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brain_stew

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,731
Yeah, unfortunately HDR just isn't good on this tv. Maybe if your room is pitch black, but even then. I would just recommend turning HDR off

You absolutely do not want to be using an IPS panel without full array local dimming in a pitch black room. Black levels on all IPS panels are completely attrocious it is the worst consumer display technology for black levels.

Stick to SDR and setup eye searingly bright bias lighting is the best advice I can give. Anything else is going to bring attention to the glowing bright "black" levels.
 

brain_stew

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,731
I haven't seen any game yet, where I would want to use HDR instead SDR. I own LG C9 and it's color calibrated. The TV itself is awesome and pure blacks are really nice. Also, HDR works much better on movies.

Try Crackdown 3, Tetris Effect Connected, Gears 5 and Halo 4 and see if that changes for opinion.
 

Pottuvoi

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,065
Again: the main reason for this is because you're probably watching SDR way out of spec.
I don't think many people would struggle to see the benefit of HDR if they were comparing a calibrated SDR image to HDR.
But TVs now have the option to display SDR far brighter and more vivid than it was ever intended to look, which can outshine the HDR image that is forced to be displayed in a more accurate way by default.

Calibrated SDR on the left, calibrated HDR on the right:
madmax-highlight-larg7cjon.jpg


Both images have a similar brightness, but HDR has a more natural color palette and an extended dynamic range.
Note how the sky in SDR washes out to a flat gray area (limited dynamic range) while the sky in HDR has the sun and lens flare stand out as much brighter objects against it.
The sun might be 100 nits against a 90 nits sky in SDR, but it could be 1000 nits against a 90 nits sky on the HDR display - and it would stand out a lot more when viewed in person.

SDR out-of-spec on the left, vs calibrated HDR:
madmax-2-largem1k0n.jpg


SDR is bright, vivid, and unnatural.
Instead of using the extra brightness to extend the dynamic range, the flat gray sky is now extremely bright. Instead of 90 nits as intended, the sky might be pushed to 450 nits.
There's no extra detail - the sun still barely stands out against the sky due to the limited dynamic range, but it's bright.
This.

Additionally on OLED the larger the bright areas the dimmer they will become. (Additionally automatic brightness limiter will dim it bit more after a while..)
So increasing average brightness to that uncalibrated SDR level is not recommended as it will kill most HDR highlights on decently bright scenes.
 
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deathsaber

Member
Nov 2, 2017
3,099
One other thing is the games/content themselves. I'm using mid rangeTCL, far from the best but not worst either.

Most all Sony first party looks great in HDR (Spiderman, Horizon, Days Gone, TLOU2, GOW Demons Souls remake, Ghosts of Tsushima), Assassin's Creed Odyssey and Origins, Battlefront 2, Gears 5, Forza series, were all magnificent.

Other things look like ass (Monster Hunter, Assassin's Creed Valhalla is sketchy to me, but I suspect it's art style is meant to be gloomy, but it's just tough to my eyes next to the visual brilliance of Odyssey), pretty much all HDR on Disney Plus looks way too dark...

Again some will say it's the tv (and maybe it is in some cases), but why are some things freaking amazing in HDR and others aren't? All about the implementation I'd wager.
 

ekim

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,405
I had the same issue with my Samsung TV although it supports HDR10, all HDR content was really dark. (Netflix etc)
Turned out there was a global economy mode active which dims the screen A LOT. After turning this off, everything is how it should look.
 

Negotiator117

Banned
Jul 3, 2020
1,713
I have no idea what I'm doing when it comes to HDR setting on the PS5. Every time HDR is on for most of, it makes my games look darker than usual or as if the whole screen is dim. How exactly does it work and what can I do to fix it besides turning it off? I've tried it with FFXIV and KH: MoM and both look darker than they should and it kinda hurts my eyes. I THINK Demon's Souls looks alright but I can't tell. Some parts can look pretty dark. Pretty sure I had this problem with the PS4 too for the games that supported it. Is it my TV or am I adjusting the settings incorrectly?
TV look dim on other gaming hardware? Or just PS5?
 

Amnixia

▲ Legend ▲
The Fallen
Jan 25, 2018
10,427
I have no idea what I'm doing when it comes to HDR setting on the PS5. Every time HDR is on for most of, it makes my games look darker than usual or as if the whole screen is dim. How exactly does it work and what can I do to fix it besides turning it off? I've tried it with FFXIV and KH: MoM and both look darker than they should and it kinda hurts my eyes. I THINK Demon's Souls looks alright but I can't tell. Some parts can look pretty dark. Pretty sure I had this problem with the PS4 too for the games that supported it. Is it my TV or am I adjusting the settings incorrectly?

Both games don't support HDR, the PS5 does put SDR in a HDR container so try with HDR disabled (Deep Colour mode in the settings) and see if that makes a difference.

Dark Souls is a pretty dark game, soYMMV with HDR on that title.

Personally I think the best PS4 game with HDR was Horizon so you probably should test if it is available to you.
 

RayCharlizard

Member
Nov 2, 2017
2,973
I guess like $1,000 max lol. I don't think I've ever spent more than $600 on a TV actually. I only got this one because it seemed like a decent 4K option.
Assuming that's USD, $600-$100 is the range where good HDR really becomes accessible, I'd look at some of the sets here: https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/best/by-price/under-1000

Hisense 55H9G is $699 at Best Buy - https://www.bestbuy.com/site/hisens...-uhd-smart-android-tv/6403995.p?skuId=6403995
 
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Cyclonesweep

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
7,690
Man this thread is making me wonder if I should turn my HDR. I have a Samsung ru8000, I know the HDR brightness sucks but like...is it so bad that SDR would look better?
 

FootieGamer

Member
Nov 3, 2017
153
So, I may have figured out a solution since my other post.

* Change Picture Mode to Bright HDR instead of Game HDR

* Go into Picture Settings

* I raised Brightness from 50 to 55, which I think helped a lot, YMMV

* Make sure Backlight and Contrast are at 100 each

* I use Color Temperature: Normal, but I think some people prefer other settings

* Very important: change Game Mode to ON.

For some reason, it seems that the Game HDR setting is what is making everything look dark/grey. According to the brief googling I did, it seems that a TV patch within the last month or so may be the reason why it isn't looking quite right.

Good luck! Spider-Man Remastered's colors really pop now. I'm going through all my other games that have HDR now and so far, it's much better.

Thank you for this! I tried these settings on my Hisense TV (which is either the same panel as the TCL or made by the same company), and it looks so much better with HDR now.

Edit: Ehh but then tried Rocket League and it looks bad again. I'll probably just stick to keeping it turned off!
 
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LiK

Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,108
Oh, you have your brightness turned up to 80, that's probably why. I kept mine at 50. However, there is a vast difference in brightness between HDR Standard and HDR Game with all settings exactly the same for each. It's a weird behind the scenes thing LG did which is really stupid.

My mistake, I checked and my Brightness on Game Mode is 50 as well. I have OLED and Contrast at 100. I think it's plenty bright for me.
 

AndrewDean84

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,595
Fontana, California
My budget 65" 4k HDR vizio does HDR poorly, but has an incredible 4k image.

Once I got over the mental block that because my tv has HDR, it must be used, the better off I was.
 

Landy828

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,418
Clemson, SC
I have no idea what I'm doing when it comes to HDR setting on the PS5. Every time HDR is on for most of, it makes my games look darker than usual or as if the whole screen is dim. How exactly does it work and what can I do to fix it besides turning it off? I've tried it with FFXIV and KH: MoM and both look darker than they should and it kinda hurts my eyes. I THINK Demon's Souls looks alright but I can't tell. Some parts can look pretty dark. Pretty sure I had this problem with the PS4 too for the games that supported it. Is it my TV or am I adjusting the settings incorrectly?

Make sure "motion smoothing" is OFF. There was an image setting like that on my TV that was on by default that literally kept HDR from working properly.

Turn off ANY extra settings outside of HDR. Set your HDR/Dolby Vision mode to "bright/cool"
 

AgeEighty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,424
I have a 2016 LG OLED (C6) and it supports Dolby Vision. Are you sure yours doesn't? I thought all 2016 LG OLEDs did. I watch Dolby Vision on Netflix, Disney Plus and 4k blurays.

www.lg.com

LG 65 inch LG OLED TV - CURVED 4K UHD - C6T | LG Australia

Get more information on the LG OLED65C6T. Click for pictures, reviews, and tech specs for the LG 65 inch LG OLED TV - CURVED 4K UHD - C6T

I was off by a year; it's the 2015 model I've got.

 

nanskee

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 31, 2017
5,071
Samsung KS8000, the difference is pretty big on Demon's souls but for Forza horizon it wasn't too big of a difference for me. Astro bot also looked sublime
 
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KingK

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,857
I have a 2019 TCL 4 Series 55"

I'm not sure what I'm doing either lol. It's been giving me crazy anxiety since I got the PS5.

I have it set to "Bright HDR" with the Color Temperature set to "Normal" (instead of Cool), and that seems to be working out best so far. But yeah, at first everything seemed really dark and washed out, while UI text would be really bright and hard to see (especially in Miles Morales while snowing). It still seems too dark, but it's better with those settings, and I play in a basement so it's usually a dark room.

Last night, I tried testing Ghost of Tsushima with HDR On vs. Off. I honestly didn't notice a huge difference either way for the most part, but HDR did seem to pretty significantly improve the way the grass and vegetation look in the moonlight. So I think I'll leave it on for now.

OTOH, Wipeout HD still looks super washed out compared to my old 1080p Samsung in the bedroom. Idk, I really wish this stuff wasn't so damn convoluted. Like, part of the reason I like console gaming over PC is to avoid all these complicated settings and details lol.
 

EvilBoris

Prophet of Truth - HDTVtest
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
16,686
I'd probably just turn it off. The Tv probably won't give you a great few of benefit generally, and the benefits that can be had are likely to behave strangely due to how the TV is setup and how consoles behave.

The only reason your TV will accept an HDR signal at all is because 4K Bku Ray discs ALWAYS* are HDR and you wouldn't even be able to play them if they didn't accept it.
 
OP
OP
Astral

Astral

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
28,115
Assuming that's USD, $600-$100 is the range where good HDR really becomes accessible, I'd look at some of the sets here: https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/best/by-price/under-1000

Hisense 55H9G is $699 at Best Buy - https://www.bestbuy.com/site/hisens...-uhd-smart-android-tv/6403995.p?skuId=6403995
Super late on this but from that link, would you recommend the Hisense or the Roku? From the sound of it, both have similar HDR performance but the Roku actually has an 120Hz refresh rate (Hisense apparently doesn't accept 120Hz signals) which would be interesting to try out.
 

Pinku

Member
Dec 21, 2017
357
I use IFS expert (Bright room) for gaming. Don't know if that makes the input lag much worse but it looks much better than the HDR Game mode. Standard is way to saturated.

I have a OLED B7 from 2017.
 

RayCharlizard

Member
Nov 2, 2017
2,973
Super late on this but from that link, would you recommend the Hisense or the Roku? From the sound of it, both have similar HDR performance but the Roku actually has an 120Hz refresh rate (Hisense apparently doesn't accept 120Hz signals) which would be interesting to try out.
RTings says this on the TCL's review page: "The Hisense H9G is much better than the TCL 6 Series/R635 2020. The Hisense has a better local dimming feature, handles reflections much better, has a quicker response time, and has a lower input lag. However, the TCL displays a wider color gamut and has better built-in speakers." So, by going with the TCL you'd be sacrificing better picture quality for 120 Hz output which is still fairly rare and all of the TVs in your budget would be limited to 1080p anyway. Considering 99% of the content you're going to use on the TV is going to be 60 Hz or less, I wouldn't make that trade off.
 
OP
OP
Astral

Astral

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
28,115
RTings says this on the TCL's review page: "The Hisense H9G is much better than the TCL 6 Series/R635 2020. The Hisense has a better local dimming feature, handles reflections much better, has a quicker response time, and has a lower input lag. However, the TCL displays a wider color gamut and has better built-in speakers." So, by going with the TCL you'd be sacrificing better picture quality for 120 Hz output which is still fairly rare and all of the TVs in your budget would be limited to 1080p anyway. Considering 99% of the content you're going to use on the TV is going to be 60 Hz or less, I wouldn't make that trade off.

Thanks. I'll consider it. I haven't had my current TV for more than 3 years I believe. I wouldn't really know what to do with it at the moment. My wallet also got obliterated by Christmas shopping so I should probably just stick with what I have.
 

Afrikan

Member
Oct 28, 2017
17,000
Can't believe TV Manufacturers are still allowed to get away with selling 8bit panels, while splattering HDR lables all over their boxes.
 

Edge

A King's Landing
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,012
Celle, Germany
Read you mentioned FF XIV, that at least is not on you OP, FF XIV looks awful on PS5, it really does looks kinda dim, even with the piss HDR filter deactivated.

And for SDR games you should always have that deactivated it RUINS every single SDR game, it's insane how much it changes the colors.
 

Afrikan

Member
Oct 28, 2017
17,000
Thanks. I'll consider it. I haven't had my current TV for more than 3 years I believe. I wouldn't really know what to do with it at the moment. My wallet also got obliterated by Christmas shopping so I should probably just stick with what I have.

Well the good thing for you is Ray Tracing will still look fine on your TV.

As well as other 4K 60fps games.
 

The Shape

Member
Nov 7, 2017
5,027
Brazil
I have a similar LG that peaks at 300 nits. After two years using it with HDR I just gave up, it's now worth it, everything looks better in SDR.

With PS5 I just disabled it at the system level.
 

Kordelle

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,612
www.avforums.com

Samsung Global Dimming Game Mode Fix

So I got a new 50MU6120 and I've been annoyed straight off the bat by global dimming that can't be disabled. I just figured it out if anyone wants to know how. So people say you are stuck using movie mode and having horrible input lag just to disable it. The trick is to get into the service...



A few things you should take note.

1. You will need a 3rd party or an older Samsung remote control to do this. The smart remote that came with the Q60T will not work due to the lack of buttons.

2. For Q60T series, instead of highlighting Advanced and pressing 0000 as shown in the guide above. You should highlight Advanced and hold Volume Up for 5 seconds instead.

3. Entering the service menu will reset all of your picture settings for all sources. You may want to take note of your current picture settings (Contrast, brightness, etc) before doing this. I also highly recommend taking photos of the service menu before you change any settings and safekeep it, in case you need to change back the values.

4. Any software update done on the TV will revert the PWM values back to its factory settings, for this reason I recommend that you disable auto system update in the TV settings. The Q60T has been out for several months and the software is pretty stable already IMHO.

Sounds tedious but its worth it. I changed the values once and never touched it again since then.

What this PWM setting does is that it will fix the issue where by the entire picture will auto dim itself when the scene is very dim / dark. Not sure if you ever noticed it but you can check YouTube for several examples.
I finally did that on my Q70R and the blooming subtitles are gone, yay

But I agree that HDR is way too dark in many cases, my Q70R even has local dimming, but the brightness difference to SDR is huge.
 

Ego

Banned
Dec 6, 2020
128
And for SDR games you should always have that deactivated it RUINS every single SDR game, it's insane how much it changes the colors.

Do you have your settings correct?
PS5 auto HDR works perfectly fine with all PS4 games I've played so far. Same goes for my friends.
 

bes.gen

Member
Nov 24, 2017
3,354
I finally did that on my Q70R and the blooming subtitles are gone, yay

But I agree that HDR is way too dark in many cases, my Q70R even has local dimming, but the brightness difference to SDR is huge.
hey were you able to do this with q70r remote, what remote do you use for this?
hdr on my q70r is dim too, but only on game mode, both on ps5 and series x, movie mode is ok but i lose latency. sdr is ok too.its just game mode hdr.
weird and frustrating stuff, and seems an issue across all samsung qleds? and here i see its an issue on lg too?!
 

Edge

A King's Landing
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,012
Celle, Germany
Do you have your settings correct?
PS5 auto HDR works perfectly fine with all PS4 games I've played so far. Same goes for my friends.

There no PS5 auto HDR!!! Oh God, please tell me you aren't thinking what I think you're thinking.

The PS5 doesn't add any HDR to SDR games, it's just a " HDR container" that doesn't do anything to SDR games, with the exception of making them look awful.

It actually reduces the color and overall look massively.

Playing Genshin with system HDR activated and then without looks like day and night. And many people confirmed this to me.
With this container it looks so gray and colorless and even slightly unsharp like looking through actual milk glass.
Then deactivating it system wide is a real eye opener. Suddenly someone activated the color switch and the game finally pops like it should be and looks crystal clear and sharp and fantastic.
 

Ego

Banned
Dec 6, 2020
128
The PS5 doesn't add any HDR to SDR games, it's just a " HDR container" that doesn't do anything to SDR games

That's basically what I'm saying. It doesn't do anything with the PS4 games. I cross-checked Mirrors Edge Catalyst, Killzone SF, TLG, Driveclub etc with it. Looks exactly the same. On my TV, as well as my buddies TV. Hence I suggest to check your settings.
 

Psyrgery

Member
Nov 7, 2017
1,745
hey were you able to do this with q70r remote, what remote do you use for this?
hdr on my q70r is dim too, but only on game mode, both on ps5 and series x, movie mode is ok but i lose latency. sdr is ok too.its just game mode hdr.
weird and frustrating stuff, and seems an issue across all samsung qleds? and here i see its an issue on lg too?!

To increase overal brightness on my Q9FN I activate all sorts of "fake picture enhancer" settings suchs as Contrast enhancer to the max, brighness 4/5 and local dimming to high. Contrast enhancer messes the colour accuracy (which I try to fix once it's activated, but I dont usually care because when I game I preffer the wow factor rather than colour accuracy). But the results are night and day on game mode in regards to overall brightness. In Cyberpunk 2077 some dawns or signs are so bright I have to squint lol
 

bes.gen

Member
Nov 24, 2017
3,354
To increase overal brightness on my Q9FN I activate all sorts of "fake picture enhancer" settings suchs as Contrast enhancer to the max, brighness 4/5 and local dimming to high. Contrast enhancer messes the colour accuracy (which I try to fix once it's activated, but I dont usually care because when I game I preffer the wow factor rather than colour accuracy). But the results are night and day on game mode in regards to overall brightness. In Cyberpunk 2077 some dawns or signs are so bright I have to squint lol

doing all those things plus disabling eco mode etc. too.
there is still big difference between game mode hdr and movie mode hdr, its like im hitting an invisible limit at game mode.

that service menu post seems relevant, ill try that or will disable hdr at console level.
game mode at sdr looks better at this point.
 

Kordelle

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,612
doing all those things plus disabling eco mode etc. too.
there is still big difference between game mode hdr and movie mode hdr, its like im hitting an invisible limit at game mode.

that service menu post seems relevant, ill try that or will disable hdr at console level.
game mode at sdr looks better at this point.
I read somewhere that enabling intelligent mode brightness would help
I didn't test that myself because intelligent mode seemed to always reset my picture settings.
 

bes.gen

Member
Nov 24, 2017
3,354
I read somewhere that enabling intelligent mode brightness would help
I didn't test that myself because intelligent mode seemed to always reset my picture settings.

hmm, this might be something to try as im pretty sure i set that off too. description sounded like it will make things even dimmer at dark environment but who knows with these tvs.
thanks.
 

Macross

Member
Nov 5, 2017
694
USA
Had an interesting issue pop up with my Sony 900H last night. I was quicks tarting AC: Val on my PS5 and it warned me that at the resolution I was playing at it wouldn't support HDR. I check the Playstation settings and it is telling me my TV supports HDR, but not at 4k, which is not correct. Took a little bit to figure out, but apparently the HDMI port I was using wouldn't output 4k HDR. Once I moved the PS5 to HDMI 2, it then allowed me to switch the port to the enhanced mode and everything worked correctly again. No idea why this happened or if it was new or simply hadn't told me before now. Either way AC: Val looked noticeably richer in color and depth.
 

EvilBoris

Prophet of Truth - HDTVtest
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
16,686
Had an interesting issue pop up with my Sony 900H last night. I was quicks tarting AC: Val on my PS5 and it warned me that at the resolution I was playing at it wouldn't support HDR. I check the Playstation settings and it is telling me my TV supports HDR, but not at 4k, which is not correct. Took a little bit to figure out, but apparently the HDMI port I was using wouldn't output 4k HDR. Once I moved the PS5 to HDMI 2, it then allowed me to switch the port to the enhanced mode and everything worked correctly again. No idea why this happened or if it was new or simply hadn't told me before now. Either way AC: Val looked noticeably richer in color and depth.
Are you using the cable that came with the PS5?
 

KORNdog

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
8,001
I honestly didn't understand what HDR was even supposed to look like or do or why it was raved about...until I upgraded my TV...the HDR on my old Philips just wasn't really doing a good job and it just gave a bad impression of HDR.
 

New Donker

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,358
Samsung KS8000, the difference is pretty big on Demon's souls but for Forza horizon it wasn't too big of a difference for me. Astro bot also looked sublime

Also a KS8000 owner and games look great in hdr (unless the hdr is broken like in Cyberpunk).
I'm curious, when adjusting the HDR settings on the PS5, did you make it so the suns were barely visible, or did you take the advice of the video posted earlier and set them so they were invisible? I set mine to barely visible and things look great.