selling things for profit, there is a market for it so why not.

 

[RPGam3r]

It's capitalism working as it's meant to, manufactured scarcity is the core of pretty much every major industry. Consider directing your frustrations towards the system if it really bothers you that much.

Click to shrink...

Are you really trying to argue that during a pandemic there was intentional scarcity on these products? Really?

 

[Zombegoast]

At best the FTC would fine you for using bots to Scalp. Paying only $3 million after making $26 million on reselling tickets

FTC fines three ticket scalping companies for illegally using bots

It’s the first time the BOTS Act has been enforced.

www.theverge.com

This.
Most of us will be working in jobs that are generating revenue as part of a capitalist society, our livelihoods are based upon some fairly basic premises of this type of stuff.
Getting angry over a videogame consoles seems so such a small scale and relatively harmless part of this system.
If you want to get angry about supply and demand issues, Why not get angry at property developers buying up housing stock to drive up prices for Normal humans instead?

Click to shrink...

Why not the whole thing? There's more than one person looking into fraud

 

[Deleted member 2834]

This.
Most of us will be working in jobs that are generating revenue as part of a capitalist society, our livelihoods are based upon some fairly basic premises of this type of stuff.
Getting angry over a videogame consoles seems so such a small scale and relatively harmless part of this system.
If you want to get angry about supply and demand issues, Why not get angry at property developers buying up housing stock to drive up prices for Normal humans instead?

Click to shrink...

I mean you can obviously get mad about both, except the latter issue can have a substantial impact on people's lives (being priced out of moving into a place that offers them better economic opportunity for instance) whereas you can just wait for the PS5 supply to stabilize. A house is also technically a unique product with a monopoly on the land it's build on. Every PS5 is the same.

 

[DrDarkStryfe]

And when your credit card info and email doesn't match up with the account that is listed as having bought it? Scalpers aren't wholesalers or retailers, it's second hand goods and you have zero rights.

Click to shrink...

Have you never received a gift before that you had to return?

 

[arcticxdeath]

I don't see how anyone can justify making life worse for others by artificially raising prices on things, luxury or not, as anything but pretty scummy. Sure, maybe it put food on your plate in college, but you should blame the lack of social systems in place, not praise a scummy practice.

And guy who got a "free" 3090, etc, and is proud about it, you're an awful person.

 

[Cru Jones]

I don't see how anyone can justify making life worse for others by artificially raising prices on things, luxury or not, as anything but pretty scummy. Sure, maybe it put food on your plate in college, but you should blame the lack of social systems in place, not praise a scummy practice.

And guy who got a "free" 3090, etc, and is proud about it, you're an awful person.

Click to shrink...

I think the point a lot of people are trying to make us that you're getting really upset and forming opinions of people on something pretty minor in the grand scheme of things.

I'm right there with you on this issue if we are talking about life saving drugs, food, water, safety equipment, etc. You know, things that are really important for people to have... but you're saying that a person is awful because they resold a PS5, graphics card, etc. and in my opinion you're being super dramatic about something that does NOT matter. Say it with me, it's a LUXURY good!

 

[JahIthBer]

Might have to set up a script to snag a 3060 from one of my online retailers, otherwise i will miss out again, shit sucks.

 

[wartime]

No, the blame lies with scalpers because they are artificially creating stock shortages by buying up all the stock in bulk so they can drive up demand.

Click to shrink...

So if there were zero scalpers, 4.5M PS5s would have been enough to sate demand?

 

[StereoVSN]

I think the point a lot of people are trying to make us that you're getting really upset and forming opinions of people on something pretty minor in the grand scheme of things.

I'm right there with you on this issue if we are talking about life saving drugs, food, water, safety equipment, etc. You know, things that are really important for people to have... but you're saying that a person is awful because they resold a PS5, graphics card, etc. and in my opinion you're being super dramatic about something that does NOT matter. Say it with me, it's a LUXURY good!

Click to shrink...

Is it though? These are the same people who resold hand sanitizer and masks in the spring of 2020 as pandemic hit. Was that also a luxury good? I mean all we are talking about is also meeting supply and demand, right?

 

[ngower]

I've bought three PS5s and three XSX. One PS5 for myself, one for my nephew at cost, one for a friend at cost. One XSX for a nephew at cost, one for someone here at cost. I'm selling the last one for a slight scalper price ($125 profit) because I lost money on shipping and taxes and what not on the others. So while the vast majority of scalpers are scum there are some folks on there who aren't being super nefarious.

 

[Deleted member 2834]

ダフ屋 - Wikipedia

ja.wikipedia.org

The word you're looking for is "permissible". But then again I'm not a native English speaker.
Just a quick question: what does inform you on morals?

Click to shrink...

Great question actually. Let me keep it short: I believe a moral society is one that offers equal opportunity to every individual to increase one's happiness (which I believe is closely tied to economic opportunity). For instance, I would consider it immoral to scalp medicin like insulin, food, products or services regarding education and possibly other essential goods I can't think of off the top of my head (housing is a little more complicated). Those should be readily available to every individual and if the free market can't provide that, I advocate for legislative regulation. As for luxury products, I consider the damage done to those who can't afford them negligible and therefore not immoral. The only problem with scalping PS5s is that you might have to wait for it become available at the price you want it. I fail to see how that's immoral. You can live and thrive without that product. It doesn't in any shape or form interfer with what I consider the core tenants of a moral society. It's not a resource that has to be distributed equitably.

Do you believe the lack of laws on hate speech in the USA make it OK to spit out racial slurs?

Click to shrink...

No and that is consistent with my previous position. Whether something is lawful or not in some place on earth is irrelevant to me when it comes to assessing its morality.

It is immoral because these people are out of the circuit to begin with. They did not participate in producing the goods. They are just leeching off the back of people who would like to buy them when they have time.
It is really, very simple actually.

Click to shrink...

Your problem seems to be that you don't value the service offered by scalpers. As I said before, they basically secure you a place in a queue. You pay them extra so they can secure you a console that you would have otherwise likely not gotten, as the distribution is either first-come-first-serve or more likely up to chance give how laggy the online stores were at launch. Either way, if you're in no position to F5 Amazon at midnight, the scalper offers a valuable service to you if you're willing to pay their price. The result is that scalpers redistribute consoles among those with a higher willingness to pay (which is likely tied to higher income) creating somewhat of an inequality among PS5 owners, but I already explained why I don't care about it.

 

[Cru Jones]

Is it though? These are the same people who resold hand sanitizer and masks in the spring of 2020 as pandemic hit. Was that also a luxury good? I mean all we are talking about is also meeting supply and demand, right?

Click to shrink...

No they aren't the same people... you're really grasping at straws here. Many places have laws on hoarding and reselling ESSENTIAL goods. Are you arguing that a PS5 is an essential good?

 

[StereoVSN]

No they aren't the same people... you're really grasping at straws here. Many places have laws on hoarding and reselling ESSENTIAL goods. Are you arguing that a PS5 is an essential good?

Click to shrink...

It's not, but it's the same idea. If somebody is botting to resell PS5s or GPUs or Sneakers, I don't see why that person wouldn't buy up and resell some N95 masks.

 

[arcticxdeath]

I think the point a lot of people are trying to make us that you're getting really upset and forming opinions of people on something pretty minor in the grand scheme of things.

I'm right there with you on this issue if we are talking about life saving drugs, food, water, safety equipment, etc. You know, things that are really important for people to have... but you're saying that a person is awful because they resold a PS5, graphics card, etc. and in my opinion you're being super dramatic about something that does NOT matter. Say it with me, it's a LUXURY good!

Click to shrink...

Thing is, I don't care. It's still shit.

 

[Ikuu]

It's not, but it's the same idea. If somebody is botting to resell PS5s or GPUs or Sneakers, I don't see why that person wouldn't buy up and resell some N95 masks.

Click to shrink...

Because there's a massive difference between a PS5 and essential goods like masks.

 

[Lightning Count]

So if there were zero scalpers, 4.5M PS5s would have been enough to sate demand?

Click to shrink...

You're missing the point entirely.

 

[Cru Jones]

Thing is, I don't care. It's still shit.

Click to shrink...

That's a great argument built on a really strong foundation. You've completely swayed my opinion on the matter.

 

[julia crawford]

I think the point a lot of people are trying to make us that you're getting really upset and forming opinions of people on something pretty minor in the grand scheme of things.

I'm right there with you on this issue if we are talking about life saving drugs, food, water, safety equipment, etc. You know, things that are really important for people to have... but you're saying that a person is awful because they resold a PS5, graphics card, etc. and in my opinion you're being super dramatic about something that does NOT matter. Say it with me, it's a LUXURY good!

Click to shrink...

They are still shit people though. They are still potentially taking advantage of other people and care an absolute zero for it. They are still trying to act as though apathy is not only justification enough but a reasonable expectation that people should have to take advantage of anyone willing to spend.

 

[Lightning Count]

I think the point a lot of people are trying to make us that you're getting really upset and forming opinions of people on something pretty minor in the grand scheme of things.

I'm right there with you on this issue if we are talking about life saving drugs, food, water, safety equipment, etc. You know, things that are really important for people to have... but you're saying that a person is awful because they resold a PS5, graphics card, etc. and in my opinion you're being super dramatic about something that does NOT matter. Say it with me, it's a LUXURY good!

Click to shrink...

It's still a shitty and scummy practice, no matter how you try and justify it.

 

[orava]

It's still a shitty and scummy practice, no matter how you try and justify it.

Click to shrink...

They aren't trying to justify it. Just put it in a perspective.

 

[Cru Jones]

They are still shit people though. They are still potentially taking advantage of other people and care an absolute zero for it. They are still trying to act as though apathy is not only justification enough but a reasonable expectation that people should have to take advantage of anyone willing to spend.

Click to shrink...

I really need a well thought out explanation of how this is taking advantage of someone.

 

[Redcrayon]

Have you never received a gift before that you had to return?

Click to shrink...

I have, and had a gift receipt, and it wasn't a piece of electronics worth several hundred pounds. Are you saying it wouldn't be more irritating than actually having bought it from an actual retailer? Nobody wants their purchase to be seen as a 'gift', they just want to be able to buy the things without having an intermediary grab it via a bot, skim off the top and then the purchaser having to lie about it being a gift and not a second-hand sale if something goes wrong.

 

[heathen earth]

There really is a defense force for everything. This forum is wild.

That being said, I can't hate them personally. While the scalpers' actions are distasteful to me, they are operating according to logical self-interest and material conditions in a capitalist society. Would I like to have a PS5? Hell yeah I would! But I don't need it. I'll get one when the fervor dies down, whether that be tomorrow or 2023.

 

[Lightning Count]

They aren't trying to justify it. Just put it in a perspective.

Click to shrink...

Just keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel any better.

 

[Redcrayon]

Are you taking about returning it to a retailer or sending it in for a manufacturer's warranty?

I guess all those people that receive them as Christmas and birthday gifts are just completely out of luck when a warranty issue comes up... /s

Click to shrink...

If you want to return it to the seller for an exchange as it's more convenient/less costly than sending to the manufacturer, is your scalper really going to offer the same service as a retailer or a friend/family member that loves you enough to give you such a huge gift? Sure they will. /s

 

[boi]

You know what is fucking disgusting as well, retailers jacking up the price. I'm seeing it here all over Europe.

 

[GalvoAg]

Yeah it's scummy but par of the corse for get rich quick schemers. Luckily I defeated them this time and shared the love with friends at cost on a couple PS5's I got at launch, still don't know how I managed to get a 3080.

 

[VivaciousSoul]

I was looking for a console for a little while and then I gave up and the urge to get one hasn't risen again since. I'm also still playing games from the gen before last gen. Heavy Rain is next. Can't imagine when I'll get to the latest Yakuza or Hitman but I've got nothing but patience for scalpers.

 

[Raiden]

Scum of the earth is a bit rough. It's exploiting us needy nerds who can't wait for some luxury.

I had to wait months for my 3090, but I just did something else in the meantime.

 

[orava]

Just keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel any better.

Click to shrink...

You should work on your reading comprehension skills.