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DanteMenethil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,058
I liked how at the time MGS3 got bashed for tank aiming but RE4 was the dream while also having tank aiming...
RE4 feature like 85% melee enemies. The rest have either super long projectile time that can even be shot at (crossbows, thrown axes) or have rampup time and warning (chaingun). This is much more forgiving for a stop and shot shooter than having hitscan enemies.
 
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KartuneDX

KartuneDX

Banned
Jan 12, 2018
2,381
played it for the first time recently and it's fantastic. Yes you are pretty immobile, yes the aiming is not that precise, but the game is balanced around that. It's just paced so incredibly well; it's so easy to spend an entire night playing it, and the game is long as hell.

I've recently played through a ton of Resident Evil games and honestly RE1 remake and RE4 are up there with RE2 remake as the best in the series.

Oh yeah? Do you recommend RE1 remake? I've kinda been postponing getting to the fixed corridor view games.
 

Trelova

Banned
Apr 8, 2020
814
i have no nostalgia for this game given i properly played it for the first time around 2016 or so but still consider it incredible, so i guess i'll chime in

The mood and atmosphere are very distinct. from the second you get out of the car or even in the cutscene before, everything has such an interesting coloration and effect to it that makes you feel like you're in a truly 'unsettling' place.

Then you have the game's ability to put dumb cheese humor, actiony stuff and horror elements together in a surprisingly well put-together way. all of it feels natural and 'right' in the world and makes it all enjoyable to experience, and that's a really tough balance to make. almost all other REs go for a similar effect but it doesn't quite work out. RE5 and RE6 being big offenders here.

The pace at which new content comes your way is very, very strong. it consistently hits you with brand new areas but also gives you just enough time that you feel comfortable and 'settled in' before you continue to new areas.

this specifically is a big deal for how memorable and strong a game ends up being. too slow of a pace kills the enjoyment of new areas as you feel them dragging, but too fast of a pace means you're just going from area to area without regard to how they're like.

compare the village section or the castle section etc from RE4 to almost any section in RE3R for example. the major difference in how the games are paced and area distribution makes areas in RE3R feel conjoined and melded together without as much of a unique identity.

Then you have the moment to moment gameplay. yes, the controls will feel dated but they're fine-tuned to meld with the gameplay, rather than simply following a 'standard'(as there was none at the time).

this means enemies are specifically catered around your limitations. this allows even slow, trudging zombies and unique types of enemies like the Regenerators to be genuine threats, and additionally keep with the horror aspect of the game. going too hard on 'fast-moving' enemies can make them feel more like action-game enemies, so this strikes a good balance of horror and action.

additionally, this creates tighter moment-to-moment gameplay. because of your inherent limitations, you have to be much more careful around enemies, be very wary of their locations compared to you, and be sure not to take on more than a couple at a time else risk being mauled, or focus on strategically using your physical abilities for crowd control.
this is all just a consequence of running and gunning not being a thing. it can make that big of a difference.

There's more as well like the NPCs unique charm(like how the Merchant is a favourite despite his very strange disposition, purely due to the game's established unique tone), the excellent balance and pace of getting new strong weapons and upgrading, the emphasis on collectibles that genuinely mean something and are organically findable by keeping an eye out, the near-invisible dynamic difficulty allowing weaker players and stronger players to both have genuinely satisfying experiences, and a lot more.

There's a ton to love about this game, and i don't believe it became a classic to be copied for generations by any mistake. even coming to it as barely even an RE fan over a decade after it came out, i found it to be something special.
 
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Feb 16, 2018
2,685
it came out around the time that half life 2 was considered to be the greatest shooter ever made (by critics / casual gamers)

it's not hard to see how it compares very favorably in that kind of landscape. the story & characters are more entertaining. there's so much more variety in weapons and enemies and encounters. the levels feature much more interesting environments and puzzles/objectives.

the controls suck, but the game offers a lot. compare it to the single player of other corridor shooters that came out later, and you'll find that it wasn't just hype. the overall structure of the levels & enemies & weapons held up pretty well
 

Carl2291

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,782
Had to be there at the time, like many other games considered to be the greatest.

In 2005, it felt somewhat revolutionary. It was a completely fresh and unique take on an already established and popular franchise.
 

dskzero

Member
Oct 30, 2019
3,368
it was the first time Resident Evil (which made a lot of noise in the gaming community) was made accessible to the general population.

Resident Evil was a tough game to get into, besides being scary to a lot of people. They dragged it kicking and screaming into the action territory and voila, magic was made and people were made fans. I guess the over the shoulder view was made popular by it? I guess, PC games have had that before.
 
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KartuneDX

KartuneDX

Banned
Jan 12, 2018
2,381
Wow, I can't overstate how much i appreciate your responses. I'm this close to just starting a new save.
 

sonicmj1

Member
Oct 25, 2017
680
If RE4 was only known for perfecting the over-the-shoulder third-person camera, it'd still have earned a place in gaming history. And I think some posters have done a good job elaborating on what makes the combat system rewarding in itself, despite its limitations relative to other third-person shooters.

But what makes RE4 a classic to this day, at least to me, is how deeply it explores its mechanics through creative enemy and encounter design. Somehow, almost every single new encounter you enter is doing something new mechanically. Nothing is filling space. Even using a pretty limited enemy suite, the first act of the game keeps you on your toes with crowds, bear traps, dynamite trip wires, explosive carts, vertical heights, bottomless pits, and cover. As the game goes, you'll fight dangerous foes in open spaces at first, then be asked to manage them in tight quarters, or manage them with other threats. The game will allow you to develop a comfortable strategy, then introduce a new enemy or environment that makes that strategy impossible. It knows seeing foes at a distance is an enormous advantage, and so finds new ways to block your sightlines and turn the tables on you. It never sits still.

The only games that come to mind that share RE4's commitment to plumbing every inch of design space created by their mechanical systems are puzzle titles like Braid, Stephen's Sausage Roll, or Baba is You. The developers' commitment to that ethos makes the game feel surprising just about all the way through its surprisingly lengthy runtime.
 

Dec

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,534
Oh yeah? Do you recommend RE1 remake? I've kinda been postponing getting to the fixed corridor view games.

I definitely do. I haven't played the original releases of any of the first 3 games so the only fixed corridor view game I've played in the series is remake. You mention you like the puzzle/metroidvania aspect of the series and I think remake has probably the most of that. I don't think I fully understood that RE2 remake is really just a modernization of the early RE games. Remake feels like RE2 in all but gameplay.

I've been trying to play some of the really well regarded series that passed me by for whatever reason during this quarantine and I'm really glad Resident Evil was one of 'em.

Edit: Of the games I haven't played, Revelations, Zero and Code Veronica seem like the main ones I'm missing. Do you think Revelations is worth playing?
 

Mekanos

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,172
it was the first time Resident Evil (which made a lot of noise in the gaming community) was made accessible to the general population.

Resident Evil was a tough game to get into, besides being scary to a lot of people. They dragged it kicking and screaming into the action territory and voila, magic was made and people were made fans. I guess the over the shoulder view was made popular by it? I guess, PC games have had that before.

Resident Evil wasn't exactly a cult series before RE4 though. RE2 nearly sold 5 million in a single release. RE4 didn't even hit that between PS2 + GCN sales.
 

Mortemis

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,416
I'm loving this thread, it takes me back to when I first played it and was mind blown. This makes me want to play it again, and I probably will soon.
 

MeltedDreams

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,954
It was huge step up for action-adventure genre. Some of the beloved AAA series these days could be quite different without RE4 existing. Bruce Straley said ICO and RE4 were the games that inspired their team during TLoU development and Clickers are in because he wanted a dangerous enemy like chainsaw guy from RE4.

What i find mind-blowing is 15 years later RE4 still has more unique encounters and greater enemy variety than a lot of AAA games these days. Obviously comparing controls to some of the best shooters now is kinda unfair. Games evolve.
 
Dec 15, 2017
1,590
Kids like to shoot stuff and suplex zombies with super agent Leon. I played it during it's release... Felt like a bad joke for survival horror fans. To this day the genre never recovered.

Sadly it's one of the most influential games of all time.
 

Mistouze

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,431
It's basically the Citizen Kane of third person shooters. Without RE4, Gears of War/Uncharted/etc series just would not have been the same. It really felt like a game from the future at the time.

It's also a fun romp of an action game that throws fun set pieces at you at a nice rythm with cool nods to horror/action films.
 

dose

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,462
  • In 2005 it had production values that were through the roof, and it was probably the best looking console game ever made at that point.
  • It had this new thing called quick time events, where you could actually interact with the cutscenes (including the greatest knife fight in the history of everything).
New thing? Shenmue did quick time events 6 years earlier.
And yeh visually it looked good but you also had the likes of Silent Hill 3 already out at that point.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,894
ATL
RE4 was designed around the GameCube controller. People used to modern TPS games with dual analog stick controls will not immediately enjoy the depth of RE4's minute to minute gunplay and encounter designs. There's a ton of room for experimentation in the combat. Knife only runs are awesome to watch as well. Also, mercenaries mode in RE4 is almost as famous as the campaign.

RE4 is so content rich, self-aware, and expertly paced that I've repurchased it on just about every system it was rereleased on. It's my personal favorite game ever, and I haven't replayed a game as much as it.

Here's a decent video on what makes it so good.



Super Bunnyhop gives some good thoughts on RE4 as well, though this is supposed to mostly be a review of the 2014 PC version
 
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KartuneDX

KartuneDX

Banned
Jan 12, 2018
2,381
Of the games I haven't played, Revelations, Zero and Code Veronica seem like the main ones I'm missing. Do you think Revelations is worth playing?

Oh without a doubt. It takes place on a derelict cruise ship and is probably one of my favorite settings in games of all time.
 

Deleted member 2533

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,325
How third-person gunplay looked in RE4:

gif261kdd.gif


How third-person gunplay looked in every other game:

gifc9k77.gif
 

dskzero

Member
Oct 30, 2019
3,368
Resident Evil wasn't exactly a cult series before RE4 though. RE2 nearly sold 5 million in a single release. RE4 didn't even hit that between PS2 + GCN sales.
That doesn't mean it was easy to get into. They were slow, horror games that had laborious controls. That said I'm surprised by these numbers, but I guess the PSX install base was that huge and the GC wasn't.
 

Genio88

Banned
Jun 4, 2018
964
Of course you don't, you are playing the game now, if you played it when it was released on GameCube and PS2 you would likely have a different opinion, i loved this game at the time, but i could never play it again nowadays, it didn't age that well
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,016
It could come out today and it would still be one of the best games ever made, it has aged perfectly.

Back on the GameCube it was beyond mind-blowing.
 

dskzero

Member
Oct 30, 2019
3,368
Of course you don't, you are playing the game now, if you played it when it was released on GameCube and PS2 you would likely have a different opinion, i loved this game at the time, but i could never play it again nowadays, it didn't age that well
It could come out today and it would still be one of the best games ever made, it has aged perfectly.

Back on the GameCube it was beyond mind-blowing.

Come on lol
 

nikos

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,998
New York, NY
I still remember dropping the game as soon as I wasn't able to move and shoot simultaneously. Never gave it a second look. To each their own.
 

EVIL

Senior Concept Artist
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
2,783
I think a lot of praise has to do with the time it came out in. It was def a big step up in the resident evil genre!
 

VaporSnake

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,603
I liked how at the time MGS3 got bashed for tank aiming but RE4 was the dream while also having tank aiming...
I love mgs3 as much as anybody, but mgs3's gameplay was far, far clunkier than RE4's. You also have to remember that the original MGS3 didn't even have a third person camera, meaning enemies with guns would be shooting you from off screen constantly, making the comparison between the two kind of silly.
 
Apr 30, 2019
1,182
It's nonstop awesome from start to end. There's not a single segment of the game that feels slow or boring or pointless, and the campaign is pretty long too. Leon's a cool character, the setting and atmosphere draw you into the world, and the story, while wacky, is entertaining through and through with cheesy one liners and unique takes on common action movie cliches. Like when Salazar opens the trap door under Leon's feet but he catches himself with a grappling hook then shoots a bullet at the ear trumpet Salazar is listening into. That's fucking awesome.
 
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KartuneDX

KartuneDX

Banned
Jan 12, 2018
2,381
Also forgot to mention, the new control scheme in the current gen versions is trash. Changee it back to the game cube style. (Forgot which one it was called but you had to use the same analog stick as walking to aim when you hold the aim button and the face button is used to shoot).

This made SUCH a difference I'm actually surprised it's not default.
 

dunkzilla

alt account
Banned
Dec 13, 2018
4,762
It pretty much changed third person shooters. A lot of what they do now is based and built off what RE4 gave to the world.
 

CosmicGP

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,888
Huh. I now realize RE4 is the closest thing I have to the "you had to be there" reverence of OG FF7.

Played RE4 when it was only available on gamecube. Yeah it was mindblowing, that a game could make you feel like you were in an action movie. Of course it would feel dated if you played it for the first time now.
 
Mar 29, 2018
7,078
shooting gameplay though, what's up with that? Aiming is just not fun in this game. It kills me that there's no gyro on Switch either for one thing, and I know the Wii version is often held superior for IR aiming alone. It obviously takes getting used to, but even when it feels I have it fully grasped it just doesn't feel natural. I'm probably too conditioned by typical TPS controls, but I'm trying to understand if this something that's liked by people that love this game. So far my assumption is that it's acclaim is more so due to the jump from fixed camera angles to full third-person camera control.
Totally agreed on the controls. I've tried to get into RE4 like three times, but the weirdass clunky aiming is a dealbreaker.

I'm sorry but a supposed gaming masterpiece should meet a minimal standard of intuitive control, and RE4 does not.

I'll pick up a remake in a snap if it had normal controls. I like good games and I like to have fun. Standing rooted to the spot while my reticle swings wide of each enemy like a crazed hornet is not the ticket.
Mikami is a designer who thinks outside the box. He generally ignores tradition and "accepted" ways of doing things.

When you ask him to make a zombie game with good gun based combat, he doesn't immediately go to the staple controls of the TPS genre. Instead he thinks of the gameplay's risk and reward balance:

- They can't have zombies that move too quickly due to theme and technological restraints. So how can you increase risk for using your gun? Answer: you can't move while you aim. You want a clear shot, you have to put yourself at risk.
- the player can aim anywhere, essentially. So how do you stop them doing perfect headshots all the time? Answer(s): Enemies can block with their hands. And enemies can dodge. And some enemies get mixed up head-types. And some enemies have weak points elsewhere, or dangerous weapons in their hands. And Leon aims slowly to keep his hands steady.

In short: while the gameplay FEELS clunky, it is in fact CAREFULLY considered to be just so. There are tens of other factors and design decisions on top of what I list above.

Mikami COULD have given RE4 traditional shooter controls, but the overall design would have suffered, becoming a fraction as good with risk/reward and tautness fallen by the wayside. EVERYTHING about the gameplay is carefully, carefully considered to create tight and deep and responsive gameplay, which is mixed up every 30-60 minutes to keep you on your toes.

Part of the reason RE4 is regarded as a GOAT is the DEPTH of the gameplay, which is pretty hidden. There is actually a learning curve to the gameplay and you're early in that curve. I.e. it's possible to get through many encounters with 15+ enemies using only 5-6 bullets. You only really see this depth on second playthrough.

It's also a pretty big game with really clever encounters and enemy types later on. One of the final sequences in the last 3rd of the game is literally one of my favourite sequences in any game ever. (And RE4 isn't in my top 10 or anything.)
 
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spman2099

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,892
It is a very good game, but it hasn't aged quite as gracefully as some would have you believe.
 
Jun 18, 2018
1,100
How third-person gunplay looked in RE4:

gif261kdd.gif


How third-person gunplay looked in every other game:

gifc9k77.gif

Great post - it's easy to forget how dynamic RE4's combat actually is because you have to stand still to shoot. You have to move to stay alive (which can include diving through windows, jumping off roofs & more), you're up frequently close with enemies so there's always a strong sense of pressure, and the impacts and reactions are great.

RE4's combat is amazing!
 

dlauv

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,513
One of the best games of all time, alongside Tetris and DOOM. Finely tuned and still better than many of its contemporaries. They're only hurt by increased standards surrounding superficial elements of design: things that don't actually make a game better or worse, but are more in line with what we're used to now.

That said, the aiming was hard to get used to back then too, but it was intended to be a kind of bridge between 3rd person action shooting and Resident Evil (which had tank controls and turret aiming). Also, with the GameCube controller, it was easier to adjust (no one wants to use the c-stick for aiming, lack of buttons, big A button to shoot, etc.). The precision aiming (despite Leon's shaky hand, which is a "horror" mechanic) was incredible and the way you could utilize it to set up invincibility frames and splash damage in a pinch was fantastic. Nearly all enemies were melee to make up for standing in place. Enemies react to the shots better and more fluidly than any enemies in Resident Evil afterwards and still more fluidly than a lot of games - I think only Killzone 2/3 best it off the top of my head. The RPG mechanics had a pitch perfect breadth and depth to them to make replays really interesting - not too heavy as to get in the way of the action but not light enough to make any "gameplan" better than another. Also, I remember Xplay complementing it for making the escort missions fun.

Yes, if you could move and shoot it would kill the balance. The Wii version totally destroys the balance because of the improved ability to aim. A RE4make would be a fundamentally different game, but I think the frustration comes not from besmirching RE4's legacy so much as RE4 being good and hoping more interesting projects get the treatment. Also there's a bit of "forgone conclusion" sentiment from people disappointed with RE3make.

I will say that guns on the Gamecube had a different aiming balance to the other ports. I feel like all guns have a kind of universal feel now, whereas handling different guns before meant aiming around faster/slower. Like, in the GC version the TMP without the stock is easier to aim than the TMP with a stock, but recoil is increased. It's been changed to be easier ever since the PS2, with guns (and the knife) getting a buff and all getting fast aiming. However, you could aim with the d-pad in the Gamecube version if you were in a pinch, and there was a universal feel to the guns that was also a lot faster than stick.

The colors in the remaster have the whites turned to grey (fixed by turning the game's idea of "brightness" all the way up - it doesn't wash out colors either) and in the case of the colors, they've been browned for some reason. This was in the PS360 versions as well as the PC version. They fixed this with color filter 4 in the PC version, but I don't know about PS4/Switch. On Gamecube: this was the year the 360 was coming out and the game looked better than anything on the OG Xbox. I know the PS360 and PC versions are missing shaders and graphical quirks - I don't know if those were fixed on PS4/Switch.
 
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dskzero

Member
Oct 30, 2019
3,368
Huh. I now realize RE4 is the closest thing I have to the "you had to be there" reverence of OG FF7.

Played RE4 when it was only available on gamecube. Yeah it was mindblowing, that a game could make you feel like you were in an action movie. Of course it would feel dated if you played it for the first time now.

The "you had to be there" factor in gaming is gigantic. Examples: Spec ops: The Line. System Shock 2. Ecco the Dolphin.

Movie wise I think the only one to have that big ass factor is The Blair Witch Project.


This FOMO stuff really annoys me.

I've learned to live with it. I stopped playing the Tomb Raider series reboot despite watching people sing the praises, same as Assassin Creed. Nowadays I just play what I want and don't get caught up on the media and fan cries.

There are very few more satisfying things than playing a videogame you really wanted to play.
 

K Samedi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,990
I remember my friends dad who was 54 at the time play this game from start to finish without understanding any english and with pointer controls on Wii. The guy never gamed in his life but was absolutely immersed in the world. Its a really good video game.
 

Isayas

Banned
Jun 10, 2018
2,729
The "you had to be there" factor in gaming is gigantic. Examples: Spec ops: The Line. System Shock 2. Ecco the Dolphin.

Movie wise I think the only one to have that big ass factor is The Blair Witch Project.




I've learned to live with it. I stopped playing the Tomb Raider series reboot despite watching people sing the praises, same as Assassin Creed. Nowadays I just play what I want and don't get caught up on the media and fan cries.

There are very few more satisfying things than playing a videogame you really wanted to play.

Exactly. We are just going to like every critical acclaim games. Hell, they are people who like none of them.
 

Dan Thunder

Member
Nov 2, 2017
14,055
It's a 15 year old that not only revitalised the Resi series it helped redefine survival horror.

Are there 'better' modern games? Yes. But that's applicable to so many titles we call classics. If you were to play the likes of Goldeneye, MGS 1, GTA 3, Doom for the first time today you'd probably think they were mediocre at best.

If you didn't play it at the time it's hard to describe what a step forward the title was but you only need to look at the difference between Resi 3 & 4 to see it was a huge leap.
 

Rendering...

Member
Oct 30, 2017
19,089
Totally agreed on the controls. I've tried to get into RE4 like three times, but the weirdass clunky aiming is a dealbreaker.

I'm sorry but a supposed gaming masterpiece should meet a minimal standard of intuitive control, and RE4 does not.

I'll pick up a remake in a snap if it had normal controls. I like good games and I like to have fun. Standing rooted to the spot while my reticle swings wide of each enemy like a crazed hornet is not the ticket.
 

DixieDean82

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,837
I enjoyed it on the PS2 but I played on GamePass this year and yikes. Not being able to move when shooting had not aged well at all.
 

Brix

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,681
One of the best action games ever. It's not my favorite resident evil game (probably 4th) but it still holds up. It still has some of the best boss fights in history with great level design. The village opening is still one of the best RE franchise moments.

Damn I wanna buy the pc port now and play it on steam with mods :D
 

dunkzilla

alt account
Banned
Dec 13, 2018
4,762
The "you had to be there" factor in gaming is gigantic. Examples: Spec ops: The Line. System Shock 2. Ecco the Dolphin.

Movie wise I think the only one to have that big ass factor is The Blair Witch Project.




I've learned to live with it. I stopped playing the Tomb Raider series reboot despite watching people sing the praises, same as Assassin Creed. Nowadays I just play what I want and don't get caught up on the media and fan cries.

There are very few more satisfying things than playing a videogame you really wanted to play.
Yeah it's funny watching people say that RE4's controls are "clunky". When it released they were anything but clunky. It was pretty much a whole new, more open way to play TPS's. It being the first of that style means there's been 15 years of iteration and improvement of that control scheme. It means despite it being a revolutionary game, playing it now you miss that feeling of it being brand new and only Resident Evil.