I don't really like God of War, and here's why

Firmament1 · Sep 17, 2019

Richter1887 said:
The arrows were put in for accesability reasons. They were not necessary.

So why put them there by default? Games don't tend to have subtitles on by default either, even if that would be better for accessibility.

TheModestGun said:
So do you think you have any visual awareness of anything besides whats in front of you in games like RE4 or in first person shooters?

The encounter design is specifically designed in such a way that it accounts for your camera "shortcomings", if you want to call them that.

Either way. It really just sounds like you were looking for a different kind of game. Which is fine, but I wouldn't call any of what GOW's main combat mechanics do as any sort of real "design flaw".

In RE4, arenas almost always have some sort of chokepoint. And they're generally way smaller and tighter, so you can just look forward, and you'll see most of your enemies, because all of them are specifically placed in your FOV.

As for FPS games, most of them are pretty damn linear. Their areas generally aren't massively open, or they have some sort of cover. Not to mention that most enemies stay far away from you, because they're shooting at you. And for games with open environments, they generally tend to give you much more mobility. See Titanfall 2 and DOOM. In those games, you can double jump, and in Titanfall's case, you can even wallrun. So you can just leap on a wall, and then gun down everyone while on there.

Not to mention that these games generally mean for you to engage them from a further distance than in God of War. Those games are SHOOTERS. Not melee-based action games.

And I generally don't tend to like games based around melee combat in first-person, for that reason.

Richter1887 · Sep 17, 2019

Firmament1 said:
So why put them there by default? Games don't tend to have subtitles on by default either, even if that would be better for accessibility.

For the same reasons they made the health bars on by default. Both were added late in developmet according to Cory.

Chronos · Sep 17, 2019

ThousandEyes said:
One part that I think was kind of bogus

Kratos never told Atreus about Calliope or Lysandra

Yep, a glaring omission in an otherwise stellar narrative.

AtomicShroom · Sep 17, 2019

Apathy said:
Would love to know what games your were part of that you can criticise so many aspects of it as if you did better

Oh because now one has to be better than a creator to judge their work, huh? I wonder what games all those game journos reviewing games for a living worked on that can criticize so many aspects of games. Makes total sense.

ThousandEyes · Sep 17, 2019

Chronos said:
Yep, a glaring omission in an otherwise stellar narrative.

supposedly Cory said they are saving that reveal for the next game

RF Switch · Sep 17, 2019

I had a different experience with the game. I honestly hated it and was forcing my self to play it...just because well everyone loved it. When I finally finished it and reflected back I was like wow what a game I hope there is dlc or a sequel sooner than later. I had the exact opposite thoughts on breath of the wild as the first 10-15 hours I thought it was the greatest game ever made, but in the end I thought it was a huge let down. I guess my opinions are broken

Proven · Sep 17, 2019

I also think there was at least some praise thrown toward God of War because it was a reinvention of the series that had become stale. I'm curious how the next game builds on what was a very strong reboot.

Firmament1 · Sep 17, 2019

Richter1887 said:
For the same reasons they made the health bars on by default. Both were added late in development according to Cory.

That reason being?

TheModestGun · Sep 17, 2019

Firmament1 said:
So why put them there by default? Games don't tend to have subtitles on by default either, even if that would be better for accessibility.

In RE4, arenas almost always have some sort of chokepoint. And they're generally way smaller and tighter, so you can just look forward, and you'll see most of your enemies, because all of them are specifically placed in your FOV.

As for FPS games, most of them are pretty damn linear. Their areas generally aren't massively open, or they have some sort of cover. Not to mention that most enemies stay far away from you, because they're shooting at you. And for games with open environments, they generally tend to give you much more mobility. See Titanfall 2 and DOOM. In those games, you can double jump, and in Titanfall's case, you can even wallrun. So you can just leap on a wall, and then gun down everyone while on there.

Not to mention that these games generally mean for you to engage them from a further distance than in God of War. Those games are SHOOTERS. Not melee-based action games.

And I generally don't tend to like games based around melee combat in first-person, for that reason.

Eh. Each to their own I guess. I think the positives of GOW4's combat and camera angle far outweigh any perceived negatives. The thing about it's combat is that it's all about positioning and managing enemies via a combination of yours and Atreus's abilities. If you don't effectively manage both of those aspects, then it's possible to get overwhelmed.

But almost any situation is accounted for when mixing and matching combos and abilities.

Deleted member 58846 · Sep 17, 2019

Firmament1 said:
That reason being?

Players complaining during play-testing, iirc

Richter1887 · Sep 17, 2019

Firmament1 said:
That reason being?

The indicator is there for the players who are not listening to the game using headsets and want to see it visually because it is harder without it as the game is more crowd control based.

As for the health bars, they were added late into the development because some of the devs felt they added more strategy to the encounters but were made optional because it wasn't the definitive way to play as it wasn't designed for it.

MegaSackman · Sep 17, 2019

The problem I see with this kind of post is that I can hear the condescending tone in them "listen, this is just my opinion and it's not a fact but I just happen to enjoy things that feel less dumb to me".

I understand why people do it, I often feel the same about other games and speak up but sadly is impossible for us to not feel "ofended" and react, it's just how we behave.

Diablos · Sep 17, 2019

Opinions, everyone has them! I really enjoy GOW, I've played through it twice and hope to go back to my latest save and do a lot of extra stuff, someday. But there are some valid criticisms of the game for sure, like basically every other game. Even GOTY-tier games have flaws. Every game that this forum adores in numerous threads and communities have a lot of people who disagree with its praise, and go to great lengths to explain why. It's nothing new, and it's healthy for the industry and community alike.

Firmament1 · Sep 17, 2019

Richter1887 said:
The indicator is there for the players who are not listening to the game using headsets and want to see it visually because it is harder without it as the game is more crowd control based.

As for the health bars, they were added late into the development because some of the devs felt they added more strategy to the encounters but were made optional because it wasn't the definitive way to play as it wasn't designed for it.

So why didn't they pull back the camera, to allow you to both see, AND hear what the enemies were doing? Wouldn't giving visual awareness, and allowing players to learn tells beyond just having to listen for SFX be more accessible?

MegaSackman said:
The problem I see with this kind of post is that I can hear the condescending tone in them "listen, this is just my opinion and it's not a fact but I just happen to enjoy things that feel less dumb to me".

I understand why people do it, I often feel the same about other games and speak up, but sadly it's impossible for us to not feel "offended" and react, it's just how we behave.

Then what am I supposed to do at this point? I changed the title to sound less pissed off, and I put a disclaimer at the beginning.

Deleted member 49438 · Sep 17, 2019

Firmament1 said:
ACTION game, or action adventure? Because action adventure is really broad. I'm talking action here, which means stuff like Devil May Cry 5, Astral Chain, Bayonetta 2, Assault Spy and Nioh.

I prefer all of those, by the way.

I found your problem OP. You're critiquing God of War 2018 like an action game because the other ones were action games. God of War 2018 is so a lot more on the Action/Adventure side of things.

Hey Please · Sep 17, 2019

I can't empathize with OP save a few details:

1. Camera- I do feel like that camera could be a touch more zoomed out. Because of the way Atreus works, going back to earlier GoW style would be unlikely.

One specific thing that did annoy me about the camera is that it is not friendliest when it comes to being able to successfully perceive where Kratos' feet are in relation to dropped items. This was a gigantic pain in my ass whilst fighting the Valkyries when they would drop the health stone and I would be frantically trying to step on top of it for the button prompt to appear- often times, in the heat of the battle I would not able to do so successfully to my detriment.

2. Variety- Yes, compared to earlier games, this one did lack variety in foes. If one watches the SSM's YT documentary, Raising Kratos, one would be informed that the turn around period from creating demo for Sony's management to approve to the full conceptualization for the entire game was around a year and a half. Suffice it to say, this would be very likely addressed in the sequel.

Firmament1 · Sep 17, 2019

Moirayn said:
I found your problem OP. You're critiquing God of War 2018 like an action game because the other ones were action games. God of War 2018 is so a lot more on the Action/Adventure side of things.

The problem is that the core gameplay is still the combat, even with the exploration added in.

Deleted member 49438 · Sep 17, 2019

Firmament1 said:
So why didn't they pull back the camera, to allow you to both see, AND hear what the enemies were doing? Wouldn't giving visual awareness, and allowing players to learn tells beyond just having to listen for SFX be more accessible?

Umm... having to turn around to keep track of enemies is part of visual awareness as well. In fact drawing out the camera entirely makes it so you hardly have to be aware, because it's all right there for you. Just seems like you don't like rotating the camera...

Richter1887 · Sep 17, 2019

Firmament1 said:
So why didn't they pull back the camera, to allow you to both see, AND hear what the enemies were doing? Wouldn't giving visual awareness, and allowing players to learn tells beyond just having to listen for SFX be more accessible?

Because they got a specific combat in mind?

They designed it around the camera and the SFX. If you don't want to use the SFX then the indicator is there for you as a way not to lock those players out.
The game is focused around crowd control. You can't do that when you can see everything the enemy is doing.

Apathy · Sep 17, 2019

AtomicShroom said:
Oh because now one has to be better than a creator to judge their work, huh? I wonder what games all those game journos reviewing games for a living worked on that can criticize so many aspects of games. Makes total sense.

Gotcha, something that isn't universally praised, considered game of the generation, great reboot and won game of year in one of the most stacked years ever, got it. You ready just sound mad considering the things you complained about the majority enjoyed

xxracerxx · Sep 17, 2019

Going with the RE4 comparison, how do you know enemies are behind you in that game?

It's because of the audio

Deleted member 58846 · Sep 17, 2019

Apathy said:
Gotcha, something that isn't universally praised, considered game of the generation, great reboot and won game of year in one of the most stacked years ever, got it. You ready just sound mad considering the things you complained about the majority enjoyed

So are criticisms for games like Red Dead Redemption 2, Breath of the Wild, or The Witcher 3 also unacceptable unless you've worked on a GOAT game? Just wondering, especially since I have seen you be critical of those ones before yourself. Did you work on a GOAT game?

Firmament1 · Sep 17, 2019

Richter1887 said:
The game is focused around crowd control. You can't do that when you can see everything the enemy is doing.

Funny, because I remember God of War 3's combat working just fine.

Firmament1 · Sep 17, 2019

xxracerxx said:
Going with the RE4 comparison, how do you know enemies are behind you in that game?

It's because of the audio

I decided to just run past everyone until I was able to see all of the enemies, and then pick them off based on whether they had ranged attacks or not. So enemies generally didn't show up behind me. Need I remind you that Resident Evil 4 has chokepoints that you use to see everyone easily, and then wipe them out with a shotgun or grenade.

Also, God of War isn't a shooter.

Richter1887 · Sep 17, 2019

Firmament1 said:
Funny, because I remember God of War 3's combat working just fine.

Because God of War 3 is a vastly different direction.

For one, the axe wouldn't work in 3. You need to aim the axe and shoot enemies with it.

Mudo · Sep 17, 2019

Your opinion is fine just like anyone else but I am on the other end of the spectrum.
I liked the other GOW games but I LOVE this new one. I feel like the series did need a shakeup and it's marvelous.
Sure there are some issues, but I loved the gameplay, even with tool restrictions because you still always have lots of other options and all the game systems gelled Into a great overall package. I love the "wide linear" that makes it more exploration focused.
I don't know, I just really enjoyed all the changes made and it's my favorite game in the series by far.
Different strokes and all :)

lowhighkang_LHK · Sep 17, 2019

Xavi said:
OP it's not going end well for you if you dislike a game ERA loves, no matter how big you make the Disclaimer. That's how this forum works.

That and nobody reads the fucking OP anymore.

Deleted member 49438 · Sep 17, 2019

Firmament1 said:
The problem is that the core gameplay is still the combat, even with the exploration added in.

And in this game, the gameplay was a vehicle for the story/themes, not the other way around like in most action games.

Deleted member 1003 · Sep 17, 2019

I remember last year, for one or two weeks, Era had a "Here is why Horizon ZD sucks". Deja vu with GoW this year.

I'm popping the popcorn.

Firmament1 · Sep 17, 2019

Richter1887 said:
Because God of War 3 is a vastly different direction.

For one, the axe wouldn't work in 3. You need to aim the axe and shoot enemies with it.

My point is that God of War 3 is based around Crowd Control: You said that because 2018 is crowd control based, it has to be zoomed in, otherwise being able to see everyone would ruin it.

And even if this was a shooter... Infamous Second Son, and Assassin's Creed Origins exist. You can have a game with a perfectly good FOV that zooms in when you want to aim at things further away.

xxracerxx · Sep 17, 2019

Firmament1 said:
I decided to just run past everyone until I was able to see all of the enemies, and then pick them off based on whether they had ranged attacks or not. So enemies generally didn't show up behind me. Need I remind you that Resident Evil 4 has chokepoints that you use to see everyone easily, and then wipe them out with a shotgun or grenade.

Also, God of War isn't a shooter.

Even if that is the way you play, that isn't how everyone plays. RE4 open areas were designed with a lot of ways for enemies to get behind you and was designed with that in mind and made it obvious with their sound design. You can play GoW 2018 the same way you played RE4...run to the far end of an arena and turn around.

ElephantShell · Sep 17, 2019

The camera was a bit too tight. I would have preferred it pulled back a little.

Ninja_Hawk · Sep 17, 2019

I don't see the camera as inherently flawed because of how close it is, if you can easily adjust and maneuver it mid-combat. At that point it becomes a part of the system. Another mechanic you have to work with. You can argue this makes for a less accessible experience, but there are cameras that obstruct your view or don't allow you to properly grasp the landscape of the combat scenario. These are far more legitimate issues.

Richter1887 · Sep 17, 2019

Firmament1 said:
My point is that God of War 3 is based around Crowd Control: You said that because 2018 is crowd control based, it has to be zoomed in, otherwise being able to see everyone would ruin it.

And even if this was a shooter... Infamous Second Son, and Assassin's Creed Origins exist. You can have a game with a perfectly good FOV that zooms in when you want to aim at things further away.

I wouldn't call it "based around crowd control" It was nowhere near close to how GOW4 is doing it. To succeed in GOW4 you need to juggle the enemies to be in one place so you can slash them all without anybody hiting you from the back. The sound effects are important in this one and you need to be mindful of where the enemies are.

GoW3 was more dodge based and audio wasn't important to the gameplay. It is in no way similiar to how it is done in this game.

Firmament1 · Sep 17, 2019

Richter1887 said:
I wouldn't call it "based around crowd control" It was nowhere near close to how GOW4 is doing it. To succeed in GOW4 you need to juggle the enemies to be in one place so you can slash them all without anybody hiting you from the back. The sound effects are important in this one and you need to be mindful of where the enemies are.

GoW3 was more dodge based instead. It is in no way similiar to how it is done in this game.

That's also what you do in God of War 3? You get them all in one place, and then you're able to use stuff like the Hades Claws and Blades of Chaos to hit all of them, all while making sure that no one else can get you.

Acido · Sep 17, 2019

I didn't like it either. I prefer the PS2 games by far.

Firmament1 · Sep 17, 2019

xxracerxx said:
Even if that is the way you play, that isn't how everyone plays. RE4 open areas were designed with a lot of ways for enemies to get behind you and was designed with that in mind and made it obvious with their sound design.

Okay, let's take the village for a second. That's the most obvious example of a more open level in RE4.

Even with the more open environments, the game still gives you a few directions to approach the crowd in the center: Straight in, or another path entirely. And after you piss everyone off, you can go inside a house, and then take advantage of the stairs to shoot those that try to come up that route, or barricade the door to prevent them from getting in that way.

The zombies might try to come in through the window with a ladder... But then you can just push down the ladder.

And there's another window that they might try, but you can just shoot them when they're trying to get in, climb through onto the roof, and then wait for enemies to jump over the window for you to shoot them.

In other words, the open areas of RE4 give a ton of chokepoints for you to take advantage of, that allow you to see, and then deal with all the enemies in the area effectively.

Also, need I remind you that Resident Evil 4 is a shooter: Not a melee based action game.

Richter1887 · Sep 17, 2019

Firmament1 said:
That's also what you do in God of War 3? You get them all in one place, and then you're able to use stuff like the Hades Claws and Blades of Chaos to hit all of them, all while making sure that no one else can get you.

Unlike 4, in God of War you can hit everyone mid combo by turning Kratos around. You don't really care where they stand. You dodge when needed and that's that.

There was no strategy in 3. I love the classic games but I can't say they ever required crowd control or strategy. Button mashing did it's thing.

Phantom · Sep 17, 2019

I agree with OP. Once the charm of the initial hour or two waves off, it's just a typical action game again. The lack of bosses and monster variety truly hurts it. The first boss battle is also the best one, afterwards it's all downhill.

Chumunga64 · Sep 17, 2019

Apathy said:
Gotcha, something that isn't universally praised, considered game of the generation, great reboot and won game of year in one of the most stacked years ever, got it. You ready just sound mad considering the things you complained about the majority enjoyed

Do you own Sony stock or something? It's okay not to like and criticize things

lowhighkang_LHK · Sep 17, 2019

jett said:
This game was definitely not as good as I remembered it on a replay. And I had even less patience for all the wack inventory management you have to do.

Yeah. I have no intention or desire to replay the game because of all the down-time. If new game plus allowed you to throw that stupid kid over the boat and just go back to killing dragon's and shit I'd be down. But then you have all the puzzles and walking segments...and it's like, eehh.

And the stupid RPG elements. Equip this to give +3% whatever the fuck resistance. Yeah, video game, stop. Just stop.

Having said that I enjoyed my playthrough of it. Like in a, look at this stupidly expensive high budget popcorn ass video game kind of way.

xxracerxx · Sep 17, 2019

Firmament1 said:
Okay, let's take the village for a second. That's the most obvious example of a more open level in RE4.

Even with the more open environments, the game still gives you a few directions to approach the crowd in the center: Straight in, or another path entirely. And after you piss everyone off, you can go inside a house, and then take advantage of the stairs to shoot those that try to come up that route, or barricade the door to prevent them from getting in that way.

The zombies might try to come in through the window with a ladder... But then you can just push down the ladder.

And there's another window that they might try, but you can just shoot them when they're trying to get in, climb through onto the roof, and then wait for enemies to jump over the window for you to shoot them.

In other words, the open areas of RE4 give a ton of chokepoints for you to take advantage of, that allow you to see, and then deal with all the enemies in the area effectively.

Also, need I remind you that Resident Evil 4 is a shooter: Not a melee based action game.

You do realize I was talking about the SOUND design of the games being similar in letting you know enemies are behind you. Your explanation of chokepoints is great, but not what I am talking about.

Mexen · Sep 17, 2019

jroc74 said:
See, I liked God of War alot more than HZD. Not saying I don't like it....but I'm not enjoying it as much as some, many have.

When I finally get a Switch, I think I'm making a thread for BotW. Not being funny, but I do wanna chime in if I like it or don't like it.

BotW was a weird one for me, I had a lot of fun when I just fooled around in the world. I remember hating the game sometimes when I tried to "follow the path" but overall, BotW was a good time for me. I enjoyed it more than HZD, that's for sure.

HZD made me realize that I no longer have the patience to play games on higher difficulties if I'm not fully engaged. I changed the difficulty to story and that's how I finished it. The first three hours and the last two were most memorable to me but for different reasons. The former had me interested in the mechanics and engaging with the world but it got boring, and the latter just had me wanting to know the whole story. I was past hiding in grass at that point.

On topic
GoW was a fun game for me. I really enjoyed it. I agree with boss fights not being varied enough but the combat was something I had fun with, that axe had a good sense of weight to it that I liked. I didn't really bother with leveling to completion because I was not very interested in that. But yeah, I liked GoW.

Firmament1 · Sep 17, 2019

Richter1887 said:
Unlike 4, in God of War you can hit everyone mid combo by turning Kratos around. You don't really care where they stand. You dodge when needed and that's that.

Oh yeah, you just reminded me of another thing I don't like about the game: The fact that slashing is mostly restricted to where the camera is pointing.

Richter1887 said:
There was no strategy in 3. I love the classic games but I can't say they ever required crowd control or strategy. Button mashing did it's thing.

Ah, so you've never dug deep into Old God of War.

Firmament1 · Sep 17, 2019

xxracerxx said:
You do realize I was talking about the SOUND design of the games being similar in letting you know enemies are behind you. Your explanation of chokepoints is great, but not what I am talking about.

I think we seem to have a different idea of what RE4's combat was based around. I think it's about using chokepoints to your advantage, above all, and thus, I don't think the sound and the camera aren't as important.

AllMight1 · Sep 17, 2019

did you play on Gimme God of War tho?
That one was challenging af.

Hybrid Rainbow · Sep 17, 2019

Xavi said:
OP it's not going end well for you if you dislike a game ERA loves, no matter how big you make the Disclaimer. That's how this forum works.

Yes, because Era is a giant hive mind and we dislike all outsiders. 🙄🙄🙄

LumberPanda · Sep 17, 2019

A thing I'd like to add is that while you're supposed to be throwing the axe in combat, aiming the axe is incredibly clunky and frustrating. This problem could've been solved if they added Gyro aiming to the game.

xxracerxx · Sep 17, 2019

Firmament1 said:
I think we seem to have a different idea of what RE4's combat was based around. I think it's about using chokepoints to your advantage, above all, and thus, I don't think the sound and the camera aren't as important.

We fundamentally disagree.

Fisty · Sep 17, 2019

OP I dont agree with your criticisms, but you at least laid them out well and werent unfair in your assessments.

I don't really like God of War, and here's why

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