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ThLunarian

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,547
The last time I tried playing Final Fantasy 9 was in 2011, and I only got a few hours into it before my PS3 died and ate the disc. So I was happy to hear that it came out on the Switch.

I know that this release has some technical problems that bother some people. They don't bother me too much, and they're not what this thread is about.

The plot of this game, though.... so much stupidity happens during parts that we're supposed to take seriously.

-How does Vivi somehow accidentally run onstage in the beginning of the game? You're telling me no one would have bothered to stop him? But sure, I guess that can be glossed over without much issue. Maybe everyone was distracted by what was happening on stage. Maybe Vivi didn't look where he was running. Fine.

-When the party hitches a ride with the teleporting black mages out of Cleyra, the black mages they latched onto never appear on the other side. Wait a second.... I guess it's possible that these guys were just dispatched off-screen by the party members, but Vivi would have been petrified with fear to be stuck in a small jar with a murderous black mage. Ehh....

-Zidane is carrying an unconscious Dagger through the castle in a frantic attempt to escape from the Queen and her soldiers. Things are tense, and there have been numerous encounters with security already. The castle is enemy territory, and it's crawling with enemy soldiers.
...So, naturally, when they get to the QUEEN'S BEDROOM, Zidane puts Dagger down to LET HER REST for an undetermined length of time. WHEN SHE'S ALREADY ASLEEP. WHAT?! They went to all this trouble to set up a tense escape-from-enemy-territory narrative, only for the characters to do something nonsensical, imbecilic and out of sync with the plot that drains almost all the tension away? Come on.

I'm all for suspension of disbelief, but that last one especially just undermines the entire narrative they're trying to set up.

Then there's little things, like someone in Dali saying that the town hasn't gotten visitors in years, and yet the biggest building in town is a fully-operational and well-maintained inn that factors into the plot? And the Black Mage has an inn, despite them deliberately hiding themselves from, and shunning, the outside world? (Yeah, I get that RPG towns need to have inns and this is just some minor nitpicking. But I'm on a roll here)

Maybe it's just a faulty memory but i don't remember nonsense like this happening in previous FF games. The plots may not have made sense in parts, but stuff like the above is just not excusable IMO.

So far in this playthrough I've only just gotten Eiko. I bet more stuff like this is gonna pop up and I'm going to chronicle it in this thread.

Thanks for your time
 

chandoog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,071
I think you're doing yourself a disservice by nitpicking all these small things. Enjoy the game for it's fantastical plot/world and charming characters.
 

Tiago Rodrigues

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Nov 15, 2018
5,244
If these are the worst plot holes you found on FFIX it just shows what an amazing game it is.
Hardly any of these are nonsense tbh and it's not that serious.
 

sosainas

Member
Sep 13, 2018
896
The things you are pointing out are just trivial scenes not plot-related. I wouldn't call them plot holes.
 
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ThLunarian

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,547
I think you're doing yourself a disservice by nitpicking all these small things. Enjoy the game for it's fantastical plot/world and charming characters.

For the most part I have been enjoying it. The small nitpicks like the inn are fine and don't bother me. But the part during the escape from Alexandria is just so stupid! It took me out of the moment without me even trying to look for it.
 

TheAggroCraig

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 6, 2017
5,913
I just played/finished the game for the first time last week and had no fucking clue what the hell was going on. If you have problems with these things then you're in for a wild fucking ride.
 

Aleh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,298
Vivi didn't accidentally walk on stage, he was being chased by the guards.
The inn in Dali was just there like any other village, they can't decide to get visitors or not and need one. The Black Mages are only hiding from humans and have been shown to visit Conde Petie so they're not hiding from the Dwarfs.
When they let Dagger rest they closed the secret passage behind them and needed to make a plan to escape first, and were quickly found by Beatrix anyways, so it's not like they waited there for a long time
 

Kromeo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,870
There's a section of the game in disk 3 that feels rushed and not very well explained but I wouldn't say there's plot holes. My only real problem with the game is the characters, Freya and Amarant are a waste of space, Quina is just plain shit and Zidane I can't stand..
 

Tiago Rodrigues

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Nov 15, 2018
5,244
Hoo boy, you have not reached the plot insanity of FF9 yet.

Yeah...what's happening from the 2nd half of disk 3 till the end of the game barely looks like the same game that starts as a "let's kidnap this princess".
But i love how insane all of it is. It's still my favorite FF game ever...and considering how bad Square-Enix is in 2019, that won't change anytime soon.
 

RestEerie

Banned
Aug 20, 2018
13,618
I just played/finished the game for the first time last week and had no fucking clue what the hell was going on. If you have problems with these things then you're in for a wild fucking ride.

Wait..if u r confused by 9, then have u played 7,8,10 & 13.
Those took 'confusion' to the extreme with clones, conjured personality, time travel & kompression (oh boy), an armour of a sorcerer turned into a killer whale and the dreaming of a city, fal'cie & l'cie gibberish nonsensical garbage....

FF9 is considered 'simple' as compared to those....the whole thing is just a story about parallel worlds (Gaia vs Terra) and it's relationship with each other......just don't think too much about Necron though....lmao.
 

chandoog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,071
Wait..if u r confused by 9, then have u played 7,8,10 & 13.
Those took 'confusion' to the extreme with clones, conjured personality, time travel & kompression (oh boy), an armour of a sorcerer turned into a killer whale and the dreaming of a city, fal'cie & l'cie gibberish nonsensical garbage....

FF9 is considered 'simple' as compared to those....the whole thing is just a story about parallel worlds (Gaia vs Terra) and it's relationship with each other......just don't think too much about Necron though....lmao.

Yeah .. The only thing that really caught me off guard with FFIX is something that happens *right* at the end but doesn't have any bearing on the overall plot of the game.

FFIX's plot was much more easier to digest than VII, VIII and X to me.
 

seanxwilliams

Member
Nov 3, 2017
63
London
e26.jpg
 

ccieag

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,339
Vail, CO
FFIX is my favorite FF game since the SNES days, just short of the brilliance that is FFVI. Honestly, Vivi is the best character ever for Final Fantasy, and I loved the artwork for this game.

Simply loved it
 

RestEerie

Banned
Aug 20, 2018
13,618
Yeah .. The only thing that really caught me off guard with FFIX is something that happens *right* at the end but doesn't have any bearing on the overall plot of the game.

FFIX's plot was much more easier to digest than VII, VIII and X to me.
That final thing is a call back to past FF.....the entire FF9 is basically a tribute to the 2D FF....right down to every enemies in the final dungeons.
 

Deleted member 51789

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 9, 2019
3,705
Maybe it's just a faulty memory but i don't remember nonsense like this happening in previous FF games. The plots may not have made sense in parts, but stuff like the above is just not excusable IMO.
Every FF game has some form of minor plot contrivance (which is all I really think the issues you describe are) to get from Plotpoint A to B to C etc.

Also, a quick note about 'plot holes' in video form (excuse the capital letters, the content is intelligent) - basically, things that are unlikely are not plot holes
 

Sandersson

Banned
Feb 5, 2018
2,535
The last time I tried playing Final Fantasy 9 was in 2011, and I only got a few hours into it before my PS3 died and ate the disc. So I was happy to hear that it came out on the Switch.

I know that this release has some technical problems that bother some people. They don't bother me too much, and they're not what this thread is about.

The plot of this game, though.... so much stupidity happens during parts that we're supposed to take seriously.

-How does Vivi somehow accidentally run onstage in the beginning of the game? You're telling me no one would have bothered to stop him? But sure, I guess that can be glossed over without much issue. Maybe everyone was distracted by what was happening on stage. Maybe Vivi didn't look where he was running. Fine.

-When the party hitches a ride with the teleporting black mages out of Cleyra, the black mages they latched onto never appear on the other side. Wait a second.... I guess it's possible that these guys were just dispatched off-screen by the party members, but Vivi would have been petrified with fear to be stuck in a small jar with a murderous black mage. Ehh....

-Zidane is carrying an unconscious Dagger through the castle in a frantic attempt to escape from the Queen and her soldiers. Things are tense, and there have been numerous encounters with security already. The castle is enemy territory, and it's crawling with enemy soldiers.
...So, naturally, when they get to the QUEEN'S BEDROOM, Zidane puts Dagger down to LET HER REST for an undetermined length of time. WHEN SHE'S ALREADY ASLEEP. WHAT?! They went to all this trouble to set up a tense escape-from-enemy-territory narrative, only for the characters to do something nonsensical, imbecilic and out of sync with the plot that drains almost all the tension away? Come on.

I'm all for suspension of disbelief, but that last one especially just undermines the entire narrative they're trying to set up.

Then there's little things, like someone in Dali saying that the town hasn't gotten visitors in years, and yet the biggest building in town is a fully-operational and well-maintained inn that factors into the plot? And the Black Mage has an inn, despite them deliberately hiding themselves from, and shunning, the outside world? (Yeah, I get that RPG towns need to have inns and this is just some minor nitpicking. But I'm on a roll here)

Maybe it's just a faulty memory but i don't remember nonsense like this happening in previous FF games. The plots may not have made sense in parts, but stuff like the above is just not excusable IMO.

So far in this playthrough I've only just gotten Eiko. I bet more stuff like this is gonna pop up and I'm going to chronicle it in this thread.

Thanks for your time
Oh boy, you are gonna absolutely LOVE FFXV.. ... *Smirk*
 

ThreepQuest64

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
5,735
Germany
I'd love to explore the plot (and maybe either confirm or refute your sentiment), but the long battle animations and loading times are keeping me off the game.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,333
Yeah .. The only thing that really caught me off guard with FFIX is something that happens *right* at the end but doesn't have any bearing on the overall plot of the game.

FFIX's plot was much more easier to digest than VII, VIII and X to me.

It's really just the final dungeon that gets trippy, and of course the infamous final boss that comes out of nowhere. As you say, the level of convolutedness in IX is below the norm for Final Fantasy stories.
 

Grudy

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,644
When I saw the comical sense injected into the story, characters and specially the animations and designs in the game I just ran with it and I had a fantastic time. FF9 is still my most replayed FF and my favorite in the series after 7 even after all the nonsensical stuff that people are talking about.

I still have no freaking clue what that last boss was lol.
 

Geg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,551
This sounds like you've taught yourself to spot plot holes by watching cinemasins
 

Lulu

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
26,680
These are not plotholes, jeez does thag term get miss used a lot
 

pants

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,184
Its meant to be lighthearted, charming, and full of personality.

If this stuff is grating to you, you will probably despise most of the game.
 

Gradon

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,471
UK
I still have no freaking clue what that last boss was lol.

It's God I believe. Yeah that was super fucking left field and I'm still annoyed by that "ho hey I'm a newly introduced character but also the final boss hehe" but its a small blight on a fantastic game.
 

'3y Kingdom

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,494
The plot and most of the characters aren't a strength of this game. It's all about the nostalgic vibe. Which is why people recommending IX as someone's first Final Fantasy is a pretty crazy idea.
 

Mekanos

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,176
The plot and most of the characters aren't a strength of this game. It's all about the nostalgic vibe. Which is why people recommending IX as someone's first Final Fantasy is a pretty crazy idea.

9 was my first Final Fantasy and I thought the story/characters were fantastic.
 

Astral

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
28,115
You didn't list a single plot hole. Do people really, honestly thing to themselves "how in the world did Vivi get there with no one catching him? That makes no sense!" It's such a nonissue that I just don't see how anyone could honestly even have that cross their mind. It's just nitpicky.
 

SOLDIER

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
11,339
The one unresolved plot thread that still gets me to this day is when Garnet's professor wanted to run a test on Eiko to see if she was possibly related to Garnet (sisters?).

Eiko runs off before this gets explored any further and it never comes up again.
 
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ThLunarian

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,547
These are not plotholes, jeez does thag term get miss used a lot


Sorry but the escape from Alexandria is a plot hole. You've got a group of renegades in enemy territory who just freed a high-priority prisoner fleeing a maximum-security castle, they're being actively hunted after already killing multiple guards, and they decide to stop in the Queen's actual bedroom in plain sight so that a person who is already asleep can take a nap?

It's one of the most ridiculous video game things I've ever seen. It robs the mood of urgency, it conflicts with character motivations, it disrupts the flow of events.

Also the fact that Garnet gets awoken from her magic sleep almost immediately, negates it as a plot point. There were much smarter methods that the writers could have used to convince Beatrix to switch sides. Like, I don't know, maybe having Garnet talk to her?

They should have had Garnet be awake from the beginning, and then in the Queen's room, which they can't avoid at least passing through, they are caught by Beatrix, who is finally persuaded by Garnet's teary pleas to betray the queen.

But no, they decided to have them stop for a quick nap instead.

It's absurd
 

senj

Member
Nov 6, 2017
4,436
Sorry but the escape from Alexandria is a plot hole. You've got a group of renegades in enemy territory who just freed a high-priority prisoner fleeing a maximum-security castle, they're being actively hunted after already killing multiple guards, and they decide to stop in the Queen's actual bedroom in plain sight so that a person who is already asleep can take a nap?

It's one of the most ridiculous video game things I've ever seen. It robs the mood of urgency, it conflicts with character motivations, it disrupts the flow of events.

That's not a plot hole. That's not what a plot hole is.

You can think that it's an unlikely or contrived piece of storytelling, but that's not synonymous with "plot hole".
 

GamingRobioto

Member
May 18, 2018
1,350
Exeter, UK
These are pretty nitpicky and nothing out of the ordinary in most games. Certainly not things that bother me.

If you want to tear a game apart for plot holes and ridiculous scenarios, try Final Fantasy VIII (a game I absolutely love, but know is flawed).
 

Robin

Restless Insomniac
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,502
A character doing something you find irrational is not a plot hole.
 

MP!

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,198
Las Vegas
Unless you're buying into nonsense fan theories then the plot of VIII is just as straightforward as IX, the quality of it is obviously down to opinion

I'm talking more about the "Why"
Why Am I fighting a fatty alien in the bottom of Balam garden and why didn't it matter?- Don't worry about it it doesn't make sense
WHY am I going to the sea side house?- Don't know... I guess we might find answers... or did I really just find more questions
WHY am I seeing these other characters?- NO idea, why is he in a movie?
WHY am I doing some train thing?- At least it was fun and adventuresome
WHY am I going to some weird future city?- Maybe Science?
WHy am I playing this game? Don't really know... cause it's called Final Fantasy?

Where as I feel IX has far less "why" in it... (though there's still some moments) You mostly know why you're doing the things the plot has you doing...
Why are we stealing a princess?- Cause we're thieves...
WHY Am I going to rat town- Hmmm ... not sure... but the rat lady wants to
Why are we in this podunk town? Investigating the black mage things
Why are we hunting some monsters in the middle of lindblum? Not sure... honestly
there's some stuff that feels motivated and some stuff that feels random.

FFVII's cohesiveness is fantastic... You never doubt why you are doing something
WHY am I dressing up like a girl?- Gotta sneak into this place to save Tifa
WHY am I going to shinra Tower?- To rescue Aeris from the turks
WHY am I flashing back to Nibelheim?- To learn about Sepiroth and gain some insight into cloud's background
WHY am I playing a tower defense game to save a condor?- Because Shinra's reach is all over the planet and even optional minigame siquests can flesh out the plot
WHY am I in Junon/on a boat across the sea?- Because we're trying to beat rufus to sepiroth to see if we can stop him from doing crazy stuff.

Everything I do in that game makes sense and progresses the plot, even the nonsensical stuff.
 

MilkBeard

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,780
The plot is not perfect, but these are things that exist in just about every game. You can nitpick these details in most Final Fantasy games, to be sure.

My main complaint is that Kuja feels like a generic Final Fantasy antagonist. Thankfully, the plot involves more than that by endgame.
 

Psxphile

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,528
I thought the Black Mage village situation was explained in-game? The mages were trying to live their lives like humans do in order to understand what it means to "live", so they have inns and shops and go about their day despite the whole depressing situation they're in.

Maybe I just made that up for myself.