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Firmament1

Member
Aug 15, 2019
1,288
DISCLAIMER: I'm not trying to say that my opinion is fact... I don't even know why I have to say this, but it seems that I have to these days.

To me, God of War 2018 is basically 80% of AAA-singleplayer games rolled up into one. It's got the following. Grindy sidequests, crafting, RPG elements, loot, open/semi-open world, over-the-shoulder camera, combat vaguely inspired by Souls (Without understanding what makes that game good), story about some parent and their kid/kid surrogate... This is what we call a "box-checker". The only thing that it needs now is crouched stealth based around throwing distraction objects. It's such a safe game in every sense of the word.

But I'm wasting time by complaining about modern trends over here. Let's get straight to my complaints.

The camera is a total mess. I have to ask: Why did we have to use an Over-the-shoulder camera in combat? In a primarily melee-focused action game? Couldn't we have just zoomed the camera the fuck out like in Ninja Gaiden: Razor's Edge, or Arkham, and then run with over-the-shoulder when out of combat? I genuinely can't think of any gameplay-related benefits with this perspective beyond just "iMmErSiOn". Now before you talk about the indicators, and Atreus/Mimir calling out to you, that just further proves my point. The fact that those are there just shows how fucked the camera is. And besides, those indicators are completely antithetical for learning enemy patterns, because now, most of the time I can just rely on the indicator to tell me if I'm going to get hit or not, since they're a universal tell. Yeah, maybe the camera in the Ascension got totally out of hand at times, but this just seems like a total overcorrection.

There's a serious lack of variety in the enemies. Variants of the standard enemy are fine, but when they all look so fucking similar, that just makes what I"m doing feel so much more repetitive. Fighting the same Draugr and Nightmares over, and over, and over again, is annoying as hell. Before you bring up Ninja Gaiden, or Devil May Cry, those games don't have 25 hour long campaigns. And sadly, this lack of variety extends to the boss fights too. We fight the same goddamn troll, and rock monster over, and over, and over again. We had all of Norse mythology at our fingertips! Why the hell did they just recycle the same fight constantly? Here are some ideas: Surtr could've been the Muspelheim boss instead of the Valkyrie! Or remember that big bird in the background of Helheim, Hraesvelgr? Couldn't THAT have been a cool setpiece fight? Or maybe to get the Bifrost, we have to fight Heimdall. There was so much wasted potential here. And let me just say that before you bring up DMC4, Dark Souls, or Ninja Gaiden's repeated bosses, I'd just like to say that those sucked ass too. Especially DMC4's.

The RPG elements are tacked on as hell. Not much to say about these aside from the fact that they're unnecessarily tedious. Seeing Kratos with new armour is cool and all, but couldn't those just be cosmetic? The RPG elements aren't simple enough that they can be ignored, but they're also not complex enough that they'll change how you play, unlike... Well, Dark Souls, where your strength and dex would determine what weapons could be used. This weird in-between just doesn't make any sense to me. I'm pretty sure that these were put in to service the focus on exploration... But I think that could've been better handled. I think exploration should've just given you new skills, money for new attacks, and secret bosses instead of armour and materials.

So many of your tools are restricted. Oh boy, this is probably my biggest complaint. In God of War 3: You could launch most enemies, minotaurs and gorgons included. You could parry most enemies, like the statues. You could use grabs on at least the standard enemy all the time. And of course, any weapon could be used without restriction on any enemy. Meanwhile, in new God of War, all the cool shit like freezing, tripping, kicking, launching all mainly work on Human-sized enemies, Nightmares, and Tatzelwurm. You're not using most of that shit on Heavy Draugr, Viken, Revenants, and Wulvers. And then in Give me God of War, enemies can activate elite mode, and now none of that shit's gonna fly even with the normal enemies. And even on normal difficulty, these cool things aren't allowed on enemies of a higher level than you. God of War also has DmC: Devil may Cry style colour-coded enemies. Yeah, of all the things we could've taken from DmC, we decide to take the worst part of it from that game. At least in DmC, the colour-coded enemies aren't overly common, and are rarely applied to bosses sans Bob Barbas. Whereas in God of War... That's literally the final boss.

As for the story... Not really much to say about it. It was pretty good, but not amazing. Nothing I hadn't seen before, and done better. Yeah, Old God of War didn't have a great story either, but I wouldn't say it was really worth it, considering the gameplay.

Some other small complaints:
- Way too many walking sections
- Recalling the axe locks you into place
- The lock-on loses focus way too easily
- Kratos, I know you can dodge faster and farther than that.
- Cooldown timers. What happened to having to regain mana from fights to use magic?
- Text is too small

Ultimately, I think God of War's system still has potential, even after my rant. The animations are crunchy, there's a decent variety of attacks to pick from, and there's a nice amount of tech, even with those restrictions I mentioned. As it is though, it needs a lot of refinement. So I hope that the inevitable sequel will build on what we already have, let us go all in with the mechanics, and bring it up to par with its contemporaries.
 
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Violet

Alt account
Banned
Feb 7, 2019
3,263
dc
I really enjoy God of War, but I think that one's enjoyment of it is pretty dependent on your tolerance for the "AAA-ness" of it.

For me, the music, exploration, presentation, story, character, and hype ass moments made it a great experience for me, even when I found the RPG elements lacking or the combat repetitive.
 
May 25, 2019
6,028
London
It sounds like your issues with it basically boil down to the fact that it attempts to be a jack of all trades/mechanics instead of a master of one or two. It's not meant to be a super deep action RPG or a combat-intensive action game; its meant to be a story focused adventure game with some light RPG elements and enough combat to keep things interesting. Some people will bounce off that but its a formula that appeals to a wide subset of the audience.
 

HylianSeven

Shin Megami TC - Community Resetter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,068
I haven't played it so my perspective and opinion is limited, but what the OP outlines are exactly the reasons it looked pretty unappealing to me. No disrespect to the people that enjoyed it, but it didn't look like it was for me. It looked more like it was trying to be an action game with a Resident Evil 4 camera, which didn't sound great to me. Things like PlatinumGames are more my thing.
 

sheaaaa

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,556
Nah the camera was completely fine for combat. It's an element of combat, just like RE4's tank controls were an element of that games combat, and everything is designed around it. You learning how to keep the enemies in your sight and having the spatial awareness to track enemies off screen is a vital part of the combat system. It's just going for a different thing altogether from the previous games in the series and succeeding wildly.

Saying the game's attempts to help you with this prove the camera is bad is really stupid criticism.
 

commish

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,274
User warned: thread whining
I feel like I am time traveling to 2018. I look forward to OP's "BotW is overrated" thread.
 

Jawbreaker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,411
New York City
Combat feels incredibly satisfying, and it has great visual feedback. The axe throw mechanic is a stroke of genius.

You do raise some valid complaints, though.
 
OP
OP
Firmament1

Firmament1

Member
Aug 15, 2019
1,288
Nah the camera was completely fine for combat. It's an element of combat, just like RE4's tank controls were an element of that games combat, and everything is designed around it. You learning how to keep the enemies in your sight and having the spatial awareness to track enemies off screen is a vital part of the combat system. It's just going for a different thing altogether from the previous games in the series and succeeding wildly.

Saying the game's attempts to help you with this prove the camera is bad is really stupid criticism.
Keeping enemies in your sight is already a part of other games like DMC, Ninja Gaiden, and Dark Souls.

If the game was really about visual awareness, wouldn't it make more sense for me to be able to see the enemies tells more easily, instead of having to rely on an arrow?
 
Sep 14, 2019
623
Ah, yes. You don't like thing! Why do other people like thing? Other people are wrong.
"DISCLAIMER: I'm not trying to say that my opinion is fact... I don't even know why I have to say this, but it seems that I have to these days. Also, please ignore the title. I came up with it before I made the post itself, and forgot to change it."

Literally the first sentences.
 

Omnistalgic

self-requested temp ban
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,973
NJ
I feel like I am time traveling to 2018. I look forward to OP's "BotW is overrated" thread.
Yep, so edgy...

Unless I feel something is complete garbage and everyone is praising it, I don't understand these posts. Camera was fine for me, Valkyrie battles were just as fun as stuff from DMCV or Souls games. Dunno what was limiting about the abilities either, they are essential in some of the Valkyrie battles.

Just disagree with almost every point.
 

Deleted member 1589

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,576
Because it's fun. A lot of people had fun with the game. There are plenty of people who loved it.

It doesn't make your opinion wrong, but as it stands it's not for you.

Like I hated Borderlands 2. It didn't mean that the praise for the game is wrong.
 

Naga

Alt account
Banned
Aug 29, 2019
7,850
It's not going to end well for you OP (I agree, it's a great game in many aspects, but the combat isn't).
 

Puffy

Banned
Dec 15, 2017
3,585
People played the game, liked the game then praised the game. I can whip up a PowerPoint if you need.
 
Oct 27, 2017
39,148
The camera was perfect. The game was designed around it and it fit perfectly. Not sure why so many people struggle with this. I disabled the arrows and played it perfectly fine without any frustration and unfair deaths.

The RPG stuff can be debated but I am one of the people who feel it does add to the game and makes for plenty of variety.

As for the bosses, It had more that GOW1 and while it would have been better with more bosses, I get why we have this many of them (new engine that had to be developed alongside everything else). And no, the trolls are not meant to be bosses according to Cory, and they had to put the life bar similiar to bosses due to their length and size.

One part that I think was kind of bogus

Kratos never told Atreus about Calliope or Lysandra
Why would he when he is still struggling with raising him? I don't doubt he would do that when Atreus is older but Atreus doesn't need to know about this right now.
 
Oct 26, 2017
9,859
People are so defensive holy shit lol

GoW is my 2018 GOTY and some points are valid, it's not like everyone is trolling or it's a hot take.

Y'all need to chill lol
 

sheaaaa

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,556
Keeping enemies in your sight is already a part of other games like DMC, Ninja Gaiden, and Dark Souls.

If the game was really about visual awareness, wouldn't it make more sense for me to be able to see the enemies tells more easily, instead of having to rely on an arrow?

Obviously not, because the game is designed around you seeing only the field that you are seeing.

It's like complaining about a first person game giving you a radar to show you where enemies are around you - the combat is designed around that perspective. Being able to see enemies more clearly by zooming the camera way out defeats the purpose entirely.
 

pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,673
The Milky Way
I agree with many of your points, albeit most of them simply modern AAA gaming "features" that we could say affect most games these days, but none were enough to detract from my overall enjoyment of the game.

Sometimes a game is greater than the sum of its parts, and GOW 2018 was such a game. It wasn't perfect by any means, and I disliked the hub, backtracking and walk-and-talk (or row-and-talk) sections. But it was still an enjoyable romp, more enjoyable than most AAA single player games released in recent years.

And nothing is quite as satisfying as the axe recall, let's be honest. The sound, the controller vibration, it's all so beautifully perfected.
https://www.resetera.com/threads/god-of-war-4-i-just-beat-it-and-i-really-miss-the-old-gow.141440/

we had a hot take thread about it less than a day ago, not like it makes the idea that "god of war is a mediocre game" any better
Another one of these in the same week, huh.
At least the OP took the effort to put together a detailed analysis. The only hot takes are your responses to the OP.

Also it's pretty sad that it's impossible to have a sensible discussion about a game without the needlessly defensive responses. The game has sold incredibly well, it won an outstanding amount of GOTY awards. Nobody is taking that away, you can still rest easy at night. That said, there have been plenty of sensible discussions about (the other GOTY) RDR2's faults, so I'm struggling to understand why it's impossible to do the same with GOW?
 
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OP
OP
Firmament1

Firmament1

Member
Aug 15, 2019
1,288
Obviously not, because the game is designed around you seeing only the field that you are seeing.

It's like complaining about a first person game giving you a radar to show you where enemies are around you - the combat is designed around that perspective. Being able to see enemies more clearly by zooming the camera way out defeats the purpose entirely.
I'd like for you to explain further how it's designed around being shown only a small part of the field. As it is right now, I don't see any benefit in forcing you to have to only be able to look in a small area.
 

cakely

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,149
Chicago
"DISCLAIMER: I'm not trying to say that my opinion is fact... I don't even know why I have to say this, but it seems that I have to these days. Also, please ignore the title. I came up with it before I made the post itself, and forgot to change it."

Literally the first sentences.

Yeah, it's his opinion that he doesn't like thing. Obviously.

"I seriously do not understand why God of War 2018 is so highly praised." is the topic.


Edit your topic if you don't want people to respond to it.
 

jroc74

Member
Oct 27, 2017
28,995
It's ok OP, there's some games I don't understand why they are so loved.

I just wanna talk about where you say it's a safe game.

If it was a new IP, I could agree. It being God of War? Sorry I don't agree it's safe. It's a departure from what made God of War....God of War. While still being God of War.

To pull that off was amazing.
 

Cactuar

Banned
Nov 30, 2018
5,878
I don't understand why the Popeyes chicken sandwich is so highly praised. I was confused by this for many moons, I traveled the world in search of an answer.

When I was in Tibet, running low on my resources and at wits' end, I had an epiphany after consulting the Dalai Llama: Not everyone has to like everything.
 

Deleted member 3017

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,653
Not that I disagree with you OP, but your thread title is dangerously close to "God of War is overrated", which is the type of statement that instantly kills 90% of meaningful discussion.

Other than that, you've provided plenty of substance to back up your viewpoint, which I appreciate.
 
OP
OP
Firmament1

Firmament1

Member
Aug 15, 2019
1,288
The camera was perfect. The game was designed around it and it fit perfectly. Not sure why so many people struggle with this. I disabled the arrows and played it perfectly fine without any frustration and unfair deaths.

The RPG stuff can be debated but I am one of the people who feel it does add to the game and makes for plenty of variety.

As for the bosses, It had more that GOW1 and while it would have been better with more bosses, I get why we have this many of them (new engine that had to be developed alongside everything else). And no, the trolls are not meant to be bosses according to Cory, and they had to put the life bar similiar to bosses due to their length and size.

What about the game was designed around it? Mimir and Atreus shouting at you? The fact that enemies are made less aggressive when not in your FOV? Those sound more like the game being gimped in order to make the combat fit the camera.

Yeah, it's his opinion that he doesn't like thing. Obviously.

"I seriously do not understand why God of War 2018 is so highly praised." is the topic.



Edit your topic if you don't want people to respond to it.

"Also, please ignore the title. I came up with it before I made the post itself, and forgot to change it. " was the third sentence. But I'll make it more prominent.
 

psynergyadept

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,639
You don't need to understand why OP; the game didn't vibe with you and that's okay; there's no games that will be universally loved.
 

Fredrik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,003
It needs more enemy variety than a bunch of color swaps.

Other than that it's close to perfection, in fact if it was 60fps I wouldn't even bother complaining about the enemy variety, it would be instant 10/10.
 

Inuhanyou

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,214
New Jersey
Because its a great game, and sets out to be a complete reversal of the original games in most ways, which it succeeds in doing for the most part.
 

TheIdiot

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,729
https://www.resetera.com/threads/god-of-war-4-i-just-beat-it-and-i-really-miss-the-old-gow.141440/

we already had a thread like this less than a day ago, not like it makes the idea that "god of war is a mediocre game" any better

It's not a "hot take" when it's an argument substantiated with several valid points.

Ah, yes. You don't like thing! Why do other people like thing? Other people are wrong.

Except the OP didn't say "you guys are wrong for liking this" but is rather asking why it's universally acclaimed when it has so many, in his opinion, flaws and shortcomings.
 

Viale

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,617
Keeping enemies in your sight is already a part of other games like DMC, Ninja Gaiden, and Dark Souls.

If the game was really about visual awareness, wouldn't it make more sense for me to be able to see the enemies tells more easily, instead of having to rely on an arrow?

Personally, the camera fucked me up loads more times in souls than it ever did in GoW. Might just be a preference thing in that case.
 

CloseTalker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,652
You don't have to like it. You laid out your points super clearly, and they're all valid, but it's not going to change any minds of people who have spent over a year loving the game. Not every game has to be for everyone, and luckily there's no shortage of character action games for you to play to get your fix.
 

Deleted member 8593

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
27,176
Camera was mega ass but the combat still works pretty well most of the time. Sure, it's no Devil May Cry or Bayonetta but neither was the original. I prefer this direction even if it requires tweaking. Conceptually, the Leviathan Axe is more interesting than anything the old games had.

Biggest issue for me was taking a Naughty Dog style story and making it roughly 5-7h longer than it had to be but alas...
 
Oct 27, 2017
39,148
What about the game was designed around it? Mimir and Atreus shouting at you? The fact that enemies are made less aggressive when not in your FOV? Those sound more like the game being gimped in order to make the combat fit the camera.
Ever played RE4?

The game had a very similiar design there. You listen to the enemies and their SFX to know where they are and when they attack. Head or Boy aren't the only thing that help you. Sound does.

It is game design, just because NG or DMC do it differently doesn't mean it is gimped. The challenge is knowing your surroundings and making use of that.
 

Trickster

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,533
You're not the only one. It's very well made, art design and presentation especially, but it also had some clear flaws that you point out. It also didn't feel very unique or innovative game when it comes to overall game design.

People are so defensive holy shit lol

GoW is my 2018 GOTY and some points are valid, it's not like everyone is trolling or it's a hot take.

Y'all need to chill lol

It's more or less impossible to have this kind of thread for certain games on era without a few dozen people pouring in to leave some kind of snarky response, regardless of how valid the point(s) being made in the OP are
 

Deleted member 49438

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 7, 2018
1,473
I can understand the gripe about enemy variety, but the rest I find to be either minor issues/gripes or I straight up disagree with you.

Keeping enemies in your sight is already a part of other games like DMC, Ninja Gaiden, and Dark Souls.

If the game was really about visual awareness, wouldn't it make more sense for me to be able to see the enemies tells more easily, instead of having to rely on an arrow?

If you lose track of an enemy & have to rely on the arrow to tell you where the attack is coming from, that's not an issue of the game, that's an issue of you losing track of the enemy. This just comes down to your preference if you prefer this or max draw distance to see huge sections of the map, but it's not a flaw of the game.

RPG elements didn't feel that tacked on to me. They weren't super deep, but they do give a nice sense of progression, especially farming some of the gear got to be pretty fun for me.

Feeling restricted with tools... Ummm... Idk it felt like there were a lot of different things you could unlock, just couldn't equip too many. I don't play the hard mode, so I won't comment on stuff being removed or no longer working.

I think your main issue comes from you thinking of this as an action game (at least based on your critiques), when in reality it was an Adventure game wrapped up like an Action-RPG. God of War excels based on the strength of a ton of other non-action elements, while still functioning as a good action game (if different from stuff like DMC, Souls, past God of War games, etc). Whether that be how the cinematography is done, the music, the set pieces, the voice acting, the environments, the story & themes... All of these are things the game excelled at, but you only focused on negatives in the gameplay during this critique. I think if you look at all of the other things around the game, you'll see where the praise comes from.