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I dare you to name a cooler anime than Cowboy Bebop
- Thread starter Morlas
- Start date
counterpoint: the madoka magica movie is a fantastic middle finger to all the fans who wanted a happy ending out of madoka magica.
It's from a show called Nichijou. It's legitimately hilarious and very charming.
Actually, now that you mention it, how many people really were on both shows. I strongly associate the two because Shinichiro Watanabe was the director of both, but I really haven't dived in enough to know if the general production stuff was actually made of mostly the same people or not. I know it was I think the first show by the newly formed Manglobe, but I really don't know if they all branched off from Sunrise off of Cowboy Bebop.
As an example of someone who didn't carryover, the lead writer of Bebop left to do Wolf's Rain with Studio Bones. As did the character designer.
So we might be attributing a little too much all to Shinichiro, assuming that he carries everyone he works with along to whatever he works on.
I think most of the people that worked in Sunrise on Cowboy bebop left to form BONES afterwards. Not sure about Manglobe.
But yeah, AFAIK this is why a lot of people consider Bebop to be the first show BONES worked on, albeit while still being under Sunrise.
being film noir helps with bebop a lot. i think americans and europeans recognize that genre as cool, which is a heavy assist in overlooking the fact that it's animated and from japan. the music, mood, and aesthetic that all comes from that is instantly recognizable by westerners, which gives it a leg up on other shows like samurai champloo. and good luck trying to convince anyone that isn't already a true believer that hellsing ultimate or black lagoon or jojo is worth watching, let alone 'cool'.
for what it's worth, i've gone through anime phases in my life, and bebop was in that first one when i was still discovering the genre (from 1998-2005 or so). so it definitely had a major impact there. but unlike other shows from the era like tenchi muyo, 08th ms team, and trigun - shows i greatly enjoyed - there's some level of effort in bebop's worldbuilding that just isn't there in other shows. the same can be said for something like avatar the last airbender and why it stands heads and shoulders above other american animated shows like kipo and the age of the wonderbeasts, the dragon prince, or sym-bionic titan.
for what it's worth, i've gone through anime phases in my life, and bebop was in that first one when i was still discovering the genre (from 1998-2005 or so). so it definitely had a major impact there. but unlike other shows from the era like tenchi muyo, 08th ms team, and trigun - shows i greatly enjoyed - there's some level of effort in bebop's worldbuilding that just isn't there in other shows. the same can be said for something like avatar the last airbender and why it stands heads and shoulders above other american animated shows like kipo and the age of the wonderbeasts, the dragon prince, or sym-bionic titan.
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Very interesting. I didn't know it was quite that much of an exodus. Reminds me of how people consider Gurren Lagann to be the real first Studio Trigger show and Castle of Cagliostro+Nausicaa as really Ghibli, even if the rights to the latter have been indisputably Ghibli's for years and years so it's not as much of a stretch.
Just here to say that the ending of Speak Like a Child is one of the greatest moments in television history.
If smoking cigarettes and being apathetic = cool, then sure.
I watched Cowboy Bebop for the first time earlier this year, and I found it to be vastly overrated. Jupiter Jazz 1 & 2 were the only episodes I thought were really good, while the rest ranged from "ok that was pretty fun" to "this is surprisingly boring." For a show that routinely gets named in every "what's the best anime of all time" thread, I was left wondering what everyone saw in it. It was not a compelling story at all.
Great soundtrack though.
I watched Cowboy Bebop for the first time earlier this year, and I found it to be vastly overrated. Jupiter Jazz 1 & 2 were the only episodes I thought were really good, while the rest ranged from "ok that was pretty fun" to "this is surprisingly boring." For a show that routinely gets named in every "what's the best anime of all time" thread, I was left wondering what everyone saw in it. It was not a compelling story at all.
Great soundtrack though.
This is the most ironic follow-up post I have ever seen.
Read or Die is pretty darn cool in regards to action, music, characters and overall world-building/story.
Wait somehow I had missed that subpar spatula actually said SAO before going in his rant. That alone should be enough to tell he's trolling.
This.
Currently rewatching Cowboy Bebop now and I can appreciate it on another level just for the vibes it gives off. Aside from Samurai, the next closest would be Ghost in the Shell, though i remember that being a bit boring at times.
The folk here trying to pass Hellsing off as cool aren't fooling anyone. Hellsing is just edgy, and not even in the cool way. Berserk is cool edgy. Hellsing is just Mall Goth cool.
The animation and choreography in Utena are amazing. While there is an entire arch that is filler and I dont think it lands the ending as well as it could have I would say it's at least as good as Cowboy Bebop and I love Bebop.
I feel like the only person in the world who doesn't find this gif or scene funny.
Is this a serious question? Cowboy Bebop is the definition of niche compared to Naruto.
Folks not saying Champloo I think are missing the point.
It's not about the characters, really.
It's the whole aesthetic, from animation style to music to interstitials, to yes, even the cliches themselves.
Cowboy Bebop is the greatest and coolest because of its very very particular mashup of tone, genre, etc. The only thing to do better with this sort of complete aesthetic from broad influence is Champloo.
Anything else I can think of is too self referential to anime itself in it's tone and aesthetic to qualify as properly, wide-rangingly, cool.
It's not about the characters, really.
It's the whole aesthetic, from animation style to music to interstitials, to yes, even the cliches themselves.
Cowboy Bebop is the greatest and coolest because of its very very particular mashup of tone, genre, etc. The only thing to do better with this sort of complete aesthetic from broad influence is Champloo.
Anything else I can think of is too self referential to anime itself in it's tone and aesthetic to qualify as properly, wide-rangingly, cool.
The Black Rose arc is not filler, it's got a ton of great character stuff, especially for the supporting cast.
Nichijou has much funnier scenes. That one just became the most iconic.
Totally.
What I meant is it doesn't really have anything to do with the main plot of the anime itself.
And it's also something that doesn't appear in the manga except for a single issue written after the series is over.
The character work and the "therapy" sessions were so cool.
Yeah for real, and it hints at
the darker sacrificial nature of the magic
an inversion of Utena herself in that he blindly tries to protect his Rose Bride but falls into a trap because he's too obsessed with his nostalgia and can't move on into the future.
Just because no one except Akip and Anthy know about the events that occurred afterwards, doesn't mean it's filler. Everyone subconsciously keeps the development they made and it was a vital step in building Utena' strength in preparation for the final arc.
Just because no one except Akip and Anthy know about the events that occurred afterwards, doesn't mean it's filler. Everyone subconsciously keeps the development they made and it was a vital step in building Utena' strength in preparation for the final arc.
The manga lacking the Black Rose arc and Nanami is the number one reason it stands so far below the anime's story IMO at least.
OP, I would have to agree with you. Cowboy Bebop tells an tale of actually being cool. But it's coolness isn't an good thing. Spike's coolness actually lost the one thing that he needed, an family. He thought it would be cool being around dangerous lost causes like Vicious and Julia. It ultimately got him killed. Cowboy Bebop resonates with western audiences because our society ramanticize tragic stories and characters.
I'm glad to see you liked it, but I think you may have missed how it connects. Like I said above
it basically is a look into how easily each of the seemingly helpless side characters can be manipulated into the dueling game, foreshadowing how the entire thing from start to finish is just a game of chess with Akio controlling all the pieces.
More relevant thematically however is that Mikage is like a dark mirror for Utena, driven by his obsession with the past just like she is until the end, as until then she was protecting Anthy in part just because she wanted to be like Dios the prince, just chasing after his memory rather than really seeing the reality of the situation and working to truly save Anthy.
Mikage is similarly obsessed with the past, to the point that he falls right into the trap Akio and Anthy set for him. The whole Black Rose arc and the sacrifice of the 100 boys was yet another way that Akio and Anthy vampirically sustain their power over the school and what fuels the magic of the dueling arena, all a play to reach the power of Dios again.
Mikage is a look into what could happen to Utena if she's not careful, what would happen to her if she didn't see reality like she did just before the final duel. IMO at least, it's completely integral to the story.
Just like how the movie is not a total reboot but actually a continuation from the show in which Touga and Anthy work together to swap out Utena' place as the spirit of the prince with Touga so that she can live in the real world with Anthy. Touga sacrifices his life for their love, because he loves Utena enough to be able to do that, just like Utena was able to at the end of the show because of her love for Anthy. Plus it also ties up the loose ends of the love triangle Utena had with Anthy and Touga, with her clearly having affection foe him in the movie but letting him go to be with Anthy.
More relevant thematically however is that Mikage is like a dark mirror for Utena, driven by his obsession with the past just like she is until the end, as until then she was protecting Anthy in part just because she wanted to be like Dios the prince, just chasing after his memory rather than really seeing the reality of the situation and working to truly save Anthy.
Mikage is similarly obsessed with the past, to the point that he falls right into the trap Akio and Anthy set for him. The whole Black Rose arc and the sacrifice of the 100 boys was yet another way that Akio and Anthy vampirically sustain their power over the school and what fuels the magic of the dueling arena, all a play to reach the power of Dios again.
Mikage is a look into what could happen to Utena if she's not careful, what would happen to her if she didn't see reality like she did just before the final duel. IMO at least, it's completely integral to the story.
Just like how the movie is not a total reboot but actually a continuation from the show in which Touga and Anthy work together to swap out Utena' place as the spirit of the prince with Touga so that she can live in the real world with Anthy. Touga sacrifices his life for their love, because he loves Utena enough to be able to do that, just like Utena was able to at the end of the show because of her love for Anthy. Plus it also ties up the loose ends of the love triangle Utena had with Anthy and Touga, with her clearly having affection foe him in the movie but letting him go to be with Anthy.
Sorry, went on a bit of a tangent there but thought since I was laying out my thoughts on the Black Rose arc I might as well say what I think of the movie, which a lot of people also overlook the relevance of.
This is the closest anyone's actually come to successfully answering the OP.
You know maybe it's time to re-watch the Black Rose Saga because it's been a while.
I agree with you in regards to the movie though.
Nice! I'm glad I was able to inspire a re-watch! 😊 I feel like watching it isolated from the rest might miss out on some of the ways the arc is reflected and called back to in the third arc (like the
photo scene just before the shadow girls' play in ep34 calling to mind Mikage's gallery and his obsession in preserving memories of happier times
Oh and another connection of the Black Rose arc to everything else is how in the movie
the "therapy" elevator is inverted and used to create a positive revelation that brings forth forgotten love rather than buried hate. I like to see that as the forgotten spirit of Mikage playing a small role in getting back at Akio by helping Utena break out (she's also in a timeless state/world of illusion just like he was in the Black Rose arc, yet another way Mikage is a reflection of Utena).
It's really a brilliant show, and to steer this whole tangent back to the topic at hand, it's not as strictly cool as Bebop, but I do think it has even more symbolic depth.
Baccano's cool, just wish the out of order presentation really did anything more for the story than a chronological one would. Maybe they could have kept it hopping around all the time but just toned it down a bit. It doesn't work as well without binging it all because there are so many moving parts.
Can't speak for Jojo yet but Ergo Proxy definitely was cool. It suffered a bit from seeming like the writers were as unsure of where they were going as the characters though. Definitely an interesting cyberpunk narrative to compare to NieR Automata though, for the similar themes they both portray about
post-human robots living in a desolate world, struggling with their purpose in a world without their creators/gods, set to the task of purifying the world they destroyed. The humans actually do come back in Ergo Proxy, but in both a lot off the philosophy is about what the point of life is without god, which if I recall correctly is why they cloned the proxy's to try to make their own.
A little bit like Eva in that way too.
