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I don't really find the myth of Batman appealing in the modern context
- Thread starter Deleted member 1656
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Over time I have started to question the whole concept of Batman, how relatively recent iterations try to be serious but kinda just makes the concept of a billionaire ninja terrorizing common thugs seem less plausible and also somewhat fascist.
At the same time, the Nolan movies were sort of about addressing this (taking Batman Year One as its jumping-off point). For starters, they weren't about Batman beating up common street thugs or even crazy rogues, but systems of corruption every bit as powerful as him -- the mob and the police and politicians under their control. Batman Begins even addresses the economic inequality leading to this -- Bruce's dad invested in affordable public transportation (and used it himself) during a recession. We just don't see much of Bruce himself investing in that kind of stuff.
In The Dark Knight, Nolan-Bruce makes it clear he has no intention of being Batman long-term (the unlimited story structure is one of the reasons I don't read cape comics). His endgame was eventually turning himself in and leaving the hopes of Gotham to someone who could clean up the city legit. Dent straight-up draws the comparison to Roman dictators who took absolute power and then relinquished it.
The economic themes come to the forefront again in Dark Knight Rises, in which Catwoman is basically a lower-class version of Batman. The whole thing ends with Bruce abandoning his name and billions and running off with Selina.
All three Nolan movies are about Batman and the people around him grappling with the fact that they're sort of teetering on the edge of fascism. The villains of all three movies are anarchists.
At the same time, the Nolan movies were sort of about addressing this (taking Batman Year One as its jumping-off point). For starters, they weren't about Batman beating up common street thugs or even crazy rogues, but systems of corruption every bit as powerful as him -- the mob and the police and politicians under their control. Batman Begins even addresses the economic inequality leading to this -- Bruce's dad invested in affordable public transportation (and used it himself) during a recession. We just don't see much of Bruce himself investing in that kind of stuff.
In The Dark Knight, Nolan-Bruce makes it clear he has no intention of being Batman long-term (the unlimited story structure is one of the reasons I don't read cape comics). His endgame was eventually turning himself in and leaving the hopes of Gotham to someone who could clean up the city legit. Dent straight-up draws the comparison to Roman dictators who took absolute power and then relinquished it.
The economic themes come to the forefront again in Dark Knight Rises, in which Catwoman is basically a lower-class version of Batman. The whole thing ends with Bruce abandoning his name and billions and running off with Selina.
All three Nolan movies are about Batman and the people around him grappling with the fact that they're sort of teetering on the edge of fascism. The villains of all three movies are anarchists.
Dick, Barbara, Tim and Terry are Batman's greatest accomplishments. The good those four alone will do throughout the course of their lives will be felt for generations to come.
Jury is still out on Jason and Damien.
Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal - 2011-07-13
Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal - 2011-07-13
Posts like these are why I always find these discussions to be in some capacity bad faith since yeah it's been established several times that as Bruce Wayne, he pumps fuckloads of money into the city to try and improve things, but it never lasts since something always happens like a disaster or crime which parlays into the point that the bulk if not all of his villains are crime bosses, murderous sociopaths, hitmen, corrupt politicians, cult leaders with Messianic complexes, etc.
The idea that he could just money Gotham's problems away feels INCREDIBLY naive to think that writers haven't though it before.
Depending on the story, she's also cool with the idea of human genocide to protect the environment or at very least very ok with killing lots of people over it.
Yes, this thread reminds me of the quote from KIll BIll about Superman, clearly made by people who know something about a character, but has never actually read it.
The latest Patriot Act episode about billionaires specifically mentions Batman at one point and the dude Hasan interviews says that Batman is a perfect example of how billionaires try to solve problems that they themselves helped create.
Watching Joker affirms that belief as much of what happens to Joker is due to the problems created by the rich.
Batman could effectively money away the problems. There's nothing that one man can do that a force of dedicated people cant. But the police are incompetent and corrupt in Gotham you say? Well make them competent by providing them these high tech gear and training that he uses as a lone wolf. And if they are corrupt due to greed then remove that incentive of greed by providing for them. Yes he essentially could money away the problem....Gotham is just one city, not the whole world. But then again there's be no Batman comics if he did that.
Watching Joker affirms that belief as much of what happens to Joker is due to the problems created by the rich.
Batman could effectively money away the problems. There's nothing that one man can do that a force of dedicated people cant. But the police are incompetent and corrupt in Gotham you say? Well make them competent by providing them these high tech gear and training that he uses as a lone wolf. And if they are corrupt due to greed then remove that incentive of greed by providing for them. Yes he essentially could money away the problem....Gotham is just one city, not the whole world. But then again there's be no Batman comics if he did that.
Greedy people don't stop being greedy when they get more money, that's the whole reason billionaires exist. The root cause of crime and corruption in Gotham is the same as anywhere else: capitalism - and if Batman became a Marxist fighting to abolish capitalism people would treat him as being more dangerous than the Joker.
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Joker's take on Thomas Wayne is not the status qou for that character.