I dropped my highest paying client after a dinner.

[Deleted member 51103]

Gordon Ramsay once said "The thicker your skin, the further you will go."

I applaud you standing up for your principles. Please don't take this as a condemnation: You should probably get a day job instead of trying to run a business if this is the type of behaviour you are going to be performing. This shit flies when you are solo, but once you have other people relying on you, it is extremely bad.

I would describe your reaction as rash and immature. Sure, it felt good in the moment. But this was a decision made in the heat of the moment and in anger. You got yourself sued. And lawsuits don't just go away because you "have a contract" or "gave the money back." If they want to be assholes, they can. And it is going to cost you money to fix.

You lost a huge amount of your income overnight because of your anger. You had a contact that you GAVE YOUR WORD ON, and then shit on when you found out you don't agree with someone you were working with. How is that professional? How is that running a business? It's not. It means your word is worth nothing and you will abandon your responsibilities when you get angry.

What happens when you WANT to expand? What happens when you have employees, and you lose them THEIR livelihood because one of your clients is a sexist asshole?

 

[Vilix]

I know this is going to sound very strange. But I've worked with women who only hire men. One client, who was a lady, told me she hated working with other women because of the gossip and backstabbing. I do not share their view. I hire the most qualified candidate. Doesn't matter who they are.

 

[The Adder]

I mean, maybe I'm unique, but getting paid by some douche with sexist views isn't going to make me ashamed of looking in the mirror at night if my work output has nothing to do with promoting those views. I'm going to be more ashamed that I affected the well being of my family while this guy keeps on being scum, but is now just paying someone else's income instead. I guess I assume most people I do business with are terrible people if I know it or not, so jumping from one person I disagree with to another just sounds like a pointless cycle. Probably not a bad assumption looking at society today and my own weekly experiences in my own profession.

And there is definitely a line to be drawn, but one of a billion sexist business men being sexist isn't that point for me yet. But when I'm well off enough to shift my priorities from not being homeless to having 100% morale superiority in all of my actions I'll let you know. Maybe in the meantime people will stop being generally horrible... Nah.

Click to shrink...

This, and most of this topic, reads similarly to:

"I hate vegans because just choosing to be vegan is casting judgement on me for not making that choice."

 

[Liamario]

Well done on sticking by your values, but I completely disagree with your decision. The only person impacted by your decision is you and the negatives far outweighs the positives.

 

[Bane]

Hey. You're a pretty great person.

Good on ya.

 

[Deleted member 34385]

Gordon Ramsay once said "The thicker your skin, the further you will go."

I applaud you standing up for your principles. Please don't take this as a condemnation: You should probably get a day job instead of trying to run a business if this is the type of behaviour you are going to be performing. This shit flies when you are solo, but once you have other people relying on you, it is extremely bad.

I would describe your reaction as rash and immature. Sure, it felt good in the moment. But this was a decision made in the heat of the moment and in anger. You got yourself sued. And lawsuits don't just go away because you "have a contract" or "gave the money back." If they want to be assholes, they can. And it is going to cost you money to fix.

You lost a huge amount of your income overnight because of your anger. You had a contact that you GAVE YOUR WORD ON, and then shit on when you found out you don't agree with someone you were working with. How is that professional? How is that running a business? It's not. It means your word is worth nothing and you will abandon your responsibilities when you get angry.

What happens when you WANT to expand? What happens when you have employees, and you lose them THEIR livelihood because one of your clients is a sexist asshole?

Click to shrink...

Thank you for writing this. This is exactly why I posted this so I could hear people's opinion on what I did and how I did it, I fully agree with you and the fact that it was not professional in any way, I am always Trying to learn from others and improve myself as a person and your post will certainly help me in doing so, I am planning on speaking with someone about my past and some reactions here, including yours cemented the fact that there are multiple ways of handeling a situation like this more professionally . I would still drop this client but as some have suggested I could have done it in a more mature way. Once again thank you for your feedback and thoughts

 

[Deleted member 2761]

This, and most of this topic, reads similarly to:

"I hate vegans because just choosing to be vegan is casting judgement on me for not making that choice."

Click to shrink...

Yeah, not to go down that rabbit hole (for the record, I am not vegan), but a lot of people in here should do some self-reflection and ask themselves if they're shitting on the OP and his intelligence or "professionalism" if only because they realize they don't have the fortitude to do the same thing and feel a bit too defensive about it.

 

[CrunchyB]

Wait, is bigotry just a viewpoint?

His client called women stupid.

Click to shrink...

Well, the logical next step is never doing business with any republicans or conservative christians, muslims and jews. Because they are members of clubs which regularly discriminate against women. They are apparently comfortable with misogyny, even if they don't personally act on it.
It's cool if you want to go full white knight, but it will make life very hard. I prefer to distance myself from people like that, but it's hard and sometimes impossible to cut them out of your life completely.

 

[Mass One]

I've got nothing bad to say op. You have backbone and you stuck with it. You have my respect.

You're a adult and you understand your position and feeling better than randos here. I imagine afterwards you already knew what would have been the better strategy because you're a functioning adult. So I don't feel like I need to tell you what you already know. .

 

[Jogi]

Good on ya, Op. Money comes and goes, you'll always be able to make more somewhere else.

 

[Fierro]

Good on ya, Op. Money comes and goes, you'll always be able to make more somewhere else.

Click to shrink...

No dude, this is a terrible mindset and clearly not one of the OP. He even acknowledges how hard it is to get a client who even pays that much. He made a huge sacrifice.

 

[Border]

As already noted, just because you gave them their money back doesn't mean you can't be sued. You defaulted on a contract you agreed to honor, and if that action costs them money (through missed deadlines and delays) then they can most certainly sue you over it. At the bare minimum you should have had a lawyer look over your agreement to determine what if any liability comes from unilaterally terminating things.

 

[Amnesty]

Yeah, not to go down that rabbit hole (for the record, I am not vegan), but a lot of people in here should do some self-reflection and ask themselves if they're shitting on the OP and his intelligence or "professionalism" if only because they realize they don't have the fortitude to do the same thing and feel a bit too defensive about it.

Click to shrink...

People are painting it with rhetoric couched in 'it's a mere disagreement' or 'you're being too emotional', while infantilizing the OP. These are the attitudes that keep the doors open for stuff like misogyny, racism or whatever else.

 

[Deleted member 20284]

Admirable mate, you did the right thing and that's not an easy thing to do. Be proud of yourself but mindful not to cut your own nose off to spite your face in future. I've had two situations very similar over the 20 years I've run my own web company.

1. Early on I had a deal I turned down for building an adult webcam site, we're talking 15+ years ago and the full setup of rooms, cams, girls on the books etc. I could have made a share percentage and large up front cash. The investors were sleazy AF and I've purposefully never done adult sites beyond a couple of stores selling toys. They went on to be quite rich after selling out years later but I'm still happy I never went down that road and declined to work with them. Especially now I have 2 kids under 10 it's not something I could have been proud of. My now wife, girlfriend at the time, was very happy with that life choice.

2. I walked away from a $400K deal because the key guy running became a total cunt of a person after their 3rd round of investment ($20+ Million). Their startup went large and so did this guy's attitude. The wanted to treat us like employees and not a separate company doing work for them. Partnerships are one thing but when someone treats you like they own you and want access 24/7 with high demands just GTFO. I had worked with him for years and on 3 major versions of his startup. Still chose to walk away.

You did good, glad you're building yourself back up again. Just remember sometimes to choose your battles to keep food on the table and the lights on. Once you're established those life choices become easier and clearer to make. That's the beauty of being your on boss, you choose how to handle yourself and your business.

EDIT:

As already noted, just because you gave them their money back doesn't mean you can't be sued. You defaulted on a contract you agreed to honor, and if that action costs them money (through missed deadlines and delays) then they can most certainly sue you over it. At the bare minimum you should have had a lawyer look over your agreement to determine what if any liability comes from unilaterally terminating things.

Click to shrink...

I don't believe that is correct, in Australia anyway, once monies are exchanged the process of offer for resolution was made and acceptance of those terms complete when they accepted the money. If they want to sue they need to reject that offer and the refund then commence legal proceedings. Anyone can sue but I'd be quite happy to be in the position of the OP in a mediation or trial.

 

[Stooge]

What kind of design work do you do OP?

We own a board game publisher and you sound like good people.

 

[RedMercury]

I applaud you standing up for your principles. Please don't take this as a condemnation: You should probably get a day job instead of trying to run a business if this is the type of behaviour you are going to be performing. This shit flies when you are solo, but once you have other people relying on you, it is extremely bad.

Click to shrink...

I disagree, with OP being his own boss he has more freedom to choose who he does business with, and to hire employees who share his values.

Also:

Please don't take this as a condemnation:

Click to shrink...

And then you go on for paragraphs shitting on the guy

 

[Deleted member 19003]

Bravo, OP. More men need to stand up to that sort of behavior. Rare to find someone who will act on their convictions like that. Being your own boss helps a lot, I'm sure. I would not have been able to rationalize my husband leaving his job without a back up, but he's an employee and we have children to support. I hope you detailed in your email how unacceptable that behavior was and that you find more work soon!

 

[Mauricio_Magus]

I'm proud of you, OP

 

[Yung Coconut]

This, and most of this topic, reads similarly to:

"I hate vegans because just choosing to be vegan is casting judgement on me for not making that choice."

Click to shrink...

What? I don't care what Resetera thinks about me or even have an opinion on how good of a person I am. Other people I actually care about can make that judgement. But I guess if you ignore the posts I was replying to you could easily decide that's what I was saying. I was just letting the other poster know that reality exists and most everything people do in their career is indeed for that "reward" of being able to survive.

Dope hot take though.

 

[Kasai]

Legit props for not selling out.

 

[Pancakes R Us]

Take a bow, OP. Take a bow. I'd like to say I'd have done the same, but I can't say for certain. I tip my hat to you.

 

[tsampikos]

You just said nothing and walked away? I think that's more awkward than brave. If you felt that strongly about it you should have said something. Good on you for sticking to your principles though. One of the benefits of doing contract work.

 

[tommy7154]

You did something most would want to do, would think about doing...but never would in reality. You did the morally right thing and you should be proud of that. Good for you.

 

[SugarNoodles]

In these kinds of situations wouldn't it be best to ask them to repeat themselves and then take a video of it and blast it all over social media?

 

[Yung Coconut]

In these kinds of situations wouldn't it be best to ask them to repeat themselves and then take a video of it and blast it all over social media?

Click to shrink...

Yeah, if you want no one in your industry to ever work with you again.

 

[SugarNoodles]

Yeah, if you want no one in your industry to ever work with you again.

Click to shrink...

Is the newly jobless sexist pig going to somehow blacklist you?

 

[AcidCat]

I know this is going to sound very strange. But I've worked with women who only hire men. One client, who was a lady, told me she hated working with other women because of the gossip and backstabbing.

Click to shrink...

Honestly my mom has always told me the same thing, she'd much rather work with men in office environments, she said if they were jerks at least they'd be jerks to your face, women would go behind your back but would fake being nice.

So, anyway yeah, not just men that promote these kind of stereotypes.

 

[Psychotext]

Fair play to you OP. I'm self employed and I have to work with scumbags every day of the week. I don't like it at all, but I don't have the guts to do what you did.

I have called them out on it before though, so they generally know to tone down their shit around me.

 

[Yung Coconut]

Is the newly jobless sexist pig going to somehow blacklist you?

Click to shrink...

No, you just blacklisted yourself. He doesn't have to. I'm sure after running to social media, to let the entire world do what your weak spine couldn't handle in a private business setting, I'm sure all of your peers are going to look beyond the poor business judgement/privacy concerns and the offers are just going to roll right in. Right?

Being a whistleblower sounds mad sexy until you can't get work anymore and the only people that care are people on social media that really don't care about you at all. And the situation presented by the OP does not sound like it's at the level needed to willingly nuke your career to feel better about yourself.

 

[TheMan]

jeopardizing your family's stability over a joke? you know that when you die you don't unlock acheivements for that shit, right

 

[SugarNoodles]

No, you just blacklisted yourself. He doesn't have to. I'm sure after running to social media, to let the entire world do what your weak spine couldn't handle in a private business setting, I'm sure all of your peers are going to look beyond the poor business judgement/privacy concerns and the offers are just going to roll right in. Right?

Click to shrink...

Ohhhh so you're coming at this from the low key sexist angle of "powerful men shouldn't be publically shamed just because they're sexist pieces of shit" angle?

"Running to social media" Jesus fucking Christ. It's like you think sexism is something you just stand tall against in order to defeat.

 

[Kalamoj]

Is the newly jobless sexist pig going to somehow blacklist you?

Click to shrink...

No, normal people will blacklist you, because they will not trust you after that.
Who knows what you will upload next, so any sane person will avoid you like the plague.

 

[Yung Coconut]

Ohhhh so you're coming at this from the low key sexist angle of "powerful men shouldn't be publically shamed just because they're sexist pieces of shit" angle?

"Running to social media" Jesus fucking Christ. It's like you think sexism is something you just stand tall against in order to defeat.

Click to shrink...

Jesus Christ. No, I'm coming from the low key reality based angle of be prepared for the consequences of running to social media instead of handling your business in a private setting. People like that deserve to be publicly shamed and there's a ton of unfortunate consequences for doing what you think is right in this world. Just don't be disappointed when your career burns to the ground because your peers can no longer trust you'll work issues out with them instead of airing it all out for the world to see.

It's like you'd rather make up someone's intent instead of wasting time actually reading what they wrote. Have fun with that.

 

[SugarNoodles]

No, normal people will blacklist you, because they will not trust you after that.
Who knows what you will upload next, so any sane person will avoid you like the plague.

Click to shrink...

I mean, I can definitely see how I'd be really concerned if I had a habit of saying terrible things and expecting no one to hold me accountable.

How often do you really find yourself saying "but who took the video tho?" in situations where powerful men are caught with their asses hanging out?

 

[Deleted member 34385]

What kind of design work do you do OP?

We own a board game publisher and you sound like good people.

Click to shrink...

Thank you for the offer. I do all round design and 3d work. I appreciate all of you for offering me an oppertunity, but I honestly posted this to get it off my chest and talk about my experience and the reactions have been more then I could have asked for. I am humbled, thank you, but I don't want to use resetera in any other way then to communicate about what happened. I do have to say that I love board games and if you could share your games, I would love to check it out.

 

[SugarNoodles]

Jesus Christ. No, I'm coming from the low key reality based angle of be prepared for the consequences of running to social media instead of handling your business in a private setting. People like that deserve to be publicly shamed and there's a ton of unfortunate consequences for doing what you think is right in this world. Just don't be disappointed when your career burns to the ground because your peers can no longer trust you'll work issues out with them instead airing it all for the world to see.

Click to shrink...

Please elaborate on this bit right here:

I'm sure after running to social media, to let the entire world do what your weak spine couldn't handle in a private business setting, I'm sure all of your peers are going to look beyond the poor business judgement/privacy concerns and the offers are just going to roll right in. Right?

Click to shrink...

Specifically the part where shaming people who deserve to be shamed "your own words" means running to social media with a weak spine because you couldn't handle sexism in a "private business setting" (why does it matter that it's private?)

Also shaming people who deserve to be publically shamed is the result of poor business judgement?

 

[Deleted member 82]

Redfirm you're a hero. Yeah, sure, it's rash to just drop someone you have a contract with because they might ("rightfully") sue you - I hope they don't though! - but being able to drop shitty people like that despite the financial hit is nothing short of courageous. Not to mention it honors all the women in your life, including your gf and especially your mother who went through so much. She raised you well.

Some people will tell you it was stupid because it impacts you negatively and you're just trying to be morally superior. Some will even tell you you're a poser for it. But the fact that you're actually sacrificing something (i.e. wealth and comfort) to uphold those moral standards is exactly the reason why you're genuinely moral. Very brave of you. Damn. Massive, massive props to you.

 

[Mitch]

Hey, I agree with you and i fully support what you are saying. Look, i remember as a child i had days where i only had bread and water for days and nothing else, we could not even warm the house in the winter. my mom worked in factories and did everything she could to provide and take care of us. she put up with all of this so i could have a future. I am not even going to name half of the things men did to my mom as she traveled alone from iran all the way to where we are now. A single women with two small children, i think you can fill in the blanks. Right now i am privileged. losing this money is a lot, but forgetting where i come from and the shit my mom went through so i could have this income is something i could never live with. Everything i have in this world is thanks to a strong women, I know, it was a bad business decision, i understand, but there is more to me then business, there is more then just money in the world. I lost a lot, yes. but I slept my whole live on this subject when i was younger and powerless to do anything about it. right now, i go through the fear, but this fear is nothing compared to what i saw happen through my whole childhood, my girlfriend knows me through and through and we are managing. Please also keep in mind, its extremly hard to do something creative for someone you hate and despise. I just felt the need to talk about it because i never actually did anything like this in my live and i dont have a lot of friends to talk to who understand where i come from

Click to shrink...

This is such a great fucking post. Kudos to you. I 100% agree with the decision you made.

 

[Kalamoj]

I mean, I can definitely see how I'd be really concerned if I had a habit of saying terrible things and expecting no one to hold me accountable.

How often do you really find yourself saying "but who took the video tho?" in situations where powerful men are caught with their asses hanging out?

Click to shrink...

It's not about that, just normal people doing normal business.
Will this person post a photo if my ass literally hanging out?
If one of my employee tells bad shit, will he/she ruin my company without approaching me first?

 

[Dremorak]

Very brave choice. If you stick to your guns everything works out I find

 

[floridaguy954]

I eat shit all the time to put food on the table. I respect and am impressed by your decision, but I would swallow that sort of thing if it meant trouble for my wife and my family.

Click to shrink...

Honestly, I feel the same.

I would have endured the client's sexist bullshit until I found a better client and then dropped him.

 

[SugarNoodles]

It's not about that, just normal people doing normal business.
Will this person post a photo if my ass literally hanging out?
If one of my employess tell bad shit, will he/she ruin my company without approaching me first?

Click to shrink...

Ruin your company? What fantasy world do you live in? You say "this sexist employee has been terminated" and then you talk a bit about the sensitivity training that you should have already had you employees do to avoid this sort of thing.

And no they're not going to post a picture of you with your ass hanging out unless by "ass hanging out" you mean video of you whining about how unfair it is for sexist men to be held accountable for being sexist.

 

[Yung Coconut]

Please elaborate on this bit right here:

Specifically the part where shaming people who deserve to be shamed "your own words" means running to social media with a weak spine because you couldn't handle sexism in a "private business setting" (why does it matter that it's private?)

Also shaming people who deserve to be publically shamed is the result of poor business judgement?

Click to shrink...

My own words? Eh? I simply stated how your peers in your industry and any potential clients that might have done work with you in the future are going to view it. Lots of unfortunate consequences for doing what you think is right. So yeah, if you care about your career you should probably assess if the moral wrong you witnessed is worth publicly outing what is expected to be private. The sexist pig isn't going to get kicked out of his sexist business boys club and no one is going to remember him in a few months while he continues making money. It's going to take way more than what the OP described for anything to happen to this guy. Way way way more. Because he's a sexist living in a majority sexist world. But everyone will remember the privacy concerns and business judgement you displayed and it will follow you forever.

But you can make your own decisions. It's pointless arguing with you about reality. It doesn't matter what I think about anything. I'm just telling you how airing your private business grievances publicly on social media is going to play out for your future.

 

[Burli]

Massive respect dude, you're one of the good ones.

 

[Felt]

There's really no right move here (catch 22 and all that). I would have finished the project and then declined further business.

Honestly they probably have no idea why you left lol. You know people like that, they probably thought you were just a "crazy artist".

 

[Deleted member 15666]

What if someone insulted your mom/daughter/significant other/sister and said they were not good at thinking? Because that's essentially what this client did by saying ALL women can't think. OP is right tell the client to fuck off but I hope your livelihood won't be severely affected by this and you can find an even better and more profitable client elsewhere.

 

[Brinbe]

Just posting to say good on you, OP. World would be a much better place with more like you. Respect

 

[SugarNoodles]

My own words? Eh? I simply stated how your peers in your industry and any potential clients that might have done work with you in the future are going to view it. Lots of unfortunate consequences for doing what you think is right. So yeah, if you care about your career you should probably assess if the moral wrong you witnessed is worth publicly outing what is expected to be private. The sexist pig isn't going to get kicked out of his sexist business boys club and no one is going to remember him in a few months while he continues making money. It's going to take way more than what the OP described for anything to happen to this guy. Way way way more. Because he's a sexist living in a majority sexist world. But everyone will remember the privacy concerns and business judgement you displayed and it will follow you forever.

Click to shrink...

That doesn't even come close to explaining your words and phrasing but it seems like you know better than to double down.

 

[Deleted member 31199]

Yeah that is definitely rough. I am not sure I would have dropped him immediately but might have done so pretty soon after.

 

[Muu]

Mad respect for sticking to your values. That said, I hope you don't have too many small business owners as your clientele -- it'd be an understatement to say that a great many of them have unfortunately strong opinions on a lot of things.