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I don't want forced/default PC crossplay in my games devs. Please stop it.
- Thread starter TheRulingRing
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For eg Battlefield I dont need Crossplay. BF is a PC franchise and I would bet it will sell more on PC than on console if I look at other recent releases like Cyberpunk which als was made by a studio primaruly developing for PC.
BF games always had a big player base on PC.
For CoD crossplay was really good because CoD MPs usually die quickly on PC and most my friends play on console.
Still in CoD it was so annoying playing against console players. The auto-aim snap on was so heavy (tried it myself at my friends place) and being stunned on PC was certain death while with a controller you could just hold the stick in a direction to still be able to aim.
No offense against console here but thats something I noticed and I often could actually tell from the killcam if the enemy was on console or not.
BF games always had a big player base on PC.
For CoD crossplay was really good because CoD MPs usually die quickly on PC and most my friends play on console.
Still in CoD it was so annoying playing against console players. The auto-aim snap on was so heavy (tried it myself at my friends place) and being stunned on PC was certain death while with a controller you could just hold the stick in a direction to still be able to aim.
No offense against console here but thats something I noticed and I often could actually tell from the killcam if the enemy was on console or not.
I want to be able to get into a match quickly with my friends no matter where they are coming from. I also want it cheater free and as fair as possible. I don't want to have to think about opt-in our opt-out options. I want the developers to make opinionated choices around mixing populations based on play testing and data.
I'm a PC player, play in a 3440x1440 monitor at 120 fps with M/Kb and I get stomped by PS and Xbox players.
I think at least COD has a great balance.
I agree that finding just one cheater per week is frustrating, but opt in as an option is not the real solution.
I think at least COD has a great balance.
I agree that finding just one cheater per week is frustrating, but opt in as an option is not the real solution.
OP is talking about shooters but I'm here to inform the world that every single multiplatform fighting game on PC should have crossplay enabled by default. SFV, Power Rangers, etc. have proven it works and does wonders.
I don't think most of the console players are offended. There is a big difference between mouse and keyboard and gamepad and while I'm not saying they should never cross and it is up to the developers, any game, I was serious about that forced cross-play would probably make me drop it. When I went up against PC players in cod it was annoying. Not because of anything they are doing personally. But because they could do things that my controls didn't allow me to do. It doesn't mean I lost every fight or anything. It just meant that my normal playstyle which works on console didn't work in that environment. So it kind of became a muddled mess in how to approach situations.
Fighting games definitely need cross play. It's a genre that would benefit greatly from it be enabled off the bat for all platforms. It would be absolute madness for fighting games not to have this in their games going forward.
Edit: Yes. I read the OP and understand that this is pointed at shooters (which I don't agree with their stance). I always take the opportunity to talk about the current state of crossplay in fighting games.
Edit: Yes. I read the OP and understand that this is pointed at shooters (which I don't agree with their stance). I always take the opportunity to talk about the current state of crossplay in fighting games.
This feels like a weirdly shooter-centric argument, and mostly about how different inputs might affect player performance on these.
Inputs have more variance than this. Should we also split Switch players apart because they can use gyro aiming? Should we put PC players using a controller with the rest of the PC player or can they play with console users? What about console players in games that support mouse and keyboard? Would players using a keyboard and mouse converter outright be banned?
And, shooters aren't the single genre out there. Other games might not have such a different experience or skill ceilings with different inputs. Platformers, fighters, etc. This thread feels like a weird overgeneralization for the sake of a few shooter players.
Inputs have more variance than this. Should we also split Switch players apart because they can use gyro aiming? Should we put PC players using a controller with the rest of the PC player or can they play with console users? What about console players in games that support mouse and keyboard? Would players using a keyboard and mouse converter outright be banned?
And, shooters aren't the single genre out there. Other games might not have such a different experience or skill ceilings with different inputs. Platformers, fighters, etc. This thread feels like a weird overgeneralization for the sake of a few shooter players.
I'm not part of that scene but it seems fine to me there. I know people who are serious tend to use arcade pads but that option is available to people in either platform it seems like. It doesn't seem like mouse and keyboard would convey any undue advantages in that situation from an outsider looking in.
I pretty much agree with everything you said OP. It's really frustrating when I wanna play Black Ops Cold War with my Xbox buddy but the game decides it wants to sprinkle in keyboard and mouse players. I honestly just cannot compete with them and their reaction times. Add in the skill based matchmaking, and it's just a not fun experience. I'm not asking for easy kills, I just want lobbies with controller only players, even if it means dealing with the SBMM.
This thread is about shooters and the op probably could make it more clear about that but honestly until some of the stuff like among us really hit, shooters are probably the most popular form of crossplay in the market at the moment. I don't think its a niche or at least its the biggest niche arguably.
The crossplay and how its handled is probably a genre by genre discussion. For instance when it comes to co-op games as a general statement, mixing inputs doesn't bother me in the least even in shooters. Because I am not being forced to go one on one against somebody with a different control input.
Maybe you should work on your own game play instead of blaming PC players. The MKB excuse is tiring already and the reality is your just not that good as you think you are.
Rocket Arena did opt-in and the player base ended up being so small it's primarily recommended for console people to turn it on. I think I would prefer being able to play with more people (especially when the playerbase starts to dwindle) and have the option of turning it off when I can't deal with it (i.e. getting tilted by the heavy aim assist that controller users have in the Halo MCC).
Stuff like this just Shows that crossplay with pc is bad. Besides cheaters and input device.
forums.battlefield.com
Battlefield | Forum | EA Answers HQ | EN
Check out the Answers HQ community forums for the Battlefield franchise.
forums.battlefield.com
Why did you ignore the part in where I said that the same input should be prioritized?
I play on PC and I only use my Switch for exclusives. But if you're basing your argument on my prefered platform all I can say is lol
Unless you're playing in some really competitive mode, this honestly never feels like an issue. Been playing FPS on PC for many years and using high settings vs the many people I know will be using low.Stuff like this just Shows that crossplay with pc is bad. Besides cheaters and input device.
Battlefield | Forum | EA Answers HQ | EN
Check out the Answers HQ community forums for the Battlefield franchise.
This seems so damn silly as an issue.Stuff like this just Shows that crossplay with pc is bad. Besides cheaters and input device.
Battlefield | Forum | EA Answers HQ | EN
Check out the Answers HQ community forums for the Battlefield franchise.
Fighting games are probably the one exception I think(hope) people agree that it needs crossplay
Yeah I agree, depends on the anti-cheat system in place. Games that focus more on ranked/esports competition is generally going to have a solid anti-cheat system more than say Fall Guys where they have nothing place.
My argument is that console gamers don't gain alot through crossplay. In fact their experience get worse through it at least for the bigger games.
Agree with OP, although personally I don't mind if it's opt-out. When it comes to shooters that support crossplay, the first thing I do is turn it off. It's unfortunate that there's no way to filter PC out, because I actually want crossplay with Xbox users. Also, I've had zero issues finding matches online on PS4/5, so I'm not so sure if it's only a minority that disables it. Where are the stats that show a majority of console players have it enabled in shooters?
My issue with crossplay is that folks cheat on PC on COD Warzone. I win some, i lose some. I dont think it is an issue of skill for me. I just want to be more even in terms of survivability.
Also, I have amazing internet, 1000mbps, the consoles obviously have slower connections and whatnot but I hate how sometimes right as i get into the gun fight it starts lagging like crazy and freezing just as I start shooting. It is like they know and flip the lag switch right there. I thought folks stopped doing this on Socom on PS2.
Also, I have amazing internet, 1000mbps, the consoles obviously have slower connections and whatnot but I hate how sometimes right as i get into the gun fight it starts lagging like crazy and freezing just as I start shooting. It is like they know and flip the lag switch right there. I thought folks stopped doing this on Socom on PS2.
Console gaming does suffer as a result of forced PC crossplay, I straight up don't care what anyone has to say otherwise.
When you are playing on a console, you are essentially paying for a gatekeeping mechanism in multiple ways.
1) They're dedicated hardware with dedicated software, unlike a PC, so they are mainly single purpose items.
2) There's more general standardization with the input (though this is starting to become more of a thing in the console space, for better and worse).
3) Online console players have to pay for a paywall to play many multiplayer games (not F2P now), and this is mainly a gatekeeping mechanism to dissuade not abiding by rules of the service.
People can and do consciously choose to play on consoles for all of those valid reasons, and why should those people be forced to sacrifice their desires for the desires of others? Why should it be forced? (The answer is in reality because it makes the most money)
I think opt-in crossplay on the console users end is preferred, this way the console base keeps its integrity, and crossplay people get a bigger pool of players by default. But I doubt this becomes the norm. It will probably be the exception. It's all about consolidation and casting the widest net.
When you are playing on a console, you are essentially paying for a gatekeeping mechanism in multiple ways.
1) They're dedicated hardware with dedicated software, unlike a PC, so they are mainly single purpose items.
2) There's more general standardization with the input (though this is starting to become more of a thing in the console space, for better and worse).
3) Online console players have to pay for a paywall to play many multiplayer games (not F2P now), and this is mainly a gatekeeping mechanism to dissuade not abiding by rules of the service.
People can and do consciously choose to play on consoles for all of those valid reasons, and why should those people be forced to sacrifice their desires for the desires of others? Why should it be forced? (The answer is in reality because it makes the most money)
I think opt-in crossplay on the console users end is preferred, this way the console base keeps its integrity, and crossplay people get a bigger pool of players by default. But I doubt this becomes the norm. It will probably be the exception. It's all about consolidation and casting the widest net.
Give me the choice of turning off PC players, those that want to play with PC friends/opponents leave it on. I'd rather just play between consoles...
Just to be clear my issue with forced crossplay is the randomness it brings to the gameplay in shooters. When you play a shooter because of skill level and the what a gamepad is capable of, once you gain some experience in a game, you have a pretty clear expectation of what is possible in certain situations. You know when you can run, and hide, and challenge people in certain situations. But when you are in mixed lobbies those expectations are now all over the place. Where you could have sprinted before now is variable. Where you can pop your head up and check on something is now variable. Because despite whatever the skill parameters in the game say, different control inputs excel in different things in these situations. So I find that inconsistency frustrating.
I don't want to ever stop people with different inputs from being able to play with each other. And sometimes I do want to play with players on PC and put myself in that situation when in a grouped party because I know what I'm getting into when I do that. But by default, I don't really care for it. At least in most of the shooters I care about. Cross input is cool to me always. But as a console player, forced mixed input doesn't do a lot for me in shooters unless its a co-op situation.
I don't want to ever stop people with different inputs from being able to play with each other. And sometimes I do want to play with players on PC and put myself in that situation when in a grouped party because I know what I'm getting into when I do that. But by default, I don't really care for it. At least in most of the shooters I care about. Cross input is cool to me always. But as a console player, forced mixed input doesn't do a lot for me in shooters unless its a co-op situation.
Not required at all, the issue is way overblown.
KB&M support on console would be cool, though.
Strongly, strongly disagree with this.
Being able to play with my friends no matter what device we all decided to buy is a huge plus and we literally buy and play games based on crossplay support.
not to mention, controller mod hacks are way less detectable than PC hacks.
What do you mean? I don't see why I should have to play with only PC people to play with my friend on PC. Part of the point of cross play is bigger userbase with a bigger pool of skills. I dont want to shrink my userbase lol. Thats why skill based match making exists.
Strongly agree with putting in an opt out vs PC players. People on here pretending there are no advantages for playing on PC are laughable. Just the aim speed and precision of a mouse alone tips the scales, and then when you add things like the ability to play at super high FPS, high refresh rate monitors, scale down settings to improve visibility, and ability to map the keyboard to drop shot and jump around like a lunatic are huge advantages.
I can maybe understand having options for the bigger titles like Fortnite, but the vast majority of the games out there would suffer from it and there are so many cases of games that would be MUCH better due to crossplay as their userbase is relatively small on each platform. It is so easy to find someone in Power Rangers: Battle for the Grid (one of the smallest fighters out there) due to crossplay, yet significantly bigger titles like Dragon Ball FighterZ you will struggle to find players unless you want to play very specific days and hours. Part of that is due to FighterZ having much worse netcode, but thats not really the point here.
Also honestly it really depends on the kind of game and community. The vast majority of my games in Halo multiplayer on PC you can see 9/10 users are using a controller. Crossplay has completely rejuvenated the community for this game too. You can find matches in just about any mode in any style you want at any time of the day! Before they added crossplay it felt like people only focused on like two games in the Master Chief Collection.
The topic of cheaters running rampant on PC is so incredibly overblown too. I do not play Call of Duty to be fair, but I seriously never see it in the dozens of PC titles I play online - And even then you can pretty easily flag users for that kind of stuff anyways. Cracked consoles are the real breeding grounds for cheaters online. Late in PlayStation 3s life was the worst I have ever experienced.
Also honestly it really depends on the kind of game and community. The vast majority of my games in Halo multiplayer on PC you can see 9/10 users are using a controller. Crossplay has completely rejuvenated the community for this game too. You can find matches in just about any mode in any style you want at any time of the day! Before they added crossplay it felt like people only focused on like two games in the Master Chief Collection.
The topic of cheaters running rampant on PC is so incredibly overblown too. I do not play Call of Duty to be fair, but I seriously never see it in the dozens of PC titles I play online - And even then you can pretty easily flag users for that kind of stuff anyways. Cracked consoles are the real breeding grounds for cheaters online. Late in PlayStation 3s life was the worst I have ever experienced.
Interesting post OP, I personally like cross-play a lot and probably would have struggled through 2020 without it.
Regardless of my own feelings though, I'm not sure this supposition that users don't know about in game options or don't care to tailor them to their own liking is sound. The increased demand for and availability of accessibility options or the same for performance vs quality modes seems to fly contrary to the often held as fact dumb user argument.
People seem to happily make changes to their settings where there is a compelling reason to do so.
No-one appears to be incapable of switching to inverted, southpaw or any other control scheme that specifically aids them. People don't seem to be actively choosing not to turn on/off subtitles as they see fit. Hell, there's a huge number of games [RPGs, looters etc.] where spending times in a menu screen is basically a mandatory part of the game. As a result I don't see why, if people were genuinely bothered by cross-play, they wouldn't just turn it off. Particularly given it seems to have mostly been pretty well signposted in the cross-play games I've played.
I guess I wonder if you genuinely are playing with - as you yourself put it - a decimated player base on the largest single console platform that it may not speak to people being unable or unwilling to change it but may instead go some way to supporting the notion that most players are actively enjoying and benefitting from cross-play and therefore don't want to turn it off.
Anyway, interesting post OP, thanks for sharing your thoughts. Have a great day.
in halo mcc on pc the aim assist and bullet magnetism is strong to the point that controller has an advantage over kb+m. back when I played Reach you could shoot people around corners.
Any advantage a controller mod via cronus etc. can deliver on a console is not even close to what an aimbot or wallhack can do on PC.
Whatever the skill numbers say, they don't account for what its actually feels like when you play against somebody on a completely different input. I'm all for skill based matchmaking but whatever those number systems generate don't fully encompass what it feels like to play against those different inputs imo.
I've genuinely played maybe 600+ hours of shooters on PC and have encountered less than 3 obvious hackers I can remember.
The mouse vs controller situation is so overblown. Another box to check in the "reasons i lost a gunfight besides they were better than me". People cant admit they lost. Plenty on controller players dominate in Warzone, it is fine. The real problem is cheaters.
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