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TheRulingRing

Banned
Apr 6, 2018
5,713
Edit - You will still still be able to play with your friends with opt-in.



CoD, Destiny, Fortnite, now Battlefield. Many of these games I'm interested in are forcing PC crossplay on us console peasants when we never asked for it.

I'm happy to play with Xbox/PS users together, but PC is an entirely different ballgame.

MnK has an advantage and can do things controller users can't dream of (no, aim assist doesn't make up for this at all). In Battlefield MnK users have a massive advantage when aiming with vehicles - turrets can turn in a flash with mouse and there's no aim assist in vehicles on a controller. In Destiny the mobility means MnK has an advantage there too. In Fortnite the building gives MnK users another big advantage. CoD is probably the closest to "balance".

And then we come to hackers/cheaters. They may or may not be rampant on PC, but even coming across 1 a week is enough to sour anyone's experience. In Destiny in particular hackers run absolutely riot in high end PvP and will absolutely ruin the console experience when crossplay comes in. (In the past year of console play I've come across maybe one team I've suspected of hacking, and even that wasn't blatant)

Also (less of an issue), PC players can tweak visual settings to give themselves an extra advantage, whether that be in high framerate or turning down visual effects to get a better view of enemies.


And one final thing - opt-out is NOT a solution. If crossplay is on as default and you opt out then you're playing with a decimated playerbase number, since most people probably won't even know you can turn it off.

The only acceptable solution is how Fortnite initially did it - opt-in. If you party up with PC players then you go into PC lobbies. That's fine and entirely optionally allows you to play with friends on PC.
 
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Teamocil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,133
I do. just add an option for those that don't want it to opt-out. simple. and yes, I saw your note on opt out. I don't agree
 

TaterTots

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,965
I'm fine with it and I think aim assist does help. I've done really well in Apex Legends and other games using a controller.
 

Berserker976

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,425
totally agree with you, OP. When it comes to twitch shooters, PC cross-play should be opt-in unless you have a PC player in your party.

That's the way Apex does it and I'm very thankful for that. I'd also like to hear a convincing counterargument that amounts to something more than "I do not agree."
 

Lukar

Unshakable Resolve - Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,410
As someone who primarily plays on PC nowadays and has had to deal with CoD games being dead within months of release until Modern Warfare came out, that's gonna be a hard disagree from me. If crossplay isn't the default, then PC players won't have anyone to play with. Yeah, hackers can sometimes be an issue, but it sucks for the rest of us who just want to play the damn game.
 

RaySpencer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,666
Considering big twitch streamers were using controller on PC in Warzone last year because it had advantages over mouse and keyboard leads me to believe things can be fine.

Making it opt-in would ruin the whole thing, so I disagee with all of this.

Dead by Daylight has full cross play, and it's amazing,
 

Relix

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,223
Hell naw. Allows me and my friends to play. Cod handles the controller and MK division pretty well. Do it like that.
 

Sargerus

▲ Legend ▲
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
20,849
I can finally play CoD again on PC thanks to crossplay, so devs, don't listen to OP.
 

ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,364
Massively disagree personally but opt out options would presumably keep all parties happy here.

You are always gonna have advantages and disadvantages when playing online against other players. A player using a mouse of keyboard isn't instantly more proficient than you. There are other factors, such as skill level for one, that are just as much tipping the balance of 'fairness'. To me, input device is super low down the list of reasons to split playerbases up. Even within a group of controller users only there are variations in input device. Is it unfair when I play COD that my controller has paddles so I jump, spin around and shoot or reload all without taking my thumbs off the sticks? Or that my controller has trigger stops so my triggers are basically binary buttons with no more throw than a face button so I can shoot faster? Maybe, yeah. Doesn't stop other controller users kicking my ass on the regular.
 

Jimnymebob

Member
Oct 26, 2017
19,636
The Fortnite way when it was consoles only but playing with PC players when you joined a PC party was the best, even if it did make it noticeably harder for a console player at times, but that method kinda depends on your game having Fortnite's player base, which not many have.
 

Deleted member 8901

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,522
Snipers only mosh pit in COD is basically all PC players dunking on console players. Literally no point of that mode for console players. I would love if crossplay defaulted to console only or at least filter by input method.

Not to even mention the graphics setting advantages PC players have in games like Warzone where they can go up to like 100+ FOV and console players are stuck with 60 or whatever the shit FOV they locked in.
 

Stoney Mason

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,920
Depends on the game. Cross input is fine. But if you are mixing inputs then that's a slightly different thing depending on the game. There are some where it should absolute not be default turned on. While some others are less bad in that regard.
 

cowbanana

Member
Feb 2, 2018
13,712
a Socialist Utopia
Keep it on, please. OP is wrong. More crossplay is good. Hacking is far from a PC exclusive problem and generally I've never really perceived it as a problem worth thinking about.
 

Mass Effect

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 31, 2017
16,793
Also (less of an issue), PC players can tweak visual settings to give themselves an extra advantage, whether that be in high framerate or turning down visual effects to get a better view of enemies.

So you're against enhanced console players playing with base console owners too then, yes? Xbox One X players shouldn't be allowed to play with Xbox One S players? PS5/Series X players shouldn't be playing against PS4/XB1/Series S players?

And one final thing - opt-out is NOT a solution. If crossplay is on as default and you opt out then you're playing with a decimated playerbase number, since most people probably won't even know you can turn it off.

Cross play being opt in is pointless. Why even bother going through the effort if it's something that 90% of people won't even turn on?

And yes, opt out IS a solution, because anyone that hates it that much will turn it off. How is that an issue?
 

Normal

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,296
I agree the fortnite way is the best way to do cross play with pc and consoles.
 

DWarriorSN

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,135
PA
I never notice the difference lol, the majority of pc players are as bad as console players for the most part.
 

Nabs

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,695
I like it as long as I have a choice. I hate playing against controller auto-aim.
 

platypotamus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,373
Honestly, if you are a developer with enough scale to do it, and you dont support full crossplay of your multiplayer titles, you are a monster
 

alphacat

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,932
Definitely want more crossplay

Sucks that MHW still doesn't support it
 

Stoney Mason

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,920
Keep it on, please. OP is wrong. More crossplay is good. Hacking is far from a PC exclusive problem and generally I've never really perceived it as a problem worth thinking about.
While your opinion is fine it is a big problem and its way more prevalant on PC games ala Warzone. Now you could also argue that Warzone should have better cheat detection but that game is rife with cheating on the PC platform and its why a lot of console players turn off crossplay in that game.
 

Deleted member 1839

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,625
I doubt OP is thinking about FGs, considering their issue is entirely with mouse and keyboard.

Oh I know I read the OP but they should make the title more specific on that. Then again even in regards to fighters I've still seen the same trash opinion on crossplay in regards to them that just make me go..

ZgUI4FopTcqrEsU_wyg__I0djAVP6MYJKb_xvtBv5jM.jpg
 

Lube Man

Alt-Account
Banned
Jan 18, 2021
1,247
OP, I agree with you 100%. Unfortunately, we are willing to ruin the experience as long as everyone's experience is ruined. It's not a hill I would die on as everyone is super sensitive about crossplay like it's a religion.

PC community is so massive and praised as leading the industry, yet they need console players to matchmake faster and avoid cheaters. Not sure if it's right to say "everyone gets an atypical experience".

I dont play competitive games anymore, because the competition is juicing. Shooters are a complete no-no for me when talking about crossplay. Other genres are fine tbh.
 

demondance

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,808
Crossplay rocks, let the matchmaking sort out who should play against who.

Aim assist shouldn't be discounted as a relevant factor here, it can be a downright advantage against average M&KB players in a game like Apex.

Considering big twitch streamers were using controller on PC in Warzone last year because it had advantages over mouse and keyboard leads me to believe things can be fine.

Exactly. The rise of crossplay has dispelled a lot of notions about what M&KB vs. controller players would be like in practice, but a lot of people are clinging to those assumptions. In ancient games like Quake 3 the difference was massive, but in these ADS shooters with heavy controller aim assist, it's a different story.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,968
MnK has an advantage, but as the level of skill across player various dramatically it's not a massive deal. My friend has been playing on PC with a gamepad in competitive shooters for the last decade, and he's constantly at the top of the board.
 

Stoney Mason

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,920
If anything, aiming on controller is 100x easier than mouse and keyboard. Also, with shit like the Chronus Max, there are cheaters on console too. Not all PC players are cheaters.
No one said all PC players are cheating but the number of people using a chronus max versus the type of cheating that goes on, with the PC platform is a drop in the ocean.
 

Deleted member 8468

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
9,109
Many games (like Call of Duty) do cross play based on input. So anyone using m+kb is lumped together, and controller folks are lumped together. I use it to play with other controller folks on PC, so I don't get demolished by the m+kb folk.

I can't see opt-out as a bad solution. You'd be playing with that same 'decimated' player base in your hardware ecosystem without cross play.
 

defaltoption

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
11,486
Austin
I do. just add an option for those that don't want it to opt-out. simple. and yes, I saw your note on opt out. I don't agree
Don't listen to this dude devs, keep doin' it.
It's absolutely better to have it forced then to not have it at all.

Im okay with the option if it's on by default but if it's ever everyone together or nothing at all I choose everyone together.

The focus should be on better anticheat for every platform and higher framerates and more input options for consoles.
 

Tora

The Enlightened Wise Ones
Member
Jun 17, 2018
8,640
Mnk advantage is severely overestimated because it's assuming that everyone that plays on PC is a god for some reason.

There are quite a few fortnite pro's that use controllers too

I will say though that I understand your frustration to an extent; all of my console friends (and I mean all lmfao) have turned off crossplay on Warzone, but I assume that it's more down to cheaters that make their way into lobbies. In this case, the focus should be on improving anti cheat because fundamentally, KnM isn't the problem in most cases.
 
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Deleted member 9330

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,990
Sorry OP, I have to massively disagree. If you're enjoying a game you want the biggest player base possible to keep it going long-term. Not to mention just the benefits of being able to play with your friends from anywhere.

Also (less of an issue), PC players can tweak visual settings to give themselves an extra advantage, whether that be in high framerate or turning down visual effects to get a better view of enemies.

Also no offense but this is just hella dumb. Enhanced consoles vs base consoles? Should PC players only be allowed to play with others that have the same settings?
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,106
Crossplay needs to continue but I 100% agree that it needs to be opt in rather than opt out so it doesn't severely affect the console player base. Defaults exert powerful influence on behaviour.
 
Oct 31, 2017
9,623
I agree with you OP 100%, but I think most people won't unfortunately. There's a ton of reasons I buy and play games on consoles, in particular multiplayer games, and this is one of the reasons.

If I wanted to play on PC with and against PC users, I'd buy my games on PC. But I don't.

PC/console cross play is mostly a boon to PC gamers as it's nothing but a net gain for them (gaining access to the console playerbase with none of the "negatives" of buying into that space).

As a lifelong, conscious console gamer, seeing the proliferation of "opt-out" cross play is not something I want.

It especially sucks if console players are punished for not wanting cross play by decimating their ability to matchmake (which is another thing I'm for versus server lists).
 
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