I am surprised by how many people aren't afriad of COVID, but are definitely very afraid of the vaccine

[Border]

This is probably just me venting because I don't want to get into arguments with "friends" on social media, but here we go:

After months of posts from folks about how we shouldn't "live in fear", that the pandemic is all overblown, that the virus is "just like the flu", I now how to endure a long series of posts from the very same people who think that the vaccine is dangerous, not properly tested, and/or results in all kinds of debilitating side-effects. All kinds of "I'm not putting that shit in my body" rhetoric from people that regularly smoke, drink, or buy cocaine from some dude in a Camaro.

While I'm not saying that you shouldn't at least be a little skeptical of a vaccine that was developed so quickly and under such hurry and duress, it's crazy how much these people choose to amplify and believe fringe accounts of vaccines-gone-wrong. At the same time they completely discount the half-million Americans that died from the actual virus. "Oh I have read so many stories and links about people that got the vaccine and then just a few days later they were in the hospital or even dead!" Well okay, but did you just ignore the many thousands of links and stories about the thousands that have died from the actual virus itself? Whatever happened to not "living in fear"? I am at a loss to explain the cognitive dissonance here.

I find myself slightly wary of the vaccine, but at the same time it's just a game of odds -- I think it's far more likely that I might contract COVID and suffer adverse consequences than it is that I will get the vaccine and have horrible side-effects. Therefore the vaccine is probably the way to go, especially if it gets me back to living a more normal life (whereas just stubbornly refusing to wear a mask or take precautions really doesn't get you anywhere).

Do you try to talk to, argue against, or otherwise reason with vaccine skeptics? I've abstained partially because I just tend to avoid confrontation or conflict. Mostly I refuse to engage since I know that for every dumb-dumb that refuses to get vaccinated, there's a deserving and appreciative person that will get their dose that much sooner. At some point though these people will have to be confronted, because if virus is allowed to propagate and proliferate amongst the un-inoculated, the more likely it is that it will mutate into a strain that the vaccine does not protect against.

 

[Unicorn]

Because they don't believe covid is real, but believe the government is evil (they can be).

 

[spam musubi]

There isn't anything you or I could say to these people that could change their minds.

 

[cupcakeunicorn]

People are stupid and terrible at risk analysis, yes.

 

[MinerArcaniner]

I'm not surprised by it at all, and I hate it.

 

[Metanoia Prime]

Because they think the gubernment has nefarious intentions with the vaccine. It's all misdirection, man! Look deeper! Etc.

Or the best one, "follow the paper trail!" (to which they can't point you to at all).

 

[MadraptorMan]

I just hope there aren't enough people like that to make herd immunity impossible.

 

[construct]

being able to say no to the vaccine has the illusion of being in control of something

 

[Cenauru]

People are stupid and think the government needs an excuse to try and kill us

 

[mieumieu]

A lot of them will change their minds once they see people in their social circle vaccinated and have no major issues.
The rest are lost causes tho.

 

[TeenageFBI]

Because they think the gubernment has nefarious intentions with the vaccine. It's all misdirection, man! Look deeper! Etc.

Or the best one, "follow the paper trail!" (to which they can't point you to at all).

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I found this article useful for understanding how this new conspiracy shit takes hold so easily: https://medium.com/curiouserinstitute/a-game-designers-analysis-of-qanon-580972548be5

The article is about Q but the same principles apply. It explains the "do the research" bullshit very well.

 

[ClivePwned]

All kinds of "I'm not putting that shit in my body" rhetoric from people that regularly smoke, drink, or buy cocaine from some dude in a Camaro.

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this.

 

[CapNBritain]

It's because they are people that want to believe in the opposite of everything rational and morally correct, like Republicans. Are they republicans? COVID is serious and should be taken seriously, so they downplay it. Vaccines are the best way to handle the spread so of course they don't want to take it. They are just consistently, adamantly wrong and proud to be so.

 

[Border]

While it's one thing to try and avoid these arguments with people on Facebook/Twitter, I can't imagine how stressful and frustrating it must be to have parents or older relatives who refuse to get the vaccine.

I asked a friend tonight if his mom had gotten vaccinated, and he said "No, she says all she needs to get is the flu vaccine since she thinks COVID is just a variant of the flu." I said that if that were my mom I would be fighting and arguing with her about it all the time. I'm really not sure how much energy and effort I would actually invest in such an endeavour, but I am infinitely glad that both my parents got their vaccination without any argument or coaxing.

 

[gozu]

Many people would flunk basic college science.

Many people live in a STRAIGHT UP MAGICAL harry potter-like world. I'm not fucking kidding or exaggerating.

They think covid tests are 100% accurate 100% of the time. They think wearing a mask around their neck is enough to ward the covid spirits.

They have no concept of how relatively small things are with respect to one another. Many think a mask would stop you from smelling a fart (smell "particles" are way smaller than a virus).

People don't understand marginal tax rates. They don't understand that you only get taxed higher on income that is above the tax bracket threshold. As a result they don't understand progressive taxes vs flat taxes.

People don't understand exponentials (or compound interest). Covid pandemic is a direct result of this, I am certain.

I found out today someone is pushing their mom, who is over 65 and in an at-risk group, to fly for 6 hours to see her and her child/SO. She will be eligible for the vaccine in a couple of months. She last saw her mom a year ago. That's it. Just a year.

This same person (rightly) criticized their cousin when said cousin gathered at a beach with their friends after taking the instant covid test.

Why are people like this? I dunno. It's not ideal. I tell you what.

 

[TheDarkKnight]

Outside the usual suspects the other factor is the vaccine is newer and this th bigger unions for people. People were seriously concerned about COVID in March when we didn't know if it automatically = death sentence or not. Or how contagious it was or what really spread it, etc

there will be some that never will come around but others by the time it's available will see there's no major fallout from it and get it

 

[RedOnePunch]

People nowadays seem to believe in everything but the truth that's right there in front of their eyes. It's so dangerous.

Outside the usual suspects the other factor is the vaccine is newer and this th bigger unions for people. People were seriously concerned about COVID in March when we didn't know if it automatically = death sentence or not. Or how contagious it was or what really spread it, etc

there will be some that never will come around but others by the time it's available will see there's no major fallout from it and get it

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I think the disinformation started after trump's disaster of a response failed and instead of taking responsibility, him and the right wing propaganda machine began downplaying the pandemic. I think the disinformation on traditional media and the internet has played a pretty significant role in people not taking it seriously. They're pretty good at sewing doubt, and it's a very powerful thing. Look at climate change.

ive had people tell me that deaths not related to Covid are being attributed to Covid and other crazy stuff.

 

[Messofanego]

While it's one thing to try and avoid these arguments with people on Facebook/Twitter, I can't imagine how stressful and frustrating it must be to have parents or older relatives who refuse to get the vaccine.

I asked a friend tonight if his mom had gotten vaccinated, and he said "No, she says all she needs to get is the flu vaccine since she thinks COVID is just a variant of the flu." I said that if that were my mom I would be fighting and arguing with her about it all the time. I'm really not sure how much energy and effort I would actually invest in such an endeavour, but I am infinitely glad that both my parents got their vaccination without any argument or coaxing.

Click to shrink...

Can't you cut these conspiracy people out from your social media? I don't follow anyone like that, so I never get to see it. Seems like a lot of stress to deal with such people.

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

I have a friend with covid right now. She says it is the sickest she has ever been. Her mother in law also died of it a few weeks ago. She still says she is unsure about getting a vaccine... I just can't with these fucking people.

 

[Zyrokai]

I'm not. This is just the American way at this point. Distrust truth more than fiction.

 

[Gwarm]

While I'm not saying that you shouldn't at least be a little skeptical of a vaccine that was developed so quickly and under such hurry and duress, it's crazy how much these people choose to amplify and believe fringe accounts of vaccines-gone-wrong.

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Maybe you should be saying this. These vaccines have been studied, trialed, and are widely seen as safe and effective. Don't give these people even an inch by saying "maybe" because they will run with it.

 

[Border]

Can't you cut these conspiracy people out from your social media? I don't follow anyone like that, so I never get to see it. Seems like a lot of stress to deal with such people.

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The example I gave was a real-life longtime friend whose mom refuses to get vaccinated -- not just another voice among the cacophony of voices on my social media feeds.

The larger problem I alluded to though is that while it's maybe possible to ban/mute these folks from my feeds, they will eventually become a problem if they allow the virus to continue to spread and mutate into something we are not equipped to handle. I can ban anti-vaxxers from my Facebook for my own peace of mind, but even that doesn't really solve the ultimate problem.

 

[Sectorseven]

Do the people who think covid is fake generally get along with people who think it was made by the Chinese government?

 

[Psamtik]

Vaccine skeptics aren't even the problem right now, with demand still well ahead of supply. For now, the vaccines are the hottest products on the market.

Some of them will never come around, of course, but enough will be won over by seeing their friends and families doing just fine post-vaccination to get us to 70%.

 

[jotun?]

COVID is organic, vaccine is processed

 

[Wein Cruz]

I honestly heard someone float the covid vaccine tracker conspiracy theory. Unsurprisingly they also thought The Man from 3036 was real lol.

The worst part about it is that there is nothing you can say to change their mind.

 

[nihilence]

I cringe everytime I see a department of health post on Facebook. Nearly all the replies are idiots shouting sheeple, everything is a lie and all the conspiracy that the vaccine is going to nuke your DNA.

It's sad and terrifying.

 

[TaySan]

My co workers were flipping out about the vaccine even though they all had Covid and went through it. All it takes is one bullshit article/hoax and these people will eat it up.

 

[Squarehard]

COVID is organic, vaccine is processed

Click to shrink...

Most of these kinds of people believe both are manufactured.

 

[linkboy]

I'm not.

I live in South Dakota, aka the idiot state, and these idiots here will believe anything they see of Facebook.

Critical thinking said bye-bye to these people a long time ago.

 

[Furiousone]

I took a poll of employees that report to me as the business is trying to setup an on-site vaccination clinic. 50% are willing to get the vaccine.

 

[Lakeside]

COVID is organic, vaccine is processed

Click to shrink...

Disregard, not worth it.

 

[Deleted member 2210]

I had a friend whose only reason was "I just don't trust it, it's not even that effective anyways" I haven't talked to them since.

People keep saying there has to be another way and keep pushing holistic bullshit onto me. Fuck that, I'm immunocompromised I'm taking the jab as soon as I get the call.

To be able to refuse the vaccine when you are of regular health is a luxury. And many people have never been frequently hospitalized and have no idea what it's like. If they catch it and it gets bad, they will learn real quick.

 

[Deleted member 8257]

OP, you should clarify that you're talking about US. There's governments out there where people are right to be suspicious if what they're saying. For example, Indian rightwing government is heavily fronting the Covaxin drug. There are questions unanswered on its efficacy but it is already doing vaccine drives

What is the controversy around Covaxin?
It all began when the regulator said the vaccine had been approved for "restricted use in emergency situations in public interest as an abundant precaution, in clinical trial mode, especially in the context of infection by mutant strains".

Experts wondered how a vaccine was cleared for emergency use by millions of vulnerable people when its trials were still underway.

Both the manufacturer and drug regulator say Covaxin is "safe and provides a robust immune response".

But the All India Drug Action Network said it was "baffled to understand the scientific logic" to approve "an incompletely studied vaccine". It said that there were "intense concerns arising from the absence of the efficacy data".

Bharat Biotech has defended the approval, saying Indian clinical trial laws allowed "accelerated" authorisation for use of drugs after the second phase of trials for "unmet medical needs of serious and life-threatening diseases in the country". It has promised to provide efficacy data for the vaccine by February.

Click to shrink...

 

[MobileSuitReactor]

I cringe everytime I see a department of health post on Facebook. Nearly all the replies are idiots shouting sheeple, everything is a lie and all the conspiracy that the vaccine is going to nuke your DNA.

It's sad and terrifying.

Click to shrink...

I joined a work related group (why I don't know) and boy is it terrible.

 

[Neo C.]

I took a poll of employees that report to me as the business is trying to setup an on-site vaccination clinic. 50% are willing to get the vaccine.

Click to shrink...

Same in my workplace. It will be difficult to go over 70%, I know too many who refuse to take the vaccine.

Also my government is hesitant to give the vaccinated ones some priviledges, and that's a bummer. We are way too considerate with the skeptics.

 

[Rockets]

They think the government is trying to do depopulation by giving us the vaccine lmao

It's funny because if the government really wanted to depopulate us they would've just not told us about masks and never made a vaccine and let COVID continue to kill us off

 

[super-famicom]

A lot of people lack critical thinking skills, empathy, and are very selfish.

 

[nitewulf]

People, in a general sense, are stupid. I.E. if you integrate the sum of a population, it would equate to stupidity. Masses are asses.

 

[Messofanego]

The example I gave was a real-life longtime friend whose mom refuses to get vaccinated -- not just another voice among the cacophony of voices on my social media feeds.

The larger problem I alluded to though is that while it's maybe possible to ban/mute these folks from my feeds, they will eventually become a problem if they allow the virus to continue to spread and mutate into something we are not equipped to handle. I can ban anti-vaxxers from my Facebook for my own peace of mind, but even that doesn't really solve the ultimate problem.

Click to shrink...

They are already a problem and they won't listen to reason, at least over the internet compared to real life conversations. They only change when it affects them personally or they face consequences such as being deplatformed, losing their job, losing friends, being cut out, etc. I don't know how close you are to this long time friend but with the severity of this pandemic, if I was in your position, I would see if their mother is willing to listen to reason or appeal to emotion on how severe this situation is. Otherwise, there's not much you can do other than take care of yourself.

 

[ajido]

COVID is organic, vaccine is processed

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LOL! Yeah, covid is "natural" and the vaccine is full of "chemicals". That's enough to get any idiot to be wary in this day and age.

OP: you don't have to see any of this. Life without social media is great. Best thing I've ever done for my mental health was delete my FB account.

My family has definite magical thinking tendencies. My dad thinks climate change is a hoax: actual text from yesterday he asked if the Commisar of Clinate would allow a little more global warming since it snowed where he lives this weekend. My sister and mom think that their stinky essential oils can cure my chronic illness and I should stop taking my medications because they're only making it worse. To my surprise and delight my parents have already taken their first vaccine doses and my sister says she'll get it ASAP. Even a broken clock is right twice a day, but I'm happy that they're not anti-vaxxers at least.

 

[BarryFishFinger]

While I'm not saying that you shouldn't at least be a little skeptical of a vaccine that was developed so quickly and under such hurry and duress,

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You don't even need to qualify your thinking with this. There is nothing out of the ordinary about how these vaccines have been created. They've become of vital global importance, they're well understood techniques and have basically had an unlimited budget thrown at them to speed things up.

 

[Deleted member 31873]

Guy at work was showing me a web page that supposedly lists people who've died after getting the vaccine. I asked him if he'd seen a web page that lists people who died after getting COVID.

 

[TheMadTitan]

Because the government wants to microchip them!

Even though they're carrying around cell phones all day and don't need to be microchipped.

 

[davepoobond]

Well think about it. No one wants to get COVID but everyone wants to get the vaccine. Pretty suspect.

 

[nelsonroyale]

Well, depends on what vulnerability group you are in. If you are not from a vulnerable group and not interacting daily with vulnerable relatives, stands to reason that you might want to wait a bit to see what side effects emerge. The Phizer vaccine I think it is a pretty new biotech, so side effects are still uncertain. With so many people taking the vaccine it is a massive clinical trial. Waiting a while to see how things pan out makes sense for young and strong people, where mortality rates are vanishing. On the other hand, obviously they need to avoid contact with their vulnerable relatives, unless those have been vaccinated. But I suppose if you are not in a vulnerable group you will have to wait anyway. Personally, I am happy enough to wait and see.

So yeah, I am happy to wait to see how things pan out. For instance, for how long are the vaccinations effective? When will people have to get another dose? One thing I hope is that they won't recommend annual vaccination. The drug companies will obviously love that, but that is going to be very fecking expensive for the health care system.

Edit: actually just read an article in Reuters which says the UK government already making noises about a booster in Autumn and then yearly vaccines.

 

[Wackamole]

Yeah it's weird, isn't it? Disinformation works extremely well.

 

[Prophet Steve]

Well, depends on what vulnerability group you are in. If you are not from a vulnerable group and not interacting daily with vulnerable relatives, stands to reason that you might want to wait a bit to see what side effects emerge. The Phizer vaccine I think it is a pretty new biotech, so side effects are still uncertain. With so many people taking the vaccine it is a massive clinical trial. Waiting a while to see how things pan out makes sense for young and strong people, where mortality rates are vanishing. On the other hand, obviously they need to avoid contact with their vulnerable relatives, unless those have been vaccinated. But I suppose if you are not in a vulnerable group you will have to wait anyway. Personally, I am happy enough to wait and see.

So yeah, I am happy to wait to see how things pan out. For instance, for how long are the vaccinations effective? When will people have to get another dose? One thing I hope is that they won't recommend annual vaccination. The drug companies will obviously love that, but that is going to be very fecking expensive for the health care system.

Edit: actually just read an article in Reuters which says the UK government already making noises about a booster in Autumn and then yearly vaccines.

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It does impact the spread of the virus and vaccinated people are not 100 percent protected. Also young people can still be heavily impacted even with a low mortality rate.

They have already gone through trials and there are no signs of any adverse significant side-effects.

It does not make sense for young and healhy people to wait out the vaccine for these reasons. There is still a great risk in having a lower vaccination rate in the public.

I am also planning on waiting as I feel vaccines should go to other countries first, but be aware that there is a risk in doing so.

 

[nelsonroyale]

It does impact the spread of the virus and vaccinated people are not 100 percent protected. Also young people can still be heavily impacted even with a low mortality rate.

They have already gone through trials and there are no signs of any adverse significant side-effects.

It does not make sense for young and healhy people to wait out the vaccine for these reasons. There is still a great risk in having a lower vaccination rate in the public.

I am also planning on waiting as I feel vaccines should go to other countries first, but be aware that there is a risk in doing so.

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The pfizer and the moderna vaccine are both pretty new biotech that hasn't really been used in other vaccines as far as I am aware, so the medium to long term effects aren't well characterised. The issue is if you vaccinate the vulnerable, which on balance is sensible, then they are not really at significant risk of contracting covid from those that may have it but may be healthy. There are many factors involved in giving the vaccine to everybody, including cost. I personally think that targetting the most vulnerable makes sense, and of course there are vulnerable across age groups as well. In terms of uncertainty, well that always exists. Some people who seem eminently healthy and fit, have adverse reactions to illnesses that couldn't be predicted. Since the probability is low though, you obviously shouldn't make widespread decisions on that basis.

I mean the conversation is pretty academic though, because if you are not in a vulnerable group you are going to have to wait for a while anyway, which from my perspective is all to the good.

The issue here in the UK, is that our health system is in a pretty shit state, hence why our infrastructure hasn't been really capable of taking a much more targetted approach. Plus our government fucked up early on.

And I agree with your comment with regards to other countries.

 

[Amalthea]

I feel like lots of people slowly become too stupid to survive.