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Deleted member 26156

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 30, 2017
1,579
Since we now have nothing better to do, me and some friends have started doing group streams with various games, mainly Gamecube ones. We've done DK Jungle Beat, Super Monkey Ball 2, Super Mario Sunshine, Wario World, and most recently... the Mario Galaxy games!

We started off with 100%-ing Super Mario Galaxy 2, including all the Green Stars and The Perfect Run. We all had decently good memories of it, despite it having been a few years since any of us have played it, but after it was all said and done... we were very underwhelmed. Its levels all feel really short and didn't have much interesting level design, there was way too many 2D sections, it barely made use of the space theme, and the Green Stars were a massive slog to get through. Its still a fun game, but far from the legacy that Super Mario Galaxy left...

...right?...

Needless to say, we weren't really sure how things would go going into SMG1 after its sequel. Perhaps the game wasn't as good as we remembered?

We've gotten about 80 stars now and... this game is still really amazing! Its levels have a lot more substance to them, mostly due to being somewhat more open than Galaxy 2's intense linearity. With some galaxies have 6 or 7 stars, a lot more is able to be done with then that the 2-3 that every Galaxy was in 2. No, Green Stars are not real stars. They feel really half-heartedly added, often require annoying leaps of faith (hello Flipsville Green Star 3), and sometimes take longer to navigate through the menus than it takes to get to the star! Quite simply, they suck!

In 2, there's a lot less use of the game actually taking place in space. Like, Galaxy 1 makes a lot of use of gravity, planetoids, and generally flying through a cluster of planets. Galaxy 2, on the other hand, usually takes place on very flat, linear planes with not much divergence. While the level design is generally a bit tighter than 1 (I think its level design lows aren't as low as 1, even if its highs don't really come close), its just unmemorable and lack the more natural feel of 1's levels. Like compare 1's Freezeflame Galaxy to 2's Shiverburn Galaxy. 1 does a lot more interesting concepts in its stage, like the use of the Ice Flower and the giant planet that's half rising cold water and half rising lava, as well as just feeling more intriguing than a flat plane of lava that becomes ice.

The biggest thing that 2 lacks, however, is 1's sense of scale. It has these giant planets that actually look like landmasses, and not just floating objects in the air, its opening mission has you get a whole Grand Star, and its final mission is called The Fate of the Universe, which is wayyy cooler than "Bowser's Galaxy Generator". Not to mention that incredible ending, which by far beats out every other Mario game (besides perhaps Odyssey). As a side note, I forgot how many explosions there are in Galaxy 1. Ground pounding straight through Mecha Bowser and watching it explode is pretty satisfying.

Its just incredible how hard they dropped the ball on Galaxy 2, lacking any sense of grandiose that made Galaxy 1 so special. It feels more like 3D Land that its predecessor, which is really disappointing! It feels like it all comes down to the fact it was originally going to be DLC for the original game, and if it were that, it'd be pretty alright. But as the sequel to one of the best games of all time, and the grandest adventure Mario has ever been on, its just so lame.

Just to make it clear, I still think Galaxy 2 is a really good game (8/10), but it just pales in comparison to the first game (a true 10/10).
 
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Deleted member 33120

User Requested Account Closure
Banned
Nov 15, 2017
970
You're going to get a lot of flack, but I agree. Galaxy 2 was a step down from 1.

-Not as grandiose feeling.
-Space theme barely utilized.
-Too many 2D sections, but the mechanics don't suit themselves to it.
-Soundtrack not as memorable.
-No standout Gusty Garden Galaxy type level.
-Stripped down hub world.
-Even less of a compelling story.
 

OldBoyGamer

Member
Dec 11, 2017
525
I definitely agree that 1 is better than 2. But not sure where you're coming from if you're saying 2 is a bad game?

it's possible that the fact you played them in the wrong order meant to lacked the correct context. a bit like watching Empire before Star Wars.

SMG2 always struck me as a bit of a 'data disc' rather than a completely new game.
that doesn't take away from how good it was of course.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,134
Super Mario Galaxy 2 reflected a great level of familiarity with the sort of levels that could be made with the game's mechanics, and is certainly more competent in that regard. But I think it often feels less grand than the original Super Mario Galaxy, because they never felt the need just to build something for the sake of having built it and figure out what to do with it later.

Anyway, ban the OP.
 

Superking

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,671
i agree with you about everything except level design. i thought that was the one thing SMG2 did that was superior (if not slightly) to the original

still love the game though
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 26156

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 30, 2017
1,579
You're going to get a lot of flack, but I agree. Galaxy 2 was a step down from 1.

-Not as grandiose feeling.
-Space theme barely utilized.
-Too many 2D sections, but the mechanics don't suit themselves to it.
-Soundtrack not as memorable.
-No standout Gusty Garden Galaxy type level.
-Stripped down hub world.
-Even less of a compelling story.
Oh man, I didn't even mention the soundtrack. Its still a reallygreat soundtrack, and it fits the game perfectly, but nothing quite comes close to how perfect Galaxy's is. It doesn't hit as many highs as the original did. It also reuses more of 1's soundtrack than I'd like :/

And yea, the amount of 2D sections are so lame. The game doesn't make use of its third dimension a lot of time, arguably even less than 3D Land/World, despite the main crux of those games being "2D game design in 3D"! Having some 2D sections are fine, even Galaxy 1 has a handful of them, but they're used wayyy too much in 2.
 

Jaded Alyx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
35,582
Galaxy 2 was a step down from 1.

-Not as grandiose feeling.
-Space theme barely utilized.
-Too many 2D sections, but the mechanics don't suit themselves to it.
-Soundtrack not as memorable.
-No standout Gusty Garden Galaxy type level.
-Stripped down hub world.
-Even less of a compelling story.
Mmhm.
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,365
You're going to get a lot of flack, but I agree. Galaxy 2 was a step down from 1.

-Not as grandiose feeling.
-Space theme barely utilized.
-Too many 2D sections, but the mechanics don't suit themselves to it.
-Soundtrack not as memorable.
-No standout Gusty Garden Galaxy type level.
-Stripped down hub world.
-Even less of a compelling story.

The pacing also is whack. There are times where you've collected every "mission" Star and you're forced to either grind on Star Bits or look for secret Stars in order to progress. Feels like the requirements for Star gates are too high. It was the first Mario platformer I ever played that I dropped midgame, and came back to at a later date.

It's still a fantastic game and I think the level design is overall superior, but it lacks the theming, cohesion, novelty, and presentation that made the original Galaxy so memorable. It's my least favorite of the "top 5" 3D Marios (64/SMG/SMG2/3DW/SMO), but still like an 8.5 at the absolute worst.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,877
Galaxy 2 has less linearity than Galaxy 1 does, IMO. Galaxy has a lot of courses that shunt you one way. Galaxy 2 has those, but it has more open courses as well.

Galaxy 1 is a much better game because of Rosalina and her story, but otherwise, they both are what they are, and you either love them or find them okay enough outside of the art, music, and characters.
 

Red Devil

Member
Oct 29, 2017
824
The truly lame part of Galaxy 2 are the Green Stars, and that one last level is locked behind them.
 

DecoReturns

Member
Oct 27, 2017
22,003
Yeah. It doesn't reach the Heights as Mario Galaxy.

bummer Mario Galaxy 2 is just a 9/10. But not every game can be as fantastic as Mario Galaxy.
 

Hermii

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,724
i agree about the green stars. Recommend everyone to stop after 120.

that's where I stop agreeing.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,877
Oh man, I didn't even mention the soundtrack. Its still a reallygreat soundtrack, and it fits the game perfectly, but nothing quite comes close to how perfect Galaxy's is. It doesn't hit as many highs as the original did. It also reuses more of 1's soundtrack than I'd like :/

I can't co-sign this. Galaxy 2 has Galaxy 1's soundtrack plus this:



Therefore, Galaxy 2 has the superior soundtrack.

Galaxy 1 and 2 are both overrated.

In terms of gameplay and level design, I am there with you.

In terms of art direction, music, and the characters/story (at least for the first Galaxy), I am absolutely in disagreement. Those are where Galaxy excels. If only the gameplay had come nearly close to those heights for me as well, it would be the best game ever made.
 

EatChildren

Wonder from Down Under
Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,047
Gold standard of 3D platformers and borderline perfection. To hell with this thread.
 

Buzzth

Member
Jan 15, 2018
732
Japan
It's been a long time since I played them so it may be nostalgia but I didn't finish Galaxy 1 but 100% Galaxy 2 twice. I just thought it was much more streamlined and really expanded on a lot of the great ideas Galaxy had but made them enjoyable through levels that don't overstay their welcome. I'd be interested to revisit them some time and see if my opinion still holds up.
 

Rickenslacker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,415
I enjoyed Galaxy 2 a good amount but I had to leave it on an unsatisfying note because I was not interested in going through all the levels again to needle in a haystack those green stars whereas I just lived and breathed Galaxy 1 until I 100%ed it.
 

Phendrift

Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,400
You're going to get a lot of flack, but I agree. Galaxy 2 was a step down from 1.

-Not as grandiose feeling.
-Space theme barely utilized.
-Too many 2D sections, but the mechanics don't suit themselves to it.
-Soundtrack not as memorable.
-No standout Gusty Garden Galaxy type level.
-Stripped down hub world.
-Even less of a compelling story.
Agree with all of this

and Galaxy 2 is still a 10/10 game

actually Gusty Garden isn't really a standout level the music is just iconic
 

Lulu

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,885
you can play as mario's dad in this
 

Prof Bathtub

Member
Apr 26, 2018
2,677
I agree with preferring 1 over 2. At least, I don't know why Galaxy 2 in particular is held up as the obvious pinnacle of design. Don't really like the 2D controls in either of the Galaxy games much, Odyssey had the right idea by making those segments fully flat.
 
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GamerJM

Member
Nov 8, 2017
15,737
I agree with everything you say in the body of your post for the most part, but I don't any of it makes SMG2 "lame". Being a step down from the first game in scale, grandiosity, and pacing makes it not as great of a game, but like within the spectrum of gaming as a whole describing it as a "lame" game just seems like an inaccurate descriptor since it's still a great game.
 

Raijinto

self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
10,091
The word grandiose is used by 2 people already ITT and I feel that it's always harsh whenever it is in regards to Galaxy 2. Not every sequel, or even game, is grandiose or even attempts to be and that's fine. Galaxy 2 is just an outstanding sequel and an outstanding game period. We're just going to have to agree to disagree in regards to the level design and soundtrack because oh man.

This review has it right IMO:

metro.co.uk

Game review: Super Mario Galaxy 2 comes to Wii U

Not just the game of the year, or even of its console generation - could Super Mario Galaxy 2 be the best video game ever made? GameCentral gives its verdict on Nintendo's latest masterpiece.
 

Elfforkusu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,098
I don't think it's"lame", but I would say it's less ambitious than 1 was, and that while it benefits from a more uniform quality (less highs, but also less lows) compared to 1, some of the magic always felt lacking in 2 vs 1.

But I think 2 might still be a top 5 game all time, even if I think 1 is better. so...
 
Apr 9, 2019
631
I agree, OP, and admire your courage. Being critical of Galaxy 2 is like being critical at Wind Waker or Majora's Mask - people get really defensive and, frankly, kind of mean :/. (EDIT: replies are really civil up to now though which is nice.)

I finished Galaxy multiple times, and whenever I try 2 I always end up dropping it halfway through. I'd like to emphasise what a slog it is to get to a level - so many menus!
 

ResetGreyWolf

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,446
OP, I think one of the big reasons why you got such backlash is because of your wording in the thread title. I think if you phrased yourself better your point would come across better. Your main issue with SMG2 really is the level design, but you explain your opinion in a pretty convoluted way. Your opinion is valid, but think about the way you phrase yourself if you want to spark an actual discussion.
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,365
The word grandiose is used by 2 people already ITT and I feel that it's always harsh whenever it is in regards to Galaxy 2. Not every sequel, or even game, is grandiose or even attempts to be and that's fine. Galaxy 2 is just an outstanding sequel and an outstanding game period. We're just going to have to agree to disagree in regards to the level design and soundtrack because oh man.

This review has it right IMO:

metro.co.uk

Game review: Super Mario Galaxy 2 comes to Wii U

Not just the game of the year, or even of its console generation - could Super Mario Galaxy 2 be the best video game ever made? GameCentral gives its verdict on Nintendo's latest masterpiece.

I don't think many here would dispute it's an outstanding game (I must reiterate that if the worst of the best of the series is an 8.5, then it's a really fucking good series), but Galaxy, specifically, was beloved in large part for its atmosphere, adventure, and scope. If Galaxy 2 wasn't a sequel to that game specifically, it wouldn't have that problem. 3D World has an even smaller scope and scale, but it's my favorite 3D Mario because I didn't play 3D Land for that, and I didn't expect that from 3D World.
 

robot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,474
Yeah I didn't like 2 nearly as much as 1 either. Still a good game with great level design but it lacked that grandiose feeling the first one had.
 

CJCW?

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,008
I've always found it weird to hear people say they like 1 more than 2. While 1 is great, 2 is a far better game, particularly due to its level design. 2's levels are tightly focused, taking the obstacle course approach to Mario games and nailing that design approach, while still having enough secrets and side paths to leave some room for exploration. 1 on the other hand seems caught between the previously mentioned obstacle course approach of most 2d Mario games, and the sandbox nature of the 3d games up to that point in the series. 1's levels are often too wide for their own good, leading to a sense of aimlessness when trying to figure out where the game wants you to go, while still not being truly open in the way that 64 and later Odyssey would be. It's a classic example of how linearity is not an inherent negative in game design, as opposed to what a lot of open world fetishists today might tell you.